Master Destro is WAY TOO STRONG

Yuke

Maulkin wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

Spectral Cloak:

This set now increases your damage done and reduces your damage taken by 10% for 2 seconds when dealing damage with Blade Cloak, rather than granting Major Protection for 3 seconds after casting it.
Reduced the Perfected version's Stamina Recovery to 103.

this is overpowered. not the masters staff. i really dont get how they make their numbers. a fokin free 10% dmg done +
10% dmg mitigation with 100% uptime.

5pieces sets have their 5piece bonus to grant about 5 to 7% dmg increase following the average budget. here, for 2pieces you have 10%+ AND 10%-. it's absurd even in pvp.

The 2 bolded bits don't reconcile. Unless every second skill you cast is Blade Cloak you won't have 100% uptime. And if you are casting Blade Cloak with every second GCD your damage will be negligible anyway

Every pbae tick of Cloak is refreshing the timer from what ive seen so far. 100% uptime is true as long as you are involved in a fight. Both DSA and BRP DWs are redicilously strong rightnow. Which pains me because i dont want to farm them (and dont have the people to farm them with).

To quote you then:

*** this *** im out.

good luck keeping away from eso man...i managed 26months (2x 6, 1x 14months) of ESO breaks since its release but i am sadly still coming back to this trashshow.

Rianai

Derra wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

i'll add that the buff only lasts 4sec, which is shorter than the DoT's duration, making it not this good. even if the spell power is a flat bonus while the weapon dmg on the masters bow is only "against a the target" (less healing, procs, whatever)

True, I’d actually like it more if it gave the lower magnitude (330) and longer duration (10s) to mirror the Master Bow. Casting Reach every 4s is weird in any DPS rotation, and casting Clench every 4s won’t even CC because immunity lasts longer.

IMO the old bonus was much more interesting though. It turned a single target DoT, AoE, or CC ability into something that could be used as a unique spammable. And the cost reduction made it a decent sustain tool. Simply adding a Perfected bonus would be enough to balance the set, it doesn’t need to become a Master Bow knockoff.

You dont get it with its great use in PvP I guess. The short duration is enough to enable nice window for burst damage and all classes using clench as cc actually work with delayed damage like blastbones, curse, spectral bow or shalks. You arent on the frontbar anyway all the time or on the offense, so if it drops off, it isnt that bad. A longer proc would be meaningless, since your burst window between buffing up and healing is pretty much as long as the buff.

Just that 2 of those classes run the risk of knocking the targets out of their burst.
Sorc doesn´t really want to run clench as a pure stun unless in duels where it entirely replaces streak and/or spammable aswell.
Which leaves it for just nb.

It´s somewhat underwhelming imo - mainly bc the base skill is just terrible.

It's not even that great for magblade, because it doesn't combo well with melee ults nor does it guarantee to land the bow proc.

brandonv516

Yes. More useful things for Sorcs! That's what we needed for sure.

TheInfernalRage

Ruder wrote: »

I mean 600 SPD (750 buffed) - this is WAY MORE than every other 5 piece set and it is on demand,
Let's compare this to Master Bow - 300 wpd and it cannot be buffed by multipliers.

400 spd (500 buffed) will be more suitable value, keep in mind that this is magicka weapon and will be used by ranged players, where Master Bow in PvP is serving only to buff your front Melee bar.

Did you actually test this or is this just paper-talk?

Strider__Roshin

I think it's fine honestly. Yeah it's a little stronger than Masters bow with a better ability attached to it, but the duration is much shorter. I don't see how it's imbalanced

Ruder

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

Ruder wrote: »

I mean 600 SPD (750 buffed) - this is WAY MORE than every other 5 piece set and it is on demand,
Let's compare this to Master Bow - 300 wpd and it cannot be buffed by multipliers.

400 spd (500 buffed) will be more suitable value, keep in mind that this is magicka weapon and will be used by ranged players, where Master Bow in PvP is serving only to buff your front Melee bar.

Did you actually test this or is this just paper-talk?

I am talking from a PvP perspective, there is NO need to test, this set will be broken OP on Magsorc, Magcro and Magden

Austinseph1

The thing is it's not nearly as strong as you would think. To use it with a vMA staff you would ether give up your mag monster helm (possibly ~4k dps) or a 4/5 piece bonus. Using a DOT continuously doesn't give you the full damage of the dot and and you would have to use it every 4 seconds... which is also a big waste of resources. Honestly if it didn't have a large buff it wouldn't be a viable option. I wouldn't use it but If you build around it you can be competitive which seems to be what they are going with changes going forward.

