Animation canceling - forum war

Tigerseye

should go

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Well, they could make more things, that are little more than passives, unslotted (or give them their own specific secondary type slot, maybe).

Was looking at Bird of Prey, today.

Alcast recommends you (as Warden) slot that on both bars...

All it is, in terms of an ability you activate, is a speed boost.

You have it slotted for the passive 8% DPS boost, not really for the speed boost.

Total waste of a slot you could use for a far more pro-active active ability.

Where is the outcry about stuff like that making the game too easy?

Doesnt Change anything.
There will Always be a most efficient way to do dps, thats what a Rotation and a build are. Whatever you do, those are never going to go away.
And whether you are rotating between 6,8 or 10 abilities hardly makes a difference in difficulty, we´ve been in the dot patch where 9 Slots were active dps abilities and the 10th Slot was an actively cast buff, still didnt make the game harder.

But, people are arguing that the reason they want AC/weaving to remain, is because clicking a mouse button, or key, in between skills makes the game far less easy than it would otherwise be.

I mean, I know that is a pretty ridiculous suggestion, as (connection/lag notwithstanding) it's not exactly hard, but that is their reasoning for keeping it.

Maintaining the skill ceiling, basically.

So, I'm saying, why aren't people also insisting that every single skill on your bars is always a proactive one and not, basically, little more than a glorified passive?

Or is it more that they hope that brand new players simply won't know about animation cancelling/weaving (as opposed to slotted skill options) and so, will be easier to gank?

Please say it isn't so...

Agenericname

should stay

Lysette wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

“It’s a glitch”
“It’s a glitch”
“gLitChHhH”

You have zero argument and contributed nothing worth of value for this discussion. It’s not just me who are sick of you. It’s literally everyone who argued with you lmfao. You’re like a flat Earther, seriously...

I don't get why you are trigger by me saying it is a glitch. The developers themselves said it was, and they could not fix it. So they embrace it.


What the heck is wrong with the truth? It was a glitch, they could not fix it. They tried too and failed. So instead of banning everyone for doing said exploit. They was force to accept it as part of the game.


That is a fact, that is what happen. To say that it was not a glitch, why did they attempt to fix it? Why did they say it was not intended?

I don't understand your logic at all. Some dude even showed proof of the developers saying it was not intended, and that still was not good enough. You posted a video of the developers saying they accept it. What choice did they have when they failed to fix it?

Please explain to me if they got rid of AC how it would work if lets say you press an ability then switch bars, does the ability not go off or do you not switch bars? same with roll dodge, lets say u press vigor then immediately roll dodge what would happen? Because if they simply didnt go off it'd be the same as cast time ultimates that feel awful. Im seeing a lot of campaigning against AC but no real answers about how it would work if it was removed.

I would think if you cancel the animation for the attack you cancel the attack. So instant blocks would still exist, but the attack that was canceled would do no damage.

So basically itl be like the cast time on dawnbreaker and onslaught that everyone absolutely hates but on every ability. Sounds greaaaaat....

The more exclusionary the combat system, the less people will utilize the content that depends on that combat system. I just don’t want this game to turn into wow where the combat became so exclusionary they had to make multiple difficulty versions of everything to justify the budget for them.

If you love ac then fine, just do not expect much trial or pvp dlcs, there is no audience for it because the combat system is restricting participation.

If they removed AC I'd be removing myself from the game pretty quick tbh. I'd rather no DLC.

So not a target customer then.

The amount of people doing trials, pvp, etc is at an all time low. They just got godslayer on consoles and the amount of people who got it on pc is pretty minimal. It’s the casual player who is keeping the lights on.

You may not want more content but I do. I want the game to grow and the combat system is the main hinderance to that growth. So zos (if they were to read this [they won’t]) has a choice to make, make combat and content for the masses, or make content for people like you who doesn’t want to give them money.

but then why ZOS is nonstop creating content, achievs like this?
how about ZOS currently want people to try something harder, to try work on their gameplay if they want to get these rewards which are are not something "MUST HAVE" for everyone

what if ZOS want their players to grow by addiing such content and it it "tools" via new sets making more power creep - giving more power less exp players also - but then most players here are or to ignorant to actually put an work at themselves to get these rewards and are to lazy to even try train to be better players for this content


maybe He is not a "not target customer" and people put their visions at ZOS as he is "not target"...if somoene like himm was not a target then again...why ZOS every time release an dlc it is on such high lvl? and yet we have people doing it and people who just doesnt care about it and ofc people complaining about it because they are to lazy, to ignorant to actually put work to train their gameplay if they want rewards behind this content

ZOS runs the game to make money - making their core audience do things they don't like will not lead to more income for them but less - they are not going to harm casuals, because it takes them an eternity to achieve anything due to time constraints, which means they are playing over a longer period, most likely with ESO+ active and they might as well buy a lot more from the crown store. To make these customers unhappy with the game is loosing money if not suicide.

