Vampiric Drain should'nt be a Criminal Act, Its lore breaking its also mage magic not just vampire.

Thevampirenight

The reasoning is quite simple vampires are not the only skill line to have siphoning effects. Or do what the Vampiric Drain does. For it to be a Criminal act is beyond stupid as all other skills like it should then be made criminal also.
The Nightblade has similar Vampiric Drain like Abilities that are a lot like vampiric drain.
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Strife
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Debilitate
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Siphoning+Strikes
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Soul+Tether

Reasons why its lore breaking.
Its restoration magic/mysticism ,used to heal a caster of health vampires plus mages and priests are able to use this type of magic.
Edited to include why I consider this highly Lore Breaking.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Notes_On_The_Lunar_Forge
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Absorb_Health
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Absorb_Health
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Absorb_Magicka
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Absorb_Fatigue
Example Morrowind Vampire ability. Vampire Touch spell, which Absorbs Health 10-30 points on touch. It will always have a 100% success rate.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Absorb_Health

The reason why this is lore breaking is vampires are not always obviously vampires and mages and priests use this kind of magic. Though it is also known as vampiric spell effects this magic has been shown to be used/taught by Non Vampires, Including those that would find Vampires to be abominations will sell or teach this kind of magic.
This is the type of magic the mages guild would be teaching as its not vampire exclusive. I cannot accept the vampiric drain to be a crime because of the priest thing especially but also mages use it too.
However I am fine with many of the skills being criminal just not this one.
So my advice would be to flip hypnotic gaze and Vampiric drain and have hypnotic gaze be a crime instead. As that would fix the little lore issue I'm seeing here.
Its one of the worst changes they did with the vampire because its breaking lore. Only Reach magic and Necromancy is treated with real hostility. Absorb magic is neither of those.
Vampire changes are fine as lore has 100 differant kinds of vampires but please for the love of Stendarr fix this one. I'll live with it either way but this is just as bad as Bosmer and Khajiit racials that should belong to the other and I'm not getting into that with this thread but I think its like that. It doesn't make sense and looks bad.

Sheezabeast

Attacking innocents does give you a bounty if you are seen, so I don`t see the issue?

Thevampirenight

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Attacking innocents does give you a bounty if you are seen, so I don`t see the issue?

The issue that obviously vampiric like abilties used by the nightblade wouldn't be criminal. When they should be since Vampiric drain is.

peacenote

In my opinion, vampiric drain shouldn't be a criminal act because it will make the game more annoying and less fun.

Changing all of those other abilities would be horrible and would not make this scenario better. Which is equally likely to happen with the argument being made. Not to mention the fact that there are absorb enchants... should those be criminal every time they proc?

That said, the reason vampiric drain is criminal is because the source of the ability's power is considered evil, like necromancy. It has nothing to do with its actual function and more the method by which the ability was obtained. It is because you are doing this AS A VAMPIRE.

As an aside, here is a thread I found on the forums where the general consensus seems to be that Templars align with Aedra.

Aliyavana

Nightblades are oriented towards shadow magic tho, not vampirism

Taleof2Cities

peacenote wrote: »

In my opinion, vampiric drain shouldn't be a criminal act because it will make the game more annoying and less fun.

I disagree.

This change would make the game more fun.

Because now you’ll be able to see which players are too lazy to control their skills in town ... and/or haven’t learned how to escape the guards.

Even today there are players with the “Master Thief” title still getting chased by the guards. Hilarious!

Dusk_Coven

I think we can't really compare them to class skills because the context of a Criminal Act is that people link it to what society considers a Criminal automatically. That person doesn't have to commit a crime -- being a Vampire (or Necromancer) is itself a type of "crime" that causes law enforcement to want to hunt you down.

By using an ability that people recognize to be Vampiric-specific, whether you are using it on an "innocent" or not, you are outing yourself as being a Vampire, and therefore a Criminal, in the eyes of society.
With class skills, presumably people have come to recognize that particular skill as not 100% indicative of Vampirism?

Of course ZOS has confused the issue with Rivenspire and Vampirism sort-of-not-illegal there but that's another issue.
And the fact that the guards know you are a Vampire (or Necromancer) but let you off with a bounty.... so they can farm bounty money from you? Because next time you're outed as a Vampire (which they know you are!) you'll just get another bounty?

