Shocking, repeated cheating by a guild PC NA Kaal

Cavedog

Three days in a row now the same guild, and the same cheater have take Chim scroll then ported from Chim temple to a blue keep far from Chim temple with the scroll. Of course we are all reporting this cheater and their guild, and of course ZOS has done nothing. What are we supposed to do then?

Tickets I've reported are:
200211-003423
200211-003423
200212-010589

[snip] This is really shocking cheating. It's repeated, they brag about it, and ZOS does nothing. They haven't even taken action against the primary offender, let alone given the guild a warning of any kind.

[Edit for bait.]

nafensoriel

ZOS will never discuss actions taken or even acknowledge an investigation is being conducted.
You report. They do everything else silently and you will never know what actions were taken or what was discovered.
Sometimes it takes more than a day or three to gather evidence or sometimes enforcement is simply delayed so the team can figure out how the heck the exploit is happening so they can close the hole.


Trust me when I say this is a good thing.

OtarTheMad

I remember an old bug like this where there was some odd gap in some rocks near one of the AD gates and you could just take the scroll and run to the rocks and if you hit the right spot you'd be transported to your base automatically. Maybe it's back?

Saelent

I thought EU had problems, damn.

Cavedog

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I remember an old bug like this where there was some odd gap in some rocks near one of the AD gates and you could just take the scroll and run to the rocks and if you hit the right spot you'd be transported to your base automatically. Maybe it's back?

Supposedly they are bragging about it; claiming it's a bug.....but they keep doing it knowingly on purpose. So at the very least, they are exploiting and bragging about it.

Cavedog

Today, the cheater ported from Chim scroll temple to Glademist....yesterday it was only to Arrius, so at least yesterday EP had a chance, maybe, kinda. Today they ported all the way back to Glademist from Chim temple WITH Chim scroll.

fastolfv_ESO

i believe the bug is dying with scroll in temple lets you release to a friendly keep with the scroll still on you, the first second and third time seeing this happen was ad porting away with a dc scroll so its just going full circle atm, hell maybe its the same guy on a dc toon

OtarTheMad

I would record it if you can, that will help any report. Even if you just have the map open and record the scroll teleporting across the map.

max_only

It’s a bug. If you die while picking it up you can rez and not know it. It’s confirmed it’s a bug because that person a) cannot see the scroll, b) cannot place the scroll down c) has to die or log off for anyone else to see the scroll.

It happens in battlegrounds too. People rez with the chaos ball in their spawn point.

It’s happened to me before.

It’s not like coordinating with AD to double team, public discord spying, and stream sniping Fengrush and others like EP brags about doing. Unintentional bugs aren’t the same as EP intentional underhanded tactics.

NordSwordnBoard

Cavedog wrote: »

Today, the cheater ported from Chim scroll temple to Glademist....yesterday it was only to Arrius, so at least yesterday EP had a chance, maybe, kinda. Today they ported all the way back to Glademist from Chim temple WITH Chim scroll.

I bet they got the hammer next because of course they should! - I mean Volendrung, not the banhammer.

jmgrant44ub17_ESO

I hope you can struggle though and find a way to win the campaign. Maybe AD can help you figure it out.

Cavedog

max_only wrote: »

It’s a bug. If you die while picking it up you can rez and not know it. It’s confirmed it’s a bug because that person a) cannot see the scroll, b) cannot place the scroll down c) has to die or log off for anyone else to see the scroll.

It happens in battlegrounds too. People rez with the chaos ball in their spawn point.

It’s happened to me before.

It’s not like coordinating with AD to double team, public discord spying, and stream sniping Fengrush and others like EP brags about doing. Unintentional bugs aren’t the same as EP intentional underhanded tactics.

So it's exploiting, and against the TOS. ....it's the same guy, same guild every time. They aren't doing it on accident. It's shocking because it's happened so many times and ZOS hasn't done anything.

