Animation canceling - forum war

MCBIZZLE300

should stay

So it seems to me after much confusion that no one actually has a problem with roll cancel, swap cancel or block cancel its more light attack weaving and the GCD? which is completely different.

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

It's already like that in the form of cast times though like with dizzying swing, a prime example of a hard hitting ability which takes time to land. Same with snipe and dark flare. Certain abilities have cast time because they hit hard. So your idea is already in the game and working as intended? I dont understand what specific abilities you think are bieng cast too fast.

Like I said, it just depends on the skill, animation and damage.

Mage fury would be fast. So when using it. You get a faster gcd.

Now pick a normal heavy hitting skill that has a bigger animation or whatever. It would cause a slower gcd.


What I want is your skills require a choice and thinking on when to use them.


I mean this is just one idea. I'm not a fan of the spamming of skills anyway. I want it to be more focus on attacks, blocking, and waiting for the right moments to use skills. Instead of this boring unskilled combat we got now.

I dont really understand though, lets take dizzying swing for an example. It has a 0.8s cast time requiring you to think about wether to use it or not as you could get killed during that cast time. So thats basically what you want already and it already exists in the game. Your not talking about animation cancelling your talking about the GCD which is something entirely different. Tell me what skill thats hard hitting that DOESN'T have a cast time should have a longer GCD?

barney2525

It just constantly amazes me how many players of these games simply can Not play the game straight up, the way it was designed. Gotta find some loophole, to cut some corners somewhere, as if being ' the best', in any game, has any meaning at all.

So weird

Tigerseye

should go

StaticWave wrote: »

See this is what I’m talking about when I said you constantly put words in people’s mouth or twist their statement. Unintended IS NOT EQUIVALENT to glitch. You want me to look up what a glitch is? This is the definition according to Merriam Webster:

Definition of glitch
1a : a usually minor malfunction
b: : a minor problem that causes a temporary setback

This is the definition of a glitch on Cambridge:

a small problem or fault that prevents something from being successful or working as well as it should

This is, literally, the definition of animation cancelling/weaving, though?

"prevents something from being successful or working as well as it should" is, literally, what animation cancelling (in the form of weaving, anyway) does to the game.

If you check other forums, where they talk about this subject, you will see that the game is, literally, less successful than it otherwise would be, because of it.

Lysette

should go

The commonly used term "rotation" says it all - mindless mechanical finger twitching - that is what competitive combat is.

MurderMostFoul

should stay

If I were designing a game from the ground up, I would try to avoid having cancelable animations. They are non-intuitive, and they run counter to the design aesthetics of combat.

However, animation canceling cannot be removed from ESO. It is deeply ingrained in the fundamental combat mechanics of this game. Folks asking for its removal, hoping it could happen one day, are chasing a pipe dream.

The only option I can realistically think of to lessen the impact of animation canceling in ESO, which might not even be workable, would be to remove some damage dealing animation cancels.

Light attacks - make it only deal damage if the animation completes, perhaps increase the light attack animation speed to help it feel a little more fluid.

Bash cancel - make bash only deal damage if it hits an interruptable target.

Even these two seemingly small tweaks would create massive balance changes, which would necessitate many other changes to classes and skills in order account for any significant imbalances that result.

Ultimately, animation cancelling is here to stay.

ForzaRammer

should stay

Finally a close ended question with only 2 choices

idk

should stay

Lysette wrote: »

Well, when you weave it anyway, why not just make this an automatic action then - in this case it could be computed in a single go and would not have much of an impact anymore.

The reasons are very obvious.

First off, the damage of a basic attack varies by how long we held the button down.

Also, the does different things based on how long we hold the button down. it does more damage if held briefly and provides a return on the resource for that weapon if we hold the button down for the full duration.

Lets not forget it is also part of what separates ESO from more simplistic games like WoW and FF14.

StormeReigns

Moot non issue.

Sylvermynx

I don't have a horse in this race. I'll play the game no matter what happens to AC and combat.

Neoealth

should go

Representing my "should go" boys. Even though it's pretty un cool to be in this camp with all the elite players.

I can understand why people want to keep it though, they learned how to do it, it gives them an advantage over others who can't do it. It's a selfish sort of attitude, but as I say, understandable.

