Close this please.

Thevampirenight

Edit, After reading the comments and well this thread was posted in frustration. I see the point in the dependencies. I will try and use Minion.
If it helps performance then well its okay in my book even though its an inconvenience.
Since I see no point in this thread any longer. Wished we had the forum option to close threads on our own. Go ahead and close it please.

Sylvermynx

*SIGH* Libraries are what enable the functions of many addons. You have to have the libraries to actually keep the addons working.

If you don't want to download the libraries, then you won't be able to use the addons.

Thevampirenight

Sylvermynx wrote: »

*SIGH* Libraries are what enable the functions of many addons. You have to have the libraries to actually keep the addons working.

If you don't want to download the libraries, then you won't be able to use the addons.

Well here is the issue I have, these addons should have those libraries and there shouldn't have to be a requirement to have like ten addons just to use one addon.
Older Skyshards the one I have put back into place doesn't need me to go through this aggravation. Plus then getting that ui error that prevents me from even using my ui besides chat or even existing maps.
That is what I got from this.
CustomCompassPins
LibAddonMenu-2.0
LibGPS2
LibMapPing
LibMapPins-1.0
Have to have all that. But to get Lib Gps to work.
Have to have two more addons for even that.

kichwas

This is actually a feature, not a drawback.

Just download the dependency as well.

Unlike certain other games with addons where people package in the dependency... you don't end up with 5 addons here all using different versions of the same dependency, all loaded into memory, and at least one of them having some critical flaw that spikes up your lag but hasn't been updated since Disco was a thing...

If a dependency does fail to get updated... all the addons using it suffer that fate equally - and there's usually more pressure when 5 addon makers are bugging the dependency maker, than when 4 addons and a dependency have been updated, but addon #5 was made by someone who left the game.

Plus... I imagine it's less overlapping code for your system to be running multiple copies of - but could be wrong, it might actually load up 5 instances of it.

Thevampirenight

Then is there an addon that puts all these together that way I don't have to bother with it?
Just download everything required and have it work on that one addon?

Sylvermynx

kichwas wrote: »

This is actually a feature, not a drawback.

Just download the dependency as well.

Unlike certain other games with addons where people package in the dependency... you don't end up with 5 addons here all using different versions of the same dependency, all loaded into memory, and at least one of them having some critical flaw that spikes up your lag but hasn't been updated since Disco was a thing...

If a dependency does fail to get updated... all the addons using it suffer that fate equally - and there's usually more pressure when 5 addon makers are bugging the dependency maker, than when 4 addons and a dependency have been updated, but addon #5 was made by someone who left the game.

Plus... I imagine it's less overlapping code for your system to be running multiple copies of - but could be wrong, it might actually load up 5 instances of it.

AFAIK, the libraries, once loaded, are available to every addon which requires them. It's a very common situation these days, not like it's something.... unusual.... in software.

I've been using windows since 3.0 (yeah yeah, buggier than ANY anthill....) and the "library" system is a major improvement since back then (late 80's). Now, libraries are available on demand for things like game addons, instead of addon authors having to reinvent the wheel....

kichwas

Sylvermynx wrote: »

AFAIK, the libraries, once loaded, are available to every addon which requires them. It's a very common situation these days, not like it's something.... unusual.... in software.

Yeah that's what I was assuming. I was just wondering if by some chance they did not do it that way...

You could for example, have each addon load up an instantiation of all of it's dependencies, rather than loading the dependency itself and making calls to it... doing that... would be highly inefficient... but a developer could make that choice...

peacenote

This isn't something new; it's been how the add-ons work since about Murkmire.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/474898/drowning-in-libraries

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/490084/eso-addon-guide-installing-addons-minion-troubleshooting-recommendations

It's a little confusing at first if you've never encountered it before but it's pretty easy to manage once you figure out what's going on. Minion helps, too.

Sylvermynx

kichwas wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

AFAIK, the libraries, once loaded, are available to every addon which requires them. It's a very common situation these days, not like it's something.... unusual.... in software.

Yeah that's what I was assuming. I was just wondering if by some chance they did not do it that way...

You could for example, have each addon load up an instantiation of all of it's dependencies, rather than loading the dependency itself and making calls to it... doing that... would be highly inefficient... but a developer could make that choice...

Nah. The libraries install into the Addons folder, and the addons have xml calls to them in that folder.

eKsDee

Without libraries, addon creation and installation would be utter chaos. Every addon would have its own way of doing a particular thing, and none of those ways would be cross-compatible, at best meaning that addons can't interact with each other to provide extended functionality, or at worst meaning that having two or more addons that each implement the same functionality are outright not compatible with each other, causing conflicts and maybe even crashes when you try to use them together.