I doubt the majority if the casuals are playing in content where weaving lights makes a substantial difference.

On the whole animation canceling is larger than just weaving light attacks. In many ways animation canceling is more forgiving toward casuals and lower CP players in more difficult content. A tank in vet BRF using a heavy and suddenly needing to block. A healer using a heavy to restore resources and suddenly needing to cast a shield or emergency heal.

Casuals benefit from animation canceling on the whole as much as anyone else does. Most people with an axe to grind is about the DPS aspect of it.

At a lower level it makes quite a difference if you weave or not - but new players are often not even using food or drink and are often clueless - AC is not something which is common knowledge among them. That is why overland content has to be so easy - otherwise they might leave before learning abut it.

We're not talking about the same people. To run vBRF you would need to be at least 300 CP. Not new, but also without the resource management as damage mitigation that my characters have. They don't have to know what it is or even understand in order for it to be useful. They hit block and it works.

I wasn't weaving light attacks at all until well past 400CP. It makes very little difference outside of group content and in some cases very little in group content.

Shantu

Personally I don't care for the concept. Why have animation in the first place if you're going to allow it to be canceled? But I think we're a little to far down the rabbit hole at this point and people should get over it and move on. It's here to stay.

Sanguinor2

should stay

Tigerseye wrote: »

But, people are arguing that the reason they want AC/weaving to remain, is because clicking a mouse button, or key, in between skills makes the game far less easy than it would otherwise be.

I mean, I know that is a pretty ridiculous suggestion, as (connection/lag notwithstanding) it's not exactly hard, but that is their reasoning for keeping it.

Maintaining the skill ceiling, basically.

So, I'm saying, why aren't people also insisting that every single skill on your bars is always a proactive one and not, basically, little more than a glorified passive?

Or is it more that they hope that brand new players simply won't know about animation cancelling/weaving (as opposed to slotted skill options) and so, will be easier to gank?

Please say it isn't so...

It doesnt matter how many active abilities you have on your bar. It changes very Little in Terms of difficulty. I´d even argue that the dot patch where there were only active abilities on everyones bar was one of the, if not the easiest patch in Terms of effort for dps.

That being said, your last 2 paragraphs are quite absurd, new Players will be relatively easy to gank no matter their Knowledge of Animation cancelling or weaving simply because they dont have experience, most likely bad builds with very Little survivability and most likely no idea how to react if they survive the Opening burst. Why even bring that up in the first place?

Starlock

OTHER - animation cancelling is an essential component of many games, including Elder Scrolls Online. However, as an essential component of many games it should be well-designed and create intuitive, fluid gameplay. Elder Scrolls Online does not yet meet that benchmark, therefore the implementation of animation canceling in this game needs to be adjusted until it reaches that standard.

Edited to add: Basically, many of us who are painted as "against" animation canceling aren't really against it and don't want it removed... but rather we want it refined and changed to make more sense. I want what's happening on my screen to be a more accurate reflection of what the game is calculating behind the scenes. If I cancel an ability, I want the ability to to actually be cancelled because logically, that's what you would expect to happen. Supposedly, some of this disjunction is getting fixed next patch with better animations and such, but I can't really test that until it drops on console.

Carespanker

should stay

My first and only problem with AC has always been that it's not taught. 95% of the people who play this game can't play the game to the fullest because they don't know how to AC+weave. Do you understand how embarrassing it is to have to teach 810s how to AC because they "Cant pull over 25k with this Alcast build." ? Majority of the pledges can't be pugged because even though my necro tank can increase overall group dps by 55% (with my own theory craft shenanigans) it doesn't matter because the average group DPS is so low due to people of all cp not knowing how to AC+weave (around 40k group dps with my buffs). Why? Because 95% of this game doesn't know how to play this game and it sickens me...

