The issue with Harrowstorm’s story...

Tiitus

And it’s connection to Greymoor. You have it tied to group content. Because everyone just rushes through it, I’ve had to outsource the content on YouTube just to absorb what the heck was going on. This Kind of kills the purpose of the DLC for some. not everyone is interested in just grinding dungeons some of us are here for the story too.

Nanfoodle

I really think they need to make an easy mode dungeon you can solo or play with other story freaks. Let me do the quest at my speed and get my skill point. Let me loot crates and make the mobs and bosses have scaled drops for the difficulty. I know I would be thrilled. I have yet to enjoy any story in any dungeon. Not one.

MyNameIsElias

i was able to solo both dungeons on normal mode. Gave me plenty of time to pay attention to the quests

Dusk_Coven

Tiitus wrote: »

And it’s connection to Greymoor. You have it tied to group content. Because everyone just rushes through it, I’ve had to outsource the content on YouTube just to absorb what the heck was going on. This Kind of kills the purpose of the DLC for some. not everyone is interested in just grinding dungeons some of us are here for the story too.

They keep this up you might as well watch it all on YouTube. And YouTube is free. You don't have to pay Zos anything.

Nanfoodle

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

i was able to solo both dungeons on normal mode. Gave me plenty of time to pay attention to the quests

My guess that's not an option for 95% of the community.

Nemesis7884

You also kinda feel guilty if you dont rush through the dungeon because you are holding up the group lol...

yeah a story mode for dungeon that is soloable (like the level of a public dungeon for example) would be really nice... and zos just has to adjust difficulty so its not that much work i think...

gw2 has something similar and it works well...

Dusk_Coven

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

gw2 has something similar and it works well...

SWTOR has Story modes for their "dungeons" (flashpoints) and it works really well. They know how to tell a story and let people experience it to the fullest.
Hasn't killed the veteran mode queues at all, probably because they still tie daily and weekly rewards to them -- sort of like how ZOS is trying to do with Undaunted keys. In veteran modes, no one complains about rushing because everyone's already there for the loot and XP so from the get-go you're all of that same mindset.
It's also a great way for newbs and noobs to start learning some of the mechanics of the bosses before they step up to veteran mode and then master mode.
Solo story mode is win-win all around.

ZOS's direction in storytelling took a nosedive from Elsweyr in basically all aspects.
Just compare what happens with the Wrathstone during the trailer, and during the prologue we played. Not just different -- OPPOSITE.

freespirit

If you are queueing via group finder then maybe you won't get to see the story.....

Either group with friends/guild mates OR advertise in zone chat for whichever dungeon BUT state it's a story/quest led run

It's new content a lot of people want to take their time and absorb the story.

Myself and a guildie did this and the two extra people were quite happy to take their time.

HorrorShow

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

You also kinda feel guilty if you dont rush through the dungeon because you are holding up the group lol...

This is the problem right here. Do not feel guilty for playing the game at your pace. If they wanted a rush group they could have organized it with friends or their guild.

Solo que is doing whatever the heck you want. Don't like it? Group up.

tonyblack

I soloed both dungeons and that was very enjoyable experience for me so far. There is no mechanics punishing solo play in these dungeons. In fact, I think it was intentionally easy so most of mechanics are easy to skip on normal mode. Check some guides for dps builds and dungeons in particular if you struggle to complete normal and improve. Honestly how much easier you want these dungeons to be? Not on the same difficulty as public dungeons and delves I hope.

tsaescishoeshiner

It also would be cool of them to make dungeon quests repeatable like trial quests. Who gets to read through the quests on their first time through?

karekiz

You can solo the new dungeons.

People wanted "hard" solo content. Well basically this is it for more difficult quest content.

MellowMagic

Out of all the recent dlc dungeons they've added these are by far the easiest. Moon hunter keep on normal was way harder then this. Me and my gf duoed unhollowed grave cause we wanted to see all the secret stuff and take it slow, it was such a joke on normal which Is fine because normal should be easy enough to grind efficiently. If they ever add a solo mode for dungeons it must have no drops besides maybe a momento for finishing it.

Aznarb

I've read everything, thx to my guildie who know I love to read everything ^^

LukosCreyden

I get what you mean, but we have options;

1. Make a solo build and solo it. These two dungeons actually look slightly easier than the last ones, so whilst this may be a little time-consuming, it should not be too hard.
2. Ask some guildies if they wouldn't mind doing a slow run on normal. If your guildies are worth their salt (or also want to do a slow run), they should help.
3. Ask in zone chat. Plenty of people out there that would like to do story. You may also find lots of newer players who would like to give it a go. For normal mode, lower CP should not be an issue.
4. Make a guild specifically for this kind of thing and advertise it on the forums and appropriate reddits! There are a lot of people who feel that they may miss out on dungeon story, so the interest is definitely there!

