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Lopsided Victories (Gray Host) PC NA

Icarus42
Icarus42
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Let me start by saying, I have been an EP loyalist since 2014.

This is just an observation.

It seems since faction lock has been implemented that every campaign score has been extremely lopsided. If I remember correctly AD was doing very well at first, but since then EP has been steamrolling the other factions hard. I don't know if its entirely due to the faction lock, but it seems to be the cause.

My guess is that since EP started to beat much butt that more people chose EP characters for the win so to speak.. Anyway I digress, because of this IMO faction lock campaign has become boring. Every time I log on EP is winning by a 10k margin. I guess if you are like me, and want a point challenge there is no incentive when you are winning by 10k, have all the scrolls and the whole map is red. As a result I hardly PvP anymore, because bringing a beat down to an opponent that is already bleeding poses no interest for me.

I see some AD blob groups occasionally, and some good small man DC stuff happening but they are not presenting a challenge. Does anyone else out there feel like I do? Or am I wrong and faction lock has nothing to do with these blowout victories?

What can we do as a community to bring the fun, excitement, and challenge of a close scoring game back? Is faction lock a good thing or a bad? I think we need to bring this discussion back to the table.

Anyway thanks for listening, this has been on my mind for some time.
Edited by Icarus42 on March 12, 2020 9:22PM
Ebonheart Pact - PC NA - Magicka Sorcerer
  • Kagukan
    Kagukan
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    I only play PC NA during prime time so can't speak for what happens at other hours. But from what I see, much of why EP has been winning is due to a feud between DC and AD. On the rare moments when DC and AD actually decide to push EP I have seen EP pushed back to the gates.
  • idk
    idk
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    Gilvoth wrote: »
    faction lock is working great and has nothing to do with the campaign scores.
    if you dont like the faction lock then please go to the unlocked campaign.

    It does seem they are just making an observation. They should be express their thoughts as such without being told where they should go play. In fact it seems absurd to do so since they seem only interested in getting more players active.

    Also, to suggest faction lock has nothing to do with campaign scores is the same as saying that the campaign scores were never effected by the lack of faction lock. It seems those that wanted faction lock would disagree with you as their central theme was the lack of faction locks did effect score (which seemed more brining balance to the score).

    So to OP. Start organizing players in your alliance. Work to get more players more active in your campaign. Create cross faction alliances with other guilds to help each others goals. However, Cyrodiil PvP was never intended to be truly competitive. Imbalance is expected
    Really, idk
  • Ranger209
    Ranger209
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    idk wrote: »
    Ranger209 wrote: »
    idk wrote: »

    Also, to suggest faction lock has nothing to do with campaign scores is the same as saying that the campaign scores were never effected by the lack of faction lock.

    Without faction lock the score has no meaning whatsoever.

    With or without faction lock the score has no meaning. It is merely symbolic since the design of Cyrodiill is not intended to create a truly competitive.

    Heck, being on top of the leaderboard merely demonstrating the person was the most active, not the best skilled, says it all. The alliance that wins a campaign was just the one who was most active when it mattered most.

    It does not mean they played better when the numbers were more balanced or were more skilled. Just symbolic as the goal of Cyrodiil is to offer an open world PvP feel.

    It was designed to be competitive, but not in the way you are thinking. The competition isn't about who is the most skilled, nor individual battle results. Dueling and BG's are geared toward individual and small man competition. In Cyrodiil the competition is between the alliances and was designed and intended to be so. AvAvA is a different kind of competition than just straight up PvP. It's about map control over long periods of time. It is currently very flawed, and needs addressing, but the first step in addressing it was reinstituting faction locks to some degree. On an unlocked server you are right this type of competition cannot exist. AvAvA is meaningless when you can switch alliances. That type of competition goes out the door at that point.
    Edited by Ranger209 on February 12, 2020 6:29PM
  • ServerusEcru
    ServerusEcru
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    It is definitely not because of the faction lock. The Faction lock is great and we should continue to support it. The reason why EP is winning by such a large margin and I am speaking from the NA/PC Kaalgrondtiid perspective; because whenever DC is defending Ales from EP, AD pushes DC and takes Ash and Glade and then takes their scrolls. DC can never win because both factions are hitting them at the same time. Sadly, EP and AD never fight each other in prime hours. Also when EP takes DC scrolls during the after hours, they trade scrolls to AD and let them have second place. AD as a faction have become lackey opportunist who wait on EP to make their move; indeed they would rather settle for second place instead of push EP. This is why EP is doing so well, truth be told.