If they designed the game for ac to be an actual part of the game from the start and didn't hide it from new players then I might be happier to just accept it, but it was just easier for them to throw their hands up in the air and say it's too hard to fix, just carry on, knock yourself out, ac to your heart's content ktnxbye, don't forget to buy crowns.

As a result many players, including myself, found out by word of mouth from other players about some vague mysterious trick that the big boy players do to get extra dps into their rotations. You know when you got it right when your character looks like he/she is having a seizure. It just feels clunky, it's always sat the wrong way with me. I learned how to do it, I do it, but I hate it because I play lots of characters and each has their own skills and differing rotations, muscle memory is a thing, but trying to tell my brain which set of muscle memory actions to perform from switching characters is just a problem, at least for me.

And I kind of want to see the animations, I don't want my character to look ridiculous while fighting.

Edziu

should stay

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

“It’s a glitch”
“It’s a glitch”
“gLitChHhH”

You have zero argument and contributed nothing worth of value for this discussion. It’s not just me who are sick of you. It’s literally everyone who argued with you lmfao. You’re like a flat Earther, seriously...

I don't get why you are trigger by me saying it is a glitch. The developers themselves said it was, and they could not fix it. So they embrace it.


What the heck is wrong with the truth? It was a glitch, they could not fix it. They tried too and failed. So instead of banning everyone for doing said exploit. They was force to accept it as part of the game.


That is a fact, that is what happen. To say that it was not a glitch, why did they attempt to fix it? Why did they say it was not intended?

I don't understand your logic at all. Some dude even showed proof of the developers saying it was not intended, and that still was not good enough. You posted a video of the developers saying they accept it. What choice did they have when they failed to fix it?

Please explain to me if they got rid of AC how it would work if lets say you press an ability then switch bars, does the ability not go off or do you not switch bars? same with roll dodge, lets say u press vigor then immediately roll dodge what would happen? Because if they simply didnt go off it'd be the same as cast time ultimates that feel awful. Im seeing a lot of campaigning against AC but no real answers about how it would work if it was removed.

I would think if you cancel the animation for the attack you cancel the attack. So instant blocks would still exist, but the attack that was canceled would do no damage.

So basically itl be like the cast time on dawnbreaker and onslaught that everyone absolutely hates but on every ability. Sounds greaaaaat....

The more exclusionary the combat system, the less people will utilize the content that depends on that combat system. I just don’t want this game to turn into wow where the combat became so exclusionary they had to make multiple difficulty versions of everything to justify the budget for them.

If you love ac then fine, just do not expect much trial or pvp dlcs, there is no audience for it because the combat system is restricting participation.

If they removed AC I'd be removing myself from the game pretty quick tbh. I'd rather no DLC.

So not a target customer then.

The amount of people doing trials, pvp, etc is at an all time low. They just got godslayer on consoles and the amount of people who got it on pc is pretty minimal. It’s the casual player who is keeping the lights on.

You may not want more content but I do. I want the game to grow and the combat system is the main hinderance to that growth. So zos (if they were to read this [they won’t]) has a choice to make, make combat and content for the masses, or make content for people like you who doesn’t want to give them money.

but then why ZOS is nonstop creating content, achievs like this?
how about ZOS currently want people to try something harder, to try work on their gameplay if they want to get these rewards which are are not something "MUST HAVE" for everyone

what if ZOS want their players to grow by addiing such content and it it "tools" via new sets making more power creep - giving more power less exp players also - but then most players here are or to ignorant to actually put an work at themselves to get these rewards and are to lazy to even try train to be better players for this content


maybe He is not a "not target customer" and people put their visions at ZOS as he is "not target"...if somoene like himm was not a target then again...why ZOS every time release an dlc it is on such high lvl? and yet we have people doing it and people who just doesnt care about it and ofc people complaining about it because they are to lazy, to ignorant to actually put work to train their gameplay if they want rewards behind this content

TequilaFire

should stay

May I point out that light attack weaving also recharges your ultimate and procs weapon enchants so it is necessary anyway.