Blutengel

This is the only reason I haven't done any dungeons in years. I want to experience the story and back when I did do the first few dungeons it was a rush because many things were forced skipped and I had no idea what's happening and it just ruined my experience so I no longer do them. I really hope one day we do get the solo mode.
I might try and adjust my build and try to solo them one day.

code65536

I did an "RP run" of both dungeons with a friend. Normal mode, stopped to listen to every line of dialog, read every bit of text, etc. I came on an alt character that I normally wouldn't use so that I could get the skill point.

It's easy enough that, even on my alt, I could've done it solo, since there aren't any mechanics that prevent soloing, but of course, it's more fun and relaxing to do it with one other person.

So just find one buddy who's looking for a story experience and walk through it with them.

FierceSam

I'm not sure that ZOS could have made the normal versions of these dungeons much easier on a fight/challenge level.

The fundamental issue is that it is almost impossible to do 'questing' or 'storytelling' in a group. It doesn't work in terms of the dialogue (my pace is not your pace) and it definitely does not work on the key cutscene moments. These are triggered by the first player to move past a specific point and it's super unlikely that all the group are together at these moments.

This means that inevitably it's very hard to ensure that all the group hear the key dialogue or view the key cutscene even if you are all deliberately trying to do this.

And it's only going to get more frustrating for everyone as players reach that annoying point where everyone is suddenly supposed to 'know' the dungeon and you get players rushing through it.

I've done Unhallowed Grave a number of times and the least interesting and fun time was with the most experienced players, who had already been there, done it, got all the achievements and fundamentally were treating it like an FG1 key run. By far the most fun was the time with a group that was deliberately going through it slowly working out the mechanics and our own tactics.

I'm going to be running a whole lot of trips there over the weekend to go through it slowly with guildies, partly because I really like it as a dungeon and partly because I want them to enjoy it the way I did.

Everstorm

code65536 wrote: »

I did an "RP run" of both dungeons with a friend. Normal mode, stopped to listen to every line of dialog, read every bit of text, etc. I came on an alt character that I normally wouldn't use so that I could get the skill point.

It's easy enough that, even on my alt, I could've done it solo, since there aren't any mechanics that prevent soloing, but of course, it's more fun and relaxing to do it with one other person.

So just find one buddy who's looking for a story experience and walk through it with them.

As long as there aren't any mechanics that block solo play I'm content. Guess I'll try them this weekend, hope I don't crash over and over.

Grianasteri

Totally agree. I think any group focused story content should be in addition to a main story, not integral to it.

Tiitus

Nanfoodle wrote: »

I really think they need to make an easy mode dungeon you can solo or play with other story freaks. Let me do the quest at my speed and get my skill point. Let me loot crates and make the mobs and bosses have scaled drops for the difficulty. I know I would be thrilled. I have yet to enjoy any story in any dungeon. Not one.

they can remove loot all together in story mode. dont need an easy way to get loot just trying to enjoy the story the way it was intended. i love group content just not a good way of introducing a year long story campaign.

Shantu

Personally, I could care less about stories and lore. I'm there to defend the universe against murderous monsters.

That being said, even for those that love the stories, the problem is that a story mode has little replay value. It's pretty much a one-and-done deal, which kind of goes against the basic design of MMO's to keep you engaged and repeating content. So from that perspective, I can understand why developers don't jump on the band wagon.

opaj

I recently ran into this issue with Wrathstone. I'm playing through Season of the Dragon on a relatively new Khajiit character, because the theme suited her best out of all of my characters. I tested the waters by sending her into normal Frostvault, but that didn't go well. I am in both RP guilds and serious PvP/PvE guilds, but I couldn't find anyone who was free to help me play through the normal modes for the purpose of story. Oh, some people offered, but they weren't available when I was, and it became too much of a headache so I gave up. The Season of the Dragon dungeon DLC isn't super interconnected with the main story, so I'm resigned to just skipping those ones on this particular character. Mind you that I wasted two weeks trying to find a group up for these dungeons, and even considered abandoning the Season of the Dragon entirely in the process.

I'll probably hold off on Harrowstorm until the whole of Dark Heart of Skyrim is out. Fortunately, the character I plan to take through this story is a lot less gimmicky, and it sounds like I'll probably be able to just solo Harrowstorm with her. But I think it's unfortunate that these difficulty spikes are being inserted into the story content of ESO, which I usually engage with at the end of my day as a way to relax. I'll run the DLC dungeons sooner or later and even enjoy them, but I am not a fan of them being integral to the story of ESO.


[Addendum]

Tiitus wrote: »

they can remove loot all together in story mode. dont need an easy way to get loot just trying to enjoy the story the way it was intended. i love group content just not a good way of introducing a year long story campaign.

