PvP is Broken

D3N7157

look at PTS forums ZOS is clearly happy with their templars, (snip)

(edited for baiting)

thorwyn

Mag Templar in particular are just over preforming in so many ways

Not all Mag Templars are over performing. Just the ones wearing Ice Heart are.

NaomiHutt

thorwyn wrote: »

Mag Templar in particular are just over preforming in so many ways

Not all Mag Templars are over performing. Just the ones wearing Ice Heart are.

Haha, this made me smile... I've yet to ever see a Templar use that set.

RIP Iceheart.

ketsparrowhawk

I've been spending a lot of time on my magPlar in BG's lately. This is a fairly new char and thus had low MMR at first. Now.. I've taken other low MMR chars through BG's, and of course those first few matches are always pretty easy. But on magPlar it was different.. those first few matches were an absolute slaughterfest. I was unstoppable.. 30-0 matches, etc. Those inexperienced players just didn't know how to deal with the magPlar's toolkit at all.

Once my MMR shot up and I started getting into the sweaties, my overall effectiveness dropped dramatically, and I was pretty much on par with everyone else. Kill counts were about average compared to everyone else.. healing above average obvs. Certainly not busted broken like it seemed in those early matches.

Something about the magPlar's toolkit seems to pose a particular challenge to newbies. Once people learn how to counter them, magPlar is simply "effective", but not OP at all imo.

Also, you could make a similar kind of post for any class. Imagine if someone made a post like this for Warden?? The list would be endless!! lol

MincVinyl

@NaomiHutt
I think a big issue that is present that brings these hard counters into the game is just build diversity. You come across any:

dk- expect a dot build, especially mag dk
warden- expect tank into short burst
sorc-expect timed hard hitting burst
templar-expect a stall into debuffs and dots
necro-expect a stall tank into extreme short burst with debuffs
nb- expect someone to light attack 5 times into a gimicky proc after a stun/ult

---

simple rock paper scissor counters like are pointed out in this thread exist because most players are forced down these paths to be relevant in the game.

dk- purge (sucks if you dont have access to them, l2p, idk what zos intends for dot counterplay)
warden- just watch for the shalks, if they pop perma generally you just need to walk away from them.
sorc- here is where people say sorc is op, the counterplay to sorc is just simply paying attention to what he casts
templar- again I hope you have a purge, if they are jabs direct damage setup just outplay their movement+major evasion
necro- again purge, especially with how pts is going they will most likely have maj/min defile 80% uptime+ normal burst
nb- after an ult/stun roll dodge or block, if ult>block>fear just repeat

---

The funniest part with the state of the game now is how any time zos talks about the game they push the "play how you want" well that really only happens under cp160. After that there is really only one general buildpath for your setup.

For instance my stamsorc, there is really only one setup that competes: bloodspawn/fury/(nma/singer/briar)/BrpDw
Where singer is used with 2h ult, briar is used for cp, and nma is for dbos setups. These different setups are maybe a slight 1-2% difference in effectiveness for different scenarios.

Garreth17

Don't forget that snipe skill is broken where it's basically cheating and it's been this way forever and obviously will never be fixed.

TequilaFire

TheFM wrote: »

NaomiHutt wrote: »

I don't care if people try and rip me apart for saying this, but whilst Templar's are the way they are currently in PvP the game just feels very broken. (Mag Templar in particular are just over preforming in so many ways).

Classes like the Dragon Knight just don't stand any chance of killing them if the person even has quarter of a brain, because all they have to do is purge and heal up, nullifying any dots that they just had put on them.

They have multiple stuns.
They heal whist they are attacking.
They have the most powerful burst heal in the game.
They have amazing burst damage potential.
They snare anyone that gets close to them.
They can purge 2 things at once whilst healing and damaging the enemy.
They have a long range access to major defile.
They have a long range execute.
They have access to off balance and knock back.
They have constant access to minor mending.
They have major maim and major protection.
They have reduced cost off all of their skills (including their ultimate)
They do extra damage to enemies that block.
They have built in minor protection whilst attacking.
They even have the shadow mundus stone as part of their passives.

Not to forget if they happen to play as a high elf, they get 5% reduction to all damage whilst they are channeling an ability (which let's face it they do it a lot)

This is not a nurf thread (but maybe a thread to open people's eyes to how broken things are)

Templars, stamcros, and wardens are all broken af atm. Nur if you say anything the over powered defense force will come out and insult you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah all classes are broken except yours. lmao
Poor sorcs.

