Disparity of Base and DLC in Dungeon Finder

Ryvyr

Please either separate into two categories or scale them down in line to be less sadistic?

A few hours spare to play with bad luck in groups, and the raised blood pressure as result, is something easily addressed within context (setting aside the business angle which underlies all changes, casual to hardcore retention profit ratios, limits of abysmal RNG loot crate tolerance, etc).

Gratitude and Regards,
Ryv

Raisin

In the top right corner of the Dungeon Finder there's a small drop-down menu. Clicking on this let's you choose "Specific Dungeon", letting you create your own selection of which dungeons you wish to queue for! Just understand that by doing this you are foregoing the risk associated with a true random dungeon,so you won't get the random dungeon bonus.

That said, a third difficulty level for dungeons is only becoming more and more of a hot topic. I would absolutely love for them to add a sadistic-level difficulty to dungeons. Especially for the base game dungeons, it would really entice people to start running and enjoying them again. For DLC dungeons, I can only imagine how epic another difficulty tier would make them feel... And if added, I think a lot of people would also be okay with nerfing vet DLC for more casual players. As it stands right now, vet DLC dungeons are one of the few things in the game aimed at less casual players, so nerfing them would take away what little content feels like it's made for us. The worst thing ZOS has ever done for dungeons is to try and make vDLC dungeons somehow please both midtier and endgame tier players -- in the end, neither will be happy with the middle ground difficulty.
If you're talking about nDLC dungeons then well... They are intended for casual play so technically I'd argue nerf away. But I also think that this just perpetuates rhe issue where players don't learn anything from dungeons and thus stay at a complete beginner level despite running a lot of things. Which hasn't been healthy for the playerbase at all.

FierceSam

Raisin wrote: »

In the top right corner of the Dungeon Finder there's a small drop-down menu. Clicking on this let's you choose "Specific Dungeon", letting you create your own selection of which dungeons you wish to queue for! Just understand that by doing this you are foregoing the risk associated with a true random dungeon,so you won't get the random dungeon bonus.

That said, a third difficulty level for dungeons is only becoming more and more of a hot topic. I would absolutely love for them to add a sadistic-level difficulty to dungeons. Especially for the base game dungeons, it would really entice people to start running and enjoying them again. For DLC dungeons, I can only imagine how epic another difficulty tier would make them feel... And if added, I think a lot of people would also be okay with nerfing vet DLC for more casual players. As it stands right now, vet DLC dungeons are one of the few things in the game aimed at less casual players, so nerfing them would take away what little content feels like it's made for us. The worst thing ZOS has ever done for dungeons is to try and make vDLC dungeons somehow please both midtier and endgame tier players -- in the end, neither will be happy with the middle ground difficulty.
If you're talking about nDLC dungeons then well... They are intended for casual play so technically I'd argue nerf away. But I also think that this just perpetuates rhe issue where players don't learn anything from dungeons and thus stay at a complete beginner level despite running a lot of things. Which hasn't been healthy for the playerbase at all.

Amazingly, I agree with both of you.

DLC dungeons are hard and clearly a tier of difficulty above normal dungeons. They are super fun and a challenge, but you need to be ready for them (both in terms of your game ability and your mood) because they take more time and effort than most non-DLC dungeons. I don’t believe OP is talking about changing that (although if they can sort out the lazer Boss in vFV to actually work properly that would be lovely thank you very much).

It is not intelligent for ZOS to dump all their ESO+ subscribers into a pool of cannon fodder for DLC dungeons. I get that they must feel this is the only way they can possibly fill out empty spaces in player groups that want to do this content, but it doesn’t help anyone to dump players who can’t do the content into it (see about 1 billion ‘why should I carry these jerks’ threads in the forum). And as the number of DLC dungeons increases so does the chance of the ESO+ subscriber being repeatedly dumped into this content often to everyone’s detriment.

It should be the player’s choice whether their random dungeon includes DLC or not. By all means increase the random reward for doing DLC - because let’s face it a DLC dungeon like RoM takes longer and requires greater expertise than Fungal Grotto, whether it’s normal or vet. This way players who know they can’t do DLC dungeons but want to subscribe can do so, while players who actually want to do the content will be joined by players happy to do it. That looks to me like a win win all round for just a little effort* on ZOS’s part.




*that is forum talk for ‘I have no idea how much time and effort is required, but it seems simple to a non-programming idiot like me’

essi2

nDLC should not be treated like actual normal dungeons, but I doubt ZOS will do anything anytime soon.

bmnoble

Raisin wrote: »

In the top right corner of the Dungeon Finder there's a small drop-down menu. Clicking on this let's you choose "Specific Dungeon", letting you create your own selection of which dungeons you wish to queue for! Just understand that by doing this you are foregoing the risk associated with a true random dungeon,so you won't get the random dungeon bonus.

