How to deal with the spies at Cyrodiil

Levianna

I am experienced raid leader for my alliance and already know the ways of how one could spy in such groups, tho one scenario concerns me: a player with 2 accounts at 2 computers/consoles (so IP unrecognizable!) who enters a raid with one account in my alliance and at the same time gives info about our movements via another account in enemy alliance at another computer.

How to report it, and how is it possible to track it by ZoS? That person could also have VPN with secure core possibility turned on at their another account at another computer, what complicated the monitoring system even more...

Levianna

Correction: complicates, not complicated*

OrphanHelgen

This is where the game have to chose between being competitive or just social experience.
It's many years ago since zenimax found a competitive game to be too much work, so they went all in on cosmetics and community.
Long story short, nothing to do about it I think.

biminirwb17_ESO

Quick answer is you can't really do anything.

IP address can be used by multiple accounts, what if more than one family member wants to play?

The only way to stop it is for the PVP community to call it out, don't hold your breath.

How do you think that FC was found so easily.

Synaki

There is no second account needed. Discord/TS is a thing. Anyway, I think there is no point in reporting, unless you are sure it somehow breaks the ToS. ZOS is likely just happy to have 1 more account playing.

Pauls

This can only be solved by playing with trusted guildmates

esotoon

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

How do you think that FC was found so easily.

Given the very limited number of places around a Keep where you can place FCs, it is hardly surprising when any FC is taken down quickly. It is only a matter of some experience to know exactly where all those spots are for any Keep/Outpost on the map.

MajBludd

Pretty crazy to think somebody will go to that extent just to get an edge playing a game.

LuxLunae

Levianna wrote: »

I am experienced raid leader for my alliance and already know the ways of how one could spy in such groups, tho one scenario concerns me: a player with 2 accounts at 2 computers/consoles (so IP unrecognizable!) who enters a raid with one account in my alliance and at the same time gives info about our movements via another account in enemy alliance at another computer.

How to report it, and how is it possible to track it by ZoS? That person could also have VPN with secure core possibility turned on at their another account at another computer, what complicated the monitoring system even more...

What can a spy do in ESO? tell you of your location and how much people in your group?....that's all...

In cyro, you'll be hard pressed finding a group of people who don't gravitate towards the BIG BATTLES... nobody is going to give two craps about what you do before a keep is lit...

Nobody is going to give 2 craps if you quickly take the keep...

You can tell these guys in the zone chat exactly what will happen and how.. and they still won't give 2 craps...They will gravitate towards the larger battles...

You may think you are being spied on when there is a crap load of people coming to what you thought was a surprise location... however, it's more likely someone already saw you heading there or guessed your movements when you quickly took one keep...

There is not much strategy in cyro...Its ZERG V ZERG....that's why I was the few who loved the over powered siege bug. Newer players could fend off ANY zerg with a siege and it brought a new element of play...

biminirwb17_ESO

esotoon wrote: »

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

How do you think that FC was found so easily.

Given the very limited number of places around a Keep where you can place FCs, it is hardly surprising when any FC is taken down quickly. It is only a matter of some experience to know exactly where all those spots are for any Keep/Outpost on the map.

Who mentioned Keeps?

TheFM

MajBludd wrote: »

Pretty crazy to think somebody will go to that extent just to get an edge playing a game.

Bad losers are bad losers.

Honestly I usually call them out , block them and blacklist them. All you really can do.

IndorilArwynLlethran

Next step - allow only one Alliance to be logged in at a time, so Firehearts raids can safely PVD?

ItsMeToo

How dare someone bring Real Life Spying into a game. What is this world coming to?

Salthy

I tested this myself by following some of the steps you indicated in your topic and enhancing them some.

I bought a second computer and monitor to test the potential of spying on the other faction by using two different accounts. I then shopped at Ikea to acquire more furniture to accommodate this set-up. My living room currently looks like SpaceX HQ.

Next step was to figure out how to play two independent characters simultaneously without breaking cover. I equipped my spy character with sunglasses and a hat, and the "read newspaper" personality. I then bought 2 bionic arms on the internet, which are capable of spamming light attacks and rezzing at the the nearest keep, two essential beginner player functionalities. So far this character has been invited to 3 EP raiding guilds and nobody has raised any suspicions.

So yeah, I agree. Spies could be a real problem in Cyro.