If its in the game it should have a tutorial at the start, not a blink and you'll miss it loading screen tip!

idk

should stay

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

But, people are arguing that the reason they want AC/weaving to remain, is because clicking a mouse button, or key, in between skills makes the game far less easy than it would otherwise be.

I mean, I know that is a pretty ridiculous suggestion, as (connection/lag notwithstanding) it's not exactly hard, but that is their reasoning for keeping it.

Maintaining the skill ceiling, basically.

So, I'm saying, why aren't people also insisting that every single skill on your bars is always a proactive one and not, basically, little more than a glorified passive?

Or is it more that they hope that brand new players simply won't know about animation cancelling/weaving (as opposed to slotted skill options) and so, will be easier to gank?

Please say it isn't so...

It doesnt matter how many active abilities you have on your bar. It changes very Little in Terms of difficulty. I´d even argue that the dot patch where there were only active abilities on everyones bar was one of the, if not the easiest patch in Terms of effort for dps.

That being said, your last 2 paragraphs are quite absurd, new Players will be relatively easy to gank no matter their Knowledge of Animation cancelling or weaving simply because they dont have experience, most likely bad builds with very Little survivability and most likely no idea how to react if they survive the Opening burst. Why even bring that up in the first place?

+1

Especially about new players.

Heck, even the more skilled players in any MMORPG put in a lot of effort to learn combat in this game and how to more effectively use the skills available. It should be common knowledge to anyone how has played this game or any game for a period of time.

Tigerseye

should go

idk wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, when you weave it anyway, why not just make this an automatic action then - in this case it could be computed in a single go and would not have much of an impact anymore.

The reasons are very obvious.

First off, the damage of a basic attack varies by how long we held the button down.

Also, the does different things based on how long we hold the button down. it does more damage if held briefly and provides a return on the resource for that weapon if we hold the button down for the full duration.

Lets not forget it is also part of what separates ESO from more simplistic games like WoW and FF14.

I don't believe a game should be separated "from more simplistic games"* by an unintended, clunky mechanic.

It is not clunky at all. It might seem clunky to someone challenged with weaving basic attacks but for most people that is because they really have not worked to get it down.

What separates the top players in this game, and any MMORPG, is they work hard to improve their gameplay. This is no different.

In the end, I am glad our combat is not mind-numbing as it is in WoW and FF14.

It's clunky design.

That is the way I meant that.

Prior to the re-download, I was not having issues with it.

Occasionally, it didn't fire, because occasionally, I will hit a key for a skill, or a light attack, and it doesn't register.

That is just normal, in the UK, anyway.

Maintaining a rythm has never been an issue for me.

...and yes, the combat here is, or can be, mind numbing.

It can anywhere and this is, certainly, no exception.

Hitting a light attack before a skill doesn't make it any less so.

At least, in WoW, you have (or had - haven't played for years) multiple abilities and have to try to manage cooldowns.

If you play any game and class enough, you can get so used to it you start playing it in your sleep, but still.

You like animation cancelling, for whatever reason? Fine.

Many people don't, that's all.

No need to assume it's just because we're all clumsy idiots.

Tigerseye

should go

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

But, people are arguing that the reason they want AC/weaving to remain, is because clicking a mouse button, or key, in between skills makes the game far less easy than it would otherwise be.

I mean, I know that is a pretty ridiculous suggestion, as (connection/lag notwithstanding) it's not exactly hard, but that is their reasoning for keeping it.

Maintaining the skill ceiling, basically.

So, I'm saying, why aren't people also insisting that every single skill on your bars is always a proactive one and not, basically, little more than a glorified passive?

Or is it more that they hope that brand new players simply won't know about animation cancelling/weaving (as opposed to slotted skill options) and so, will be easier to gank?

Please say it isn't so...

It doesnt matter how many active abilities you have on your bar. It changes very Little in Terms of difficulty. I´d even argue that the dot patch where there were only active abilities on everyones bar was one of the, if not the easiest patch in Terms of effort for dps.

That being said, your last 2 paragraphs are quite absurd, new Players will be relatively easy to gank no matter their Knowledge of Animation cancelling or weaving simply because they dont have experience, most likely bad builds with very Little survivability and most likely no idea how to react if they survive the Opening burst. Why even bring that up in the first place?