I've heard this repeated by a lot of folks who are asking for a story mode, but I think the majority of players would skip this mode entirely if it didn't give loot. I mean, I'd happily play story mode, but I think it's a lot more work on the developer's side than you realize, and the low number of players who would likely engage makes it hard to justify that much work.

SodanTok

Dungeons are super easy and this is MMO game. So all one has to do to absorb story out of these DLCs at his own pace is to find friends or not totally suck at the game. Both of these things are achievable if someone puts half as much care to them as they do to complaining on forums.

Tiitus

SodanTok wrote: »

Dungeons are super easy and this is MMO game. So all one has to do to absorb story out of these DLCs at his own pace is to find friends or not totally suck at the game. Both of these things are achievable if someone puts half as much care to them as they do to complaining on forums.

actually its statically easier to voice ones distaste with the current direction the story is being portrayed on the forums than it is to over come one social anxiety to make friends and or spend quite a bit of time min/maxing gear and rotations in game to over come a 4 man group dungeon for ppl with very lil time to play. so umm your wrong. that said i do understand your sentiment no one is trying to take anything from you just asking for another option so if this thread offended you i apologize.

Starlock

For those of you claiming you did the dungeon by yourself, this isn't useful information. Tell us more. What kind of player are you? How do the bosses compare to, say, base game world bosses? There's such a titanic gap in content difficulties in this game that "I soloed it" doesn't help those of us who aren't min-max competitive gamers whether or not it is actually doable by the rest of us.

LukosCreyden

@Starlock most people who have solo'd these dungeons will have builds specifically for this kind of thing. As I said in my previous post, this is not exactly an EASY task; you do need to learn the mechanics and be able to execute them under pressure.
There are a lot of good channels on Youtube that host solo builds; Hack the Minotaur is one particular creator that focuses heavily on soloing.

Keep in mind; when you make a solo build you are, in a manner, min-maxing. If you are not prepared to put work in to your build (seek out specific gear and upgrade materials), then this would not be the path for you, as DLC dungeon bosses are far more difficult that world bosses.

So, if soloing is something that isn't feasible to you, I would still refer you to my other suggestions:

1. Speak with guildies to do a slow run on normal. Any guildie worth their salt will be sure to aid you.
2. Ask in zone chat. There are a lot of people looking to do these dungeons for the quest and lore.
3. Form a guild of your very own, focusing on clearing dungeons for newer players / casual players etc.

These solutions may not be ideal, but they are the best we have at the moment. I do STRONGLY recommend looking into making a solo build. The power fantasy is awesome and it comes with its own challenges and fun. If you want to know more about solo builds, check out some stuff on the 'Tube, or drop me a question.

Starlock

Thanks, @LukosCreyden - that's a lot more useful.

I make characters, not "builds" so as expected I'm probably out on this. I don't like "gaming" my games, so to speak - if I have to go out of my way and do something not enjoyable to get there, I don't bother. Back in the day when sorcerer shields lasted 20 seconds and were actually strong, I bet it'd be doable without me destroying one of my characters to get there, but... well, no more I guess. I may try to get a story mode group together, but it'd be better if ZoS would just listen to the huge demand there is for story mode dungeons and make it happen already. I would never consider buying the DLC dungeons without that feature.

LukosCreyden

@Starlock I 100% know what you mean on creating a character, rather than a build. I'm exactly the same, I like to make my set-ups fit the themes of my characters. For example, I proc sets as extra abilities for my characters- they need to fit the theme of the character. I went out of my way to get Iceheart, as it was something that fit my Necromancer's theme whilst also helping me reach my goal of being able to stand alone in a DLC dungeon.

It is hard to explain, but I personally find the challenge of overcoming a DLC dungeon without compromising the integrity of my character's theme to be really rewarding in its own way.

Either way, I hope you can get a good group sorted! In normal dungeons, numbers are a huge factor for success; just having one extra person makes the whole thing a lot more doable.

code65536

Starlock wrote: »

For those of you claiming you did the dungeon by yourself, this isn't useful information. Tell us more. What kind of player are you? How do the bosses compare to, say, base game world bosses? There's such a titanic gap in content difficulties in this game that "I soloed it" doesn't help those of us who aren't min-max competitive gamers whether or not it is actually doable by the rest of us.

Similar to base-game World Bosses.

ArchMikem

The only way i found to solo norm Dungeons comfortably, is an AoE MagSorc spamming Hardened Ward. Not everyone is that Sorc. Things get much more hectic when you have to dodge, block, keep up self heals, and god forbid youre a single target build.

Yes i support a Story Mode to be added alongside Normal and Veteran in the group settings. Perhaps all that needs to be done is cut the mob groups in half. A major problem with solo players is getting overwhelmed with incoming damage.