BRETONS - should not be 100% magicka

Thevampirenight

Kombinator wrote: »

In every other Elder Scrolls game the Breton was a magic/anti-magic race. Both increased magicka, and resistance to it.

I'm more surprised why Altmer has anything related to Stamina. Altmer was the pure magicka race in the other games as well. In Oblivion they have both extra magicka, and weakness to it. In Skyrim they have a greater power, that increase magicka regen 10 times for a short time. Basically providing infinite magicka.

However in other Elder Scrolls game there are no classes since Morrowind at least. Haven't played the games before that, but i saw somewhere, that Arena had classes.

Which means, that even as a warrior you had ways to use magicka effectively. One easiest example is the paladin style. Use conventional means, and heavy armor to kill your enemies, and use restoration for healing. In Oblivion you were also able to turn magicka into stamina.

In ESO that's not entirely the case. I don't pretend to know all classes, but for two examples. The Templar can put that one restoration skill to quickly recover health. So despite being a Stamina character your magicka is not a full waste. For Nightblade however that's not the case. Unless you equip Resto staff. Efficient self heal requies to sacrifice your invisibility. Even worse, that it's a % health regen. So as stamina NB it is not nearly as efficient as a Templar's heal.

Classes were removed in Skyrim but they were there in Oblivion that was the Elder Scrolls game before Skyrim.

Xarc

Bretons must stay a magical race, mainly.
I'm just saying, according to the lore and their NEdic origins like imperials, they should be like imperials with magical resistance and ressource.

Kombinator

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

In every other Elder Scrolls game the Breton was a magic/anti-magic race. Both increased magicka, and resistance to it.

I'm more surprised why Altmer has anything related to Stamina. Altmer was the pure magicka race in the other games as well. In Oblivion they have both extra magicka, and weakness to it. In Skyrim they have a greater power, that increase magicka regen 10 times for a short time. Basically providing infinite magicka.

However in other Elder Scrolls game there are no classes since Morrowind at least. Haven't played the games before that, but i saw somewhere, that Arena had classes.

Which means, that even as a warrior you had ways to use magicka effectively. One easiest example is the paladin style. Use conventional means, and heavy armor to kill your enemies, and use restoration for healing. In Oblivion you were also able to turn magicka into stamina.

In ESO that's not entirely the case. I don't pretend to know all classes, but for two examples. The Templar can put that one restoration skill to quickly recover health. So despite being a Stamina character your magicka is not a full waste. For Nightblade however that's not the case. Unless you equip Resto staff. Efficient self heal requies to sacrifice your invisibility. Even worse, that it's a % health regen. So as stamina NB it is not nearly as efficient as a Templar's heal.

Classes were removed in Skyrim but they were there in Oblivion that was the Elder Scrolls game before Skyrim.

You are half right. In Oblivion, and Morrowind there were "classes", but it did not prevented you from doing anything else. Just because illusion was not your class skill when you chose/create your class it did not forbade you from leveling, and using it.

In ESO you can't use Nightblade skills as a Templar, and reverse.

Nanfoodle

Stop trying to get things nurfed. This already happens enough.

Nerouyn

spartaxoxo wrote: »

There is not a way to solve this issue without making races purely cosmetic, which goes completely against the lore and established gameplay of elder scrolls games.

Brazen lie.

In the single player games, races may have a relative bonus compared to others at the beginning of the game.

But every race can achieve the exact same skill level in every skill. No race is superior to any other in any respect. The only exception which comes to mind is Khajiit unarmed damage bonus in Skyrim, which is beyond trivial given how much weapon damage dwarfs unarmed.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Races

ESO's this race learns this skill 15% faster racials are the equivalent.

Excluding the resistance ones every other racial passive is lore breaking. And in the single player games the resistance ones are generally insignificant when stacked up against those you can achieve with enchanting and alchemy.

idk

Nerouyn wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

There is not a way to solve this issue without making races purely cosmetic, which goes completely against the lore and established gameplay of elder scrolls games.

Brazen lie.

In the single player games, races may have a relative bonus compared to others at the beginning of the game.