Yeah, as soon as I see the word absurd, I know I'm getting near the truth...

idk

should stay

Carespanker wrote: »

My first and only problem with AC has always been that it's not taught. 95% of the people who play this game can't play the game to the fullest because they don't know how to AC+weave. Do you understand how embarrassing it is to have to teach 810s how to AC because they "Cant pull over 25k with this Alcast build." ? Majority of the pledges can't be pugged because even though my necro tank can increase overall group dps by 55% (with my own theory craft shenanigans) it doesn't matter because the average group DPS is so low due to people of all cp not knowing how to AC+weave (around 40k group dps with my buffs). Why? Because 95% of this game doesn't know how to play this game and it sickens me...

If its in the game it should have a tutorial at the start, not a blink and you'll miss it loading screen tip!

This is an odd reason to argue against pretty much anything. The game does not teach much more than to block or heavy attack. Player have to learn on their own how to use each skill.

Please tell me where in the game has Zos shown us how each skill can be sued most effectively? In every MMORPG I have played it is players that learn how to play the game best and teach other players what they learned. Theorcrafters find the best rotations, best builds and in the end know more about how to play the game than the devs.

Heck, the fact they cannot pull more than 25k without weaving basic attacks shows they are still learning the basics.

Edit: BTW, please back up what you are claiming as a fact. I do not think you have any information to back up that 95% of players can or cannot do AC and are just pulling that number out of thin air in an attempt to make a point based on false information. Further, the idea of it even ignores that some people just do not care about this at all.

Gilvoth

should go

pvp was never meant to look like this

Sanguinor2

should stay

Tigerseye wrote: »

Yeah, as soon as I see the word absurd, I know I'm getting near the truth...

Wait a second, you actually think that a new Player with 0 impen, no heals and low hp and resistances and low cp suddenly becomes hard to gank because he knows what Animation cancelling and/or light attack weaving is????????

Because if you do, I dont know what to tell you besides that you have no clue About anything PvP.

thadjarvis

should stay

One issue underlying the reason players AC and some don't like it is that the graphics designers created animations with duration longer than the global cool down. They could actually give everyone what they want: no reason or benefit for damage but retaining the benefit of being able to dodge, block, switch bars, etc. within the GCD.

One way could cost a sizeable amount of dough to change each animation and for many the short animations might take away the graphical flare of ESO for many. Ie, ESO our characters could look a little boring.

They could alternatively add a cast time to each animation that has duration beyond the GCD. That solution would requiring re-balance the skill healing, damage, cost, etc based upon each's cast time. Secondly, the duration of the animation will determine the utility of each skill meaning the combat team can't simply come up with skills/balance and then send it off to graphics. They'd have to work closer with both having a higher knowledge of each's role, which could be complicated. Secondly, the new addition of cast times to some skills is both liked and dislike. It appears that most that like it prefer the ability to react to them in PvP, but it does not seem that many enjoy the gameplay aspect of using the new versions of the skills as much. It doesn't seem that while playing PvE that cast times are preferred at all.

Thus, they could "fix the glitch" but the two examples above would have potentially more downsides for both the playerbase and ZoS internally.

A third "fix" would be to go the route of other MMO's with queues and/or skill cooldowns, which would retain very little of ESO gameplay and take us quite far from the single-player TES games. Additionally, the cost of this is likely the highest having to re-balance the entire game and re-code most if not all of the combat systems' core components. It would be essentially a new game.

StaticWave

should stay

scubasteve28 wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

what do u think about animation canceling, should it stay or should it go?

Animation cancelling is bad and easily the most stupid idea for a "mechanic"

If it was an intended mechanic, then it wouldn't be called animation cancelling would it?

I lost brain cells reading this.

I spat water all over my desk reading your comment lmfaooo 😂😂😂

Commancho

Ohhhh 999965652 thread about animation canceling.

kathandira

should go

When

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, when you weave it anyway, why not just make this an automatic action then - in this case it could be computed in a single go and would not have much of an impact anymore.

The reasons are very obvious.

First off, the damage of a basic attack varies by how long we held the button down.

Also, the does different things based on how long we hold the button down. it does more damage if held briefly and provides a return on the resource for that weapon if we hold the button down for the full duration.

Lets not forget it is also part of what separates ESO from more simplistic games like WoW and FF14.

