Bards Guild/Bards Skill Line Discussion

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

I have some important questions for you...

• Would you like a Bards Guild?
• Would you like a Bard skill line?
• Would you like to craft/equip instruments like weapons?
• Would you like to explore Tamriel to discover new songs and instruments?

I would! Each instrument could function the same, just using their own unique animations and sounds. Skills could include:

• There are no light or heavy attacks, instead, holding ATK will play a generic tune that increases nearby allies dmg until the button is released, or you are interrupted.
• Invigorating Beat: Increases max stamina by X for X seconds (morphs: increases buffed amount or changes to regen instead).
• Inspiring Melody: increases max magicka by X for X seconds (morphs: increases buffed amount or changes to regen instead).
• Soothing Harmony: increases max health by X for X seconds (morphs: increases buffed amount or changes to regen instead).
• Ancient Lullaby: causes your target to fall asleep for X seconds. If attacked while sleeping, they will receive critical dmg and be knocked off balance.
• Forgotten Chord: restores X magicka or stamina (whichever resource is lower).
• Ultimate-Song of the Fallen: This plays an entirely different song on a loop until cancelled or interrupted. While played, nearby fallen allies will rise once again with 25% in all resources.

All skills play a riff that goes well with the generic tune, so its like one continuous song, and you can purchase new songs from the guild, or find new songs, that are equipped in the off hand.

Perhaps you use magicka or stamina for this or that skill. Maybe one requires both magicka AND stamina! While you are holding your regular song (atk) it steadily drains stamina.

While attacking you can only walk, and skills are executed while standing still.

Just some thoughts thrown in a thread. Lets here yours! How would you like to see Bards in ESO?

Royaji

I don't care and believe development time can be spent on better things... but why not?
As long as its similar to DB or TG and has no active combat skills, sure.
Hell no.
Absolutely not.

Starlight_Knight

Yes i love bards, was so disappointed we didn't get that announcement considering we're getting Solitude the home of the bards college.

Ratzkifal

Bards in the Elder Scrolls are not like Bards in DnD. Musical magic is not a thing in Tamriel.

I would prefer if we got a Bard personality instead where our character can play any or a couple of songs on any intrument with new emotes. It would also be great if in that personality, playing a song emote wouldn't get interrupted while walking (unless when you enter combat, dodgeroll or sneak of course).

It could also be a guild but due to the limitations mentioned, it would have to be a non-combat guild skill line of sorts like DB and Thievesguild. The only possibility to allow active skills would have them be similar to War horn, as in them only serving as a signal and morale boost, but not silly things like making enemies fall asleep in battle.

IVoo

Absolutely, sign me up. I love bards, and it was one of my favorite classes in both Dark Age of Camelot and Rift. In general, support classes rock and resonate with me personally.

Gnortranermara

Demand for Bard is very, very low (even lower than Vampire Lord). A Bard's College guild line would be fine if it's limited to some situational group buff skills (stuff like Warhorn). However, there are much more pressing priorities that the team should be focusing on. Bard shouldn't even be on their radar for years to come.

Polling shows the real, overwhelming player demand for a Spellsword weapon and missing staff weapons (Alteration, Illusion, Conjuration) to fill significant gaps in playstyle choices. A proper Spellsword weapon option (1h+focus or whatever) is absolutely essential for melee mag DPS. The remaining staff weapons could fulfill numerous functions, like improving QOL for non-NB characters doing TG/DB stealth questing with the Illusion staff, creating some universal pet options with the Conjuration staff, and making mag tanking actually fun and viable with an Alteration staff. These are the most-requested features, and they should be THE top combat dev priority in upcoming patch cycles.

MasterSpatula

"Toss a Crown to your Vestige."

Sure, I'm game.

Freakin_Hytte

If you want to play a magical bard go and play dnd, bards in Elder scrolls aren't magical, they are just people who have learned how to play instruments.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Demand for Bard is very, very low (even lower than Vampire Lord). A Bard's College guild line would be fine if it's limited to some situational group buff skills (stuff like Warhorn). However, there are much more pressing priorities that the team should be focusing on. Bard shouldn't even be on their radar for years to come.

