What are your feelings on Animation Canceling and LA Weaving

karios525

Envvy wrote: »

Keep animation cancelling in the game, it makes the game so much more fun in fights. Can’t do it? Not our problem. Either learn or don’t do hard content.

Having completed all hard content i am happy to say ac/weaving makes for the most ddull combat system in existence and remember ac only became a thing because zos couldnt fix it, so no if players dont want to do ac and do hard content great as i despise players who just have the childish git gud attitude.

cyclonus11

It would be fine if my character reacted instantly to my commands. As it stands now, LA registers maybe half the time. This is a primary reason why I no longer play a stam DPS character.

(I also get delayed responses to ... jumping. Like I am on my horse trying to take a running jump before I hit the water. My character simply falls in the water, then jumps up & down ... while in the water.)

Ermiq

People just have to finally get the idea behind anti-AC.
It doesn't regard dodge rolls, bar swaps and blocks being able to cancel previous animations. That's totally separate thing.
Anti-AC, in almost every case, is against current instant fire registration that leads to the situations where there's no need to successfully swing a sword or to perform any magical action, the situations where the skill activation is always considered successful by the server right after you've released a button and it doesn't matter if you have interrupted it by block or another skill or anything else. Moreover, it's fully supported by devs now, LA attacks is one of the most efficient attacks in dps spread sheets.
The thing I would like to tell is, in the world of properly implemented animation cancelling there's usually the feature called interruption. It means when you're fighting in a game with proper animation cancelling, you can use a lot of tactical maneuvers like forcibly interrupting your opponents (bashing them or using a special abilities), or making them to dodge roll or block to mitigate your attacks and it makes them to cancel their attacks, etc. That's what people call fine tuned fast paced combat system.
And this is not available in ESO because of one simple reason: in ESO animation cancelling doesn't affect anything except the raw damage numbers. No tactics, no reactionary gameplay, no skill requirements. Nothing but a single mouse click every second that allows you to pull more damage.
Somehow people call ESO's combat "fast paced", probably because they like it when they smash more buttons (it feels so much more action-ish, yeah) and they consider muscle memory a real skill. The combat based on tactics and actual interactions between opponents with actual counter reactions to their actions (the combat that is not possible in ESO) is considered a "slow, turn based" combat.
The problem is, those who say "leave anicancelling alone", they like to pull damage, they want their opponents not being able to counter play, they like combo style gameplay where they just need to press button combinations to successfully hit the target, rinse and repeat, and they don't want to be interrupted, no way.
Anicancelling defense comes out of the self oriented point of view where people only see it from their personal experience. They're not interested in the global combat mechanics, the only thing they care of is their personal ability to feel some action (by pressing more buttons) and feel strength (by performing non interuptable combos).

NordSwordnBoard

eleussinkb16_ESO wrote: »

i play on pc and use both keyboard mouse and xbox controller.
keyboard and mouse usually for hardcore gameplay and xbox when i just wanna lean back in my chair and do some quest.

I find animation canceling an unimmersive, obviously unintended and therefore annoying game mechanic.
Can vouch for 2 friends irl that have literally shelfed this game before any expansions or dlc's were bought for the same reason.

Why am i here? because i happened to stumble on my tiny molag bal statue. I haven't thought about this game in years other than that. It's not a bad game, some designer choices i disagree with like factions not being able to meet eachother outside of cyrodill etc.. but all that i'm able to accept.
Seeing a whole community pretend that an exploit is in fact a feature. Unacceptable. If we all do this we might aswell join ranks with scientology right away. Tom cruise certainly knows how to act like nothings wrong.

1Tamriel changed the thing about seeing other alliances. Did you log in, do one rotation, then log out and come here? Tom Cruise is an actor, of course he knows how to act. If AC really feels like a cult for you, put that Molag Bal statue up on ebay, and move on with your life. ES6 will surely have statues as well as plenty of cults to destroy.

Check this video out before you go again, it may help, it might not. It's kind of a different take on skill animations from PTS: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/511531/how-the-new-block-is-system-going-to-work-explained-by-zos-gilliams-livestream-twitch-video-clip/p1


For the Poll, I'm on PS4. I'm pro-weaving/AC as I would like to override and cancel that last skill with block instead of being one-shot during the animation. Everything else kind of flows from there.

EIGHTS

ESO Server can't handle animation canceling. Server crashed. You are happy now. XD

Casul

I play on PC and Ps4 with controller, love animation canceling. Feels like honing my skills turns into a real damage improvement.

dazee

LA weaving is fine, makes the game more interesting. animation cancelling resulting in a dps increase is one of the biggest issues facing the game however.

Neoealth

I can do it. But I don't enjoy doing it. And i certainly didn't enjoy learning about it through players talking about it.