StaticWave

should stay

Tigerseye wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

See this is what I’m talking about when I said you constantly put words in people’s mouth or twist their statement. Unintended IS NOT EQUIVALENT to glitch. You want me to look up what a glitch is? This is the definition according to Merriam Webster:

Definition of glitch
1a : a usually minor malfunction
b: : a minor problem that causes a temporary setback

This is the definition of a glitch on Cambridge:

a small problem or fault that prevents something from being successful or working as well as it should

This is, literally, the definition of animation cancelling/weaving, though?

"prevents something from being successful or working as well as it should" is, literally, what animation cancelling (in the form of weaving, anyway) does to the game.

If you check other forums, where they talk about this subject, you will see that the game is, literally, less successful than it otherwise would be, because of it.

If you just focus on the animation part then yes it is preventing the animation from working as well as it should. But does it set the game back? Not it doesn’t. It actually improves the game from a gameplay point of view. Better DPS, more fluid gameplay, no more stuck in animation. There is zero lag issues and downside to animation canceling other than looking stupid for roleplayers, to which they can completely avoid by just letting the animation play out. Why do you want it removed when it has no effect on your gameplay?

Lysette

should go

idk wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, when you weave it anyway, why not just make this an automatic action then - in this case it could be computed in a single go and would not have much of an impact anymore.

The reasons are very obvious.

First off, the damage of a basic attack varies by how long we held the button down.

Also, the does different things based on how long we hold the button down. it does more damage if held briefly and provides a return on the resource for that weapon if we hold the button down for the full duration.

Lets not forget it is also part of what separates ESO from more simplistic games like WoW and FF14.

True, didn't think about the heavy attack - my bad.

MCBIZZLE300

should stay

Neoealth wrote: »

Representing my "should go" boys. Even though it's pretty un cool to be in this camp with all the elite players.

I can understand why people want to keep it though, they learned how to do it, it gives them an advantage over others who can't do it. It's a selfish sort of attitude, but as I say, understandable.

If they designed the game for ac to be an actual part of the game from the start and didn't hide it from new players then I might be happier to just accept it, but it was just easier for them to throw their hands up in the air and say it's too hard to fix, just carry on, knock yourself out, ac to your heart's content ktnxbye, don't forget to buy crowns.

As a result many players, including myself, found out by word of mouth from other players about some vague mysterious trick that the big boy players do to get extra dps into their rotations. You know when you got it right when your character looks like he/she is having a seizure. It just feels clunky, it's always sat the wrong way with me. I learned how to do it, I do it, but I hate it because I play lots of characters and each has their own skills and differing rotations, muscle memory is a thing, but trying to tell my brain which set of muscle memory actions to perform from switching characters is just a problem, at least for me.

And I kind of want to see the animations, I don't want my character to look ridiculous while fighting.

That's fair enough, probably the only arguement against it i've seen that makes sense.

Sanguinor2

should stay

Lysette wrote: »

The commonly used term "rotation" says it all - mindless mechanical finger twitching - that is what competitive combat is.

And thats never gonna go away? Or which Combat System do you propose where you dont use your fingers? There will also Always be a Rotation for endgame PvE, if you remove Animation cancelling it just becomes even less effort because there will be less to do.

Lysette

should go

Edziu wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

“It’s a glitch”
“It’s a glitch”
“gLitChHhH”

You have zero argument and contributed nothing worth of value for this discussion. It’s not just me who are sick of you. It’s literally everyone who argued with you lmfao. You’re like a flat Earther, seriously...

I don't get why you are trigger by me saying it is a glitch. The developers themselves said it was, and they could not fix it. So they embrace it.


What the heck is wrong with the truth? It was a glitch, they could not fix it. They tried too and failed. So instead of banning everyone for doing said exploit. They was force to accept it as part of the game.


That is a fact, that is what happen. To say that it was not a glitch, why did they attempt to fix it? Why did they say it was not intended?

I don't understand your logic at all. Some dude even showed proof of the developers saying it was not intended, and that still was not good enough. You posted a video of the developers saying they accept it. What choice did they have when they failed to fix it?

Please explain to me if they got rid of AC how it would work if lets say you press an ability then switch bars, does the ability not go off or do you not switch bars? same with roll dodge, lets say u press vigor then immediately roll dodge what would happen? Because if they simply didnt go off it'd be the same as cast time ultimates that feel awful. Im seeing a lot of campaigning against AC but no real answers about how it would work if it was removed.