Polling shows the real, overwhelming player demand for a Spellsword weapon and missing staff weapons (Alteration, Illusion, Conjuration) to fill significant gaps in playstyle choices. A proper Spellsword weapon option (1h+focus or whatever) is absolutely essential for melee mag DPS. The remaining staff weapons could fulfill numerous functions, like improving QOL for non-NB characters doing TG/DB stealth questing with the Illusion staff, creating some universal pet options with the Conjuration staff, and making mag tanking actually fun and viable with an Alteration staff. These are the most-requested features, and they should be THE top combat dev priority in upcoming patch cycles.

Honestly? I would prefer bards just be a personality, and there be a new mechanic added so that RP-ers can enjoy being a bard, without combat. Music pages could be found just like motifs and such, and a quest line like in Skyrim, all that jazz. But plenty of people also like the idea of a Bard class, hence this post: thinking through my keyboard is a frequent pass time lol.

I would love a spell sword option, and was actually going to make another thread about weapons...
Allow staffs to be one handed (so you can have sword or shield in other hand). Make quivers their own gear, with options for regular arrows, elemental arrows... Crossbows even? I always say I love this game, and I do, but being a long time ES fan, it feels kinda like diet Elder Scrolls. But hey, this is an mmo, not a single player rpg. I am very pleased with the crossover

As far as spells go, I was upset they crammed them into classes/weapons. However, lore wise, it would make sense. Unless I am recalling things incorrectly, magic is still being studied/discovered? The mages guild hasn't established the schools of magic yet (destruction, illusion, conjuration, alteration, etc.)

Not to mention, its like every class has unique magical skills... so a magic bard isn't too hard to believe. Skyrim, in fact, supports the possibility of a bard possessing power: ever heard of a thu-um? Words, in certain languages, hold power.

luen79rwb17_ESO

I want a mime skill line! That's for sure next year's chapter following the steps of this artifact gimmick we're getting this year!

Lixiviant

As long as they include a dance off with the Bard skill line! Sign me up!

Nemesis7884

id love a new class as waŕden and necro are a bit meh for me (id rather have a were-bear tank transformation for warden and a persistent pet for necro). Nothing against new interpretation of classes but i like eso's way less than their traditional counterparts...

a bards college skill line and 1h + spell would be fun too...

I see room for a support oriented bard class that isnt also thematically by others...

Bards major group buff could be major heroism which fits and isnt used often....

The 3 skill lines could be: Damage: "Swashbuckler" focused on debuffing and disabling enemies (breach, fracture vulnerability, offbalance, stun); "Herald" the tanking line focused on using and providing group synergies and the healing line "spellsinger" with a focus on buffing the group (courage, heroism etc).

Tessitura

I honestly find bard classes obnoxious. Mostly in D&D but also in video games depending on how they are done. So personally I really don't want a bard class. But I am also not here to police anyone's fun.

I would like to point out though, that the lore of the Warden is very bardic in nature, so you kind of already have one, even if it doesn't play or feel like one, the lore fits it so ZoS is very unlikely to make a actual bard, especially since bard as a class in the game as nothing to do with -musical magic-. As far as I know there is no musical magic in the Elder Scrolls either. But that didn't stop them from making the Dragon Knight instead of just a knight, cause knights aren't cool enough I guess?

Commancho

Bards in TES are illusionists and adventurers, not singers or whatever. Yes, they are artists, but it's their hobby, not combat style, so while bard class makes no sense, then bard guild would be much better choice. Anyway I don't care, either quick performance fix or they can stop to add any content as well.

Wandering_Immigrant

I like support roles so yes.

No attack skills just buffs and debuffs. All abilities channeled and rather than having a flat cost to cast would have a per second cost, any action other than walking would cancel them.

There could a song that boosts max stats, and or stat recovery. A song that grants major heroism, another for major protection, another that inflicts major vulnerability, another for major maim, basically all the majors that aren't automatically built in to every build, and maybe some little extra secondary effects thrown in.