    My suggestion to ZOS, to make things more competitive, is to introduce a fourth faction that is knee deep in AD territory. This will force AD to have to fight that fourth faction instead of pushing DC. Then DC and EP can have equal fights. Or vice-versa. A way to stop 3 factions bullying the weak is to lock them in the beginning of the campaign. Example, each faction can only declare war against a single faction; so once you attack that opposing faction you can not attack any other factions for 15 days in the 30 day campaign; the last 15 days you can choose to wage war against another faction; so you can be strategic. Then the other two factions will have no choice but to fight each other. I believe this idea will not only create balance, but it will also be more competitive and it will help the latency that makes the server unplayable, because of the massive zergs squabbling in one area. Cyrodiil is so huge, finally we can have some small scale meaningful fights, spread off across the realm, instead of all the factions in major areas.

    Thoughts....

    @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    @ZOS_GinaBruno
    "Train your opponent to make the wrong response." — The Book of Circles, By Loredas Maxims
    NA/PC/ Order of the Candle
  • DUTCH_REAPER
    DUTCH_REAPER
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    To the OP there are many who are already declaring they will be playing on another faction this upcoming campaign. Hopefully then maybe things will settle and it won’t be so lopsided.




  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    Wing wrote: »
    homicide (one of the two omegalul zerg guilds left in the game, the other being apes of the pact) got mad because AD kept talking crap about them (in zone and otherwise) and told them to bugger off (yes, AD does not like zerg guilds either, not even when they are on our side)

    There are still many tabards out there, but AotP doesn't really exist as a group anymore. Now EP has GAO, a zone pug. Kush is back the past few days and we'll see how that turns out. Let the zone pug war begin.

    DC has Homi and Chapterhouse, who always seem to be in the same place along with said streamer. Which means functionally DC moves as an entire faction stack in prime time, and makes their objectives easy pickings behind them.

    PC NA
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    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka Sorcerer
  • FENGRUSH
    FENGRUSH
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    I still dont understand how people care about campaign score in 2020. These campaigns have all been renamed, deleted, removed, with no record anywhere, ever.

    The only thing that matters on the battlefield is glory. Whenever the orcs take the battlefield, glory is obtained.

    This is about the only accurate representation of what happens in kaal:
    It is definitely not because of the faction lock. The Faction lock is great and we should continue to support it. The reason why EP is winning by such a large margin and I am speaking from the NA/PC Kaalgrondtiid perspective; because whenever DC is defending Ales from EP, AD pushes DC and takes Ash and Glade and then takes their scrolls. DC can never win because both factions are hitting them at the same time. Sadly, EP and AD never fight each other in prime hours. Also when EP takes DC scrolls during the after hours, they trade scrolls to AD and let them have second place. AD as a faction have become lackey opportunist who wait on EP to make their move; indeed they would rather settle for second place instead of push EP. This is why EP is doing so well, truth be told.

    At the end of the day, once two factions team up on one - and we've already won. People come for the champions on top. Mix in some night cap and youll explain whatever meaningless score you'd like. My advice - focus on getting good fights, the campaign score wont mean anything next month or next year to you or anyone else. In a month or year from now, every EP and AD will remember the orcs. Because theyve laid waste to every member of both factions countless times.
  • Minnesinger
    Minnesinger
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    It is definitely not because of the faction lock. The Faction lock is great and we should continue to support it. The reason why EP is winning by such a large margin and I am speaking from the NA/PC Kaalgrondtiid perspective; because whenever DC is defending Ales from EP, AD pushes DC and takes Ash and Glade and then takes their scrolls. DC can never win because both factions are hitting them at the same time. Sadly, EP and AD never fight each other in prime hours. Also when EP takes DC scrolls during the after hours, they trade scrolls to AD and let them have second place. AD as a faction have become lackey opportunist who wait on EP to make their move; indeed they would rather settle for second place instead of push EP. This is why EP is doing so well, truth be told.

