Vampiric Drain should'nt be a Criminal Act, Its lore breaking its also mage magic not just vampire.

bearbelly

idk wrote: »

You are twisting things where. This has to do with the vampire itself casting the drain and not the basis of the spell itself. You are attempting to craft a case to support your incorrect conclusion.

Exactly.
Necromancers, vampires, and werewolves (who also have their skills branded as Criminal Acts in the Greymoor update)
are all considered evil by the general populace.
It is the intrinsic nature of those characters that differentiates their skills from those of regular characters.

Tessitura

Juhasow wrote: »

StormeReigns wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

StormeReigns wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

No god damn skill should be a criminal act, it's annoying and serves no purpose.

I agree. Want to use Blade of Woe on neutral npcs in front of guards and townfolk without issues.
Pickpocket with zero repercussions. Want to use Blastbones on all guards without being attacked - or crit.charge on them with out them getting angry. We should be rewarded the best items for just zoning into an area without working for it, BiS gear soon as we log in, etc...

I think You've missed the point @StormeReigns . I am almost certain OP was talking about using abilities when guards or citizens can see You but You dont use said abilities to attack them.

No point was missed. Self Control, a little forethought and positioning / situational awareness can go a long ways, especially when there is plausibility and probabilities of danger.

Take the venom out of a cobra and what do you get? A belt.

Problem starts when 1 class requires those and others doesn't. And seriously You're talking about "positioning and self awarness" while visiting merchant in the city ? Maybe we also should make dk abilities a criminal act because they can burn our cities by coincidence ? And I fail to see how removing criminal acts from necro is "taking venom out of cobra". You're not taking away necro strenght by that. Quite opposite , You're actually infusing cobra with more venom.

Excuse me, but why would you have trouble talking to a merchant? Just don't cast a spell while you are there. People get super upset over minor inconveniences. To a lot of other people it adds a level of depth they enjoy and that adds to the game for them. Why should your fun be considered more then theirs? If you really dont like a thing, then stop playing it or doing it, problem solved.

And just to be clear, necro is not hindered at all by this. Every bit of hard content can be done safely without getting reported, and the easy stuff is easy enough that you are not going to suffer for not casting that one spell for a fight or two.

Uryel

In Elder Scrolls lore, being a vampire is consistently considered a crime, against Men, Mer and Gods alike. Just the face we currently have at stage 3 and above should by itself be a criminal act.

Dusk_Coven

Uryel wrote: »

In Elder Scrolls lore, being a vampire is consistently considered a crime, against Men, Mer and Gods alike. Just the face we currently have at stage 3 and above should by itself be a criminal act.

Except there are exceptions. Like Cunodir in Summerset at the Lillandril Mages Guild. And of course the Rivenspire questline.
A passive skill could account for this and be lore friendly. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/518933/vampire-criminal-act-skills-passive-known-to-authorities

Raudgrani

So it shouldn't be considered illegal to attack innocent civilians, just because you are a vampire? Makes no sense "lore wise" or any other way whatsoever.

Thevampirenight

This thread isn't about attacking innocents or not. Its about a power that any mage can use. Vampiric Drain typically seems to be more of a offensive combat self heal. This thread has nothing to do with them being abominations or considered evil. But the nature of the magic being not exclusive to vampires to the point a non vampire and a vampire go into a fight both use absorb magic the vampire uses vampiric drain, the mortal mage uses magic that visually looks exactly the same as the vampiric drain and well the vampire has a lesser version of the spell since hes a fledgling and the mage is a powerful mage that has many years of experiance and the vampire dies from it that is one example.
Also most knowledge most common folks would likely have about vampires come from this book.
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Immortal_Blood
Nothing in that book says anything about them being able to absorb health(Vampiric Drain),
Mist form is mentioned though.

