Does it matter which is heavy/medium for 5/1/1 combo?

CrashTest

For the Undaunted passive, Magicka character wearing 5/1/1 combo, does it matter for head and shoulder pieces which is heavy and which is medium?

I have heavy shoulders and medium head, but was wondering if heavy head and medium shoulders would be better or if there's no difference.

Thanks

Raisin

I'm just gonna edit this post now. Read the thread before commenting. The correct answer is like 3 posts down and doesn't need to be repeated 20 times.

caperb

Like Raisin said, it doesn't matter.

For this reason I use heavy chest and medium legs on light armour 5/1/1 pvp builds with a crafted set, extra resistances. It is also the reason why a lot of trial tanks use an alkosh belt, because the waist slot has the least resistances anyway and by slotting a medium armour piece there they lose the least resistances.

Beardimus

@SydneyGrey @caperb I'm sorry by @Raisin is incorrect.

It doesn't matter at all. Check your stats, head and shoulders are the same resistances, there's no gain from either setup.

I thought the same for years and went to great lengths to get heavy head, medium shoulders for max gain. Untill I actually read the resistances both offer!!!

I'm guessing it either did once or some streamer said it and everyone started to follow. But there is no difference.

KaraBela94

The only piece which grants the most resistance when beeing heavy is the chest other "big parts" doesnt matter

Shoulder and Helmet got the same resistance stats at medium/light or heavy

Sorry if someone earlier wrote it ...aint read everything

NupidStoob

Chest gives most resistances followed by head, shoulder, legs, feet followed by arms followed by belt.

Tier 1: Chest
Tier 2: Head, Shoulder, Legs, Feet
Tier 3: Arms
Tier 4: Belt

If you use 5 light the best possible setup is heavy chest and medium head, shoulder, legs or feet, rest light.

If you use 5 medium the best possible setup is heavy chest and light belt, rest medium.

If you use 5 heavy the best possible setup is medium gloves and light belt, rest heavy.

The only thing you are maximizing with this is resistances and the differences are rather small.

Now you gotta keep in mind that dropped sets only come in one weight which often limits your builds and is the mainreason why you see pretty much every build that uses 5 light use the monsterset in heavy and medium. Crafted sets ofc give more freedom, but if you use a heavy chest piece on one of the setups and not on others you also always have to carry an additional light monster set piece for a very limited benefit.

Due to the minmaxing you can get some rather interesting setups:

A healer without arena weapons that wears a combination of a dropped heavy and light set. For example Ebon + any of the healer sets:

Ebon chest + 2 pieces of jewelry + weapons, one monster set piece medium and rest light.


A healer without arena weapons that wears a combination of a dropped medium and light set. For example Hircine + any of the healer sets:

Hircine Chest + 2 pieces of jewelry + weapons, one monster set piece heavy and rest light.


A tank without arena weapons that wears a combination of a dropped heavy and light set. For example Worm + any of the tank sets:

Worm Belt + 2 pieces of jewelry + weapons, one monster set piece medium and rest heavy.


Now also keep in mind that this is only useful if you actually want to use a 5-1-1 setup.



Something that people also often confuse with this is enchants. Enchants are more potent on "big pieces" which are chest, legs and head, however this does not interfere with resistances at all.

SydneyGrey

I'd always heard that yes, it does matter. Head is a little more weighted towards protecting your character, so it's better to use a heavy head and medium shoulders.
*Edit* Hmmm ... this might be wrong. Read NupidStoob's excellent post below.

Raisin

Beardimus wrote: »

@SydneyGrey @caperb I'm sorry by @Raisin is incorrect.

It doesn't matter at all. Check your stats, head and shoulders are the same resistances, there's no gain from either setup.

I thought the same for years and went to great lengths to get heavy head, medium shoulders for max gain. Untill I actually read the resistances both offer!!!

I'm guessing it either did once or some streamer said it and everyone started to follow. But there is no difference.

Interesting. Gonna have to check later when I'm home.

Edit: From what I saw on BuildEditor, it looks like only Chest has the higher bonus, while Legs and Head only count as big pieces for Enchants, not resistances.

starkerealm

If you have the option, go for heavy chest, medium legs (someone will have to verify I'm remembering this one correctly.) With your head and shoulders in light. Granted, you probably won't have the option to do this, unless you're using a crafted set on your body, or your weapon/jewelry set is unusual.

For a Stam character, usually you want a heavy chest and light belt if you can swing it.

I forget what the preferred Tank 5/1/1 is. I want to say it's still a light belt, and then, medium gloves? I'm honestly not sure off hand.

Like I said, this normally isn't an option. If you're running something like FGD + Mother's Sorrow, you're out of luck. However, if you're running something like FGD + NMA, you could easily grab a heavy NMA chest, and medium NMA legs.

CAB_Life

Chest should always be heavy, if mixed weight sets, as it gives you the most possible resistances.

Eliahnus

I let it depend on the weight of the monster set that I'm fetching.

Bucky_13

NupidStoob wrote: »

Chest gives most resistances followed by head, shoulder, legs, feet followed by arms followed by belt.