Iskiab

MajBludd wrote: »

Pretty crazy to think somebody will go to that extent just to get an edge playing a game.

Sad thing is people do some pretty crazy things like this.

In other games I’d just embrace it. No anon, just let it happen. Cyro is a pvp game so letting people know where you are so pvp can happen isn’t the end of the world.

If you focus on stuff like this instead of actual pvp it’s just a distraction.

esotoon

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Who mentioned Keeps?

Even in open world the same applies. If you could put up an FC anywhere you'd have a point, but no matter where you go the possibilities are limited by terrain.

Synaki

MajBludd wrote: »

Pretty crazy to think somebody will go to that extent just to get an edge playing a game.

Not at all - If I've learned anything playing (other) games it is that a great many self-proclaimed pvpers will go to any length to make sure they can't possibly lose.

TheFM

Iskiab wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

Pretty crazy to think somebody will go to that extent just to get an edge playing a game.

Sad thing is people do some pretty crazy things like this.

In other games I’d just embrace it. No anon, just let it happen. Cyro is a pvp game so letting people know where you are so pvp can happen isn’t the end of the world.

If you focus on stuff like this instead of actual pvp it’s just a distraction.

Yeh, pc EU no cp DC faction will log into their ad alts, hyper inflate our pop so we can't get low pop bonus, and have their friends log into ep so DC can get low pop bonus. It's sad really

Karmen

Trolls are more annoying than spies, in cyrodiil.

Most of the time, there is nothing to spy tbh. My alliance is scouting well and communicating well (aldmeri dominion).
You want to attack secretly somewhere and they're here ? Maybe it was just someone scouting the keep.
Maybe someone saw your group riding toward a direction and said it on zone chat.

Spies. omg. who is doing that in 2020 ? You really dont need that.

Thevampirenight

Maybe pay the spies to tell you whats going on in the other alliances? Pay more then what the other side is paying maybe they will become loyal to your side.
In all seriousness I don't know how you can deal with this. I don't even know if its a bannable offense. However maybe consider asking the spies to act as spies for your cause as well. Could do a type of I spy type of situlation and have a bit of fun with it. *Shrugs*

markulrich1966

these kind of spies are impossible to detect, but I predicted that they will be common once faction lock would be established.

So instead of easy to detect spies you now have difficult ones.

Can it be solved? No, because those requesting to "remove" them somehow ignores that spying is an essential tactic in warfare.
You don't even need a second account, as Synaki wrote, discord is the common solution for it.

The whole alliance lock request /anti spy hysteria is simply based in wishfull thinking with a portion of nationalist propaganda phrases ("loyalty"), not something that would actually solve something.

Long_Distance

I think your problem only makes sense from a perspective where you care about your alliance standing. Many people don't give a damn.
And as a result especially groups like FC would probably actually welcome if their location is being reported in the opposing faction zone chat (that's why they like to take a random scroll and run around with it for as long as they can). Also, many people then would actually specifically avoid the said location, as it gets old chasing a ball through a keep. Much better fights to be had elsewhere.

So, the scenario you set up can work both ways, either attract or push off enemy players.

If you're a bad zerg who just wants to PvD in peace you admittely have a problem, though.

yRaven

Levianna wrote: »

a player with 2 accounts at 2 computers/consoles (so IP unrecognizable!) who enters a raid with one account in my alliance and at the same time gives info about our movements via another account in enemy alliance at another computer.

Aaaaaaaah, Godslayer? Gryphon heart? Pls... On PVP we have the true end-game

DivineFirstYOLO

Nobody cares where bad zerglings are going and what they are doing. That's why spying is not a problem.

TheFM wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

Pretty crazy to think somebody will go to that extent just to get an edge playing a game.

Sad thing is people do some pretty crazy things like this.

In other games I’d just embrace it. No anon, just let it happen. Cyro is a pvp game so letting people know where you are so pvp can happen isn’t the end of the world.

If you focus on stuff like this instead of actual pvp it’s just a distraction.

Yeh, pc EU no cp DC faction will log into their ad alts, hyper inflate our pop so we can't get low pop bonus, and have their friends log into ep so DC can get low pop bonus. It's sad really

Yeah right, how often did AD get low pop bonus when alliances where locked? About 0 times. To blame it now on other factions is hypocrisy. Stop zerging so hard and join the underdogs if you want low pop bonus.

