Do not let shield stacking meta go for another year..

Ruder

If the battlespirit changes go live (Healing reduced from 50% to 60%) this will force a huge light armor shield stacking meta, because people will feel more safe behind the untouched shields.
Please address this issue in one of the following ways

a) Make it to not be possible to slot more than 1 shield skill on your bars.

b) Make shield stacking with diminishing returns like: each consequential shield has its strength reduced by 30%

c) Self casting a shield will just replace your old shield with the new one (like it works if you spam the same shield over and over again)

d) reduce the shield size trough battle spirit by 60% up from the current 50% (same treatment as healing)

Bradyfjord

Are you speaking of CP or no CP?

In CP Cyrodiil I haven't found shields something out of control. Sometimes I don't win an exchange, but sometimes I do. I feel it's down to skill since I can slot shield skills too.

That said, I don't do non-cp. So I can't really talk about that. Perhaps non-CP pvp needs a different kind of battle spirit so they can be 'balanced' differently?

Ruder

@Bradyfjord yes, sorry for not being clear, I mainly play NO-CP PvP, where overhealing is not so pronounced and making mistakes is costly even if you are good player and you cannot always recover after them.

Houshiki

I honestly don't see how shield stacking is such a problem. Sure if the sorc you're fighting knows what he's doing, then it'll be a hard fight, but they're hardly OP. Just need to pressure them enough to make a mistake, or line up a strong enough burst combo with a stun when their shield is about to expire.

Besides, shields aren't exactly cheap to cast, so spamming shields is going eat up resources fast. Each cast takes a gcd, so its not like they'd have a huge shield instantly. They have a short timer, and can be crit against. If all that's still not enough, well, oblivion dmg ignores shields.

No, if anything's a problem, it would be the unkillable, perma-blocking heal-tanks, imo.

Major_Lag

Sounds like a L2P issue to me.

In order for shields to have any practical use, you have to specifically build for it (max magicka), sacrificing a lot in other areas.
Shields are also quite expensive and only good for 1-2 hits.

Your best counter against a shield stacker is to CC them on cooldown, soon they will be out of stamina and ready to eat your burst.
This is especially true in noCP, where breakfree is very expensive on mag builds and you don't have the CP to help with that.

Urvoth

You know it costs like 8k magicka after passives to stack with 2 shields on a sorc right? Not exactly a spammable defense...

Major_Lag

Urvoth wrote: »

You know it costs like 8k magicka after passives to stack with 2 shields on a sorc right? Not exactly a spammable defense...

^ this ^

Also if you can't kill someone who does nothing but repeatedly spam 2 shields in your face, then you probably have much bigger problems to worry about in any case.

Houshiki

Major_Lag wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

You know it costs like 8k magicka after passives to stack with 2 shields on a sorc right? Not exactly a spammable defense...

^ this ^

Also if you can't kill someone who does nothing but repeatedly spam 2 shields in your face, then you probably have much bigger problems to worry about in any case.

Ikr, now imagine way back when the shield-stacking meta was 3 shields instead of just 2. One of which was huge and hard to crack, another gave magicka returns, and the last healed any dmg done. Good times, good times.

Ruder

Ok so you obviously have no clue how OP the sorcs are in NO CP / battlegrounds

* Shields are critable argument - IN CP crit chance is 9% lower and crit damage is way lower
* It is l2p issue - it is not, i`m top tier PvPer, i do only PvP for the past 4 years.
* You can't sustain shield spamming - you obviously live in another universe since you don't know what Engine Guardian and Dark convert are.
* Run the sorc out of stamina - You cannot run make a top tier Sorc player to run out of stamina, I use root poisons and CC almost on CD, the good sorc will have at least 800 stam recovery and will use Tri-pots.


Note that these are pinpoints which are related to HIGH MMR BATTLEGROUNDs, not Zergodiil or anywhere else

ku5h

And you obviously have no clue how OP stam HPS is, in both CP and noCP.

Yes, shields are critable and can't crit. That is actually a thing, even tho they homogenized them with other deff, they left that small part out. Your argument is, crits are meh anyway!? lol
You know, stam HA is a thing to, so you don't need 2k+ regen, you don't need actually abilities or sets to sustain.
How much does it cost stam to activate 2 HoTs that provide 4k+ HPS over 5-10 sec.
Shield scale worse the more ppl attack you, out of all defensive tools. That is why Sorcs are always focused first. You simply can't survive more then one player for any prolonged amount of time, stam can.
How do you kill stamNecros if you cant kill magSorc?

ku5h

Also you're far better off using 1 Shield and Rapid regen, then running 2 Shields, if yor're not running pet build. (noCP)

Houshiki

Ruder wrote: »

Ok so you obviously have no clue how OP the sorcs are in NO CP / battlegrounds

* Shields are critable argument - IN CP crit chance is 9% lower and crit damage is way lower
* It is l2p issue - it is not, i`m top tier PvPer, i do only PvP for the past 4 years.
* You can't sustain shield spamming - you obviously live in another universe since you don't know what Engine Guardian and Dark convert are.
* Run the sorc out of stamina - You cannot run make a top tier Sorc player to run out of stamina, I use root poisons and CC almost on CD, the good sorc will have at least 800 stam recovery and will use Tri-pots.