All buff songs would effect you and up to 11 allies, and basically be used to set up bursts and ultimate dumps and to get through heavy damage phases of bosses.

I see it as more of a skill line than a class since it would be rather difficult soloing without any attack skills, though it would be kind of fun having to come up with a solo build that has to rely on only weapon and guild skills for damage.

Edit: also, bards don't have to be literally "magical" to pump up allies and demoralize enemies. Music has been used this way in real life since the beginning of time and we don't even have magic let alone magical musicians here on Earth.

Curious_Death

Toss a LAG to your Player
Oh, studio of programmers
Oh, studio of programmers, ooooh
Toss a BUG to your Player
Oh, studio of programmers!
A friend of currency
oooohhh

and give another month to players who paid, for this crap .. (eso+)

TheShadowScout

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

How would you like to see Bards in ESO?

Been there, posted that: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387560/additional-guild-ideas-mk-ii

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Bards in the Elder Scrolls are not like Bards in DnD.

True.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Musical magic is not a thing in Tamriel.

False.
Magic is magic in Tamriel, true enough... but magic doesn't care if you chant a spell, or sing it. Or play it on an instrument, like for example the "War Horn" ultimate, or some dwemer tonal artifacts.

So, yeah, IF the powers that be want it, the lore would support them expanding this concept into a whole guild sized "musical magic" skill line...

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

If you want to play a magical bard go and play dnd, bards in Elder scrolls aren't magical, they are just people who have learned how to play instruments.

...and have a mix of rogue and magical skills. Just look at what "bards" got in earlier TES games:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Classes#Bard
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Classes
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Bard
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes#Bard
So, in the elder scrolls setting, everyone has always been able to learn some magic if they really put their minds to it, and the "bards" seen as character classes in some earlier TES games were just that - charming scoundrels with a wide mix of "a little bit of both" rogeish and magical abilities, focussing on social interaction and storytelling.

But as I keep saying, IF the developers -want- do make something more of them... they could. It would be a magical tradition doomed to be forgotten when the mages guild established their "schools of magic" system in the coming centuries, as everyone then learns whatever (like in other TES games) instead of letting them be tied to the less flexible magical traditions of the second era... but it would not clash with any established TES lore.

Commancho wrote: »

Bards in TES are illusionists and adventurers, not singers or whatever. Yes, they are artists, but it's their hobby, not combat style, so while bard class makes no sense, then bard guild would be much better choice.

Agreed.
In TES lore, "bard" is a profession much like "tailor", not exactly a combat class like "knight" or "mage"...
Even IF a "spellsong" idea came to ESO, it would -still- make way more sense to portray them as guild like the Psijic order rather then a standalone class... which IMO is always the better idea anyhow, because then people whose characters fit the bill might pick up the guild, and the rest could pass it by. Especially since even with a "musical magic" effect collection the bard skills would have to be low-effect continous support type skills, not exactly combat-worthy damage dealing effects... (at least not without a room-filling dwemer organ behind them!) and so in TES lore, "bards" who get into a fight tend to drop their lute (or at least sling it over their back, instruments are fragile and expensive after all) and draw their sword...

But... we had all the nasty arguments a while back as I recall: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/507848/an-fyi-about-bards-in-the-elder-scrolls-universe/p1

Nemesis7884

I think one of the issues with people disliking the bard theme / idea might also be that they only think of a stereotypical classic fantasy bard, but i think a bard can also be a lot of other things like a

war cry screaming nord / barbarian

a sergeant yelling commands and inspiring his troops

a war priest frenzying up the zealots around him

a druid like spell singer inluencing nature around her

etc etc... i think you can be very creative in character design with the concept of a class that supports, buffs, inspires or despairs people around her

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

What if....

1. Bards served a smaller purpose, not as a class. Add songs that grant buffs like food and drink, and are slotable items (sheet music). Then you could find songs like motifs, even add them to the new antiquities system. I often find myself playing an instrument emote while waiting on other players, like at the start of a dungeon for example. Then Bard can have a simple skill line like the other crafting skill lines. Passives that boost duration of buffs, and morphs to prioritize certain stats over the other, so bards can be unique.