I don't believe a game should be separated "from more simplistic games"* by an unintended, clunky mechanic.

It is not clunky at all. It might seem clunky to someone challenged with weaving basic attacks but for most people that is because they really have not worked to get it down.

What separates the top players in this game, and any MMORPG, is they work hard to improve their gameplay. This is no different.

In the end, I am glad our combat is not mind-numbing as it is in WoW and FF14.

It's clunky design.

That is the way I meant that.

Prior to the re-download, I was not having issues with it.

Occasionally, it didn't fire, because occasionally, I will hit a key for a skill, or a light attack, and it doesn't register.

That is just normal, in the UK, anyway.

Maintaining a rythm has never been an issue for me.

...and yes, the combat here is, or can be, mind numbing.

It can anywhere and this is, certainly, no exception.

Hitting a light attack before a skill doesn't make it any less so.

At least, in WoW, you have (or had - haven't played for years) multiple abilities and have to try to manage cooldowns.

If you play any game and class enough, you can get so used to it you start playing it in your sleep, but still.

You like animation cancelling, for whatever reason? Fine.

Many people don't, that's all.

No need to assume it's just because we're all clumsy idiots.

I personally just find it tiring and annoying to do.

Square. RT. Triangle. RT. Circle. RT. RB. Left. Square. RT. Triangle. RT. Circle. RT. RB. Left. Repeat. That is a lot of hitting right trigger just to put a LA in between my skills. Also makes you character look like they have having a seizure. Which is something those who I've played other MMOs with also have stated as to why they didn't like the combat in this game.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

should stay

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Even game itself encourages you to cancel animations of light attacks with a spell, therefore animation cancelling is an officialy approved feature.

More like "We don't want to put the work in to fix the problem so we're just going to run with it"

Hardly the first bug that went on to become a feature in gaming.

Vevvev

should stay

If animation cancelling was removed then abilities like Elemental Weapon and the ones that empower your light attacks (Mage's guild stuff and empowering chains off the top of my head) would be rendered worthless. They were designed around the mechanic and getting them to work correctly is a skill in and of itself. Besides, when the Cyrodiil lag hits you can just forget about light attack weaving as most of the time you can't even get a single light attack off without doing something like standing still.

idk

should stay

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Yeah, as soon as I see the word absurd, I know I'm getting near the truth...

Wait a second, you actually think that a new Player with 0 impen, no heals and low hp and resistances and low cp suddenly becomes hard to gank because he knows what Animation cancelling and/or light attack weaving is????????

Because if you do, I dont know what to tell you besides that you have no clue About anything PvP.

You forgot the point the new player lacks any clue about the basics of the game. We all learned a lot since our first days in the game.

Heck, I have seen player on a stamina melee character that was confident they did not have an interrupt. If newer players do not even know the most basic tools available to them how can Tiger suggest a new player not knowing the more advanced aspects of combat is even a worthy point to make?

Heck, even with simplistic combat systems like WoW and FF14 many players who have spent years in the game lack the ability do play as well as the top players. So this the point Tiger has tried to make does not measure up.

Carespanker

should stay

idk wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

My first and only problem with AC has always been that it's not taught. 95% of the people who play this game can't play the game to the fullest because they don't know how to AC+weave. Do you understand how embarrassing it is to have to teach 810s how to AC because they "Cant pull over 25k with this Alcast build." ? Majority of the pledges can't be pugged because even though my necro tank can increase overall group dps by 55% (with my own theory craft shenanigans) it doesn't matter because the average group DPS is so low due to people of all cp not knowing how to AC+weave (around 40k group dps with my buffs). Why? Because 95% of this game doesn't know how to play this game and it sickens me...

If its in the game it should have a tutorial at the start, not a blink and you'll miss it loading screen tip!

This is an odd reason to argue against pretty much anything. The game does not teach much more than to block or heavy attack. Player have to learn on their own how to use each skill.

Please tell me where in the game has Zos shown us how each skill can be sued most effectively? In every MMORPG I have played it is players that learn how to play the game best and teach other players what they learned. Theorcrafters find the best rotations, best builds and in the end know more about how to play the game than the devs.

Heck, the fact they cannot pull more than 25k without weaving basic attacks shows they are still learning the basics.