Cavedog

jmgrant44ub17_ESO wrote: »

I hope you can struggle though and find a way to win the campaign. Maybe AD can help you figure it out.

It's about cheating/exploiting, not an attempted distraction to change the subject.

daemonios

nafensoriel wrote: »

ZOS will never discuss actions taken or even acknowledge an investigation is being conducted.
You report. They do everything else silently and you will never know what actions were taken or what was discovered.
Sometimes it takes more than a day or three to gather evidence or sometimes enforcement is simply delayed so the team can figure out how the heck the exploit is happening so they can close the hole.


Trust me when I say this is a good thing.

No, it is not. Saying absolutely nothing allows rumours to fester that ZOS doesn't actually do anything or sanction anyone. It doesn't have to be either full disclosure or no disclosure at all. They could report aggregate numbers, e.g. x players banned for cheating, y warnings issued. They could be transparent about widespread exploits and heavy handed on offenders, so nobody could claim ignorance. They could name and shame after a sanction has been applied and appeals exhausted, since by then the offence will have been confirmed and naming the offender could (and should IMO) be part of the sanction.

ZOS are slow to act and fail to give any feedback at all. As it stands now, they are simply unaccountable. Some people will cheat with impunity, others will be temp banned for character names (wrong priorities much?). I guess it's all fine as long as (i) they don't have to actually do some work and (ii) they don't have to ban a whale.

Dusk_Coven

nafensoriel wrote: »

ZOS will never discuss actions taken or even acknowledge an investigation is being conducted.
You report. They do everything else silently and you will never know what actions were taken or what was discovered.
Sometimes it takes more than a day or three to gather evidence or sometimes enforcement is simply delayed so the team can figure out how the heck the exploit is happening so they can close the hole.


Trust me when I say this is a good thing.

They do claim to investigate *sometimes*. What we really don't know is if they actually did anything at all. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/502195/dungeon-explorer-costume-removal

VaranisArano

max_only wrote: »

I wish they’d delete pvp from this game honestly. If you die trying to pick up the scroll your name flashes above that you picked it up but there is no message that you’ve dropped it. You can rez anywhere and not even realize it.

Cavedog wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

It’s a bug. If you die while picking it up you can rez and not know it. It’s confirmed it’s a bug because that person a) cannot see the scroll, b) cannot place the scroll down c) has to die or log off for anyone else to see the scroll.

It happens in battlegrounds too. People rez with the chaos ball in their spawn point.

It’s happened to me before.

It’s not like coordinating with AD to double team, public discord spying, and stream sniping Fengrush and others like EP brags about doing. Unintentional bugs aren’t the same as EP intentional underhanded tactics.

So it's exploiting, and against the TOS. ....it's the same guy, same guild every time. They aren't doing it on accident. It's shocking because it's happened so many times and ZOS hasn't done anything.

It’s not exploiting if it’s Zos created lag that is unpredictable. It may be hard to accept that it’s an accident if one has a predetermined bias or prejudice.
As for “same guy”, people who work in teams are dressed for specific roles. Scroll running, healing, quick rezzing, tanking and standing on rams, etc.
Zos lag isn’t not an exploit. Anyone looking at the data will be able to see that. There is nothing the user can actively do to trigger it.

Your what-about-ism doesn’t apply to EP when it’s beneficial.
The same guy on EP uses an alt account to log in, scroll snipe and then run to the slaughterfishes/run to EP side of the map.
EP is in public discord reporting on movements or sending tells that they are watching streams. Solved by reforming a channel through invite only. EP is making back door deals with AD to troll so when they meet on the field they don’t hurt each other and actively help each other. But that’s roleplay right? EP running into Ash not to take it or advance objectives but picking up the scroll, letting Ash unburst and farming with the scroll on the third floor for hours. That’s intended behavior? Or farming with a scroll at the lava, never planning on running it anywhere.

You are free to report, just know nothing will come of it like nothing happens to all those other issues.

Take a moment to pause. Zos lag isn’t an exploit.