I would think if you cancel the animation for the attack you cancel the attack. So instant blocks would still exist, but the attack that was canceled would do no damage.

So basically itl be like the cast time on dawnbreaker and onslaught that everyone absolutely hates but on every ability. Sounds greaaaaat....

The more exclusionary the combat system, the less people will utilize the content that depends on that combat system. I just don’t want this game to turn into wow where the combat became so exclusionary they had to make multiple difficulty versions of everything to justify the budget for them.

If you love ac then fine, just do not expect much trial or pvp dlcs, there is no audience for it because the combat system is restricting participation.

If they removed AC I'd be removing myself from the game pretty quick tbh. I'd rather no DLC.

So not a target customer then.

The amount of people doing trials, pvp, etc is at an all time low. They just got godslayer on consoles and the amount of people who got it on pc is pretty minimal. It’s the casual player who is keeping the lights on.

You may not want more content but I do. I want the game to grow and the combat system is the main hinderance to that growth. So zos (if they were to read this [they won’t]) has a choice to make, make combat and content for the masses, or make content for people like you who doesn’t want to give them money.

but then why ZOS is nonstop creating content, achievs like this?
how about ZOS currently want people to try something harder, to try work on their gameplay if they want to get these rewards which are are not something "MUST HAVE" for everyone

what if ZOS want their players to grow by addiing such content and it it "tools" via new sets making more power creep - giving more power less exp players also - but then most players here are or to ignorant to actually put an work at themselves to get these rewards and are to lazy to even try train to be better players for this content


maybe He is not a "not target customer" and people put their visions at ZOS as he is "not target"...if somoene like himm was not a target then again...why ZOS every time release an dlc it is on such high lvl? and yet we have people doing it and people who just doesnt care about it and ofc people complaining about it because they are to lazy, to ignorant to actually put work to train their gameplay if they want rewards behind this content

ZOS runs the game to make money - making their core audience do things they don't like will not lead to more income for them but less - they are not going to harm casuals, because it takes them an eternity to achieve anything due to time constraints, which means they are playing over a longer period, most likely with ESO+ active and they might as well buy a lot more from the crown store. To make these customers unhappy with the game is loosing money if not suicide.

Tigerseye

should go

idk wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, when you weave it anyway, why not just make this an automatic action then - in this case it could be computed in a single go and would not have much of an impact anymore.

The reasons are very obvious.

First off, the damage of a basic attack varies by how long we held the button down.

Also, the does different things based on how long we hold the button down. it does more damage if held briefly and provides a return on the resource for that weapon if we hold the button down for the full duration.

Lets not forget it is also part of what separates ESO from more simplistic games like WoW and FF14.

I don't believe a game should be separated "from more simplistic games"* by an unintended, clunky mechanic.

Separate it in some other, beautiful, intended, way, if you want.

Also, you seem to be using what is, as a reason to exclude what should be.

Of course the game is a certain way, because they designed it to be that way and then later designed it around an unintended mechanic people had discovered and were using (let's not say exploiting!).

Doesn't mean it should, or has to, be that way.

Also, what is stopping you holding a button down, while auto-attack (if they added it) goes off in the background?

I mean, maybe I'm missing something, here (highly possible), but other games have auto-attack and sometimes, also, skills where you have to hold a button, or key, down and they all seem to work pretty well.


*Highly debatable, in the case of WoW, with its multiple slotted abilities, many with different CDs. Can't speak for FF14 (haven't played it).

Lysette

should go

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

The commonly used term "rotation" says it all - mindless mechanical finger twitching - that is what competitive combat is.

And thats never gonna go away? Or which Combat System do you propose where you dont use your fingers? There will also Always be a Rotation for endgame PvE, if you remove Animation cancelling it just becomes even less effort because there will be less to do.

Yeah, maybe, I have no idea about endgame, I'm a casual never even getting near to it nor would i want to. Everything before is the game to me, and I do it slow paced to not get any near to endgame. The game has a lot more to offer than just combat - I'm not in a hurry, there is endless content especially because i take my time with it. Sometimes even WALKING around, not running or sprinting but walking.

scubasteve28

should stay

Noxavian wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

what do u think about animation canceling, should it stay or should it go?