    My suggestion to ZOS, to make things more competitive, is to introduce a fourth faction that is knee deep in AD territory. This will force AD to have to fight that fourth faction instead of pushing DC. Then DC and EP can have equal fights. Or vice-versa. A way to stop 3 factions bullying the weak is to lock them in the beginning of the campaign. Example, each faction can only declare war against a single faction; so once you attack that opposing faction you can not attack any other factions for 15 days in the 30 day campaign; the last 15 days you can choose to wage war against another faction; so you can be strategic. Then the other two factions will have no choice but to fight each other. I believe this idea will not only create balance, but it will also be more competitive and it will help the latency that makes the server unplayable, because of the massive zergs squabbling in one area. Cyrodiil is so huge, finally we can have some small scale meaningful fights, spread off across the realm, instead of all the factions in major areas.

    Thoughts....

    @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    What reasonable proof you have to back up your claim that the 4th faction would focus on AD? It could be vice versa and instead of 2 factions pushing, say, Dc, you would have to deal with 3 factions. Of course, you can add any imaginable force there to help DC but the fact is that DC has fallen to the 3rd place thanks to their own actions. Maybe you just don´t spend enough time in Cyrodiil to have an accurate picture. AD and EP do fight against each other. The oppostunist claim is partly true as DC comes and goes in one big stack leaving way open to push them when they focus on one of the 2 fronts. There is not much you can do but start rethinking your strategy.
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  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
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    Most of the players that would be balancing score simply play the game less. I know I do, and don't care about who wins. The campaign is just a testing ground for BG builds for me.
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    It is really sad that DC has come to this. And like it is previously mentioned, it is due to the actions of 2 guilds. I have come to the realization that DC will forever be at dead last until such guilds either end the AD crusade, leave kaal, or quit all together. When that happens, I hope that both EP and AD will not turn their anger to the rest of the DC who have been continuously suffering from the consequences from the actions of such 2 guilds.
  • DUTCH_REAPER
    DUTCH_REAPER
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    Some people, myself included, do care about a campaign. I don’t want to see one faction steam rolling they all the time. Well evenly stacked factions allow for solid tactics and fun game play. I understand every single time there is one faction more powerful than the other every month wether it is due to solid guilds or more player base at a specific time. But until ZOS gives MUCH better incentives for winning I truly don’t see it changing unfortunately. Which is a shame. I mean currently EP is so far in the lead all I do is drop Ice Trebs to fight off attackers. Because we all know Ice trebs are OP. It would be interesting to see zos actually display player numbers who are locked into campaigns. But of course that could bite us in h Th e butt as well I reckon.




  • KINGOFTHESKULLS
    Wing wrote: »
    FENGRUSH wrote: »
    I still dont understand how people care about campaign score in 2020. These campaigns have all been renamed, deleted, removed, with no record anywhere, ever.

    The only thing that matters on the battlefield is glory. Whenever the orcs take the battlefield, glory is obtained.

    This is about the only accurate representation of what happens in kaal:
    It is definitely not because of the faction lock. The Faction lock is great and we should continue to support it. The reason why EP is winning by such a large margin and I am speaking from the NA/PC Kaalgrondtiid perspective; because whenever DC is defending Ales from EP, AD pushes DC and takes Ash and Glade and then takes their scrolls. DC can never win because both factions are hitting them at the same time. Sadly, EP and AD never fight each other in prime hours. Also when EP takes DC scrolls during the after hours, they trade scrolls to AD and let them have second place. AD as a faction have become lackey opportunist who wait on EP to make their move; indeed they would rather settle for second place instead of push EP. This is why EP is doing so well, truth be told.

    At the end of the day, once two factions team up on one - and we've already won. People come for the champions on top. Mix in some night cap and youll explain whatever meaningless score you'd like. My advice - focus on getting good fights, the campaign score wont mean anything next month or next year to you or anyone else. In a month or year from now, every EP and AD will remember the orcs. Because theyve laid waste to every member of both factions countless times.