Taking advantage of ZOS lag (if that's what you want to call this) or indeed any glitch IS an exploit.

Like your example with the Chaos Ball earlier, there's a major difference between the people who have it happen once and jump down from their base to continue the match as normal vs the people who sit untouchable in the base until they win the match. Its a glitch...but you decide whether or not to exploit by taking advantage of it.

Or for another example - ambushing through keep doors. There's an obvious difference between the people who ambush through and then try to escape vs the people who promptly take advantage and start killing defenders. The latter are exploiting.

If you want to claim this latest is an accident and totally not an exploit, you'd best consider what it looks like if players are NOT taking advantage of the glitch to benefit their faction. Because sure, glitches happen. Taking advantage of them, though, is definitely an exploit.

Dusk_Coven

Cavedog wrote: »

Three days in a row now the same guild, and the same cheater have take Chim scroll then ported from Chim temple to a blue keep far from Chim temple with the scroll.

Video would be great. After all everyone can see where scrolls are on the map so if a scroll is teleport-moved it'll show on the map?

jad11mumbler

There's a video in another thread post. Also Hi Dusk!
It does show on the map.
But generally people don't know they have the scroll until others tell them.

The guild and its players aren't doing it on purpose, but once it does happen and they have the scroll away from the gate, of course they're going to try run it home. Every other alliance would do the same.
I've certainly seen EP bug the DC scrolls out of the temple.

Zos does need to fix this bug though. But until they do everyone is going to use it to their advantage when it does happen.

Ackwalan

Once is a bug, 3 times is a pattern of exploiting.

x48rph

I saw this happen the other day when the gate was closed moments after AD picked up the scroll in No CP. It sort of vanished off the map for a few and then it appeared at AD's base and eventually they brought it out and put in a keep. Obviously it wasn't an intentional exploit but its a bug that really needs fixed.

Dusk_Coven

daemonios wrote: »

No, it is not. Saying absolutely nothing allows rumours to fester that ZOS doesn't actually do anything or sanction anyone. It doesn't have to be either full disclosure or no disclosure at all. They could report aggregate numbers, e.g. x players banned for cheating, y warnings issued. They could be transparent about widespread exploits and heavy handed on offenders, so nobody could claim ignorance. They could name and shame after a sanction has been applied and appeals exhausted, since by then the offence will have been confirmed and naming the offender could (and should IMO) be part of the sanction.

I agree with giving out at least stats and reports, but naming and shaming is too risky because this is ZOS.
The same people who answer your ticket about Hirelings with a cut-and-paste about when AP is awarded.
The same people who bungle an investigation, and also bungle the appeal by not reading any of the evidence and simply adding "final" to their original answer. https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/dwz3de/psa_do_not_use_this_mmo_term_in_eso_forums/

max_only

I’ve said what I said. I know it’s not cheating or exploiting. Zos can see the data and see that it’s not an intentional exploit. That’s all that matters. If your opinion is that people should run the scroll back/chaosball then that’s your opinion and it amounts to as much as that.

When it happened to me I jumped back down with the chaos ball because I didn’t realize. When it happened with the scroll I rezzed at the nearest keep and tried to turn in and found that I couldn’t. It’s literally a bug where no one can see the scroll except on the map.

kryda

You MUST befriend a dev if you want to see something happen. So go do that and then complain to them.

dem0n1k

max_only wrote: »

I wish they’d delete pvp from this game honestly. If you die trying to pick up the scroll your name flashes above that you picked it up but there is no message that you’ve dropped it. You can rez anywhere and not even realize it.

Cavedog wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

It’s a bug. If you die while picking it up you can rez and not know it. It’s confirmed it’s a bug because that person a) cannot see the scroll, b) cannot place the scroll down c) has to die or log off for anyone else to see the scroll.

It happens in battlegrounds too. People rez with the chaos ball in their spawn point.

It’s happened to me before.