Animation cancelling is bad and easily the most stupid idea for a "mechanic"

If it was an intended mechanic, then it wouldn't be called animation cancelling would it?

I lost brain cells reading this.

frozzzen101

should stay

There are so many cases where unintentional glitches became core gameplay mechanics in video games.

These same people would remove rocket jumping from quake...smh

Edziu

should stay

Lysette wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

“It’s a glitch”
“It’s a glitch”
“gLitChHhH”

You have zero argument and contributed nothing worth of value for this discussion. It’s not just me who are sick of you. It’s literally everyone who argued with you lmfao. You’re like a flat Earther, seriously...

I don't get why you are trigger by me saying it is a glitch. The developers themselves said it was, and they could not fix it. So they embrace it.


What the heck is wrong with the truth? It was a glitch, they could not fix it. They tried too and failed. So instead of banning everyone for doing said exploit. They was force to accept it as part of the game.


That is a fact, that is what happen. To say that it was not a glitch, why did they attempt to fix it? Why did they say it was not intended?

I don't understand your logic at all. Some dude even showed proof of the developers saying it was not intended, and that still was not good enough. You posted a video of the developers saying they accept it. What choice did they have when they failed to fix it?

Please explain to me if they got rid of AC how it would work if lets say you press an ability then switch bars, does the ability not go off or do you not switch bars? same with roll dodge, lets say u press vigor then immediately roll dodge what would happen? Because if they simply didnt go off it'd be the same as cast time ultimates that feel awful. Im seeing a lot of campaigning against AC but no real answers about how it would work if it was removed.

I would think if you cancel the animation for the attack you cancel the attack. So instant blocks would still exist, but the attack that was canceled would do no damage.

So basically itl be like the cast time on dawnbreaker and onslaught that everyone absolutely hates but on every ability. Sounds greaaaaat....

The more exclusionary the combat system, the less people will utilize the content that depends on that combat system. I just don’t want this game to turn into wow where the combat became so exclusionary they had to make multiple difficulty versions of everything to justify the budget for them.

If you love ac then fine, just do not expect much trial or pvp dlcs, there is no audience for it because the combat system is restricting participation.

If they removed AC I'd be removing myself from the game pretty quick tbh. I'd rather no DLC.

So not a target customer then.

The amount of people doing trials, pvp, etc is at an all time low. They just got godslayer on consoles and the amount of people who got it on pc is pretty minimal. It’s the casual player who is keeping the lights on.

You may not want more content but I do. I want the game to grow and the combat system is the main hinderance to that growth. So zos (if they were to read this [they won’t]) has a choice to make, make combat and content for the masses, or make content for people like you who doesn’t want to give them money.

but then why ZOS is nonstop creating content, achievs like this?
how about ZOS currently want people to try something harder, to try work on their gameplay if they want to get these rewards which are are not something "MUST HAVE" for everyone

what if ZOS want their players to grow by addiing such content and it it "tools" via new sets making more power creep - giving more power less exp players also - but then most players here are or to ignorant to actually put an work at themselves to get these rewards and are to lazy to even try train to be better players for this content


maybe He is not a "not target customer" and people put their visions at ZOS as he is "not target"...if somoene like himm was not a target then again...why ZOS every time release an dlc it is on such high lvl? and yet we have people doing it and people who just doesnt care about it and ofc people complaining about it because they are to lazy, to ignorant to actually put work to train their gameplay if they want rewards behind this content

ZOS runs the game to make money - making their core audience do things they don't like will not lead to more income for them but less - they are not going to harm casuals, because it takes them an eternity to achieve anything due to time constraints, which means they are playing over a longer period, most likely with ESO+ active and they might as well buy a lot more from the crown store. To make these customers unhappy with the game is loosing money if not suicide.

and so they are addining content for exp players to keep them for a reason as for casual players...there is very very much mroe content inluding this "endgame" which is going with alos normal mode

as I read enoguh of these forums these casual players are really fine with what is currently in game for them as how many of them run so many characters at once or in overall how many characters they have and they still have what to do, to play here so they are less problem to keep in game which anyway favours casual playing, RPing

and here we have pvp barrier for pvp content which for years ignoring by ZOS and still this content is also alive for whatsoever reasons

whenever new hard content is released there is also easier mode so casual players are not left with nothing new, they have same thing as expl players but just less rewarding as anyway...most of rewards from this vet content is not anything MUST HAVE so it should be easy enough to be able to done by having tanks on dps

Lysette

should go

frozzzen101 wrote: »

There are so many cases where unintentional glitches became core gameplay mechanics in video games.