It annoys me how they make it so if you want to be competitive you must learn it. ZOS endorses AC but does almost nothing to educate it's players about it.

So no, I don't like it. The whole thing reeks of laziness on ZOS's part.

JanTanhide

Fine with me. It's a learned method of damage and can increase dps significantly.

Floyd_Stash

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

1Tamriel changed the thing about seeing other alliances. Did you log in, do one rotation, then log out and come here? Tom Cruise is an actor, of course he knows how to act. If AC really feels like a cult for you, put that Molag Bal statue up on ebay, and move on with your life. ES6 will surely have statues as well as plenty of cults to destroy.

Check this video out before you go again, it may help, it might not. It's kind of a different take on skill animations from PTS: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/511531/how-the-new-block-is-system-going-to-work-explained-by-zos-gilliams-livestream-twitch-video-clip/p1

Just hitting the insightfull button doesn't do justice.
Very busy with my uhm moving*? so haven't really found the time to sink in proper hours to define my complaints yet.
However i am the kind of person that seriously sinks in time on stuff like this to form an actual opinion of value. Wether this is recognized by others i don't care, i do it for myself.
i will check that vid and try to see if my opinion about the way the faction systems are done now has to be adjusted by playing a bit more, thanks for bringing that up.


*am changing houses, english isn't my primary language idk the words to use.

Decimus_Rex

When this first surfaced, Zeni looked into it.
Their reply was (after reading between the lines) We cant fix it so exploit it.
the problem with that is most new players have no idea what it is and get trampled when it comes to PvP.
It was a F$#k it response from Zeni and a lazy solution to allow it to continue.
I still get into ridiculous arguments that Zeni has said , Hey it's a new skill platform.
What a crock.
Zeni just gave up and said it's part of the game now, ENJOY!

Stebarnz

To remove it now would make it a different game!

It is better with it for people who are good its better without it for people who are bad, FACT!

Jayman1000

It comes down to me simply not enjoying that way to play the game. I can animation cancel and LA weave well, but I dont enjoy it. Idk it doesn't feel fun, it feels like... idk. like I feel stressed over it, something I have to do to maximize dps but the process is not fun, and having to do it constantly.

Ermiq

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

I love it. It makes the fights fluid and dynamic. You're not stuck in animations when you have to react to the situation. It's beneficial in both pve and pvp. Since it's already a feature, it's here to stay i chuj.

You don't understand what is all about.
When we say "remove AC" it means remove the current instant registration of the ability that ignores the ability's animation.
Nobody ever asked to remove the ability to move away, dodge roll or block in the middle of an ability animation.
With no AC, if it's done the way we want it to, you're still able to cancel your attack when you want to dodge roll or block or bar swap. And you're not have to stand still while you perform any magic ability, keep firing your attacks while running around, because nobody said you shouldn't.

No AC is NOT equal to WOW-like interrupted casts once you move.
No AC is NOT equal to no dodge roll while performing an attack animation.

isoJs

I play on PC and i like it, I also liked it on xbox when i played there.

Stebarnz

Ermiq wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

I love it. It makes the fights fluid and dynamic. You're not stuck in animations when you have to react to the situation. It's beneficial in both pve and pvp. Since it's already a feature, it's here to stay i chuj.

You don't understand what is all about.
When we say "remove AC" it means remove the current instant registration of the ability that ignores the ability's animation.
Nobody ever asked to remove the ability to move away, dodge roll or block in the middle of an ability animation.
With no AC, if it's done the way we want it to, you're still able to cancel your attack when you want to dodge roll or block or bar swap. And you're not have to stand still while you perform any magic ability, keep firing your attacks while running around, because nobody said you shouldn't.

No AC is NOT equal to WOW-like interrupted casts once you move.
No AC is NOT equal to no dodge roll while performing an attack animation.

That is the current system! Everything that is meant to have a cast time has, crystal blast, dizzy swing, jabs, beam, to name but a few and if you cancel these off mid animation they don't fire, everything else is MEANT to be able to be fired off instantly and followed up with a LA then another skill.

Otherwise it would be like watching the same animations over and over and over slowing the combat down to mindnumbing = boring! My mind is faster than processing 1 thing per second or more, I move at nanosecond pace!

Thedragonlolitucker

theyre never gonna change it lol the game is made around it

MasterSpatula

While I answered "Dislike," Weaving and Canceling are not the same thing. I'm fine with getting a LA in between abilities. I'm less fine with squeezing LAs in what should be considered during the ability.