But every race can achieve the exact same skill level in every skill. No race is superior to any other in any respect. The only exception which comes to mind is Khajiit unarmed damage bonus in Skyrim, which is beyond trivial given how much weapon damage dwarfs unarmed.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Races

ESO's this race learns this skill 15% faster racials are the equivalent.

Excluding the resistance ones every other racial passive is lore breaking. And in the single player games the resistance ones are generally insignificant when stacked up against those you can achieve with enchanting and alchemy.

If you are going to start off calling someone a brazen liar it is best to make correct statements. It is nothing like the passives where a race learns something 15% faster. That type of passive becomes pointless and worthless once the character has maxed out learning that skill line. Those passives in the links you mention, especially Morrowind and Oblivion, are head starts in those areas. They permit a Bretton male to build slightly stronger for magicka than a Nord male could be.

Just like most of the current passives in ESO they do not restrict a race but merely offer a slight enhancement in an area. Yes, they are different than previous TES games but in the case of the Breton they keep the flavor.

Juhasow

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

For the record stamina altmer is as weak for stamina setups as breton. When You'll build for stamina as altmer then his passive will start to restore magicka.

Trust me my Breton stamblade is not weak

It's as weak as altmer.

Juhasow

Vanos444 wrote: »

Oh! Please...
You have OP orcs and redguard passives and now you want Bretons to be OP as well? In the same faction? Lol!

Redguard is actually one of the weakest races atm.

Nerouyn

idk wrote: »

If you are going to start off calling someone a brazen liar...

Brazen lie.

I didn't call him a brazen liar. That would be a personal attack.

I correctly identified his claim as a brazen lie.

It is.

The facts in this matter are indisputable and what they said is a brazen lie.

idk wrote: »

...it is best to make correct statements.

What I said is totally accurate.

idk wrote: »

It is nothing like the passives where a race learns something 15% faster. That type of passive becomes pointless and worthless once the character has maxed out learning that skill line. Those passives in the links you mention, especially Morrowind and Oblivion, are head starts in those areas.

I didn't say they were exactly the same. I said they are the equivalent.

They are.

Every race can learn one skill a bit faster than everyone else. That's just like in the single player games, except in those it's not a percentage learning bonus, it's a small head start.

idk wrote: »

They permit a Bretton male to build slightly stronger for magicka than a Nord male could be.

No. No they don't.

At max skill level a Breton is no better than a Nord at magic in the single player games.

That's a fact!

MEBengalsFan2001

Each race needs to be unique and different from the others so that there is a reason to select a race within a MMO outside of lore based reasons.

The final passive may need to be adjusted a bit as it is too good IMO but other than that the rest of the passives are fine.

This is something that should have been brought up a year ago when ESO was updating the races and not something a year later.

Nerouyn

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Each race needs to be unique and different from the others so that there is a reason to select a race within a MMO outside of lore based reasons.

Wrong.

And as has been pointed out many times, lore breaking.

Kombinator

Nerouyn wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

There is not a way to solve this issue without making races purely cosmetic, which goes completely against the lore and established gameplay of elder scrolls games.

Brazen lie.

In the single player games, races may have a relative bonus compared to others at the beginning of the game.

But every race can achieve the exact same skill level in every skill. No race is superior to any other in any respect. The only exception which comes to mind is Khajiit unarmed damage bonus in Skyrim, which is beyond trivial given how much weapon damage dwarfs unarmed.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Races

ESO's this race learns this skill 15% faster racials are the equivalent.

Excluding the resistance ones every other racial passive is lore breaking. And in the single player games the resistance ones are generally insignificant when stacked up against those you can achieve with enchanting and alchemy.

They had more, than simple headstarts in skills. I remember Altmer having 100 extra magicka in Oblivion, and it still starts with more in Skyrim. Breton had 50 extra magicka in Oblivion as well.

So a Nord ignoring any other effects could NEVER have the same ammount of base magicka as a Breton in Oblivion. And no race in Skyrim can ever reach the base magicka of an Altmer. The reason it had much less matter in Oblivion was the ability to convert magicka into stamina. From that point of view having stamina was much more useful for any non-pure caster.