These same people would remove rocket jumping from quake...smh

True, like webbing freighters instantly into warp in EVE - this was not intended but is a glitch which became a feature. Or undercutting server tick to not be targeted by insta-target ships. There are quite a few glitches which are not considered an exploit in EVE.

Agenericname

should stay

Lysette wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

“It’s a glitch”
“It’s a glitch”
“gLitChHhH”

You have zero argument and contributed nothing worth of value for this discussion. It’s not just me who are sick of you. It’s literally everyone who argued with you lmfao. You’re like a flat Earther, seriously...

I don't get why you are trigger by me saying it is a glitch. The developers themselves said it was, and they could not fix it. So they embrace it.


What the heck is wrong with the truth? It was a glitch, they could not fix it. They tried too and failed. So instead of banning everyone for doing said exploit. They was force to accept it as part of the game.


That is a fact, that is what happen. To say that it was not a glitch, why did they attempt to fix it? Why did they say it was not intended?

I don't understand your logic at all. Some dude even showed proof of the developers saying it was not intended, and that still was not good enough. You posted a video of the developers saying they accept it. What choice did they have when they failed to fix it?

Please explain to me if they got rid of AC how it would work if lets say you press an ability then switch bars, does the ability not go off or do you not switch bars? same with roll dodge, lets say u press vigor then immediately roll dodge what would happen? Because if they simply didnt go off it'd be the same as cast time ultimates that feel awful. Im seeing a lot of campaigning against AC but no real answers about how it would work if it was removed.

I would think if you cancel the animation for the attack you cancel the attack. So instant blocks would still exist, but the attack that was canceled would do no damage.

So basically itl be like the cast time on dawnbreaker and onslaught that everyone absolutely hates but on every ability. Sounds greaaaaat....

The more exclusionary the combat system, the less people will utilize the content that depends on that combat system. I just don’t want this game to turn into wow where the combat became so exclusionary they had to make multiple difficulty versions of everything to justify the budget for them.

If you love ac then fine, just do not expect much trial or pvp dlcs, there is no audience for it because the combat system is restricting participation.

If they removed AC I'd be removing myself from the game pretty quick tbh. I'd rather no DLC.

So not a target customer then.

The amount of people doing trials, pvp, etc is at an all time low. They just got godslayer on consoles and the amount of people who got it on pc is pretty minimal. It’s the casual player who is keeping the lights on.

You may not want more content but I do. I want the game to grow and the combat system is the main hinderance to that growth. So zos (if they were to read this [they won’t]) has a choice to make, make combat and content for the masses, or make content for people like you who doesn’t want to give them money.

but then why ZOS is nonstop creating content, achievs like this?
how about ZOS currently want people to try something harder, to try work on their gameplay if they want to get these rewards which are are not something "MUST HAVE" for everyone

what if ZOS want their players to grow by addiing such content and it it "tools" via new sets making more power creep - giving more power less exp players also - but then most players here are or to ignorant to actually put an work at themselves to get these rewards and are to lazy to even try train to be better players for this content


maybe He is not a "not target customer" and people put their visions at ZOS as he is "not target"...if somoene like himm was not a target then again...why ZOS every time release an dlc it is on such high lvl? and yet we have people doing it and people who just doesnt care about it and ofc people complaining about it because they are to lazy, to ignorant to actually put work to train their gameplay if they want rewards behind this content

ZOS runs the game to make money - making their core audience do things they don't like will not lead to more income for them but less - they are not going to harm casuals, because it takes them an eternity to achieve anything due to time constraints, which means they are playing over a longer period, most likely with ESO+ active and they might as well buy a lot more from the crown store. To make these customers unhappy with the game is loosing money if not suicide.