Tier 1: Chest
Tier 2: Head, Shoulder, Legs, Feet
Tier 3: Arms
Tier 4: Belt

This is correct. It's easy to check in game by going to a crafting station, preview crafting armors and check the resistances if one is unsure.

SpacemanSpiff1

NupidStoob wrote: »

Chest gives most resistances followed by head, shoulder, legs, feet followed by arms followed by belt.

Tier 1: Chest
Tier 2: Head, Shoulder, Legs, Feet
Tier 3: Arms
Tier 4: Belt

~snipped~
Now you gotta keep in mind that dropped sets only come in one weight which often limits your builds and is the mainreason why you see pretty much every build that uses 5 light use the monster set in heavy and medium. Crafted sets ofc give more freedom, but if you use a heavy chest piece on one of the setups and not on others you also always have to carry an additional light monster set piece for a very limited benefit.

~snipped~

This is correct.
(snipped for brevity)

SORjosh

.

Nestor

I always go Heavy Chest, if I can. It really comes down to what weights the Monster Pieces I have as to the rest of the mix.

In other words, with 5,1,1 I will give up the Heavy Chest if the Monster Piece i have is Heavy and the set is a pain to farm.

With 5,2 then I go Heavy Chest and do some key farming if I need to make the Monster set work.

PvE Tank, its always 7 Heavy. Period.

BalticBlues

starkerealm wrote: »

I forget what the preferred Tank 5/1/1 is. I want to say it's still a light belt, and then, medium gloves? I'm honestly not sure off hand.

As Tank, I experimented a lot, finally I am only playing 7 pieces HeavyArmor.
This is because a Tank really needs all the resistance, life and regeneration he can get from 7 pieces Heavy.

Iskiab

It absolutely matters. There was one answer that was almost right.

There are only 3 possible combinations for a good setup using 5 light.

1. Chest should be heavy, medium helm or legs (using a crafted set)
2. Helm heavy and medium shoulders (using 2 light sets)
3. Chest heavy, medium helm (using a heavy set)

The armour you get per slot goes:

Chest > Helm and Legs > shoulders and boots > hands > belt (belt should always be light no matter what build you run unless you’re 5m-2h)

starkerealm

BalticBlues wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I forget what the preferred Tank 5/1/1 is. I want to say it's still a light belt, and then, medium gloves? I'm honestly not sure off hand.

As Tank, I experimented a lot, finally I am only playing 7 pieces HeavyArmor.
This is because a Tank really needs all the resistance, life and regeneration he can get from 7 pieces Heavy.

That's what I usually run, unless I get lazy with the monster set. If you actually want to 5/1/1 your tank, I won't judge you, but I don't remember which piece you want to medium, if you have the option.

Raisin

Iskiab wrote: »

It absolutely matters. There was one answer that was almost right.

There are only 3 possible combinations for a good setup using 5 light.

1. Chest should be heavy, medium helm or legs (using a crafted set)
2. Helm heavy and medium shoulders (using 2 light sets)
3. Chest heavy, medium helm (using a heavy set)

The armour you get per slot goes:

Chest > Helm and Legs > shoulders and boots > hands > belt (belt should always be light no matter what build you run unless you’re 5m-2h)

I don't think you're right. Everything I've found now matches what the people above have pointed out: helm and shoulder give the same amount of resistance.

Sergykid

NupidStoob wrote: »

[...]
Tier 1: Chest
Tier 2: Head, Shoulder, Legs, Feet
Tier 3: Arms
Tier 4: Belt[...]

yep, this is it in a nutshell. Whatever type you build, if u aim for milking every resistance, build around like that. Tier from 1 to 4 goes in power with heavy to light. In the end i think you can get one and a half power unit of resistances (2230 armor) by adjusting from a light build to optimal.

Asardes

It doesn't really matter which piece is which weight, the idea is to have 5 pieces of one type, since some of the passives for that type of armor will work with that specific number, and 1 each from the other types just to get the undaunted passive, and optionally some advantage from the passives that are available per piece. If you use combos like 4/2/1 you lose out on those passives that need 5 pieces of a certain weight, so never do that.

Another objective can be to maximize your resistance. Chest has the highest resistance value, then legs, head, shoulders and feet have equal values, and the least resistance comes from hands and waist pieces respectively. So if you're using crafted sets, or dropped sets that drop in multiple weights you can maximize resistance by using:
- Heavy Chest, light sash and the rest of the pieces medium if you go for a medium armor build
- Heavy Chest, medium head, legs, feet or shoulders, the other 5 pieces light if you go for a light armor build
- Light waist, medium hands and the other 5 pieces heavy if you go for a heavy armor build.

If you combo 2 dropped sets, the monster pieces will be of different weights, though in some cases it's desirable to have everything of the same weight. Specifically for stamina DD builds 7 medium is actually better than 5/1/1 since you continue to gain weapon critical up to 7 pieces. 5/1/1 build has +6% HP (+4% from undaunted mettle, +2% from juggernaut), +4% Stamina and +4% Magicka but -3% weapon critical compared to 7 medium. Since damage scales more strongly with weapon and spell critical, especially in groups, than maximum stats, having higher critical while losing some resource stats is actually desirable.