I've never been crazy about things that give advantages to people with better reflexes/coordination and better connections in what's ostensibly an RPG.

max_only

I play on pc, I don’t intentionally animation cancel or light attack weave.
I appreciate being able to block at the last second.
It doesn’t concern me because I play support roles in everything I do so there isn’t any content (that I want to do) I can’t get done.
My feelings may change if I ever want to be dd, or a bomber, or on leaderboard, or an emperor, etc. which I don’t want. There are methods to cheese through all of those if I ever did want.
It’s a non issue. Allow me to block responsively and I’m good.

TelvanniWizard

AC should also cancel the skill.

SidraWillowsky

WOW, you leaped to character judgments REAL quick...

Ermiq wrote: »

And this is not available in ESO because of one simple reason: in ESO animation cancelling doesn't affect anything except the raw damage numbers. No tactics, no reactionary gameplay, no skill requirements. Nothing but a single mouse click every second that allows you to pull more damage.

So you've got it down perfectly then, I take it?

Ermiq wrote: »

Somehow people call ESO's combat "fast paced", probably because they like it when they smash more buttons (it feels so much more action-ish, yeah) and they consider muscle memory a real skill.

People who have animation canceling perfected are doing ANYTHING but mashing buttons. Theasiangod has a video of his hands while he does a parse and it's slow and controlled.

No one is saying that muscle memory is a skill. Getting something to become muscle memory, while not skill-based per se, takes a lot of work. I've put a ton of work into my LA weaving/ani cancelling. I don't think that that makes me more skilled than anyone. It just means that I practiced, and if you practice at anything, you'll usually get better at it.

Ermiq wrote: »

The problem is, those who say "leave anicancelling alone", they like to pull damage,

No kidding?!?!? DDs usually hate dealing damage.

Ermiq wrote: »

they want their opponents not being able to counter play,

No.

Ermiq wrote: »

they like combo style gameplay where they just need to press button combinations to successfully hit the target, rinse and repeat,

No. And if you're not animation cancelling, are you not just pressing ONE button instead of two?

Ermiq wrote: »

and they don't want to be interrupted, no way.

Again, nobody does.

Ermiq wrote: »

Anicancelling defense comes out of the self oriented point of view where people only see it from their personal experience. They're not interested in the global combat mechanics, the only thing they care of is their personal ability to feel some action (by pressing more buttons) and feel strength (by performing non interuptable combos).

This doesn't even make sense.

Ermiq

Stebarnz wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

I love it. It makes the fights fluid and dynamic. You're not stuck in animations when you have to react to the situation. It's beneficial in both pve and pvp. Since it's already a feature, it's here to stay i chuj.

You don't understand what is all about.
When we say "remove AC" it means remove the current instant registration of the ability that ignores the ability's animation.
Nobody ever asked to remove the ability to move away, dodge roll or block in the middle of an ability animation.
With no AC, if it's done the way we want it to, you're still able to cancel your attack when you want to dodge roll or block or bar swap. And you're not have to stand still while you perform any magic ability, keep firing your attacks while running around, because nobody said you shouldn't.

No AC is NOT equal to WOW-like interrupted casts once you move.
No AC is NOT equal to no dodge roll while performing an attack animation.

That is the current system! Everything that is meant to have a cast time has, crystal blast, dizzy swing, jabs, beam, to name but a few and if you cancel these off mid animation they don't fire, everything else is MEANT to be able to be fired off instantly and followed up with a LA then another skill.

Otherwise it would be like watching the same animations over and over and over slowing the combat down to mindnumbing = boring! My mind is faster than processing 1 thing per second or more, I move at nanosecond pace!

You miss one little thing here: you still have to wait for the same 1 second cooldown anyway.
With no AC it's: click-1sec-click-1sec-click.
With AC it's: click-click-1sec-click-click-1sec-click-click-1sec.
Speaking of animations: with AC you still see one animation during the cooldown. Sure, there's also a cutted short part of a cancelled LA animation, but the most time during the GCD you just see the animation. Except the times when you skip it by a block, dodge or bar swap.

fred4

It remains a futile topic. Why even make a poll?

The above probably doesn't make my position clear. Do I like the combat in this game? Yes.

Do I think you can remove animation cancelling without drastically changing combat responsiveness for the worse or without rebalancing many armor sets, skills and PvE content? Nope.

TL;DR: It's never going to happen.

Stebarnz

Ermiq wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

I love it. It makes the fights fluid and dynamic. You're not stuck in animations when you have to react to the situation. It's beneficial in both pve and pvp. Since it's already a feature, it's here to stay i chuj.

You don't understand what is all about.
When we say "remove AC" it means remove the current instant registration of the ability that ignores the ability's animation.
Nobody ever asked to remove the ability to move away, dodge roll or block in the middle of an ability animation.
With no AC, if it's done the way we want it to, you're still able to cancel your attack when you want to dodge roll or block or bar swap. And you're not have to stand still while you perform any magic ability, keep firing your attacks while running around, because nobody said you shouldn't.