If they took away the blood geyser and returned to just biting people it would be more clear.

FakeFox

No [Snip] skill should be a criminal act, it's annoying and serves no purpose.

[Edited for profanity bypass]

Thevampirenight

peacenote wrote: »

In my opinion, vampiric drain shouldn't be a criminal act because it will make the game more annoying and less fun.

Changing all of those other abilities would be horrible and would not make this scenario better. Which is equally likely to happen with the argument being made. Not to mention the fact that there are absorb enchants... should those be criminal every time they proc?

That said, the reason vampiric drain is criminal is because the source of the ability's power is considered evil, like necromancy. It has nothing to do with its actual function and more the method by which the ability was obtained. It is because you are doing this AS A VAMPIRE.

As an aside, here is a thread I found on the forums where the general consensus seems to be that Templars align with Aedra.

Well tes Vampires can choose to be evil or not or even use their abilities for the cause of good. Like the Ravenwatch vampires.
Night Blade abilties some of them are very twisted in how they are described. Also the Siphonning skill line does have blood magic abilties. They are even more twisted I feel then the Vampiric Drain. Vampiric abilties take life force but the nightblade abilties target and drain energy from the targets souls in some of those abilties. It is shadow magic but also a mix of soul manipulation and blood magic.
So if they are going the route of Vampiric drain is a crime then the Night Blade Siphoning abilties should be added to the justice system. Otherwise they should remove the criminal aspect from that one ability. But keep it for the others.

MartiniDaniels

If you will use those NB abilities on NPC, it will be a criminal act.

StormeReigns

FakeFox wrote: »

No [Snip] skill should be a criminal act, it's annoying and serves no purpose.
[Edited for profanity bypass]

I agree. Want to use Blade of Woe on neutral npcs in front of guards and townfolk without issues.
Pickpocket with zero repercussions. Want to use Blastbones on all guards without being attacked - or crit.charge on them with out them getting angry. We should be rewarded the best items for just zoning into an area without working for it, BiS gear soon as we log in, etc...

ArchMikem

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Attacking innocents does give you a bounty if you are seen, so I don`t see the issue?

The issue that obviously vampiric like abilties used by the nightblade wouldn't be criminal. When they should be since Vampiric drain is.

Nightblade buff abilities don't target NPCs. Any NB skill that does is basically attacking an innocent anyway. Besides ZOS has started to steadily create criminal act abilities that started with the Necro. Vampires are next. For some reason this can't be done for everything all at once, probably don't have the time to do it so it's coming in increments.

FakeFox wrote: »

No [Snip] skill should be a criminal act, it's annoying and serves no purpose.
[Edited for profanity bypass]

Don't mess with my immersion.

peacenote

StormeReigns wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

No [Snip] skill should be a criminal act, it's annoying and serves no purpose.
[Edited for profanity bypass]

I agree. Want to use Blade of Woe on neutral npcs in front of guards and townfolk without issues.
Pickpocket with zero repercussions. Want to use Blastbones on all guards without being attacked - or crit.charge on them with out them getting angry. We should be rewarded the best items for just zoning into an area without working for it, BiS gear soon as we log in, etc...

I could be wrong, but I don't think this is what FakeFox meant and it's definitely not what I mean either when I say this.

There is no question that attacking innocents or guards, with any ability, should have repercussions in the justice system. This is good, consistent, logical game play. There is no question that if you are seen thieving it is a considered a criminal act, for everyone, in the justice system. The blade of woe is directly murdering someone which is the highest extreme of attacking them so obviously it makes sense that this action is illegal if you are caught.

This is as it should be and is part of the fun of what we all experience when that system was implemented.

Having CERTAIN abilities, some which don't target anyone, be considered criminal, for only certain classes, because ESO lore in some places doesn't have a tolerance for that activity, is EXTREMELY annoying. To me it is more immersion-breaking that we are accepting of some behaviors and not others in an inconsistent way. "One" Tamriel, generally-speaking, is quite tolerant of multiple faiths, ways of life, and living situations. You as a hero can exist as a vampire or werewolf and, at least for a vampire, it is clearly obvious that's what you are and you're generally accepted. You as a hero can be a necromancer and fight the good fight. It makes no sense to have certain abilities have an innate sense of wrongness if they are done in specific areas if in other scenarios it's completely fine to use them.