Joy_Division

NaomiHutt wrote: »

I don't care if people try and rip me apart for saying this, but whilst Templar's are the way they are currently in PvP the game just feels very broken. (Mag Templar in particular are just over preforming in so many ways).

Classes like the Dragon Knight just don't stand any chance of killing them if the person even has quarter of a brain, because all they have to do is purge and heal up, nullifying any dots that they just had put on them.

They have multiple stuns.
They heal whist they are attacking.
They have the most powerful burst heal in the game.
They have amazing burst damage potential.
They snare anyone that gets close to them.
They can purge 2 things at once whilst healing and damaging the enemy.
They have a long range access to major defile.
They have a long range execute.
They have access to off balance and knock back.
They have constant access to minor mending.
They have major maim and major protection.
They have reduced cost off all of their skills (including their ultimate)
They do extra damage to enemies that block.
They have built in minor protection whilst attacking.
They even have the shadow mundus stone as part of their passives.

Not to forget if they happen to play as a high elf, they get 5% reduction to all damage whilst they are channeling an ability (which let's face it they do it a lot)

This is not a nurf thread (but maybe a thread to open people's eyes to how broken things are)

How is making a list what a class can do show that a class is OP?

Let's look at nightblades:

• They heal while they are attacking
• They restore resources just by having an ultimate slotted
• Their execute is maximum range
• They have easy access to minor vulnerability, which is a free extra 8% damage to everything they attack.
• Built in Gap closer in their kit that can be used bu both stam and mag players
• They have major evasion in their kit, which means they can combine it with heavy armor.
• They are the only class that has a skill to see stealthed targets
• They have the hardest hitting skill in the game and it's maximum range
• They get free critical strike chance just for slotting good skills
• Only class that can just disappear at will.
• They have an AoE unblockable and undodgeable CC
• Only class with a teleport
• They will have permanent minor maim against their opponents, reducing their damage by 15%
• All of their recovery rates are increased by 15% just by being a Nightblade
• They do not have to slot a specific skill to get major resolve and major ward, thus virtually giving them an additional bar space
• They can spam a skill the immobilizes and slows an opponent
• They restore health and resources just by light attacking
• They get untyped healing bonuses that stack with everything.
• Free 8% max magicka just because they are nightblades.

[Edit to remove bait]

Infixo

NaomiHutt wrote: »

Not to forget if they happen to play as a high elf, they get 5% reduction to all damage whilst they are channeling an ability (which let's face it they do it a lot)

And with a new DLC, you can also add to the list "free damage shield every 10 sec" - the new monster set will proc with jabs.

D3N7157

Joy_Division wrote: »

NaomiHutt wrote: »

I don't care if people try and rip me apart for saying this, but whilst Templar's are the way they are currently in PvP the game just feels very broken. (Mag Templar in particular are just over preforming in so many ways).

Classes like the Dragon Knight just don't stand any chance of killing them if the person even has quarter of a brain, because all they have to do is purge and heal up, nullifying any dots that they just had put on them.

They have multiple stuns.
They heal whist they are attacking.
They have the most powerful burst heal in the game.
They have amazing burst damage potential.
They snare anyone that gets close to them.
They can purge 2 things at once whilst healing and damaging the enemy.
They have a long range access to major defile.
They have a long range execute.
They have access to off balance and knock back.
They have constant access to minor mending.
They have major maim and major protection.
They have reduced cost off all of their skills (including their ultimate)
They do extra damage to enemies that block.
They have built in minor protection whilst attacking.
They even have the shadow mundus stone as part of their passives.

Not to forget if they happen to play as a high elf, they get 5% reduction to all damage whilst they are channeling an ability (which let's face it they do it a lot)

This is not a nurf thread (but maybe a thread to open people's eyes to how broken things are)

How is making a list what a class can do show that a class is OP?

Let's look at nightblades:

• They heal while they are attacking
• They restore resources just by having an ultimate slotted
• Their execute is maximum range
• They have easy access to minor vulnerability, which is a free extra 8% damage to everything they attack.
• Built in Gap closer in their kit that can be used bu both stam and mag players
• They have major evasion in their kit, which means they can combine it with heavy armor.
• They are the only class that has a skill to see stealthed targets
• They have the hardest hitting skill in the game and it's maximum range
• They get free critical strike chance just for slotting good skills
• Only class that can just disappear at will.
• They have an AoE unblockable and undodgeable CC
• Only class with a teleport
• They will have permanent minor maim against their opponents, reducing their damage by 15%
• All of their recovery rates are increased by 15% just by being a Nightblade
• They do not have to slot a specific skill to get major resolve and major ward, thus virtually giving them an additional bar space
• They can spam a skill the immobilizes and slows an opponent
• They restore health and resources just by light attacking
• They get untyped healing bonuses that stack with everything.
• Free 8% max magicka just because they are nightblades.

wtf i had no idea nb was so strong can we nerf that pls

SORjosh

ITT templar mains will try to tear you to pieces. God Speed and prayers sent.