Levianna

Insightfull and all right, thanks for the answers/comments!
"Holes" in the "law" always existed and always will seem so, except someone doesn't invent the other people mind reading machine. 😀
At least that's what makes pvp less boring (read predictible) - if we watch it from positive perspective - but real time Fox channel scenario! 😎

technohic

esotoon wrote: »

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

How do you think that FC was found so easily.

Given the very limited number of places around a Keep where you can place FCs, it is hardly surprising when any FC is taken down quickly. It is only a matter of some experience to know exactly where all those spots are for any Keep/Outpost on the map.

Pretty much sums it up. It's the price paid by wrangling up just anybody to zerg empty keeps.

I'm not sold that it's a common thing; but I have told people not in our group some far off keep when they started asking before. I both felt bad and was highly entertained when the 1 guy started their assault solo on an enemy trikeep

There are a lot of players to go around though that watch keeps or can stumble upon a camp you think is well hidden.

MishMash

Competition of all kinds has spies to gather intelligence on their opponents. It just is part of life and in-game. To somewhat combat the issue it would require a group of tested and trusted individuals in private comms. Even then there will always be stealthy enemies out there (that you did not even see) that will catch you in the act or spot you on your way to an objective, and report it to their faction.

I am friendly with several people that play different factions, and most of them switch factions for each new campaign. Just one example -- they did tell me their faction is about to attack one of our keeps along with info on estimated numbers of the enemy, and tactics! Why? They did not agree with their factions high numbers and that hitting us 10 to 1, was not challenging enough which bored them. They wanted me to alert my faction to bring more to the fight.

My point is that all factions have traitors/spies, and various reasons as to why they do what they do. Sadly, we will not stop it.

BackStabeth

Levianna wrote: »

I am experienced raid leader for my alliance and already know the ways of how one could spy in such groups, tho one scenario concerns me: a player with 2 accounts at 2 computers/consoles (so IP unrecognizable!) who enters a raid with one account in my alliance and at the same time gives info about our movements via another account in enemy alliance at another computer.

How to report it, and how is it possible to track it by ZoS? That person could also have VPN with secure core possibility turned on at their another account at another computer, what complicated the monitoring system even more...

Lol, if someone is that freakishly obsessed with PvP, then you don't want to be engaging in PvP anyway. That is ludicrous, seriously, are there people who PvP that obsessed with PvP on ESO? Really? What a joke!

ESO PvP is not serious PvP, it's a joke. After almost exclusively playing PvP in MMOs for over 20 years, I can honestly say that PvP in ESO is not even close to being even mediocre. Next people will be talking about being swatted.

It's ESO, I seriously doubt anyone is so serious about PvP that they are going to invest the time, effort and energy it would take to "spy" hahahaha. Really, what benefit would there be? They don't get your gear, or anything of any significant value, so what in the world would be the point?

Kartalin

Best thing to do is just not worry about it. You and your group keep doing the best you can and just enjoy the game. If you're genuinely worried about scroll trolls just make sure someone from your group grabs it first if you can.

I've seen tons of people getting angry in zone chat because of "spies" real or imagined. Typically someone from the other factions will happen to be in the right place at the right time. See that empty field near the keep you just rode out of? There's about 10 opposing nightblades from both factions stealthed up waiting to Xv1 any hapless solo player that wanders their way.

doomette

Kartalin wrote: »

I've seen tons of people getting angry in zone chat because of "spies" real or imagined.

Or sometimes in group chat, oh boy that was awkward.
Back when I had just started to get into PVP, I got a group invite while assisting in a keep defense. Now I never really sought out groups myself, preferring to be awful on my own as to not drag anyone down with me, but I didn’t want to be impolite and wasn’t sure about proper Cyro etiquette in this situation, so I accepted.
The first part was okay, learned a bunch of new stuff and thought the leader was pretty good at herding a bunch of us randos into doing something cooperative and productive. Then after a failed keep assault, oh my did he start getting really paranoid and went on and on about spies foiling his plans. Awesome first Cyro group experience, let me tell you. 😬

Waynerx8

MajBludd wrote: »

Pretty crazy to think somebody will go to that extent just to get an edge playing a game.

Because they have --ck all going on their lives, must be good at something I suppose.