FirmamentOfStars

Austinseph1 wrote: »

The thing is it's not nearly as strong as you would think. To use it with a vMA staff you would ether give up your mag monster helm (possibly ~4k dps) or a 4/5 piece bonus. Using a DOT continuously doesn't give you the full damage of the dot and and you would have to use it every 4 seconds... which is also a big waste of resources. Honestly if it didn't have a large buff it wouldn't be a viable option. I wouldn't use it but If you build around it you can be competitive which seems to be what they are going with changes going forward.

Guess you misunderstood. We are not talking about PvE here...OP stated, that the big spell damage bonus will be a problem in PvP.

wheem_ESO

leepalmer95 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Ruder wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

No one uses Master Destro in Range
Also Magicka got nerfed so freaking hard its completly useless compared to stamina now.

Can you explain where magicka was nerfed? All I see is stamina nerf (battlespirit healing)

you realize that magickas only defensive option is healing atm, as well as dmg mitigation. Both things got nerfed hard, it effects stamina as well bot is not hitting it nearly as hard as magicka.

With base Crit resist, stamina players can run wellfitted/sturdy or other traits to mitigate damage. Whilest magicka players will just sit there with useless heals trying to get any offensive window they can find. The only magicka builds viable will be petsorcs....

Magicka has way more heals, shields and can block just fine like stamina?

The crit change is gonna let magicka spec more sturdy as well so they can block cast their 15k burst heals even easier.

Shields? In PvP? What is this, 2018?

There's also no patch-note about baseline crit resistance, but there is one regarding a nerf to the Impenetrable trait. Plus lots of defensive set nerfs, and plenty of new sources of armor penetration. It's also completely untrue that Magicka builds can "block just fine like stamina," at least in no-CP. Blocking with a staff on a Magicka build will destroy your Stamina pool in record time, and using 1h/shield comes with much more significant opportunity costs than it does for Stam builds.

No its 2020 where shields are still strong af?

They mentioned a baseline crit before they posted notes, maybe it was forgotten it happens.

Also the games sadly isn't catered towards no cp, I wish it was. But either way with baseline crit res you could go like 4-5 sturdy if you wanted. Also don't block with a staff? Block with a ice staff or s&B like you are supposed too. If you use a resto staff then that is your choice to give up blocking for lots of healing and a defence *carry* ult.

If shields are "strong af," why are they so rarely used? From a no-CP BG perspective, the only decent-or-better players using them are some Magicka Sorcerers. That's it. And that's without taking all the upcoming defensive nerfs and ridiculous levels of penetration into account.

Going by some other threads, it seems as though there is no baseline crit resistance on PTS at the moment. Whether or not it will be added in at some point, and what the amount will be if it is, are currently unknown.

And I have blocked with an Ice Staff before. I spent a long time running double destruction staves on Magicka Warden, with the back barred Ice Staff for Wall of Frost + blocking while being defensive. It's still not like you could do it for very long, and I basically just used it to buy time until I could (hopefully) Spiderman-vine to a teammate and get out of danger. Some Magicka classes, especially with the current - and upcoming - state of the game, essentially require a Resto Staff to be viable.

Stamina has, generally speaking, been superior to Magicka for quite some time now, and I think the gap is only going to widen next patch. I think there's going to be an awful lot of instakilling going on, and the only ways to combat that are dodge roll, mobility, and blocking. Except for Magicka Sorcerer mobility, Stamina has big advantages in all those forms of defense, and every decent Stam build will have super easy access to triggering the ridiculous Stuhn's Favor set. Maybe shields should make a comeback, but for right now they're hot garbage for all non-Sorcs, and oftentimes not used even then.

FrancisCrawford

Kolzki wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

Spectral Cloak:

This set now increases your damage done and reduces your damage taken by 10% for 2 seconds when dealing damage with Blade Cloak, rather than granting Major Protection for 3 seconds after casting it.
Reduced the Perfected version's Stamina Recovery to 103.



this is overpowered. not the masters staff. i really dont get how they make their numbers. a fokin free 10% dmg done +
10% dmg mitigation with 100% uptime.

5pieces sets have their 5piece bonus to grant about 5 to 7% dmg increase following the average budget. here, for 2pieces you have 10%+ AND 10%-. it's absurd even in pvp.

Those 5 piece sets don’t need 50% of your GCDs spamming a defensive skill to maintain their buffs.

Neither does Spectral Cloak. The benefit refreshes on each skill pulse.

WrathOfInnos

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

Spectral Cloak:

This set now increases your damage done and reduces your damage taken by 10% for 2 seconds when dealing damage with Blade Cloak, rather than granting Major Protection for 3 seconds after casting it.
Reduced the Perfected version's Stamina Recovery to 103.



this is overpowered. not the masters staff. i really dont get how they make their numbers. a fokin free 10% dmg done +
10% dmg mitigation with 100% uptime.