TheFM

Heimpai wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

NaomiHutt wrote: »

I don't care if people try and rip me apart for saying this, but whilst Templar's are the way they are currently in PvP the game just feels very broken. (Mag Templar in particular are just over preforming in so many ways).

Classes like the Dragon Knight just don't stand any chance of killing them if the person even has quarter of a brain, because all they have to do is purge and heal up, nullifying any dots that they just had put on them.

They have multiple stuns.
They heal whist they are attacking.
They have the most powerful burst heal in the game.
They have amazing burst damage potential.
They snare anyone that gets close to them.
They can purge 2 things at once whilst healing and damaging the enemy.
They have a long range access to major defile.
They have a long range execute.
They have access to off balance and knock back.
They have constant access to minor mending.
They have major maim and major protection.
They have reduced cost off all of their skills (including their ultimate)
They do extra damage to enemies that block.
They have built in minor protection whilst attacking.
They even have the shadow mundus stone as part of their passives.

Not to forget if they happen to play as a high elf, they get 5% reduction to all damage whilst they are channeling an ability (which let's face it they do it a lot)

This is not a nurf thread (but maybe a thread to open people's eyes to how broken things are)

Templars, stamcros, and wardens are all broken af atm. Nur if you say anything the over powered defense force will come out and insult you.

Magsorc is as well

Thats hilarious, nerfed pets, nerfed shields, nerfed all of our ultis, slowest heavy hitting ability in the game, least defensive passives in the game, slowest and weakest execute in the game, half our burst is purgeable, and our biggest heals can be killed, and the one that is interrupted doesnt even get buffed by magicka or spell damage. Mag sorc isnt even anywhere near the same level as those classes.

TheFM

Heimpai wrote: »

Cirantille wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

NaomiHutt wrote: »

I don't care if people try and rip me apart for saying this, but whilst Templar's are the way they are currently in PvP the game just feels very broken. (Mag Templar in particular are just over preforming in so many ways).

Classes like the Dragon Knight just don't stand any chance of killing them if the person even has quarter of a brain, because all they have to do is purge and heal up, nullifying any dots that they just had put on them.

They have multiple stuns.
They heal whist they are attacking.
They have the most powerful burst heal in the game.
They have amazing burst damage potential.
They snare anyone that gets close to them.
They can purge 2 things at once whilst healing and damaging the enemy.
They have a long range access to major defile.
They have a long range execute.
They have access to off balance and knock back.
They have constant access to minor mending.
They have major maim and major protection.
They have reduced cost off all of their skills (including their ultimate)
They do extra damage to enemies that block.
They have built in minor protection whilst attacking.
They even have the shadow mundus stone as part of their passives.

Not to forget if they happen to play as a high elf, they get 5% reduction to all damage whilst they are channeling an ability (which let's face it they do it a lot)

This is not a nurf thread (but maybe a thread to open people's eyes to how broken things are)

Templars, stamcros, and wardens are all broken af atm. Nur if you say anything the over powered defense force will come out and insult you.

Magsorc is as well

If after 6 years of nerfing you still can not beat mag sorcs, problem is you

Lmao I have no issues with any class listed, just stating it's on par with them..unless you don't know how to play one?

We do just as much damage but have far less survivability, our defensive passives are a joke atm.

TheFM

Drdeath20 wrote: »

You dont think that dk is strong? Both specs are hard counters to a magplar. If your struggling vs them have you considered that there may be personal accountability at play?

It took me along time but learning when to engage and disengage in a fight helps. When and what attacks to use in certain scenarios and routes to run. When to block, dodgeroll, break LoS, potion up, and/or just eat the damage. Swapping out skills and sets on the fly depending on my team, my opponents and the battleground map itself.

Dragon knights are a stronger class all around compared to a magplar soo i find it odd that, thats where the complaint stems from.