Note that these are pinpoints which are related to HIGH MMR BATTLEGROUNDs, not Zergodiil or anywhere else

Ok, so we're not talking about the average, run of the mill, shield stacking sorc; but, instead, a top tier, shield focused/optimized sorc that knows the class, and how to use it, inside and out. Really?

• Firstly, yes shields can be crit, and yes it does indeed matter. The fact that they can now be crit is the reason shield-stacking sorcs now slot impen gear.
• Secondly, is it a l2p issue? I don't know, and I don't care. What matters is if you can't kill a shield-stacking sorc then that's on you.
• Thirdly, even with engine guardian and dark conversion, you won't be able to sustain shield spamming, since they're not cheap to cast. A reason why we sorcs often build for max mag and sustain.
• Fourthly, yes sorcs do run out of stamina. A that sorc knows what they're doing and to not panic will know to waste stamina sprinting and roll-dodging unless it's necessary. Afterall, we need that stamina to cc break. If you can't drain their stam, or line-up your combo when they're stunned then that's on you.

Ruder

@ku5h you obviously have no clue what i said.
Your critical damage and critical chance in NO CP are significantly lower than in CP, therefore you cannot rely on your crit to burst the shield down.
And no i do not run 2k stam regen, most of my builds are full heavy with 550 stam recovery and no cost reduction glyphs, normally sitting around 4k-4.5k wpd.

"Shield scales worse the more pple attack you" - so is every other thing in the game, HOWEVER your healing can be defiled but the shields cannot they have constant size

iCaliban

Shield stacking meta? Lmao. 2016 called it wants its information back

Houshiki

iCaliban wrote: »

Shield stacking meta? Lmao. 2016 called it wants its information back

Good times that. We had huge shields, and could run full divines or something without any consequence. Good times.

Alucardo

I hated shield stacking meta more than anyone, but honestly it hasn't been an issue for quite a while. I think shields in general feel balanced finally if anything.

ku5h

Ruder wrote: »

@ku5h you obviously have no clue what i said.
Your critical damage and critical chance in NO CP are significantly lower than in CP, therefore you cannot rely on your crit to burst the shield down.
And no i do not run 2k stam regen, most of my builds are full heavy with 550 stam recovery and no cost reduction glyphs, normally sitting around 4k-4.5k wpd.

"Shield scales worse the more pple attack you" - so is every other thing in the game, HOWEVER your healing can be defiled but the shields cannot they have constant size

That's why ppl say having 2 shields up in cpPVP is just to hard on sustain. You need more then 2k mag sustain to be able to shield stack, while stam can run base regen and have no sustain issues.
So do you see the downside now? If you can sustain 2 shields, you do no dmg.
You seem to understand all of it but you simply have bias against shields, even though they're far from being top defense tool.

Curious_Death

two shields? great pick shieldbreaker... G G shield stackers...

Houshiki

Curious_Death wrote: »

two shields? great pick shieldbreaker... G G shield stackers...

While the 12% will certainly hurt, a lot, its still better than being the hard counter to shields it was previously.

Ruder

[snip]
On the shield stacking topic:

@ku5h yes sorcs need to invest a lot in mag regen, but having low spell damage does not make them do little damage, Curse / frag + meteor followed by streak combo can kill even top tier players when performed right (like it should), however the problem comes when you on your stam build try to Kill the sorc > You will immediately face 12-15k shieldstack which is on top of the 21-24k health pool, which result as 30-35k health effectively, now please do tell me how do you land 30k burst in less than 2 seconds ? Because you wont have more than a 1.5 seconds before the sorc break free and streak away while in the same time you are getting stunned from the streak.

My point is not that the sorcs are weak in vX scenario, my point is that sorcs are overperforming in 1v1 scenario, or Xv1 scenarios, because they have the best mobility toolkit in the game with arguably the best sustain skills as well on top of the class shield.

[edited for off topic]

Aedaryl

So :

About sustain : Shield stacking cost way too much : about 8k Magicka every 3-4s VS a single player.

About shield VS heal :

Shield is less efficient than heal to protect yourself :

- you cannot reduce the damage you take on your shield by blocking
- you cannot get out of execute range by shielding
- you cannot benenif from healing modifier (like the 20% increase near a keep)

About group teamplay :
Hardened ward/Dampen doesn't heal other people while other magicka heal does.

jaws343

Shield stacking just isn't viable. Especially im no cp.