This is setting where magic exists and vampires exist but where there is heavy superstition in some areas. Basically they don't use science and have no knowledge of how vampirism would work scientifically so its a lot of superstition and plays into the myth they are reanimated corpses and tied with necromancy when its shown that isn't exactly true in some cases maybe but for the majority no. That means some abilties would be known to be vampiric like mist form but there is little to likely know knowledge on how vampiric magic actually works. Groups like the Mages Guild and the Dawnguard would know. But not common folk and well common folk can be very superstitious.

relentless_turnip

Sorry haven't read it all... It was looong😂
But shouldn't draining someone's life force be a crime?

Raudgrani

Thevampirenight wrote: »

This thread isn't about attacking innocents or not. Its about a power that any mage can use. Vampiric Drain typically seems to be more of a offensive combat self heal. This thread has nothing to do with them being abominations or considered evil. But the nature of the magic being not exclusive to vampires to the point a non vampire and a vampire go into a fight both use absorb magic the vampire uses vampiric drain, the mortal mage uses magic that visually looks exactly the same as the vampiric drain and well the vampire has a lesser version of the spell since hes a fledgling and the mage is a powerful mage that has many years of experiance and the vampire dies from it that is one example.
Also most knowledge most common folks would likely have about vampires come from this book.
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Immortal_Blood
Nothing in that book says anything about them being able to absorb health(Vampiric Drain),
Mist form is mentioned though.

This is setting where magic exists and vampires exist but where there is heavy superstition in some areas. Basically they don't use science and have no knowledge of how vampirism would work scientifically so its a lot of superstition and plays into the myth they are reanimated corpses and tied with necromancy when its shown that isn't exactly true in some cases maybe but for the majority no. That means some abilties would be known to be vampiric like mist form but there is little to likely know knowledge on how vampiric magic actually works. Groups like the Mages Guild and the Dawnguard would know. But not common folk and well common folk can be very superstitious.

It's like legal in most "universes" to use violence, but most worlds have a few restrictions to what you can do, even to "bad people". I could invent some kind of "liver extraction defensive weapon" in real life, but I swear it would be illegal in almost all of the world, even if it was strictly for defensive use.
I find your whole argument kind of weird and... weird. Vampires feed on people, either innocents , or "willing" thralls - more often than not seduced to start with. It's a bit like people in certain forms of slavery or drug abuse, they might "enjoy" the thing right now, but deep down it's still wrong no matter their "choice". Vampires and mortals don't mix well.

Glurin

Thevampirenight wrote: »

This is video from Oblivon if you mind the swearing in the start of it of it you can see what Absorb Health can do only one I can find though. Also the person isn't a vampire. So any mage can do this if they have the knowledge to use a spell like vampiric drain, so its a mage spell as much as it is a vampire one. So how can a spell any mage can do be criminal? A pale stranger casts strife doesn't get a bounty and suddenly gets a bounty from using vampiric drain I don't think so. Since they are both Absorb Health effects. The same type of magic basically.
I'm fine with them making vampire skills criminal but not that one and for the reasons I've listed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciAfVhdzdvE

Oh great. I'm already working on a New Vegas playthrough because I was feeling nostalgic. Now I wanna do Oblivion after that. Thanks a lot.

Thevampirenight

Glurin wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

This is video from Oblivon if you mind the swearing in the start of it of it you can see what Absorb Health can do only one I can find though. Also the person isn't a vampire. So any mage can do this if they have the knowledge to use a spell like vampiric drain, so its a mage spell as much as it is a vampire one. So how can a spell any mage can do be criminal? A pale stranger casts strife doesn't get a bounty and suddenly gets a bounty from using vampiric drain I don't think so. Since they are both Absorb Health effects. The same type of magic basically.
I'm fine with them making vampire skills criminal but not that one and for the reasons I've listed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciAfVhdzdvE

Oh great. I'm already working on a New Vegas playthrough because I was feeling nostalgic. Now I wanna do Oblivion after that. Thanks a lot.

You're Welcome.