Edit: BTW, please back up what you are claiming as a fact. I do not think you have any information to back up that 95% of players can or cannot do AC and are just pulling that number out of thin air in an attempt to make a point based on false information. Further, the idea of it even ignores that some people just do not care about this at all.

As much as I love making up statistics based on personal experience, im willing to bet real money that 99% of the game thats made it past level 10 can tell you how to block and heavy attack. Ya know why? because its the first thing they show you how to do in the tutorial of the game which cannot be skipped unless you have done it before. Unlike animation canceling, blocking and heavy attacking are basic controls while AC is more of a skill/muscle memory and just like any other muscle memories the longer you do it the easier it is to do. Thus if it was in the unskippable tutorial people would have an easier time in the game at 810... instead of pulling 25k dps...

Edziu

should stay

kathandira wrote: »

When

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, when you weave it anyway, why not just make this an automatic action then - in this case it could be computed in a single go and would not have much of an impact anymore.

The reasons are very obvious.

First off, the damage of a basic attack varies by how long we held the button down.

Also, the does different things based on how long we hold the button down. it does more damage if held briefly and provides a return on the resource for that weapon if we hold the button down for the full duration.

Lets not forget it is also part of what separates ESO from more simplistic games like WoW and FF14.

I don't believe a game should be separated "from more simplistic games"* by an unintended, clunky mechanic.

It is not clunky at all. It might seem clunky to someone challenged with weaving basic attacks but for most people that is because they really have not worked to get it down.

What separates the top players in this game, and any MMORPG, is they work hard to improve their gameplay. This is no different.

In the end, I am glad our combat is not mind-numbing as it is in WoW and FF14.

It's clunky design.

That is the way I meant that.

Prior to the re-download, I was not having issues with it.

Occasionally, it didn't fire, because occasionally, I will hit a key for a skill, or a light attack, and it doesn't register.

That is just normal, in the UK, anyway.

Maintaining a rythm has never been an issue for me.

...and yes, the combat here is, or can be, mind numbing.

It can anywhere and this is, certainly, no exception.

Hitting a light attack before a skill doesn't make it any less so.

At least, in WoW, you have (or had - haven't played for years) multiple abilities and have to try to manage cooldowns.

If you play any game and class enough, you can get so used to it you start playing it in your sleep, but still.

You like animation cancelling, for whatever reason? Fine.

Many people don't, that's all.

No need to assume it's just because we're all clumsy idiots.

I personally just find it tiring and annoying to do.

Square. RT. Triangle. RT. Circle. RT. RB. Left. Square. RT. Triangle. RT. Circle. RT. RB. Left. Repeat. That is a lot of hitting right trigger just to put a LA in between my skills. Also makes you character look like they have having a seizure. Which is something those who I've played other MMOs with also have stated as to why they didn't like the combat in this game.

you can always go to wow and have to press every of 15, 20 skills once they are not in cooldown and just watch them all if you like it so much

I will only repeat something what everyone else was saying to anyone else not happy of this game... - if you dont like it, dont play it, go play something else, nobody will be missing you and nobody wants you to impose your way of playing for others

kathandira

should go

Edziu wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

When

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, when you weave it anyway, why not just make this an automatic action then - in this case it could be computed in a single go and would not have much of an impact anymore.

The reasons are very obvious.

First off, the damage of a basic attack varies by how long we held the button down.

Also, the does different things based on how long we hold the button down. it does more damage if held briefly and provides a return on the resource for that weapon if we hold the button down for the full duration.

Lets not forget it is also part of what separates ESO from more simplistic games like WoW and FF14.

I don't believe a game should be separated "from more simplistic games"* by an unintended, clunky mechanic.

It is not clunky at all. It might seem clunky to someone challenged with weaving basic attacks but for most people that is because they really have not worked to get it down.

What separates the top players in this game, and any MMORPG, is they work hard to improve their gameplay. This is no different.

In the end, I am glad our combat is not mind-numbing as it is in WoW and FF14.

It's clunky design.

That is the way I meant that.

Prior to the re-download, I was not having issues with it.

Occasionally, it didn't fire, because occasionally, I will hit a key for a skill, or a light attack, and it doesn't register.

That is just normal, in the UK, anyway.

Maintaining a rythm has never been an issue for me.

...and yes, the combat here is, or can be, mind numbing.

It can anywhere and this is, certainly, no exception.

Hitting a light attack before a skill doesn't make it any less so.