Minion could handle libraries more elegantly, especially during addon updates, but the libraries themselves are fine, and without them we'd all be worse off.

Thevampirenight

eKsDee wrote: »

Without libraries, addon creation and installation would be utter chaos. Every addon would have its own way of doing a particular thing, and none of those ways would be cross-compatible, at best meaning that addons can't interact with each other to provide extended functionality, or at worst meaning that having two or more addons that each implement the same functionality are outright not compatible with each other, causing conflicts and maybe even crashes when you try to use them together.

Minion could handle libraries more elegantly, especially during addon updates, but the libraries themselves are fine, and without them we'd all be worse off.

Its not the libraries that are the issue its that, I have to download them all independently and then have an addon that requires more dependencies that should have been included in the one addon. Then having it bug out once they are all installed into the point it breaks the Ui itself so the ui doesn't work. That is my issue.

kichwas

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Then is there an addon that puts all these together that way I don't have to bother with it?
Just download everything required and have it work on that one addon?

Yeah... basically this is why I use minion.

I open up my game and it says a dependency is missing, so I type the name of that into minion and it grabs it for me... and now minion just updates all of them for me.

Vevvev

This was done for the sake of making it easier on the players, the devs, and the addon authors. Why have 5 different versions of the same library when you can have a single one they all use? This streamlines the whole process and makes it easier for everyone. I recommend getting something like Minion so you can easily get all the dependencies for the addons you need.

kichwas

To illustrate the counter point. Over in a certain other MMO where the addons had their libraries bundled in... sloppy addon configuration allowed for a situation where each addon loaded in the library...

And one addon I had was up to date, but using a library that was extremely out of date... and the game was loading it over the newer versions because someone in there had misconfigured things... So in the end I had to get rid of that entire addon and find something which was actually from a prior expansion but not using that library...

So yeah... glad they do it this way here.

Sylvermynx

kichwas wrote: »

To illustrate the counter point. Over in a certain other MMO where the addons had their libraries bundled in... sloppy addon configuration allowed for a situation where each addon loaded in the library...

And one addon I had was up to date, but using a library that was extremely out of date... and the game was loading it over the newer versions because someone in there had misconfigured things... So in the end I had to get rid of that entire addon and find something which was actually from a prior expansion but not using that library...

So yeah... glad they do it this way here.

Yeah, been there done that lots of times over the years.

kichwas

Thevampirenight wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Minion could handle libraries more elegantly, especially during addon updates, but the libraries themselves are fine, and without them we'd all be worse off.

Its not the libraries that are the issue its that, I have to download them all independently and then have an addon that requires more dependencies that should have been included in the one addon.

I see... then your issue would actually be with Minion right?

As in, it should auto-detect the libraries you need and go and grab them for you? I think it does - sometimes... Not sure...
If so that means the addond authors maybe have a config somewhere that lets them tell Minion what to grab...

But I'd have to wipe my addon directory and then regrab my addons to test that.

That said I do NOT want addond to bundle in their libraries... see my last post... if they bundled in their libraries then what happens if one addon developer insists on bundling in an older version of the library... and your game loads that one over the other ones - breaking all your other addons...

"Single source of truth" works best - having the libraries be separated out.

Thevampirenight

I'll try minion but for right now I will use this out of date addon so IU can get all the overland skyshards I need I'm farming for them so I can have them for the new antiquties system that will require at least 30 skill points.

Sylvermynx

kichwas wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Minion could handle libraries more elegantly, especially during addon updates, but the libraries themselves are fine, and without them we'd all be worse off.

Its not the libraries that are the issue its that, I have to download them all independently and then have an addon that requires more dependencies that should have been included in the one addon.

I see... then your issue would actually be with Minion right?

As in, it should auto-detect the libraries you need and go and grab them for you? I think it does - sometimes... Not sure...
If so that means the addond authors maybe have a config somewhere that lets them tell Minion what to grab...

But I'd have to wipe my addon directory and then regrab my addons to test that.

That said I do NOT want addond to bundle in their libraries... see my last post... if they bundled in their libraries then what happens if one addon developer insists on bundling in an older version of the library... and your game loads that one over the other ones - breaking all your other addons...

"Single source of truth" works best - having the libraries be separated out.

Exactly. I don't mind downloading libs separately. But I do find that minion handles things very well (unlike nmm for skyrim.... *rolls eyes*) I think I've only had to download one lib in the last few months. That's more than acceptable.

Hurbster

The libraries you need are most often stated in the description in Minion. Once you have gotten them that should be it as Minion will update them as it would any mod.

Thevampirenight

Okay thank you everyone, once I get a chance I will try Minion.