It’s not like coordinating with AD to double team, public discord spying, and stream sniping Fengrush and others like EP brags about doing. Unintentional bugs aren’t the same as EP intentional underhanded tactics.

So it's exploiting, and against the TOS. ....it's the same guy, same guild every time. They aren't doing it on accident. It's shocking because it's happened so many times and ZOS hasn't done anything.

It’s not exploiting if it’s Zos created lag that is unpredictable. It may be hard to accept that it’s an accident if one has a predetermined bias or prejudice.
As for “same guy”, people who work in teams are dressed for specific roles. Scroll running, healing, quick rezzing, tanking and standing on rams, etc.
Zos lag isn’t not an exploit. Anyone looking at the data will be able to see that. There is nothing the user can actively do to trigger it.

Your what-about-ism doesn’t apply to EP when it’s beneficial.
The same guy on EP uses an alt account to log in, scroll snipe and then run to the slaughterfishes/run to EP side of the map.
EP is in public discord reporting on movements or sending tells that they are watching streams. Solved by reforming a channel through invite only.
EP is making back door deals with AD to troll so when they meet on the field they don’t hurt each other and actively help each other. But that’s roleplay right?
EP running into Ash not to take it or advance objectives but picking up the scroll, letting Ash unburst and farming with the scroll on the third floor for hours. That’s intended behavior? Or farming with a scroll at the lava, never planning on running it anywhere. Or hiding inside walls or hanging off the back wall ledge.

You are free to report, just know nothing will come of it like nothing happens to all those other issues.

Take a moment to pause. Zos lag isn’t an exploit.

Wait wait... you want PVP to be removed from the game because there is a scroll bug? or because other players think the bug is an exploit? Neither seem like good reasons to remove PVP

Mr_Walker

Just lag brah.

YandereGirlfriend

I saw this happen over the weekend in the non-CP campaign with an AD ball group dying near the Ni-Mokh Temple.

DC re-captured Glademist just after the ball group picked the scroll up from the Temple. Then the gate closed and trapped the AD inside, wiping them.

We celebrated until someone noticed that the actual Scroll was nowhere to be found behind the Gate, and then, about 5 minutes later, the Scroll appeared behind the AD Altadoon Gate, which was closed.

Zone chat erupted with "Don't worry, it will respawn at Ni-Mokh soon just like when it goes in the water" but a half hour went by and it stayed down there.

Soon after, we received notification that the Scroll was picked up by AD and it was transported to Faregyl and deposited, completing the theft of our Scroll by way of glitch/exploit rather than actual PvPing.

It didn't cross my mind to file a Report but if this is indeed a known and repeatable exploit then perhaps I should have.

max_only

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I saw this happen over the weekend in the non-CP campaign with an AD ball group dying near the Ni-Mokh Temple.

DC re-captured Glademist just after the ball group picked the scroll up from the Temple. Then the gate closed and trapped the AD inside, wiping them.

We celebrated until someone noticed that the actual Scroll was nowhere to be found behind the Gate, and then, about 5 minutes later, the Scroll appeared behind the AD Altadoon Gate, which was closed.

Zone chat erupted with "Don't worry, it will respawn at Ni-Mokh soon just like when it goes in the water" but a half hour went by and it stayed down there.

Soon after, we received notification that the Scroll was picked up by AD and it was transported to Faregyl and deposited, completing the theft of our Scroll by way of glitch/exploit rather than actual PvPing.

It didn't cross my mind to file a Report but if this is indeed a known and repeatable exploit then perhaps I should have.

It’s a known bug. It’s not an repeatable exploit.

dem0n1k wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

I wish they’d delete pvp from this game honestly. If you die trying to pick up the scroll your name flashes above that you picked it up but there is no message that you’ve dropped it. You can rez anywhere and not even realize it.

Cavedog wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

It’s a bug. If you die while picking it up you can rez and not know it. It’s confirmed it’s a bug because that person a) cannot see the scroll, b) cannot place the scroll down c) has to die or log off for anyone else to see the scroll.