No AC is NOT equal to WOW-like interrupted casts once you move.
No AC is NOT equal to no dodge roll while performing an attack animation.

That is the current system! Everything that is meant to have a cast time has, crystal blast, dizzy swing, jabs, beam, to name but a few and if you cancel these off mid animation they don't fire, everything else is MEANT to be able to be fired off instantly and followed up with a LA then another skill.

Otherwise it would be like watching the same animations over and over and over slowing the combat down to mindnumbing = boring! My mind is faster than processing 1 thing per second or more, I move at nanosecond pace!

You miss one little thing here: you still have to wait for the same 1 second cooldown anyway.
With no AC it's: click-1sec-click-1sec-click.
With AC it's: click-click-1sec-click-click-1sec-click-click-1sec.
Speaking of animations: with AC you still see one animation during the cooldown and it's LA animation. Sure, there's also a cutted short part of a cancelled ability animation, but the most time during the GCD you see an LA animation.

So whats your problem if that's how you see it? (which is wrong but lets go with it).

Because your description gives no advantage so why MAKE me watch a silly animation?

Tigerseye

I may have to do it, but I don't have to like it.

Azurya

More important are those hunks that use makros in pvp,
curse them.

MajThorax

I was always terrible at this anyway so nevermind. After years I can only reach 35k with my magsorc on a dummy alone, so I ve decided to quit trying.

EIGHTS

Ermiq wrote: »

You miss one little thing here: you still have to wait for the same 1 second cooldown anyway.
With no AC it's: click-1sec-click-1sec-click.
With AC it's: click-click-1sec-click-click-1sec-click-click-1sec.
Speaking of animations: with AC you still see one animation during the cooldown and it's LA animation. Sure, there's also a cutted short part of a cancelled ability animation, but the most time during the GCD you see an LA animation.

Not really.

If you use it well, you don't get any cooldown. Every skills will fire when you press a key (if you use some tool to help you).
That maybe 4 to 5 skills as usual or 20 and above skills if you can.

x48rph

I hate it but my feeling is your mostly stuck with it regardless. It's not going to go away completely. People claim it takes so much skill to do and in a way it does but not in a constructive way. Your simply training your muscle memory to rapidly click/press buttons in order. That has nothing to do with knowing the game, and knowing when it's best to use such abilities, which work best together, ect, ect.., it's just more a matter of how quick and nimble your fingers are.

Ermiq

Stebarnz wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

I love it. It makes the fights fluid and dynamic. You're not stuck in animations when you have to react to the situation. It's beneficial in both pve and pvp. Since it's already a feature, it's here to stay i chuj.

You don't understand what is all about.
When we say "remove AC" it means remove the current instant registration of the ability that ignores the ability's animation.
Nobody ever asked to remove the ability to move away, dodge roll or block in the middle of an ability animation.
With no AC, if it's done the way we want it to, you're still able to cancel your attack when you want to dodge roll or block or bar swap. And you're not have to stand still while you perform any magic ability, keep firing your attacks while running around, because nobody said you shouldn't.

No AC is NOT equal to WOW-like interrupted casts once you move.
No AC is NOT equal to no dodge roll while performing an attack animation.

That is the current system! Everything that is meant to have a cast time has, crystal blast, dizzy swing, jabs, beam, to name but a few and if you cancel these off mid animation they don't fire, everything else is MEANT to be able to be fired off instantly and followed up with a LA then another skill.

Otherwise it would be like watching the same animations over and over and over slowing the combat down to mindnumbing = boring! My mind is faster than processing 1 thing per second or more, I move at nanosecond pace!

You miss one little thing here: you still have to wait for the same 1 second cooldown anyway.
With no AC it's: click-1sec-click-1sec-click.
With AC it's: click-click-1sec-click-click-1sec-click-click-1sec.
Speaking of animations: with AC you still see one animation during the cooldown and it's LA animation. Sure, there's also a cutted short part of a cancelled ability animation, but the most time during the GCD you see an LA animation.

So whats your problem if that's how you see it? (which is wrong but lets go with it).

Because your description gives no advantage so why MAKE me watch a silly animation?

It was you who said "[No AC] would be like watching the same animations over and over and over slowing the combat down to mindnumbing = boring", right?
I answered to this (yours) statement: with AC you still see the same animations again and again and again.

My problem with AC has been already described in my previous posts in this thread (not to mention hundreds of other posts from other people all over across these forums). Sorry, but I'm not going to repeat it more than once in a day. You (not you personally but AC defenders in general) don't read them carefully anyway, because if you have read them, you wouldn't ask same questions again and again.