Shields are expensive.

Shields are weak. In no cp you are lucky to have an 8k shield without completely gutting your stamina because health and magicka are lower in no cp.

Shields take crit damage. It doesn't really matter if it is lower in no cp because shields are smaller and hard to sustain there anyways.

Shield stacking doesn't happen with a player who is actually doing damage.

A shield goes down in one hit with a a skill and a light attack. If you are putting pressure on a player, the only thing they can do if they are shield stacking is continuously apply shields. And good luck stacking with dark exchange. You have to go through the cast time and if a player can't burn your shields and interrupt in that time they don't deserve to kill the sorc.

And, shield stacking just isn't needed. Players are better off spamming one shield over and over. Since shields die so quickly and all you are going to be doing if you shield stack is spamming shields until you run out of magicka. You can just repeatedly spam 1 shield and do the exact same thing with the exact same effectiveness since an attacking player is just going to burn your shield down the moment you put it up.

oxygen_thief

Ruder wrote: »

Ok so you obviously have no clue how OP the sorcs are in NO CP / battlegrounds

* Shields are critable argument - IN CP crit chance is 9% lower and crit damage is way lower
* It is l2p issue - it is not, i`m top tier PvPer, i do only PvP for the past 4 years.
* You can't sustain shield spamming - you obviously live in another universe since you don't know what Engine Guardian and Dark convert are.
* Run the sorc out of stamina - You cannot run make a top tier Sorc player to run out of stamina, I use root poisons and CC almost on CD, the good sorc will have at least 800 stam recovery and will use Tri-pots.


Note that these are pinpoints which are related to HIGH MMR BATTLEGROUNDs, not Zergodiil or anywhere else

pls give me that op shield stacking nocp build because i heard a lot about op battleground sorcs but i havent seen one

Deathlord92

My magblade never using shields if I can help it I much prefer healing.

ZOS_RachelM

Greetings! We've removed some posts from this thread as they violated our rules on bashing, as well as being off topic.

While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole.

olsborg

Shields are extremely expensive to keep casting, they cant crit, but can be crit upon. And like others have said, you can precast a shield to avoid some dmg, but if you fall low on hp into execute range, your shield wont help you. Heals are better then shields imo, but some classes are still dependent on a shield for survival.

Strider__Roshin

Shield stacking is still an issue eh?

ZonasArch

This post is comedy gold. Between complaints about stacking, which very few do because it's straight up a stupid strat, a dude -claiming- to be top dog PvP as if this proves anything, and the amount of cry about something that we all know is necessary...

C'mon, guys. You're there, fighting for 2 minutes, that guy is down to nothing% health, and BAM, full HP again. 60 is not enough and won't change anything. Should be 75%.

Healing is broken AF in the only kind of PvP that matters as it is. NoCP and BG isn't broken but still OP too. This change won't do much at all to help fix super tanky+Healy+damagy builds in CP cyro, which again, is the only pvp that truly matters.

Xarcus

The nerf about healing is welcome.

And you know, they already nerfed shields. I don't understand why you're so scared. Shields are only an illusion and you can easily pass out if you keep enough damages on your target more than 15sec.
By exemple, actually, sorcs without pets are forced to tp because they cant spam shield or they oom

Beardimus

Ruder wrote: »

If the battlespirit changes go live (Healing reduced from 50% to 60%) this will force a huge light armor shield stacking meta, because people will feel more safe behind the untouched shields.
Please address this issue in one of the following ways

a) Make it to not be possible to slot more than 1 shield skill on your bars.

b) Make shield stacking with diminishing returns like: each consequential shield has its strength reduced by 30%

c) Self casting a shield will just replace your old shield with the new one (like it works if you spam the same shield over and over again)

d) reduce the shield size trough battle spirit by 60% up from the current 50% (same treatment as healing)

Surely this is a necro?

We can't be slamming shield stacking in 2020 surely.

Look what the last complaining got the anti ward camps. They wanted resistances hey wanted wards to crit. So now sorcs are less glass cannon as they had to drop stuff for Impen and Resistances. So actually wards down they are HARDER to kill.

Don't push for something because you can't adapt your offense. Work around the wards don't just batter your head against them.

Universe

Damage shields are balanced.
So many nerfs over the years and they are mere shadows of their former selves:
1. You can crit the damage shields.
2. They last 6 seconds.
3. They are weak.
4. The cost to cast them is high.
5. They are capped in relation to the caster max health.
6. Oblivion damage is very efficient against damage shields caster.
7. Once the damage shields are off, the caster is extremely squishy. It is the main defense of the caster.

The counters list goes on.