Juhasow

Tessitura wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

StormeReigns wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

StormeReigns wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

No god damn skill should be a criminal act, it's annoying and serves no purpose.

I agree. Want to use Blade of Woe on neutral npcs in front of guards and townfolk without issues.
Pickpocket with zero repercussions. Want to use Blastbones on all guards without being attacked - or crit.charge on them with out them getting angry. We should be rewarded the best items for just zoning into an area without working for it, BiS gear soon as we log in, etc...

I think You've missed the point @StormeReigns . I am almost certain OP was talking about using abilities when guards or citizens can see You but You dont use said abilities to attack them.

No point was missed. Self Control, a little forethought and positioning / situational awareness can go a long ways, especially when there is plausibility and probabilities of danger.

Take the venom out of a cobra and what do you get? A belt.

Problem starts when 1 class requires those and others doesn't. And seriously You're talking about "positioning and self awarness" while visiting merchant in the city ? Maybe we also should make dk abilities a criminal act because they can burn our cities by coincidence ? And I fail to see how removing criminal acts from necro is "taking venom out of cobra". You're not taking away necro strenght by that. Quite opposite , You're actually infusing cobra with more venom.

Excuse me, but why would you have trouble talking to a merchant? Just don't cast a spell while you are there. People get super upset over minor inconveniences. To a lot of other people it adds a level of depth they enjoy and that adds to the game for them. Why should your fun be considered more then theirs? If you really dont like a thing, then stop playing it or doing it, problem solved.

And just to be clear, necro is not hindered at all by this. Every bit of hard content can be done safely without getting reported, and the easy stuff is easy enough that you are not going to suffer for not casting that one spell for a fight or two.

I think You're not quite awarehow justice system works. There are NPCs travelling around the world in open space. If You're unlucky enough to fight some mobs while one of those NPCs will be coming nearby or to duel close to him You'll get reward on Your head and You wont be able to speak with merchants in the cities as outlaw. Duelling outside of Bergama can get You that type of reward because there is merchant NPC travelling there sometimes. And if You want depth in Your game there could be just option simillar to "prevent attacking inocents" where You can decide wheter You want to participate in that criminal act mini game or not.

idk

Thevampirenight wrote: »

This thread isn't about attacking innocents or not. Its about a power that any mage can use. Vampiric Drain typically seems to be more of a offensive combat self heal. This thread has nothing to do with them being abominations or considered evil. But the nature of the magic being not exclusive to vampires to the point a non vampire and a vampire go into a fight both use absorb magic the vampire uses vampiric drain, the mortal mage uses magic that visually looks exactly the same as the vampiric drain and well the vampire has a lesser version of the spell since hes a fledgling and the mage is a powerful mage that has many years of experiance and the vampire dies from it that is one example.
Also most knowledge most common folks would likely have about vampires come from this book.
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Immortal_Blood
Nothing in that book says anything about them being able to absorb health(Vampiric Drain),
Mist form is mentioned though.

This is setting where magic exists and vampires exist but where there is heavy superstition in some areas. Basically they don't use science and have no knowledge of how vampirism would work scientifically so its a lot of superstition and plays into the myth they are reanimated corpses and tied with necromancy when its shown that isn't exactly true in some cases maybe but for the majority no. That means some abilties would be known to be vampiric like mist form but there is little to likely know knowledge on how vampiric magic actually works. Groups like the Mages Guild and the Dawnguard would know. But not common folk and well common folk can be very superstitious.

You are still ignoring the glaring fact that a vampire using that skill is exposing themselves as a vampire. I realize this is an inconvenient fact but it is the reason your idea here is pretty much wrong no matter how much you try to twist things.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

I mean.

Using any offensive spell on an innocent can incur a bounty I thought?

As for legal combat in towns? Does the illegal mechanic apply to Necromancers in duels?

As for Overworld questing? Light attacks are all you need anyway. Especially in guarded cities.