    @FENGRUSH

    hey yo, I watch your streams and am a big fan even being from a different faction.

    but anytime anyone throws any legit criticism your (OR DC's) way you just laugh it off and counter with what sounds akin to modern day political backlash and dismissiveness, its very much "yellow elf bad! cat man bad!" if you know what I mean and it becomes hard to watch. you and your group have become kind of "jocks" in the 80's negative connotation of talking about how great you are and being really cringe with "1v1 me bruh!" anytime anyone says anything.

    further more

    your the zerg now, I understand you pretty much cannot solo and get it. but your a 12-24 man stack with other zergs and pugs following you, I know you don't control that to an extent, but it is what it is.

    and because you are this big raid followed by pugs people don't really have respect for the orc army, its just the annoying blob that everyone kind of waits to log off to go back to playing, its just an omegazerg and will go down as much. like I said, control of the people that want to follow you and fight with you is not something you have, but that does not change what is.

    DC will zerg itself into last place

    again

    and every time will talk mad smack about how awesome they are and how bad everyone else is

    from last place

    again

    add a delay to the stream 15 mins ? 30 mins ? fixs a lot of issues.
    Prevents pugs from following mindlessly.
    So it is controllable.
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  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    Wing wrote: »
    FENGRUSH wrote: »
    I still dont understand how people care about campaign score in 2020. These campaigns have all been renamed, deleted, removed, with no record anywhere, ever.

    The only thing that matters on the battlefield is glory. Whenever the orcs take the battlefield, glory is obtained.

    This is about the only accurate representation of what happens in kaal:
    It is definitely not because of the faction lock. The Faction lock is great and we should continue to support it. The reason why EP is winning by such a large margin and I am speaking from the NA/PC Kaalgrondtiid perspective; because whenever DC is defending Ales from EP, AD pushes DC and takes Ash and Glade and then takes their scrolls. DC can never win because both factions are hitting them at the same time. Sadly, EP and AD never fight each other in prime hours. Also when EP takes DC scrolls during the after hours, they trade scrolls to AD and let them have second place. AD as a faction have become lackey opportunist who wait on EP to make their move; indeed they would rather settle for second place instead of push EP. This is why EP is doing so well, truth be told.

    At the end of the day, once two factions team up on one - and we've already won. People come for the champions on top. Mix in some night cap and youll explain whatever meaningless score you'd like. My advice - focus on getting good fights, the campaign score wont mean anything next month or next year to you or anyone else. In a month or year from now, every EP and AD will remember the orcs. Because theyve laid waste to every member of both factions countless times.

    @FENGRUSH

    hey yo, I watch your streams and am a big fan even being from a different faction.

    but anytime anyone throws any legit criticism your (OR DC's) way you just laugh it off and counter with what sounds akin to modern day political backlash and dismissiveness, its very much "yellow elf bad! cat man bad!" if you know what I mean and it becomes hard to watch. you and your group have become kind of "jocks" in the 80's negative connotation of talking about how great you are and being really cringe with "1v1 me bruh!" anytime anyone says anything.

    further more

    your the zerg now, I understand you pretty much cannot solo and get it. but your a 12-24 man stack with other zergs and pugs following you, I know you don't control that to an extent, but it is what it is.

    and because you are this big raid followed by pugs people don't really have respect for the orc army, its just the annoying blob that everyone kind of waits to log off to go back to playing, its just an omegazerg and will go down as much. like I said, control of the people that want to follow you and fight with you is not something you have, but that does not change what is.

    DC will zerg itself into last place

    again

    and every time will talk mad smack about how awesome they are and how bad everyone else is

    from last place

    again

    add a delay to the stream 15 mins ? 30 mins ? fixs a lot of issues.
    Prevents pugs from following mindlessly.
    So it is controllable.