In Skyrim it is less problematic, because stamina in general is not that useful, and you can easily convert magicka to health which is useful to everyone. Also in vanilla there is no healer companion. Opposite to ESO where healer in group content is common.

So while it is true, that Nord mage with 100 destruction can make the same spells as Breton in Oblivion. He don't have that much base magicka. Meaning, that he can't cast the same ammount, or strong spells, because of the magicka limitaiton. For Altmer the difference is even bigger. Also if i remember correctly Altmers in Morrowind gained extra magicka from the intellect attribute. So with 100 intellect the difference were also significant.

Skyrim is slightly different, because you can reduce magicka costs drastically by enchantements. Down to 0 in fact. However if you don't do that, or can't due mods, then that extra magicka makes the Altmer a better mage, than any other race can become. I think it is without it too, because you can only make one spell type free without exploit. So while the full geared nord is same with Destro he is below in all other. He can't heal that much in total, and using the mage armor will leave him with less magicka to spend on anything else.

Nerouyn

Kombinator wrote: »

They had more, than simple headstarts in skills. I remember Altmer having 100 extra magicka in Oblivion, and it still starts with more in Skyrim. Breton had 50 extra magicka in Oblivion as well.

So a Nord ignoring any other effects could NEVER have the same ammount of base magicka as a Breton in Oblivion.

As I said, these minor and totally trivial differences pale in comparison to the effects of enchanting and alchemy.

Unlike crazy pants ESO, damage doesn't scale to max resources so it's just fuel to burn on spells.

A single sigil stone with + magicka will equal that 50.

And there's still alchemy on top of that.

Kombinator wrote: »

And no race in Skyrim can ever reach the base magicka of an Altmer.

Hilarious lie!!!!!!

You can raise stats as high as you like in Skyrim with legendary skilling. Everyone knows this.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Leveling

The only limit is where you choose to stop.

If anything Altmer are losers in this race, because their only racial bonus is the equivalent of a couple of level up stats spent on magicka, in a game with no level cap.

LadyDestiny

Banana wrote: »

I like my pure Breton as is.

Agreed. I played breton sorc since day one and all through the high elf meta. Leave my breton alone.

Royaji

Nerouyn wrote: »

At max skill level a Breton is no better than a Nord at magic in the single player games.

So at the end the race is purely cosmetic, right?

I guess

spartaxoxo wrote: »

There is not a way to solve this issue without making races purely cosmetic, which goes completely against the lore and established gameplay of elder scrolls games.

Is not such a

Nerouyn wrote: »

Brazen lie.

After all

Nerouyn

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Classes were removed in Skyrim but they were there in Oblivion that was the Elder Scrolls game before Skyrim.

No.

Both Morrowind and Oblivion had something they called "classes" but they were absolutely not classes as they are understood in most games and as we see in ESO.

They just gave small starting bonuses to skills and determined how level ups were calculated.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes

In both games every class could learn every spell and max every skill.

At max skill level no class was different to any other.

If only ESO were like this!

Nerouyn

@Royaji

They claimed that races being completely cosmetic was completely against lore and established gameplay.

That is a brazen lie.

MEBengalsFan2001

Nerouyn wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Each race needs to be unique and different from the others so that there is a reason to select a race within a MMO outside of lore based reasons.

Wrong.

And as has been pointed out many times, lore breaking.

ESO is before any other TES game. Therefore whatever ZoS wants to do with the races can be done because well, whatever happens in ESO can be alter over time to meet future lore for TES games.

SpiderCultist

this thread is a living proof as to why the lore guy quit

mixing up RL topics, screwing it up (hello dragons in Elsweyr!) and players trying to convince us about how their race should be this or that for the sake of their own agenda

leave things as they are

Nerouyn

[quote="MEBengalsFan2001;c-6608038"ESO is before any other TES game. Therefore whatever ZoS wants to do with the races can be done because well, whatever happens in ESO can be alter over time to meet future lore for TES games.[/quote]

I appreciate the novelty of this attempt but, no.