I doubt the majority if the casuals are playing in content where weaving lights makes a substantial difference.

On the whole animation canceling is larger than just weaving light attacks. In many ways animation canceling is more forgiving toward casuals and lower CP players in more difficult content. A tank in vet BRF using a heavy and suddenly needing to block. A healer using a heavy to restore resources and suddenly needing to cast a shield or emergency heal.

Casuals benefit from animation canceling on the whole as much as anyone else does. Most people with an axe to grind is about the DPS aspect of it.

Coppes

idk wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, when you weave it anyway, why not just make this an automatic action then - in this case it could be computed in a single go and would not have much of an impact anymore.

The reasons are very obvious.

First off, the damage of a basic attack varies by how long we held the button down.

Also, the does different things based on how long we hold the button down. it does more damage if held briefly and provides a return on the resource for that weapon if we hold the button down for the full duration.

Lets not forget it is also part of what separates ESO from more simplistic games like WoW and FF14.

Being able to click-click-click mouse button without thinking isn’t more/less simplistic than other games.

Tigerseye

should go

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

The commonly used term "rotation" says it all - mindless mechanical finger twitching - that is what competitive combat is.

And thats never gonna go away? Or which Combat System do you propose where you dont use your fingers? There will also Always be a Rotation for endgame PvE, if you remove Animation cancelling it just becomes even less effort because there will be less to do.

Well, they could make more things, that are little more than passives, unslotted (or give them their own specific secondary type slot, maybe).

Was looking at Bird of Prey, today.

Alcast recommends you (as Warden) slot that on both bars...

All it is, in terms of an ability you activate, is a speed boost.

You have it slotted for the passive 8% DPS boost, not really for the speed boost.

Total waste of a slot you could use for a far more pro-active active ability.

Where is the outcry about stuff like that making the game too easy?

Sanguinor2

should stay

Tigerseye wrote: »

Well, they could make more things, that are little more than passives, unslotted (or give them their own specific secondary type slot, maybe).

Was looking at Bird of Prey, today.

Alcast recommends you (as Warden) slot that on both bars...

All it is, in terms of an ability you activate, is a speed boost.

You have it slotted for the passive 8% DPS boost, not really for the speed boost.

Total waste of a slot you could use for a far more pro-active active ability.

Where is the outcry about stuff like that making the game too easy?

Doesnt Change anything.
There will Always be a most efficient way to do dps, thats what a Rotation and a build are. Whatever you do, those are never going to go away.
And whether you are rotating between 6,8 or 10 abilities hardly makes a difference in difficulty, we´ve been in the dot patch where 9 Slots were active dps abilities and the 10th Slot was an actively cast buff, still didnt make the game harder.

Lysette

should go

Agenericname wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

“It’s a glitch”
“It’s a glitch”
“gLitChHhH”

You have zero argument and contributed nothing worth of value for this discussion. It’s not just me who are sick of you. It’s literally everyone who argued with you lmfao. You’re like a flat Earther, seriously...

I don't get why you are trigger by me saying it is a glitch. The developers themselves said it was, and they could not fix it. So they embrace it.


What the heck is wrong with the truth? It was a glitch, they could not fix it. They tried too and failed. So instead of banning everyone for doing said exploit. They was force to accept it as part of the game.


That is a fact, that is what happen. To say that it was not a glitch, why did they attempt to fix it? Why did they say it was not intended?

I don't understand your logic at all. Some dude even showed proof of the developers saying it was not intended, and that still was not good enough. You posted a video of the developers saying they accept it. What choice did they have when they failed to fix it?

Please explain to me if they got rid of AC how it would work if lets say you press an ability then switch bars, does the ability not go off or do you not switch bars? same with roll dodge, lets say u press vigor then immediately roll dodge what would happen? Because if they simply didnt go off it'd be the same as cast time ultimates that feel awful. Im seeing a lot of campaigning against AC but no real answers about how it would work if it was removed.

I would think if you cancel the animation for the attack you cancel the attack. So instant blocks would still exist, but the attack that was canceled would do no damage.

So basically itl be like the cast time on dawnbreaker and onslaught that everyone absolutely hates but on every ability. Sounds greaaaaat....