To expand further on this, you can't pickpocket monsters. This makes the game more logical in that whenever you pickpocket anything it is ALWAYS WRONG. It just may be that sometimes you don't get caught. Same thing applies with killing/attacking innocents or guards. Injuring them is ALWAYS wrong, but killing monsters is never a problem. Breaking into someone's house is ALWAYS WRONG. This is different than a scenario where an ability, in and of itself, is considered problematic even when not used against an innocent.

I respect that not everyone agrees with this perspective, I really do. But from people like me, who might accidentally hit the wrong button and fire off a necro ability, to the folks who RP and have a positive back story to their vampire, werewolf, or necromancy characters, I think it's actually restrictive to have the justice system selectively condemn certain abilities. I can waltz right up to a faction leader and have a conversation in werewolf form or with a necromancer pet following me and still get my reward, but heaven forbid I do that in a town, minding my own business, after having completed my hero's business. This is not immersion, it's silliness.

I have not read or watched any of the content for Greymoor and if Vampiric Drain does damage it should certainly be a criminal act the same as any other ability that deals damage. But it shouldn't be a criminal act if done against a monster, or in a duel, or whatever, just because a guard is watching. And I feel the same way for all abilities. I don't think the annoyance is worth the initial feeling of "oh that's cool" you might have for two seconds the first time you realize a guard noticed you doing this "evil" ability. For me at least, the novelty wears off REALLY fast. And it takes away from the realism if I get a bounty when I am not, in fact, performing evil deeds to innocents.

Juhasow

StormeReigns wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

No [Snip] skill should be a criminal act, it's annoying and serves no purpose.
[Edited for profanity bypass]

I agree. Want to use Blade of Woe on neutral npcs in front of guards and townfolk without issues.
Pickpocket with zero repercussions. Want to use Blastbones on all guards without being attacked - or crit.charge on them with out them getting angry. We should be rewarded the best items for just zoning into an area without working for it, BiS gear soon as we log in, etc...

I think You've missed the point @StormeReigns . I am almost certain OP was talking about using abilities when guards or citizens can see You but You dont use said abilities to attack them or to cause any other harm to them. Something like using spirit guardian in a duel nearby guard. Nobody is talking about attacking guards or NPC mobs in towns without punishment

StormeReigns

Juhasow wrote: »

StormeReigns wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

No [Snip] skill should be a criminal act, it's annoying and serves no purpose.
[Edited for profanity bypass]

I agree. Want to use Blade of Woe on neutral npcs in front of guards and townfolk without issues.
Pickpocket with zero repercussions. Want to use Blastbones on all guards without being attacked - or crit.charge on them with out them getting angry. We should be rewarded the best items for just zoning into an area without working for it, BiS gear soon as we log in, etc...

I think You've missed the point @StormeReigns . I am almost certain OP was talking about using abilities when guards or citizens can see You but You dont use said abilities to attack them.

No point was missed. Self Control, a little forethought and positioning / situational awareness can go a long ways, especially when there is plausibility and probabilities of danger.

Take the venom out of a cobra and what do you get? A belt.

Thevampirenight

Juhasow wrote: »

StormeReigns wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

No [Snip] skill should be a criminal act, it's annoying and serves no purpose.
[Edited for profanity bypass]

I agree. Want to use Blade of Woe on neutral npcs in front of guards and townfolk without issues.
Pickpocket with zero repercussions. Want to use Blastbones on all guards without being attacked - or crit.charge on them with out them getting angry. We should be rewarded the best items for just zoning into an area without working for it, BiS gear soon as we log in, etc...

I think You've missed the point @StormeReigns . I am almost certain OP was talking about using abilities when guards or citizens can see You but You dont use said abilities to attack them or to cause any other harm to them. Something like using spirit guardian in a duel nearby guard. Nobody is talking about attacking guards or NPC mobs in towns without punishment

That was the point I was making @Juhasow , I personally doubt a civilian would know what a vampire ability even looks like of course using them against the innocent should be a crime. Here is the thing I can understand it with the Necromancy because its so obviously necromancy, but it could be any kind of magic with a vampire and its just a gold sink at most . The Blood Scion, and mist form abilities make sense being criminal as those are obviously not normal magicka abilties and Vampires are known to use Mist Form.