Theres really no way to break down your anecdotal forum posts other than that. Templars main defense is to heal soo id imagine thats how they are planing to defend against ya. Templars burst is purgeable. Have you considered slotting purge?

In what way are dks a hard counter? They rely on dots, templars can purge that easy peasy.

TheFM

Karmanorway wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

NaomiHutt wrote: »

I don't care if people try and rip me apart for saying this, but whilst Templar's are the way they are currently in PvP the game just feels very broken. (Mag Templar in particular are just over preforming in so many ways).

Classes like the Dragon Knight just don't stand any chance of killing them if the person even has quarter of a brain, because all they have to do is purge and heal up, nullifying any dots that they just had put on them.

They have multiple stuns.
They heal whist they are attacking.
They have the most powerful burst heal in the game.
They have amazing burst damage potential.
They snare anyone that gets close to them.
They can purge 2 things at once whilst healing and damaging the enemy.
They have a long range access to major defile.
They have a long range execute.
They have access to off balance and knock back.
They have constant access to minor mending.
They have major maim and major protection.
They have reduced cost off all of their skills (including their ultimate)
They do extra damage to enemies that block.
They have built in minor protection whilst attacking.
They even have the shadow mundus stone as part of their passives.

Not to forget if they happen to play as a high elf, they get 5% reduction to all damage whilst they are channeling an ability (which let's face it they do it a lot)

This is not a nurf thread (but maybe a thread to open people's eyes to how broken things are)

Templars, stamcros, and wardens are all broken af atm. Nur if you say anything the over powered defense force will come out and insult you.

^I support this statement with all my heart. Some ppl will always crutch on unfair advantages, and never evolve into becoming better ☺️ atleast, If u get killed by one of them and tbagged, u get a good laugh of how stupid they look 😆

When i get hate tells from people using those classes I usually just reply with " ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha, youre playing "x", thats hilarious. "

Last night I got bagged cuz 8 guys couldnt take me out and then i double door glitched, and only cuz of that i died. Like, wtaf.

Neoauspex

@NaomiHutt Kristofer ESO has Stam DK right right there with Magplar/Magsorc. Found this interesting:

https://youtu.be/6vGf9ce9Hus

technohic

Neoauspex wrote: »

@NaomiHutt Kristofer ESO has Stam DK right right there with Magplar/Magsorc. Found this interesting:

https://youtu.be/6vGf9ce9Hus

That a fair breakdown.

Iconius

Be careful sayong anything about Templar (Everyone's favorite carry class). You could find yourself getting worked by the comments.

Here is a favorite: " Don't nerf Templar, increase damage instead! " (A rediculous suggestion since the overpowered Templar would also get the increased damage) It's mind numbing tbh.

Players have been screaming at the top of their lungs in the forums and frankly everywhere else (For months) that templar is so rediculously OP in comparison to other classes. Speaking up has resulted in not one change or adjustment.

The only thing that has changed I the number of Templars. It has steadily increased.

I and all the other Max players I run with have had the exact same mind numbing experience that repeats over and over.

Any Templar, even one not even at cp160 can spam square, comeback from the brink of death to full health, and leave you with an infinite number of death recaps that simply read, "You have been killed by 200 Jabs and 100 burning light price".

Templars of today are the reincarnation of the Viper Sting Proc set days of old.

It took FOREVER to get those spam square to win sets dealt with. A large number of players were lost due to a lack of response. Now I am seeing that same culture of frustration brewing and stewing among players regarding the lack of action with what is essentially one class that has a tool kit which is FAR overperforming.

PS: It is not my intention to trigger or insight or bait anyone. I am in no way seeking to cause harm to or violate anyone's feeling or sensitivities. Please don't report me or suspend me for trying to share my experience in as politically and soft handed way as possible. (Seriously)

LuxLunae

Eric_Prince wrote: »

Wow! I guess I need to try Templar...

Try it, watch you cry... people want to talk about how great templars are.. but the truth is zos nerfed DoTs...and the likes..

Jabs becomes uttery worthless in cyro...Every time it starts lagging jabs don't do shet...So I instantly log out and go play an offline game...

Mancombe_Nosehair

Be careful what you wish for; one day the NERF hammer will be coming for you.

Tandor

NaomiHutt wrote: »

They just need to get rid of classes, problem solved.

Let people pick what skills they want and don't want.

Plus without classes it would make Zos's job so much easier to balance.

But hey that's just the way I would do it.

Everyone in competitive play would have the same FOTM template, and ZOS would keep changing the skills that make that up in order to sell respec tokens in the Crown Store.