MEBengalsFan2001

Beardimus wrote: »

@SydneyGrey @caperb I'm sorry by @Raisin is incorrect.

It doesn't matter at all. Check your stats, head and shoulders are the same resistances, there's no gain from either setup.

I thought the same for years and went to great lengths to get heavy head, medium shoulders for max gain. Untill I actually read the resistances both offer!!!

I'm guessing it either did once or some streamer said it and everyone started to follow. But there is no difference.

What matters is the enchantment you put on the head or shoulders. The head get 100% vs. 40% of the enchantment value. If your head is infused you want the head to have stat. For tanks it is better to get the head light with infused and have the shoulder with sturdy for the extra increase to physical/magika resistance. Other than for tanks it doesn't really matter.

Asardes

BalticBlues wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I forget what the preferred Tank 5/1/1 is. I want to say it's still a light belt, and then, medium gloves? I'm honestly not sure off hand.

As Tank, I experimented a lot, finally I am only playing 7 pieces HeavyArmor.
This is because a Tank really needs all the resistance, life and regeneration he can get from 7 pieces Heavy.

For PvE you will be almost always capped at spell resistance if you wear 5 pieces of heavy armor and have Major Resolve. Also you get most of your mitigation from blocking, not resistances, so going from 31K to 33K won't really do much for your actual mitigation. Also the discussion is more nuanced: most DoTs, that you can't block, are spell or elemental damage (flame, ice, shock) damage, so being capped there is more important for actual mitigation. In practice there isn't much difference between 7 heavy, 6 heavy/1 medium, 6 heavy/1 light and 5 heavy/1 medium/1 light for tanks. The only crafted set for tanks is Torug's Pact, so I only have 5/1/1 setups for that set, for example Torug+Alkosh or Torug+Ebon. I don't bother carrying extra monster sets, so those are heavy only.

code65536

Raisin wrote: »

The only difference is that heavy head + medium shoulders will give you slightly more resistances. So yes, ideally you wanna have it setup like that eventually, but it's not the biggest difference and it's okay to run it the other way around.

Chest > Head = Shoulder = Legs = Feet > Hands > Waist

Head, Shoulders, Legs, and Feet have the exact same resistance values.

That is to say, it makes absolutely no difference in terms of resistance if you go heavy head and medium shoulders or vice-versa.

If people do want to optimize, they could go heavy chest, but that requires one of your 5p sets be a crafted one, which is often not practical.

caperb

Interesting, didn't knew legs give the same resistance as shoulders or helm. Definitely makes outfitting new builds easier in the future! For PvP light armour builds nothing changes though.

Also interesting a lot of people tank in 7 heavy. Personally I prefer 5 heavy 2 light for when you are not in a position to afford balance a lot. Oh, and I like spamming support abilities as a tank.

Nestor

I don't wear 7 Heavy on my Tanks for the Resistances, I do so for the Other Passives.

JamuThatsWho

Heavy chest/Medium legs if you're using a crafted set.

Monster Heavy head/Medium shoulders if you're using Dungeon/Trial sets.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

JamuThatsWho wrote: »

Heavy chest/Medium legs if you're using a crafted set.

Monster Heavy head/Medium shoulders if you're using Dungeon/Trial sets.

This.

And that is why I run 5/1/1 with heavy helm.

Undaunted Mettle was made for tanks, so I use it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Beardimus wrote: »

@SydneyGrey @caperb I'm sorry by @Raisin is incorrect.

It doesn't matter at all. Check your stats, head and shoulders are the same resistances, there's no gain from either setup.

I thought the same for years and went to great lengths to get heavy head, medium shoulders for max gain. Untill I actually read the resistances both offer!!!

I'm guessing it either did once or some streamer said it and everyone started to follow. But there is no difference.

If I had a nickle for every time I said "check the stats on head and shoulder pieces" I would have a sock full of nickles. HAHA

Head and Shoulders, while having different enchant weight, have Identical armor values. Doesnt matter in the slightest as to which is which.

Please someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe in terms of armor it is: Chest>Legs=Head=shoulders=Shoes>Gloves>Belt.

Might be slightly off on this, but i do know head = Shoulders and I know chest is the most and belt is the least. So if trying to min/max a medium armor 5/1/1 build, you technically want a heavy chest and light belt, with the rest as medium. If you are running a 5 piece medium set on the body, then it doesnt matter in the slightest as to which one of your head or shoudlers is heavy or light.

For light armor setups, you want a heavy Chest and any of the next four can be medium. But truthfully, you are splitting hairs.

Edit: and of course I missed the part where @code65536 already gave the order. If he said it, it's correct.

CrashTest

Lots of good info, thanks all.

Tannus15

... just look?

Surely you've got 2 non resistant purple heavy head and shoulders and 2 medium of the same?
I mean, I don't mean to be that guy, but why even go to the forums, ask a question, wait for replies, read the walls of text and then trust them blindly when you can just take 30 seconds in game to just look at the actual numbers?