The more exclusionary the combat system, the less people will utilize the content that depends on that combat system. I just don’t want this game to turn into wow where the combat became so exclusionary they had to make multiple difficulty versions of everything to justify the budget for them.

If you love ac then fine, just do not expect much trial or pvp dlcs, there is no audience for it because the combat system is restricting participation.

If they removed AC I'd be removing myself from the game pretty quick tbh. I'd rather no DLC.

So not a target customer then.

The amount of people doing trials, pvp, etc is at an all time low. They just got godslayer on consoles and the amount of people who got it on pc is pretty minimal. It’s the casual player who is keeping the lights on.

You may not want more content but I do. I want the game to grow and the combat system is the main hinderance to that growth. So zos (if they were to read this [they won’t]) has a choice to make, make combat and content for the masses, or make content for people like you who doesn’t want to give them money.

but then why ZOS is nonstop creating content, achievs like this?
how about ZOS currently want people to try something harder, to try work on their gameplay if they want to get these rewards which are are not something "MUST HAVE" for everyone

what if ZOS want their players to grow by addiing such content and it it "tools" via new sets making more power creep - giving more power less exp players also - but then most players here are or to ignorant to actually put an work at themselves to get these rewards and are to lazy to even try train to be better players for this content


maybe He is not a "not target customer" and people put their visions at ZOS as he is "not target"...if somoene like himm was not a target then again...why ZOS every time release an dlc it is on such high lvl? and yet we have people doing it and people who just doesnt care about it and ofc people complaining about it because they are to lazy, to ignorant to actually put work to train their gameplay if they want rewards behind this content

ZOS runs the game to make money - making their core audience do things they don't like will not lead to more income for them but less - they are not going to harm casuals, because it takes them an eternity to achieve anything due to time constraints, which means they are playing over a longer period, most likely with ESO+ active and they might as well buy a lot more from the crown store. To make these customers unhappy with the game is loosing money if not suicide.

I doubt the majority if the casuals are playing in content where weaving lights makes a substantial difference.

On the whole animation canceling is larger than just weaving light attacks. In many ways animation canceling is more forgiving toward casuals and lower CP players in more difficult content. A tank in vet BRF using a heavy and suddenly needing to block. A healer using a heavy to restore resources and suddenly needing to cast a shield or emergency heal.

Casuals benefit from animation canceling on the whole as much as anyone else does. Most people with an axe to grind is about the DPS aspect of it.

At a lower level it makes quite a difference if you weave or not - but new players are often not even using food or drink and are often clueless - AC is not something which is common knowledge among them. That is why overland content has to be so easy - otherwise they might leave before learning abut it.

idk

should stay

Spaceroamer wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, when you weave it anyway, why not just make this an automatic action then - in this case it could be computed in a single go and would not have much of an impact anymore.

The reasons are very obvious.

First off, the damage of a basic attack varies by how long we held the button down.

Also, the does different things based on how long we hold the button down. it does more damage if held briefly and provides a return on the resource for that weapon if we hold the button down for the full duration.

Lets not forget it is also part of what separates ESO from more simplistic games like WoW and FF14.

Being able to click-click-click mouse button without thinking isn’t more/less simplistic than other games.

Being able to weave basic attacks into the execution of skills is more complex than is capable in WoW or FF14 with their simplistic combat designs. it is a big part of what sets ESO apart from such antiquate games.

idk

should stay

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, when you weave it anyway, why not just make this an automatic action then - in this case it could be computed in a single go and would not have much of an impact anymore.

The reasons are very obvious.

First off, the damage of a basic attack varies by how long we held the button down.

Also, the does different things based on how long we hold the button down. it does more damage if held briefly and provides a return on the resource for that weapon if we hold the button down for the full duration.

Lets not forget it is also part of what separates ESO from more simplistic games like WoW and FF14.

I don't believe a game should be separated "from more simplistic games"* by an unintended, clunky mechanic.

It is not clunky at all. It might seem clunky to someone challenged with weaving basic attacks but for most people that is because they really have not worked to get it down.

What separates the top players in this game, and any MMORPG, is they work hard to improve their gameplay. This is no different.

In the end, I am glad our combat is not mind-numbing as it is in WoW and FF14.