It happens in battlegrounds too. People rez with the chaos ball in their spawn point.

It’s happened to me before.

It’s not like coordinating with AD to double team, public discord spying, and stream sniping Fengrush and others like EP brags about doing. Unintentional bugs aren’t the same as EP intentional underhanded tactics.

So it's exploiting, and against the TOS. ....it's the same guy, same guild every time. They aren't doing it on accident. It's shocking because it's happened so many times and ZOS hasn't done anything.

It’s not exploiting if it’s Zos created lag that is unpredictable. It may be hard to accept that it’s an accident if one has a predetermined bias or prejudice.
As for “same guy”, people who work in teams are dressed for specific roles. Scroll running, healing, quick rezzing, tanking and standing on rams, etc.
Zos lag isn’t not an exploit. Anyone looking at the data will be able to see that. There is nothing the user can actively do to trigger it.

Your what-about-ism doesn’t apply to EP when it’s beneficial.
The same guy on EP uses an alt account to log in, scroll snipe and then run to the slaughterfishes/run to EP side of the map.
EP is in public discord reporting on movements or sending tells that they are watching streams. Solved by reforming a channel through invite only.
EP is making back door deals with AD to troll so when they meet on the field they don’t hurt each other and actively help each other. But that’s roleplay right?
EP running into Ash not to take it or advance objectives but picking up the scroll, letting Ash unburst and farming with the scroll on the third floor for hours. That’s intended behavior? Or farming with a scroll at the lava, never planning on running it anywhere. Or hiding inside walls or hanging off the back wall ledge.

You are free to report, just know nothing will come of it like nothing happens to all those other issues.

Take a moment to pause. Zos lag isn’t an exploit.

Wait wait... you want PVP to be removed from the game because there is a scroll bug? or because other players think the bug is an exploit? Neither seem like good reasons to remove PVP

I want pvp removed because I’m tired of pvpers lol.

max_only

Cavedog wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I remember an old bug like this where there was some odd gap in some rocks near one of the AD gates and you could just take the scroll and run to the rocks and if you hit the right spot you'd be transported to your base automatically. Maybe it's back?

Supposedly they are bragging about it; claiming it's a bug.....but they keep doing it knowingly on purpose. So at the very least, they are exploiting and bragging about it.

There’s no bragging happening. That is a patent falsehood.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

After removing a few posts due to baiting, we must remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the rules we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

As for those members may feel are cheating, we ask that they use the in-game report feature. Once a report has been submit, they will be reviewed on a case by case basis.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

JamieAubrey

I wonder if he's abusing potions that kill you, as if you die to a potion while letting an NPC hit you ( so you can port to any keep ) you don't drop the scroll and can port to any keep, maybe this is what they do

WhitePawPrints

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After removing a few posts due to baiting, we must remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the rules we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

As for those members may feel are cheating, we ask that they use the in-game report feature. Once a report has been submit, they will be reviewed on a case by case basis.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

The only action we'll see ZoS take: "Don't offend the cheaters. Just deal with it."

max_only wrote: »

Cavedog wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I remember an old bug like this where there was some odd gap in some rocks near one of the AD gates and you could just take the scroll and run to the rocks and if you hit the right spot you'd be transported to your base automatically. Maybe it's back?

Supposedly they are bragging about it; claiming it's a bug.....but they keep doing it knowingly on purpose. So at the very least, they are exploiting and bragging about it.

There’s no bragging happening. That is a patent falsehood.

How on earth do you know that? Are you part of the group of the accused?



All seriousness though, ZoS should take a strong stance against cheaters and exploiters and let it be known. Fallout 76 was crashing but started burning because of Zenimax is incapable of defending their game, which led to very real crimes being committed. For all we know ZoS condones cheaters because they'll make the biggest stink if action is taken against them (entitlement issues, as seen in this thread of saying "bug exist, therefore I'm entitled to exploit it" by some of the users). Better to cater to those who abuse than those who do things legitimately.