Otherwise why would most guards and civilians even know the distinction? How would they know about the rest of the vampiric skill set when most might not have even encountered a vampire?
The thing is they wouldn't, if I was Zenimax only those two skills and only those two skills would be criminal everything else it wouldn't be criminal. Then it would be a lot more immersive.

Lady_Linux

Thevampirenight wrote: »

The reasoning is quite simple vampires are not the only skill line to have siphoning effects. Or do what the Vampiric Drain does. For it to be a Criminal act is beyond stupid as all other skills like it should then be made criminal also.
The Nightblade has similar Vampiric Drain like Abilities that are a lot like vampiric drain.
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Strife
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Debilitate
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Siphoning+Strikes
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Soul+Tether

Templars
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Restoring+Aura is a magicka skill that steals magicka from foes.

The Necromancers
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Shocking+Siphon
This drains from corpses but clearly is like Vampiric drain in a way.

Sour grapes

YandereGirlfriend

Necromancy definitely IS illegal and is frowned upon by all races save the Dunmer and the Sload (and in the case of the Dunmer it's only accepted to use necromancy on humans or beastfolk, never fellow elves).

This is reinforced through the gameplay and lore of several mainline TES games (in Skyrim it only passes due to that game severely dumbing down the mechanics and, technically, because the Mages Guild isn't around to enforce the ban).

Nightblade as an ESO class is ad hoc mumbo-jumbo from a lore perspective but it makes perfect sense as to why you can't raise skeletons in public or viciously rip the blood from an innocent townsperson.

What exactly are you guys doing in your gameplay where this is such an important concern, anyway? Especially in light of the all the performance problems and incoming combat disruptions.

idk

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Attacking innocents does give you a bounty if you are seen, so I don`t see the issue?

The issue that obviously vampiric like abilties used by the nightblade wouldn't be criminal. When they should be since Vampiric drain is.

Nightblade abilities are not vampire abilities. There is a very different foundation for the skills so logically speaking they should be treated differently.

colossalvoids

Aliyavana wrote: »

Nightblades are oriented towards shadow magic tho, not vampirism

^ and also this:

What exactly are you guys doing in your gameplay where this is such an important concern, anyway? Especially in light of the all the performance problems and incoming combat disruptions.

TheShadowScout

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Vampiric Drain should'nt be a Criminal Act, unless skills like it are made to be as well.

Sure it should be a criminal act!!!

Because its not about what the skill does... its that using this particular skill outs any vampire as "...bloodsucking monster, Kill It With FIRE!!!"

Gotta keep up the masquerade after all!

Thevampirenight

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Vampiric Drain should'nt be a Criminal Act, unless skills like it are made to be as well.

Sure it should be a criminal act!!!

Because its not about what the skill does... its that using this particular skill outs any vampire as "...bloodsucking monster, Kill It With FIRE!!!"

Gotta keep up the masquerade after all!

It looks like a more powerful version of the one Nightblade skill.
Found a video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRX76ApI5vE

The Night Blade strife visual looks similar in nature to the new Vampiric drain. That is the problem I have with this. Is if Vampiric Drain is a crime then Strife a vampiric like spell should be part of the Justice system. Nightblade siphoning abilties should be included. Because if a guard sees one using vampiric drain, the vampire can say oh I'm just using a more powerful version of strife using magic based off radient destruction and they say okay carry on. The New Vampiric Drain could just as easily be a Nightblade ability and how would they even know? A guard sees a person use the siphonning tree. Then sees vampiric drain how would they tell the difference?

The thing is with the Nightblade class it isn't breaking any masquerade that is the issue. It just fits right in as just another nightblade ability they can't prove anything. They can't prove a vampire with that. So it being a crime is total nonsense and immersion breaking because of it.

Dusk_Coven

I think it comes down to this: They want the societal role of Vampire to somehow show up in gameplay. It's a design choice and therefore there's an artificial distinction regardless of the visuals or even power concepts.