5pieces sets have their 5piece bonus to grant about 5 to 7% dmg increase following the average budget. here, for 2pieces you have 10%+ AND 10%-. it's absurd even in pvp.

Those 5 piece sets don’t need 50% of your GCDs spamming a defensive skill to maintain their buffs.

Neither does Spectral Cloak. The benefit refreshes on each skill pulse.

Apparently only while on the Dual Wield bar. It doesn’t refresh if you bar swap. Can anyone confirm this?

SirWafflecakes

So as a mag sorc who really misses flame reach, I can say that I am looking forward to this change. Ancient Grace, Crafty, chudan, master flame and potato resto is like having a permanent bsw pre nerf active on demand. No compromise in power at all. With that in mind... this probably is to strong and will get nerfed. The only draw back is using a dodgeable and blockable stun as opposed to streak. It seems worth it to me to gain inner light on my bar and bol instead of streak for kiting. Sorc burst will feel better, kiting will be easier, stun will still damage, and curse, frag, and endless will all hit harder all because of this 1 staff.

Vaoh

Would rather it gets reverted.

This weapon was the only way to access a Shock Damage spammable (plus it was a powerful AoE), and Ice Damage spammable.

Any builds that wanted to be pure “Shock Mages” or pure “Ice Mages” just got slaughtered. And for what? So Mag builds will need to spam this skill every 4-5 casts in PvE and you have to slot it in PvP....?

Really terrible idea for a weapon and also kills off two of the only Shock/Ice element-specific spammables. Smh

wheem_ESO

Vaoh wrote: »

Would rather it gets reverted.

This weapon was the only way to access a Shock Damage spammable (plus it was a powerful AoE), and Ice Damage spammable.

Any builds that wanted to be pure “Shock Mages” or pure “Ice Mages” just got slaughtered. And for what? So Mag builds will need to spam this skill every 4-5 casts in PvE and you have to slot it in PvP....?

Really terrible idea for a weapon and also kills off two of the only Shock/Ice element-specific spammables. Smh

It 100% does not need to be reverted; these stupid PvE-obtained weapons need to stay in PvE where they belong. By no means should they provide PvP players with a better spammable than is otherwise available to everyone else. As I've said before, I've seen Magicka Wardens using Master Staves on live and having their 1-button spammable do more damage than their class defining burst skill, and that's a problem.

Vaoh

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Would rather it gets reverted.

This weapon was the only way to access a Shock Damage spammable (plus it was a powerful AoE), and Ice Damage spammable.

Any builds that wanted to be pure “Shock Mages” or pure “Ice Mages” just got slaughtered. And for what? So Mag builds will need to spam this skill every 4-5 casts in PvE and you have to slot it in PvP....?

Really terrible idea for a weapon and also kills off two of the only Shock/Ice element-specific spammables. Smh

It 100% does not need to be reverted; these stupid PvE-obtained weapons need to stay in PvE where they belong. By no means should they provide PvP players with a better spammable than is otherwise available to everyone else. As I've said before, I've seen Magicka Wardens using Master Staves on live and having their 1-button spammable do more damage than their class defining burst skill, and that's a problem.

What lol. Did you mean to comment to my post...? There’s almost no relation of my post to what you’re saying.

I’m talking about the only true Ice and Shock spammables in the game being deleted since they are currently tied to the Master Destro. And in the case of the Endgame PvE, Mag chars will lose the powerful Master Shock Staff spammable.

In terms of PvP.... well this new version is something that will make Master Destro probably BiS on PvP mag builds. So not sure why you would like it.

wheem_ESO

Vaoh wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Would rather it gets reverted.

This weapon was the only way to access a Shock Damage spammable (plus it was a powerful AoE), and Ice Damage spammable.

Any builds that wanted to be pure “Shock Mages” or pure “Ice Mages” just got slaughtered. And for what? So Mag builds will need to spam this skill every 4-5 casts in PvE and you have to slot it in PvP....?

Really terrible idea for a weapon and also kills off two of the only Shock/Ice element-specific spammables. Smh

It 100% does not need to be reverted; these stupid PvE-obtained weapons need to stay in PvE where they belong. By no means should they provide PvP players with a better spammable than is otherwise available to everyone else. As I've said before, I've seen Magicka Wardens using Master Staves on live and having their 1-button spammable do more damage than their class defining burst skill, and that's a problem.

What lol. Did you mean to comment to my post...? There’s almost no relation of my post to what you’re saying.