Nanfoodle

Thevampirenight wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Without libraries, addon creation and installation would be utter chaos. Every addon would have its own way of doing a particular thing, and none of those ways would be cross-compatible, at best meaning that addons can't interact with each other to provide extended functionality, or at worst meaning that having two or more addons that each implement the same functionality are outright not compatible with each other, causing conflicts and maybe even crashes when you try to use them together.

Minion could handle libraries more elegantly, especially during addon updates, but the libraries themselves are fine, and without them we'd all be worse off.

Its not the libraries that are the issue its that, I have to download them all independently and then have an addon that requires more dependencies that should have been included in the one addon. Then having it bug out once they are all installed into the point it breaks the Ui itself so the ui doesn't work. That is my issue.

Don't think you get it. If each add on had to make and maintain its own library, add ons would bloat your system even more. When things change, you would now have to wait for each add ons to update their library. With the current system, add ons that have not been updated in years still work because the libraries are still getting updated by someone. If each add on needed it's own library, about 1/2 of the add ons would no longer function.

Hotdog_23

Console player, , wish we had the option to use add-ons.

daim

People are making addons which are free for you and here you are QQ'n because youre too lazy to learn how to use them. Nice attitude.

VaranisArano

I guess I'm just used to Skyrim modding, where its also very common to list "other required mods" that each mod depends on rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. You see it a lot with UI and body replacement mods. In part, that's because you do want to give credit to whoever did the work.

Charon_on_Vacation

daim wrote: »

People are making addons which are free for you and here you are QQ'n because youre too lazy to learn how to use them. Nice attitude.

especially considering the mod authors do write infos on that on their front page.
came back after a 2,5 year break, wanted to update my addons. took 5 seconds to read the info and act accordingly.
if that is too much work or to complicated, i don't know what to say.

Darkstorne

Thevampirenight wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Without libraries, addon creation and installation would be utter chaos. Every addon would have its own way of doing a particular thing, and none of those ways would be cross-compatible, at best meaning that addons can't interact with each other to provide extended functionality, or at worst meaning that having two or more addons that each implement the same functionality are outright not compatible with each other, causing conflicts and maybe even crashes when you try to use them together.

Minion could handle libraries more elegantly, especially during addon updates, but the libraries themselves are fine, and without them we'd all be worse off.

Its not the libraries that are the issue its that, I have to download them all independently and then have an addon that requires more dependencies that should have been included in the one addon. Then having it bug out once they are all installed into the point it breaks the Ui itself so the ui doesn't work. That is my issue.

Oh no. All those extra mouse clicks. What a difficult time in your first world life this must be.

If you read the description page for an addon it will tell you exactly which libraries you need. Spend those seconds reading and you'll find addon management as easy as the rest of us do.

Thevampirenight

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Without libraries, addon creation and installation would be utter chaos. Every addon would have its own way of doing a particular thing, and none of those ways would be cross-compatible, at best meaning that addons can't interact with each other to provide extended functionality, or at worst meaning that having two or more addons that each implement the same functionality are outright not compatible with each other, causing conflicts and maybe even crashes when you try to use them together.

Minion could handle libraries more elegantly, especially during addon updates, but the libraries themselves are fine, and without them we'd all be worse off.

Its not the libraries that are the issue its that, I have to download them all independently and then have an addon that requires more dependencies that should have been included in the one addon. Then having it bug out once they are all installed into the point it breaks the Ui itself so the ui doesn't work. That is my issue.

Don't think you get it. If each add on had to make and maintain its own library, add ons would bloat your system even more. When things change, you would now have to wait for each add ons to update their library. With the current system, add ons that have not been updated in years still work because the libraries are still getting updated by someone. If each add on needed it's own library, about 1/2 of the add ons would no longer function.

I understand the points people are making now. When I posted this thread eariler I was a bit flustered with the whole thing. But I will try minion and well just got finished up farming for the Skill Points I need for the antiquities system.
Its best not to have a bloated system and if it does improve performance then I'm for it even if its an inconvenience because Performance is one thing this game does need and if addons effect that with having copies of libraries then well it might be best to have the dependencies after all.

daemonios

Do you use Minion to manage your add-ons? You can click te add-on to read the description and usually they state any dependencies right there. If they don't, they usually do on the ESOUI website. Even if it's not there, you can check any missing dependencies from inside the game by going to the add-ons tab. You only have to install a dependency once if you use Minion, it's treated like any other add-on and kept up to date like one.

ZOS_Lunar

Greetings everyone,
As this thread has run its course and is no longer constructive, we are now going to close it. We always encourage sharing opinions, but we ask that they are respectfully stated when doing so. Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.