When someone signs up to be a Vampire, they want that player to experience that as part of the fantasy. They don't want Vampires -- which hare more a Race than a Class (job) -- to just be another flavour of a Race. It's part o the Power Fantasy to be feared and reviled by the populace -- or at least that's the package you have to accept when you want to be a TES Vampire.

When someone signs up to be a Nightblade, it's not part of the power fantasy to be mistaken for a Vampire. It's more of a Job than a Race.
So whatever similarity you want to draw from their powers, it's considered incidental to these concerns.

If anything, given what you are presenting -- that some powers are too close to the Power Fantasy of Vampirism -- it would actually be better to reinforce those classes as distinct from Vampirism by changing them instead. This late into the game though, I doubt that's going to happen, but they did add floating stamina magic blades over a sorcerer's head, so...

alanmatillab16_ESO

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Attacking innocents does give you a bounty if you are seen, so I don`t see the issue?

The issue that obviously vampiric like abilties used by the nightblade wouldn't be criminal. When they should be since Vampiric drain is.

Please tell us how Nightblades and Templars are supposed to use those abilities on Innocents without gettng a bounty?

For what it is worth, I agree that there are plenty of skills from other classes that should class as crimes. Daedric pets for one.

Thevampirenight

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

I think it comes down to this: They want the societal role of Vampire to somehow show up in gameplay. It's a design choice and therefore there's an artificial distinction regardless of the visuals or even power concepts.

When someone signs up to be a Vampire, they want that player to experience that as part of the fantasy. They don't want Vampires -- which hare more a Race than a Class (job) -- to just be another flavour of a Race.

When someone signs up to be a Nightblade, it's not part of the power fantasy to be mistaken for a Vampire. It's more of a Job than a Race.
So whatever similarity you want to draw from their powers, it's considered incidental to these concerns.

Hypnotic gaze isn't a crime yet makes much better sense for it. I had thought Vampiric Drain would be one of the exclusions because of the Nightblade factor. I knew several of the abilties were going to be included to the justice system and they would make sense for it. They did good but Hypnotic Gaze and Vampiric Drain should be flipped with the criminal status effect.
So here is how it should go for the Justice system and makes much more sense to me.
Blood Scion-Crime
Eviscerate -Not a Crime.
Blood Frenzy-Crime
Vampiric Drain-Not a Crime
Hypnotic Gaze-Crime
Mist Form-Crime.

Thevampirenight

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Attacking innocents does give you a bounty if you are seen, so I don`t see the issue?

The issue that obviously vampiric like abilties used by the nightblade wouldn't be criminal. When they should be since Vampiric drain is.

Please tell us how Nightblades and Templars are supposed to use those abilities on Innocents without gettng a bounty?

Nightblade and Templars use them on enemies and hostiles don't get a bounty. Templars and Nightblades use their abilties on innocents get a Bounty now. Vampires use Vampiric Drain used on a hostile equals crime.
I would rather see Stage four be a crime then seeing Vampiric Drain be a crime since its so close to how Strife works. However using vampiric drain on innocents should be a crime. Using it on hostiles should not be. That is common sense.

Thevampirenight

There is another reason for this the lore.
They are breaking the lore on this, The Vampiric Drain and Brain Drain are a form of Absorption spells and anyone can use such magic its not vampire exclusive as these types of spells are part of the Restoration/Mysticism schools. Also known as vampiric spell effects that means anyone and I mean anyone can use these types of spells. Even Weapons can be enchanted with them.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Notes_On_The_Lunar_Forge
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Absorb_Health
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Absorb_Health
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Absorb_Magicka
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Absorb_Fatigue
Example Morrowind Vampire ability. Vampire Touch spell, which Absorbs Health 10-30 points on touch. It will always have a 100% success rate.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Absorb_Health
So that is another reason why Vampiric Drain shouldn't be a crime how is it any different from a absorb health spell? Let me tell you something it isn't.
All it is restoration/mysticism some vampire strains can have the power along with invisibility and both are not vampire exclusive abilties.
Even Priests in Oblivion sold these types of Absorb Spells. So your local priest of Arkay could be using such a spell and it would look similar or even exactly the same as the Vampires ability.
The lore is very flexible but there is only so much flexibility. For Vampiric Drain to be criminal would mean all forms of absorption magic would be as well since technically there would be no distinction between the two. Since it uses the same effects and it is good reason why they should change this.