I’m talking about the only true Ice and Shock spammables in the game being deleted since they are currently tied to the Master Destro. And in the case of the Endgame PvE, Mag chars will lose the powerful Master Shock Staff spammable.

In terms of PvP.... well this new version is something that will make Master Destro probably BiS on PvP mag builds. So not sure why you would like it.

Of course I meant to reply to your post. You said you would rather it gets reverted, and I (strongly) disagreed. I also doubt that this change would make it the best PvP weapon out there. Without the current (overpowered) version of Master Staves, Destructive Clench/Reach aren't that good, so anyone utilizing it will be giving up an important bar slot in order to get the extra spell damage. Compared to the ludicrous nonsense that is Stuhn's + Dizzy spam with an ultimate? This version of the Master Staff doesn't seem that important.

I've long thought that Magicka Warden was a decent candidate for an "ice mage" playstyle, but ZOS doesn't seem terribly interested in doing that (outside of some ground-based AOE spam with proc sets in PvP, which is pretty meh). If they ever change their mind, I certainly hope they don't tie such a thing to some stupid PvE weapon that I have absolutely 0 interest in farming for countless hours.

Cinbri

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

Spectral Cloak:

This set now increases your damage done and reduces your damage taken by 10% for 2 seconds when dealing damage with Blade Cloak, rather than granting Major Protection for 3 seconds after casting it.
Reduced the Perfected version's Stamina Recovery to 103.



this is overpowered. not the masters staff. i really dont get how they make their numbers. a fokin free 10% dmg done +
10% dmg mitigation with 100% uptime.

5pieces sets have their 5piece bonus to grant about 5 to 7% dmg increase following the average budget. here, for 2pieces you have 10%+ AND 10%-. it's absurd even in pvp.

Those 5 piece sets don’t need 50% of your GCDs spamming a defensive skill to maintain their buffs.

Neither does Spectral Cloak. The benefit refreshes on each skill pulse.

Apparently only while on the Dual Wield bar. It doesn’t refresh if you bar swap. Can anyone confirm this?

Yes, it proc now only when you on your brp dw bar.
Regarding destro - it definitely overtuned. Instead of following standards like their did with Balorgh - damage items should be focused on damage, they did vice versa and made staff to affect healings too (which supposed to be nerfed). And yes, people does spamming shock clench in pvp, so next update such platstyle will have +600 spd with constant uptime - this is too op.
And ofc noticed that people who using at spammable came here to defend it, just coz they want overtuned stuff in their arsenal for next patch...

llBlack_Heartll

I wonder if Elf Bane will increase the bonus to 9s with the flame staff? Or will it just be the DOT.

wheem_ESO

Cinbri wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

Spectral Cloak:

This set now increases your damage done and reduces your damage taken by 10% for 2 seconds when dealing damage with Blade Cloak, rather than granting Major Protection for 3 seconds after casting it.
Reduced the Perfected version's Stamina Recovery to 103.



this is overpowered. not the masters staff. i really dont get how they make their numbers. a fokin free 10% dmg done +
10% dmg mitigation with 100% uptime.

5pieces sets have their 5piece bonus to grant about 5 to 7% dmg increase following the average budget. here, for 2pieces you have 10%+ AND 10%-. it's absurd even in pvp.

Those 5 piece sets don’t need 50% of your GCDs spamming a defensive skill to maintain their buffs.

Neither does Spectral Cloak. The benefit refreshes on each skill pulse.

Apparently only while on the Dual Wield bar. It doesn’t refresh if you bar swap. Can anyone confirm this?

Yes, it proc now only when you on your brp dw bar.
Regarding destro - it definitely overtuned. Instead of following standards like their did with Balorgh - damage items should be focused on damage, they did vice versa and made staff to affect healings too (which supposed to be nerfed). And yes, people does spamming shock clench in pvp, so next update such platstyle will have +600 spd with constant uptime - this is too op.
And ofc noticed that people who using at spammable came here to defend it, just coz they want overtuned stuff in their arsenal for next patch...

What sort of (PvP) damage are you seeing with Destructive Clench as a spammable on the PTS? Without the flat damage bonus, and a significantly reduced cost reduction, I figured it wouldn't be all that great. If I'm wrong about that, then yes it absolutely should be nerfed - it would have far too much effect on PvP for being a weapon obtained via non-trivial PvE (which may require a lot of really boring farming). Either way, the current live version is completely unacceptable IMO, and I hope that changes.

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

I wonder if Elf Bane will increase the bonus to 9s with the flame staff? Or will it just be the DOT.

I'm really confident that it would only impact the DOT, since the buff itself isn't fire-based or anything.