2. Or Instruments became a minigame. I would still want to incorporate performance elements, like attracting npcs to come and listen, and maybe even tip, so you can make a little gold. I finally remembered what game subconsciously inspired this idea. Anyone play Two Worlds 2?

Example of a music mini game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGvuOBo5rQU

I wouldn't expect something exactly like this, but a mini game of sorts, with the option to select a song and earn gold from your performance. Maybe just your standard press certain buttons (directional) to the beat.

jkmooney

A Bard quild that allows gaining of buffs and debuff as well as "charisma based" skills like persuasion, bluff, seduce, etc. would be fun

StormeReigns

Now. There needs to be a guild solely built around all Stamina Nord DKs in the Champion Costume clogging up every major city sporting their guild name, rocking their lutes outside the banks.

The Bardbarians

InaMoonlight

No thanks, we already tried that with LOTRO and several other games, if you want to play a class from another game, go play it. (Sorry grumpy-mode) THIS IS ESO!

Dusk_Coven

How about a Bard Skill Line that's all about actually PERFORMING instead of combat?

Each passive skill unlocks a different type of minigame to reflect a type of performance (e.g., playing an instrument, performing a trick). You unlock what type of minigame/performance you want your Bard to do.
The more you invest in the skill line, the more intricate your performance can be (but with a longer and hence harder minigame).

Your performances channel an AOE around you and over that time the game records how many NPCs were in there ("watched your performance") and whether there was an overlapping performance that was complementary (partner?) or competitive (rival).
Partners improve your performance slightly (your sidekick!). Rivals improve each other's performance more IF you are both score approximately the same (interesting grudge match!).

Based on the final calculation you get some loot -- mostly a few coins, but sometimes something interesting. Maybe based off the local Pickpocketing table even.

Nemesis7884

...

Nemesis7884

There is musical magic in ESO - its called tonal magic or tonal architecture



sorry for double post, huge issue editing post

InaMoonlight

Trouble is not just, how are they gonna make a singing voice for each class, and each voicechoice? That would be alot of money to even get going, sadly (I would love for my khajiit to be screeching red diamond, or sounding like Malukah though lol)
But a class for it? Oh gosh no, would be nice if we could /lutereddiamond with voice though, or even just PICK a song to play...

But a class, please no All or nothing.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

I would be happy with just instruments, no singing. We already have singers in taverns and such. @Dusk_Coven love your idea. Get a group for a full performance, or duke it out like a play off haha.

Maybe players can dance in the aoe to boost score and likelihood of attracting npcs to listen/tip.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

jkmooney wrote: »

A Bard quild that allows gaining of buffs and debuff as well as "charisma based" skills like persuasion, bluff, seduce, etc. would be fun

Bards can be so much more than just musicians! There could be daily quests to retrieve instruments, music, or even gigs!

Glacku808

I am so here for a Bard class/skill line

Don't care too much how they do it.

Though I see a healer/buffer aesthetic

HappyLittleTree

I would love a bard inspired skill line, but what I would love more is a skill or passive to play any instrument, basically you can just use your keyboard or controller to play different notes. I'd imagine that some players would form in game bands like they did in LOTRO. Or like the perform skill in ffxiv just a fun little gimmick. Heck if they wanted they could even monetize different instrument I would gladly pay for a playable Vossa-Sattl

TheShadowScout

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

How about a Bard Skill Line that's all about actually PERFORMING instead of combat?...

I would -love- to see that!

It could be a crafting skill line... that does not craft anything -physical-, but crafts a "perfomance" - and you get a daily writ for performing (say, along the lines of "do successful performances in three different inns in those three regions", kinda like the TG "sent to pilfer" mission board questings...)

And it could have interactions with other crafting skill lines, like... advance the bard skill line to craft musical instruments or other performance-enhancing stuff with woodworking or jeweler, which then will increase wour rewards for performances...