JobooAGS

Vanos444 wrote: »

Oh! Please...
You have OP orcs and redguard passives and now you want Bretons to be OP as well? In the same faction? Lol!

Redguards OP? Are we playing the same game?

Maxx7410

begone you infidel!!!!! Bretons are magic incarnate!!!! stmina die!!!!!

MEBengalsFan2001

Nerouyn wrote: »

[quote="MEBengalsFan2001;c-6608038"ESO is before any other TES game. Therefore whatever ZoS wants to do with the races can be done because well, whatever happens in ESO can be alter over time to meet future lore for TES games.

I appreciate the novelty of this attempt but, no.[/quote]

If you want this fixed you should include all fixes to all races so LORE is correct; otherwise your request will be denied. Also, make sure your ask will not over buff your preferred race simply for lore sake as this is a MMO and MMOs has other priorities than simply following lore; the priority is making each race, class, role worth using in this game.

FrancisCrawford

How to make a stamina Breton:

1. Make a short Nord or soft-faced Imperial.
2. Give them a Breton name.

Xarc

• In all TES games, bretons are known to have spell resistance. So, that's a bonus we need to keep anyway.
• Zenimax in TESO choosed to reinforce this defensive aspect by reducing all magicka cost of abilities + magicka regen.
• Bretons have more magicka than other race (+2000) from their blood.

The only thing I could say is that the second point could be modified.
In all TES games, bretons are known to be smart like imperials, but not as strong as them (so no health bonus).

I think magicka regen should be the thing of altmers while bretons should be humans with magicka+spell resistance. It would say exactly what they are : childs from altmer+humans who only reproduced with other humans again and again with elven blood diluted after centuries, so they're more humans than elves (less magicka power)

It would also be possible to keep this "defensive " aspect by giving a healing bonus to bretons = defensive aspect
It is logical since they've a privilegied link with wild and magicka.

Canned_Apples

Didn't it sort-of work for StamDKs?
Armor+chain+shield+stun and wings, when they were useful/oped.

Dracane

Bretons should not be 100%, neither should they ever have as much Magicka as Altmer do. That is a flaw since the game came out. Breton is immersion breaking.

Rahar

You can basically argue this same post backwards for Imperials. What I did was just make my Imperial-named character into a Breton, and no one is the wiser.

idk

Nerouyn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It is nothing like the passives where a race learns something 15% faster. That type of passive becomes pointless and worthless once the character has maxed out learning that skill line. Those passives in the links you mention, especially Morrowind and Oblivion, are head starts in those areas.

I didn't say they were exactly the same. I said they are the equivalent.

One would have to really stretch fact into fiction for them to be even equivalent.

One gives them a head start that will remain a worthy boost for the life of the character while the other becomes pointless and no longer provides value once the respective skill line is maxed. That is the actual fact without any distortion.

YandereGirlfriend

Races in ESO are meant to differentiate relative areas of strength based (more or less) in the established lore.

Take Skyrim for example, the Breton 25% Magic Resist was WILDLY OP compared to any other racial bonus in the game.

Sure, other races could reach the (IIRC) 75% Magic Resist Cap, but in order to do so you had to make other LARGE compromises to your overall build, such as stacking your Standing Stone AND enchantments AND doing the Agent of Mara quest, etc.

OTOH, if you are a Breton you could choose a different Standing Stone, use different enchantments, NOT do the Agent of Mara quest, etc. and still reach the same 75% cap, which gives the Breton a UNIQUE way to play the game (e.g. reaching Resist Cap without having to fully build for it) that literally no other race could replicate.

And you know what... that's OKAY!

Please people... not everything needs to be fully min/maxed for you to be good at and enjoy your role in the game.

ESO's racial diversity is a good thing that allows us to either fully lean into our chosen role (e.g. stacking Orc and stamDPS) or complement a build in non-obvious ways (e.g. stacking magCro and Imperial and never having to invest anything in health) or simply to roleplay (e.g. there is an Orcish Necromancer in Morrowind that perhaps I want to play the ancestor of in ESO) and everything in between.