Drowning In Libraries!

Ashtaris

So I understand why add-on authors likes to use libraries. It saves time because you don't have to re-invent the wheel. Many of the functions you need for your add-on has already been done by someone else. But really, do we need like 10 to 15 libraries for some of these add-ons? For example, I couldn't load Awesome Guild Store after the Elsweyr update because it require 7 new libraries I didnt' have. So I have to go to Minion and download each library separately, one at a time, to get the add-on to work. Is there a better way to do this that I'm missing?

Could you possibly work with the Minion authors to have it so that Minion will check dependencies for the add-on and automatically download whatever missing libraries are needed? That would certainly make it much easier than it is now.

Don't get me wrong, I greatly appreciate the work all of you add-on authors do to make the PC experience more enjoyable, I'm just looking for a way to make it even more so

SirAndy

I still bundle all needed libraries with my AddOns.

In theory it's nice that ZOS allows us to reuse an already loaded library but it turns into a logistical nightmare if you have several AddOns that don't bundle their libraries and then you either have to get lucky that someone else did bundle the needed ones or you have to go and get them separately.

I like to have all my AddOns to be self-contained, anything 3rd party they need will always be included in the AddOn folder.
It's just much better that way ...

MasterLenman

It would be awesome if Minion had some kind of dependency management, so that it would donwload all libraries when you install an addon.

sketchni

I feel like it might violate some Library Licenses but bundling all libraries in one package might be helpful.

fgoron2000

I had a LIB issue that was resolved by an author today. In passing, he said something about an upcoming Minion v4 being able to automatically recognize dependencies & be able to install them when installing/updating addons.

Reverb

SirAndy wrote: »

I still bundle all needed libraries with my AddOns.

In theory it's nice that ZOS allows us to reuse an already loaded library but it turns into a logistical nightmare if you have several AddOns that don't bundle their libraries and then you either have to get lucky that someone else did bundle the needed ones or you have to go and get them separately.

I like to have all my AddOns to be self-contained, anything 3rd party they need will always be included in the AddOn folder.
It's just much better that way ...

You. I like you.

Baertram

It's just much better that way ...

No it isn't. It's just less complicated but not better as libraries in subfolders tend to be "Hidden" and if erros occur you need to check which of the files is the one making trouble.
Where a clean simple standalone library in the main AddOns folder is clearly the one to fix.
It wouldn't be a logistical nightmare if you would just stop to bundle them and all addons rely on 1 simple library folder, in the AddOns folder. 1 file, 1x filespace needed, 1 single point to check a and fix.LIke every other addon as well.
-> This was done from the beginning as ZOs got bugs in their dependencies and we must do it so the addons work. But this is not needed anymore and you should clean up the addons now.
But if you go on bundling the libs you will always have this problem and build your own nightmare.

Even the ingame addon manager of the game tells you what libs you need and you can easily download them. Other addons like Votans Addon List should be build into the base addon manager!!! @ZOS
It enables all dependencies if you click on an addon. This would be perfect if even used at the character login screen.

I know what you mean but the idea of libraries is not to inlcude and "copy" them 100 times. Then you could simply copy even the code out of the lib files and put it into your addon redundantly.

The current lack of automatic dependency installers is there, true. Minion v4 probably will have this and it would be great.

The benefit currently, having the libs non-bundled, is a way easier and clean addon update process. It takes less time then having to check each lib for an update manually, bundle them with your addons (if you got to maintain 1, well... But if you maintain 30+ this wil ltake hours of unneeded time!), build the zip fils, check everything is correct, etc.

Where on the other hand user only needs to do this "once" after a big patch and then is just able to update it via Minion in the future.

And bundling all libs in 1 package is the same nonsense like bundlign them with the addons. You'd need to update ALL libraries even if only 1 changed. Like you need to update your addon and increase the version, build a new zip, etc. even if ONLY 1 of the bundled library was changed. Whereas a standalone library will be updated and ALL addons using it will benefit directly without the need to update the addons too. So it's only 1x work for the users and then everything will be fine.

So just be calm and please support us so we can play more and invest more time to build and maintain the real addons instead of investing the time into nonsense updates. Remember: Addons are free and it's not about "I like you because you do it the way I have less work". It's about the whole construct of the addons and libs here. It's about the nice community I'm proud to game with. So I hope you'll understand and help us.