TheShadowScout

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Is if Vampiric Drain is a crime then Strife a vampiric like spell should be part of the Justice system. Nightblade siphoning abilties should be included...

Once again.

Its NOT the spell.
Its the being a bloodsucking fiend (casting the spell).

The spell just makes the guard look more closely, and if they then see vampirism in action... out come the stakes and garlic chains! Well, not exactly those but... the bounty.

If on the other hand the guard sees a obviously mortal nightblade magicking some blood magic... that's just another human with spells, not a monster among the populace, so... no need to get justice-stabby.

...

IF anything, then you could make a case for all transformed werewolves to be "kill on sight" as well, saying the guards get itching to try out their newly issues anti-lycanthrope silver dagger or something...


BtW, "immersion" would be to have ALL vampires auto-attacked if detected by the city guard, with a detection chance dependent on vampirism level and proximity to a passing NPC, and special auto-detect "inspections" at the city gates (which you'd have to take the shortcut through the outlaw refugee to avoid) unless some "masquerade" skill was toggled that uses some mystic ways to hide the vampirism (like count Ravenwatch obviously does the first time we meet him)
Just sayin.

Thevampirenight

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Is if Vampiric Drain is a crime then Strife a vampiric like spell should be part of the Justice system. Nightblade siphoning abilties should be included...

Once again.

Its NOT the spell.
Its the being a bloodsucking fiend (casting the spell).

The spell just makes the guard look more closely, and if they then see vampirism in action... out come the stakes and garlic chains! Well, not exactly those but... the bounty.

If on the other hand the guard sees a obviously mortal nightblade magicking some blood magic... that's just another human with spells, not a monster among the populace, so... no need to get justice-stabby.

...

IF anything, then you could make a case for all transformed werewolves to be "kill on sight" as well, saying the guards get itching to try out their newly issues anti-lycanthrope silver dagger or something...


BtW, "immersion" would be to have ALL vampires auto-attacked if detected by the city guard, with a detection chance dependent on vampirism level and proximity to a passing NPC, and special auto-detect "inspections" at the city gates (which you'd have to take the shortcut through the outlaw refugee to avoid) unless some "masquerade" skill was toggled that uses some mystic ways to hide the vampirism (like count Ravenwatch obviously does the first time we meet him)
Just sayin.

Then you would have actual cases against actual Elder Scrolls Albinos. As some people could actually have a skin condition that makes them pale. One a priest uses a absorb spell get brutally murdered because they were pale. An innocent person brutally murdered just over a missunderstanding.
Such a policy would get at vampires true but it would get innocents killed because an albino walks into a town,and then brutally murdered by a city guard. The guard makes a mistake and if its found not to be a vampire. Loses his job or gets executed or even hailed a hero while the victim is treated like a monster do to superstition.

Nordic__Knights

This will in pack dueling in open areas or in towns so im ok with it now if they could make sorc pets and warden bear crime to lag / non use of areas ect ect would be removed from towns when trying to port in load times might improve too so yes keep as is and add sorc pets and warden bear next ty @ZOS_RichLambert

TheShadowScout

Thevampirenight wrote: »

An innocent person brutally murdered just over a missunderstanding.

Point one : you just described half the middle ages. You think some inquisitor ever lost their job or suffered consequences for torturing some innocent? You think a town guard got scolded for wrongfully executing a random stranger that made an arse of themselves and gave them the wrong impression? Not unless that stranger was some dukes cousin...

Point two : you -really- think they cannot check for that??? In a world where guards can somehow sense which things are stolen or not? They see a vampy spell, touch their holy symbol of stendarr, mumble some prayer... and see what is stolen or not, or who is just a living mage with a skin condition or a bloodsucking fiend. Or something like that.

All I am saying that lore-wise, vampires are the monsters in disguise, not "innocent people with some extra skills" and tend to get met with fear and stakes whenever they show their ugly faces (play Rivenspire stories again, and take the time to enjoy the conversations...) you will find most "normal" people want to slay every vampire in Akrays name, and the few decent vampires have to struggle to keep up... yes, the Masquerade. And the rulers know there are good vampires, and many tolerate them in secret, but know the general populace would not put up with that if they did it officially... so there we are...