    Pugs don't need to watch a stream to move to the next keep in a line. Groups are more than capable of finding fights away from pugs if they wish to whether they stream or not. Frontline zerging will never be "away from pugs".
    @Solar_Breeze
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    EU ~ Izanagi: AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad
  • technohic
    technohic
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    So lets see if I understand this correctly; I play Kaal a LOT during off hours. First of all, WHEN Fengrush plays Kaal, thats the only time DC is relevant. And 9 out of 10 times, he doesnt achieve much, and goes elsewhere when the lag is too bad. I cant remember the last time his group got DC an emperor. His group IS, on the other hand, quite a handful for pugs, and likes. But isnt Dracarys, TYR, etc. the same? Only difference is they dont stream (well, TYR does), or they arent as popular.

    Now. When he ISNT playing, which is 20 out of 24 hours, DC is doublefactioned without scrolls somewhere around Glademist most of the time. AD rarely cross Niben river, and when DC tries to tale either Aleswell or Ash back, the opposite faction will hit dc keeps. Often both and and ep will try to gate DC.

    I find the whole discussion the epithome of hypocritic behaviour. Youre ALL ok with ganging up on DC, but when DC fighst back and smacks you around, its unfair, its toxic, its zerging.

    I will tell you what a Zerg is; A zerg is what Ahtu pulls off every day in the afternoon, where ep in a matter of a quarter caps averything DC to the scrolls, and them too. They can easily field 70-80 ep in that zerg. Against normally 10-15 dc. But thats fair isnt it, cause he isnt streaming it.

    I will also tell you how you are belitteling yourself when you come here to the public forums crying and whining about DC having the uppercut of you two factions for a mere two hours of the day, every now and often. Its not even on a regular basis. If I were you, Id be ashamed. Id take a long deep look in the mirror, and try to figure out HOW COME, theres actually any DC bothering to play, being double factioned, Tbagged, hatewhispered called a zerger every *** day for months now. Then I would call for those at ad and ep who want a FIGHT, to join DC, cause thats where theres PvP.


    Edit; and if theres any need to back my claims, check the score. DC being more than 10k points behind the other two alliances for the last month proves who does the zerging.

    I don't know about the being able to look at themselves in the mirror stuff but it is hypocritical to chose to go for payback when most of the people who got zerged probably are logged off, as well as the people doing the zerging as they played in the daytime. Just an excuse by AD to whine and EP to willingly accept AD giving them first place over salty tears.

    Let them come. If DC can let go of the frustration and band together, it means we have fights delivered to our doorstep.
    Technohic - DC Templar
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    Tech No Hic - DC Warden
    Necrohic - DC Necromancer
  • killimandrosb16_ESO
    killimandrosb16_ESO
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    This is Kaal right now. This is how DC is zerging the map?

    https://imgshare.io/image/screenshot-20200210-170527.Lw9oF

    This is more or less how map looks like during the off hours. When afternoon NA kick in, AD gets back their scrolls, and keeps up to Sejanus. Theres rarely any fights cross Niben river. Then during prime time, we get the *** all tree factions stacking at Glademist-lag. Unless F balances the map for DC just before he logs off. Then, what happens? half an hour later, were all back at Glademist.
    Edited by killimandrosb16_ESO on February 10, 2020 4:14PM
  • technohic
    technohic
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    This is Kaal right now. This is how DC is zerging the map?

    https://imgshare.io/image/screenshot-20200210-170527.Lw9oF

    This is more or less how map looks like during the off hours. When afternoon NA kick in, AD gets back their scrolls, and keeps up to Sejanus. Theres rarely any fights cross Niben river. Then during prime time, we get the *** all tree factions stacking at Glademist-lag. Unless F balances the map for DC just before he logs off. Then, what happens? half an hour later, were all back at Glademist.

    LOL Hilarious. I play prime time and have no idea what goes on through the day as probably most who are on then dont; but seeing this, and yet AD is mad at DC?

    This really is about the Aldmeri Dramaqueens doing what they do. Even the group they have the biggest beef with on DC is really an AD guild that flipped over.
    Technohic - DC Templar
    Technohicz - DC Nightblade
    Technohix - DC Sorc
    TechDKnohic - DC DK
    Tech No Hic - DC Warden
    Necrohic - DC Necromancer
This discussion has been closed.