AlienSlof

Yes, the libraries have gone insane recently! Easy enough with Minion to track down, though I needed to do one manually this morning as according to Minion, it was already installed. Just needed the latest version.

We do need some kind of standardisation for all these, or like SirAndy, bundle in all the libraries the add-on needs.

mague

I slowly stop using those addons. Some worked and suddenly turned into dependency monsters.

We are talking a few kByte. Make addons selfcontaining again please or add libs into the zip.

blnchk

mague wrote: »

I slowly stop using those addons. Some worked and suddenly turned into dependency monsters.

We are talking a few kByte. Make addons selfcontaining again please or add libs into the zip.

Most dependencies aren't new, though. Libraries have always been utilised (as far as I know), but the work of putting them where they should be was done by addon authors. Now they've delegated that responsibility to users.

I agree that tracking them down can seem overwhelming, but in practice it really isn't, especially not with Minion. And this way you can easily keep them updated once installed, just like any "regular" addon.

Baertram

As you did not read my long post and will still go on to complain about a bit of work you need to do, just think about this:
Disable all addons and play without them. Afterwards think about the benefit you lost or even not and then think about installing the needed dependencies ONCE.

You tend to overreact as you might not understand the reason and the effort one needs to do this. And you don#t have a "1 click" solution like Minion anymore. But YES, you DO have. If you simply install all libraries once and then you are able to update them via Minion.

You can use the ingame addon Votans Addon List to automatically enable dependencies if you enable an addon.
You can even save the addons + libraries as profiles and load them via an addon profile addon.

But you rather like to just complain so much and long until the devs do what you want? Maybe they will just quit and not update any addon anymore because of all the wine here Who knows. But even then you go on whining that YOU got SO MUCH WORK to do to play the game with addons. It's starting to get me really pissed and annoyed. Sorry to say but go on like this please...

In the end we are all fine the way it's going now. It's simply one step you have to do, like blnhk described above. Just help and support us so we can use the time more effective instead of starting threads and post of wine over and over again. This is only fair for all of us.

josh.lackey_ESO

The main issue is that Minion does not automatically install dependencies. @sirinsidiator has promised this with Minion 4, and well as a detailed explanation about the Library changes in a recent blog post.

Standalone Lib installs is the proper way. They should not be bundled with every AddOn.

Isildra

I don’t care to lookup a few libraries via Minion. Took me 2 min yesterday, actually the refreshui loading screen was much longer.

I’m grateful for every updated Addon. So, thank you, @Baertram and all the other addon authors.
For your time and your effort and all the beautiful addons which makes my life so much easier!

Ashtaris

Baertram wrote: »

As you did not read my long post and will still go on to complain about a bit of work you need to do, just think about this:
Disable all addons and play without them. Afterwards think about the benefit you lost or even not and then think about installing the needed dependencies ONCE.

You tend to overreact as you might not understand the reason and the effort one needs to do this. And you don#t have a "1 click" solution like Minion anymore. But YES, you DO have. If you simply install all libraries once and then you are able to update them via Minion.

You can use the ingame addon Votans Addon List to automatically enable dependencies if you enable an addon.
You can even save the addons + libraries as profiles and load them via an addon profile addon.

But you rather like to just complain so much and long until the devs do what you want? Maybe they will just quit and not update any addon anymore because of all the wine here Who knows. But even then you go on whining that YOU got SO MUCH WORK to do to play the game with addons. It's starting to get me really pissed and annoyed. Sorry to say but go on like this please...

In the end we are all fine the way it's going now. It's simply one step you have to do, like blnhk described above. Just help and support us so we can use the time more effective instead of starting threads and post of wine over and over again. This is only fair for all of us.

As I posted at the beginning of this thread, we love the add-on’s and all the work you do to create them. All we are asking for is a easier solution to all the libraries that need to be installed now. So instead of both of us whining, lets come up with a solution, shall we? As I understand it, Minion 4 will offer a way to have the dependencies automatically downloaded and installed. If that’s true, then the problem is solved. If not, then lets come up with something that will make things a little easier of all of us.