At least, in WoW, you have (or had - haven't played for years) multiple abilities and have to try to manage cooldowns.

If you play any game and class enough, you can get so used to it you start playing it in your sleep, but still.

You like animation cancelling, for whatever reason? Fine.

Many people don't, that's all.

No need to assume it's just because we're all clumsy idiots.

I personally just find it tiring and annoying to do.

Square. RT. Triangle. RT. Circle. RT. RB. Left. Square. RT. Triangle. RT. Circle. RT. RB. Left. Repeat. That is a lot of hitting right trigger just to put a LA in between my skills. Also makes you character look like they have having a seizure. Which is something those who I've played other MMOs with also have stated as to why they didn't like the combat in this game.

you can always go to wow and have to press every of 15, 20 skills once they are not in cooldown and just watch them all if you like it so much

I will only repeat something what everyone else was saying to anyone else not happy of this game... - if you dont like it, dont play it, go play something else, nobody will be missing you and nobody wants you to impose your way of playing for others

*presents Uno reverse card*

Jaxaxo

should stay

Like somebody else said, i also wanted to point, that light attack weaving is pretty much inseparable from game at current state. Enchants, poisons and actual skills that work from light attacks (like for example lotus flower, siphoning attacks, reave from incapacitating strike) or sets (storm master, arms of relenquen, poisonus serpent and many many more)

Commancho

Edziu wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

When

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, when you weave it anyway, why not just make this an automatic action then - in this case it could be computed in a single go and would not have much of an impact anymore.

The reasons are very obvious.

First off, the damage of a basic attack varies by how long we held the button down.

Also, the does different things based on how long we hold the button down. it does more damage if held briefly and provides a return on the resource for that weapon if we hold the button down for the full duration.

Lets not forget it is also part of what separates ESO from more simplistic games like WoW and FF14.

I don't believe a game should be separated "from more simplistic games"* by an unintended, clunky mechanic.

It is not clunky at all. It might seem clunky to someone challenged with weaving basic attacks but for most people that is because they really have not worked to get it down.

What separates the top players in this game, and any MMORPG, is they work hard to improve their gameplay. This is no different.

In the end, I am glad our combat is not mind-numbing as it is in WoW and FF14.

It's clunky design.

That is the way I meant that.

Prior to the re-download, I was not having issues with it.

Occasionally, it didn't fire, because occasionally, I will hit a key for a skill, or a light attack, and it doesn't register.

That is just normal, in the UK, anyway.

Maintaining a rythm has never been an issue for me.

...and yes, the combat here is, or can be, mind numbing.

It can anywhere and this is, certainly, no exception.

Hitting a light attack before a skill doesn't make it any less so.

At least, in WoW, you have (or had - haven't played for years) multiple abilities and have to try to manage cooldowns.

If you play any game and class enough, you can get so used to it you start playing it in your sleep, but still.

You like animation cancelling, for whatever reason? Fine.

Many people don't, that's all.

No need to assume it's just because we're all clumsy idiots.

I personally just find it tiring and annoying to do.

Square. RT. Triangle. RT. Circle. RT. RB. Left. Square. RT. Triangle. RT. Circle. RT. RB. Left. Repeat. That is a lot of hitting right trigger just to put a LA in between my skills. Also makes you character look like they have having a seizure. Which is something those who I've played other MMOs with also have stated as to why they didn't like the combat in this game.

you can always go to wow and have to press every of 15, 20 skills once they are not in cooldown and just watch them all if you like it so much

I will only repeat something what everyone else was saying to anyone else not happy of this game... - if you dont like it, dont play it, go play something else, nobody will be missing you and nobody wants you to impose your way of playing for others

Haha WTF, they can say the same to you.

Sanguinor2

should stay

idk wrote: »

You forgot the point the new player lacks any clue about the basics of the game. We all learned a lot since our first days in the game.

Heck, I have seen player on a stamina melee character that was confident they did not have an interrupt. If newer players do not even know the most basic tools available to them how can Tiger suggest a new player not knowing the more advanced aspects of combat is even a worthy point to make?

Heck, even with simplistic combat systems like WoW and FF14 many players who have spent years in the game lack the ability do play as well as the top players. So this the point Tiger has tried to make does not measure up.