MartiniDaniels

I played 100+ hours in U24 both on stamDK and stamplar and I fully agree with OP. In majority of activities stamplar MUCH better. StamDK is good only to leap on squishes and to fight with magsorc. Yeah, versus magsorc stamDK is really good. That's why many ratings put stamDK high. But versus stamplar stamDK is simply outclassed. Many disagree, but I didn't heard anything other "20k leap" and "minor brutality". Stamplar has in-built 6% to WD without doing anything to proc it.
As for the leap there are no miracles, leap tooltip is ~10-12% higher then onslaught. Ok after nerf it will be closer to 15-18%. Anyway leap doesn't pierce armor like 2H ulti. I regularly land 12-15k onslaughts against tanky PVP-ers, but on build with same stats on stamDK I don't remember 15k leap ever. 10k is maximum (against PVP-er of course)
BUT. It doesn't mean that templar should be nerfed. DK should be buffed in general and his anti-sorc abilities should be toned down a bit.

TequilaFire

Iconius wrote: »

Be careful sayong anything about Templar (Everyone's favorite carry class). You could find yourself getting worked by the comments.

Here is a favorite: " Don't nerf Templar, increase damage instead! " (A rediculous suggestion since the overpowered Templar would also get the increased damage) It's mind numbing tbh.

Players have been screaming at the top of their lungs in the forums and frankly everywhere else (For months) that templar is so rediculously OP in comparison to other classes. Speaking up has resulted in not one change or adjustment.

The only thing that has changed I the number of Templars. It has steadily increased.

I and all the other Max players I run with have had the exact same mind numbing experience that repeats over and over.

Any Templar, even one not even at cp160 can spam square, comeback from the brink of death to full health, and leave you with an infinite number of death recaps that simply read, "You have been killed by 200 Jabs and 100 burning light price".

Templars of today are the reincarnation of the Viper Sting Proc set days of old.

It took FOREVER to get those spam square to win sets dealt with. A large number of players were lost due to a lack of response. Now I am seeing that same culture of frustration brewing and stewing among players regarding the lack of action with what is essentially one class that has a tool kit which is FAR overperforming.

PS: It is not my intention to trigger or insight or bait anyone. I am in no way seeking to cause harm to or violate anyone's feeling or sensitivities. Please don't report me or suspend me for trying to share my experience in as politically and soft handed way as possible. (Seriously)

xXMeowMeowXx

Luede wrote: »

A DK complains about overpowered classes. This thread will be very interesting

After I saw DK I stopped reading

Just another bundle of tears and cliche insults like crutch, lol

All from bad PvPers that need a big spoonful of L 2 P

maybe just find another game with no challenges. Not that eso is a challenge anymore with how much ZoS watered down for the whiners.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

Greetings,

Some posts have been removed from this thread due to baiting/insults. Please refer to our community rules to understand what is expected from members of our community.

wsmith97ub17_ESO

Lol, these templar mains typing for their very lives because they know they have been on easy mode for years now.

I use my temp when i want no real hassle and just want cruise control.

Everyone who has played a temp knows how easy it is to use it well. They have tools for literally all gaming conditions and dominate most of them with the exception of mobility.

Which templars just vamp for mist form, fixed.

TequilaFire

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lol, these templar mains typing for their very lives because they know they have been on easy mode for years now.

I use my temp when i want no real hassle and just want cruise control.

Everyone who has played a temp knows how easy it is to use it well. They have tools for literally all gaming conditions and dominate most of them with the exception of mobility.

Which templars just vamp for mist form, fixed.

Funny that is what I use my nightblade, for.

wsmith97ub17_ESO

TequilaFire wrote: »

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lol, these templar mains typing for their very lives because they know they have been on easy mode for years now.

I use my temp when i want no real hassle and just want cruise control.

Everyone who has played a temp knows how easy it is to use it well. They have tools for literally all gaming conditions and dominate most of them with the exception of mobility.

Which templars just vamp for mist form, fixed.

Funny that is what I use my nightblade, for.

Well i wish my nb still had a purge like the early days. I guess you can just stay cloaked and avoid conflict these days lol

Spearpoint

Still half of them only JABJABJABJABJAB!

JimmyJuJu

A nerf magplars thread. I never thought I'd see the day.

I don't think it's that magplars are OP, it's that every other class has been nerfed so hard, so many times that magplars are - by comparison - OP. I think that's the real problem here.