What you say is true, but even if in a hypothetical Scenario where someone who only does PvE and is perfect in weaving and Animation cancelling but doesnt know the first Thing About PvP and doesnt look at a guide or something goes into PvP in his siro, sorrow, zaan Setup in full divines he will die all the same to a gank as a new Player would. Knowledge About AC or weaving or lack thereof doesnt make a difference in surviving a gank or not. It simply is more likely that someone who knows About AC or weaving knows how to build in PvP.

Edziu

should stay

Commancho wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

When

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, when you weave it anyway, why not just make this an automatic action then - in this case it could be computed in a single go and would not have much of an impact anymore.

The reasons are very obvious.

First off, the damage of a basic attack varies by how long we held the button down.

Also, the does different things based on how long we hold the button down. it does more damage if held briefly and provides a return on the resource for that weapon if we hold the button down for the full duration.

Lets not forget it is also part of what separates ESO from more simplistic games like WoW and FF14.

I don't believe a game should be separated "from more simplistic games"* by an unintended, clunky mechanic.

It is not clunky at all. It might seem clunky to someone challenged with weaving basic attacks but for most people that is because they really have not worked to get it down.

What separates the top players in this game, and any MMORPG, is they work hard to improve their gameplay. This is no different.

In the end, I am glad our combat is not mind-numbing as it is in WoW and FF14.

It's clunky design.

That is the way I meant that.

Prior to the re-download, I was not having issues with it.

Occasionally, it didn't fire, because occasionally, I will hit a key for a skill, or a light attack, and it doesn't register.

That is just normal, in the UK, anyway.

Maintaining a rythm has never been an issue for me.

...and yes, the combat here is, or can be, mind numbing.

It can anywhere and this is, certainly, no exception.

Hitting a light attack before a skill doesn't make it any less so.

At least, in WoW, you have (or had - haven't played for years) multiple abilities and have to try to manage cooldowns.

If you play any game and class enough, you can get so used to it you start playing it in your sleep, but still.

You like animation cancelling, for whatever reason? Fine.

Many people don't, that's all.

No need to assume it's just because we're all clumsy idiots.

I personally just find it tiring and annoying to do.

Square. RT. Triangle. RT. Circle. RT. RB. Left. Square. RT. Triangle. RT. Circle. RT. RB. Left. Repeat. That is a lot of hitting right trigger just to put a LA in between my skills. Also makes you character look like they have having a seizure. Which is something those who I've played other MMOs with also have stated as to why they didn't like the combat in this game.

you can always go to wow and have to press every of 15, 20 skills once they are not in cooldown and just watch them all if you like it so much

I will only repeat something what everyone else was saying to anyone else not happy of this game... - if you dont like it, dont play it, go play something else, nobody will be missing you and nobody wants you to impose your way of playing for others

Haha WTF, they can say the same to you.

and yet this game is how it is and They want it changed, not I
why fixing something thats not "broken" or surely it works?

we had many examples in early times of this game in balance...some people was crying for something to nerf....some to dont...and what ZOS was trying to do? they so often was touching things about nobody asked for runing them into uselesness

wanna get it repeat once ZOS stopped doing in this way?

karekiz

Wouldn't care either way.

People overblow the issue. If AC was removed the game would more or less rotation wise remain similar. I know how to cancel/block cancel/weapon swap cancel, so isn't a big deal for me though.

Honestly I hate LA weaving. Automate that crap.

AinSoph

should stay

The biggest and most obvious problem about this is that the game teaches nothing about it and no, a single load screen tip and a single level up tip do not fix that. So really as much as I hate saying this, it really is an L2P issue.

kathandira

should go

I love the "Leave this game if you don't like it" responses.

Currently the poll is near 60% who like it, 40% don't. Now we know those on the forums are not real representation of the number of players who play the game. But if it were, these people would be asking for a 40% reduction in the player base.

Consider this when taking such an absolute approach.

StaticWave

should stay

Us pro-Ac players are still waiting for a solid argument against AC. So far the most common one we've seen is: "it's a glitch". Not only has that claim been disproven, but is a feature fully supported by ZOS. It is actually pretty hilarious to see them regurgitate the same debunked point over and over and over, because they can't argue with us from a technical standpoint. Most of them probably don't fully understand how the game works. They probably don't even know what animation types stand on the priority list. They probably don't know about the different GCD of those animation types. They'll still make the same arguments though, but have zero data or evidence to back it up xD.