That said, a third difficulty level for dungeons is only becoming more and more of a hot topic. I would absolutely love for them to add a sadistic-level difficulty to dungeons. Especially for the base game dungeons, it would really entice people to start running and enjoying them again. For DLC dungeons, I can only imagine how epic another difficulty tier would make them feel... And if added, I think a lot of people would also be okay with nerfing vet DLC for more casual players. As it stands right now, vet DLC dungeons are one of the few things in the game aimed at less casual players, so nerfing them would take away what little content feels like it's made for us. The worst thing ZOS has ever done for dungeons is to try and make vDLC dungeons somehow please both midtier and endgame tier players -- in the end, neither will be happy with the middle ground difficulty.
If you're talking about nDLC dungeons then well... They are intended for casual play so technically I'd argue nerf away. But I also think that this just perpetuates rhe issue where players don't learn anything from dungeons and thus stay at a complete beginner level despite running a lot of things. Which hasn't been healthy for the playerbase at all.

Hasn't most of the talk been about story dungeons that would be even lower level in difficulty than normal ones, haven't spotted any about raising the difficulty further, plenty about raising the difficulty of overland content though.


Personally I would like an option to exclude a certain number of dungeons from the random group finder.

Not talking about a blanket exclusion of all DLC dungeons either, talking about an option for example:

-Each player can exclude lets say 6 dungeons from the random group finder of their choice, they can exclude any 6 dungeons they hate whether they are DLC dungeons they just plain hate to run or base game ones they find too easy and don't want to get.

That way you get the best of both worlds, players that want to run harder dungeons can exclude some of the easiest dungeons from the random group finder and increase their chances of getting a DLC or at least one of the harder base game dungeons.

While players that either don't feel ready to do DLC dungeons yet or just don't want to run them can avoid getting those dungeons when they queue for the random group.



Maybe make it a subscriber only feature as it is now some players avoid subscribing/buying the dungeon DLC so they don't get them when they queue for random dungeons.

With a feature to be able to exclude certain dungeons they might get some more subscribers back again.

Raisin

bmnoble wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

In the top right corner of the Dungeon Finder there's a small drop-down menu. Clicking on this let's you choose "Specific Dungeon", letting you create your own selection of which dungeons you wish to queue for! Just understand that by doing this you are foregoing the risk associated with a true random dungeon,so you won't get the random dungeon bonus.

That said, a third difficulty level for dungeons is only becoming more and more of a hot topic. I would absolutely love for them to add a sadistic-level difficulty to dungeons. Especially for the base game dungeons, it would really entice people to start running and enjoying them again. For DLC dungeons, I can only imagine how epic another difficulty tier would make them feel... And if added, I think a lot of people would also be okay with nerfing vet DLC for more casual players. As it stands right now, vet DLC dungeons are one of the few things in the game aimed at less casual players, so nerfing them would take away what little content feels like it's made for us. The worst thing ZOS has ever done for dungeons is to try and make vDLC dungeons somehow please both midtier and endgame tier players -- in the end, neither will be happy with the middle ground difficulty.
If you're talking about nDLC dungeons then well... They are intended for casual play so technically I'd argue nerf away. But I also think that this just perpetuates rhe issue where players don't learn anything from dungeons and thus stay at a complete beginner level despite running a lot of things. Which hasn't been healthy for the playerbase at all.

Hasn't most of the talk been about story dungeons that would be even lower level in difficulty than normal ones, haven't spotted any about raising the difficulty further, plenty about raising the difficulty of overland content though.


Personally I would like an option to exclude a certain number of dungeons from the random group finder.

Not talking about a blanket exclusion of all DLC dungeons either, talking about an option for example:

-Each player can exclude lets say 6 dungeons from the random group finder of their choice, they can exclude any 6 dungeons they hate whether they are DLC dungeons they just plain hate to run or base game ones they find too easy and don't want to get.

That way you get the best of both worlds, players that want to run harder dungeons can exclude some of the easiest dungeons from the random group finder and increase their chances of getting a DLC or at least one of the harder base game dungeons.

While players that either don't feel ready to do DLC dungeons yet or just don't want to run them can avoid getting those dungeons when they queue for the random group.



Maybe make it a subscriber only feature as it is now some players avoid subscribing/buying the dungeon DLC so they don't get them when they queue for random dungeons.

With a feature to be able to exclude certain dungeons they might get some more subscribers back again.

What you call which difficulty level really makes no difference. It's true that the most recent discussions about the topic have been about adding a Story Mode, but that in itself inherently comes with the implication of adjusting all difficulties. As I said at the end, the trickiest part is that vetDLC tries to appeal to far too broad of a range -- which is why many people still want them nerfed, despite how laughably easy they are for others. One side will always find them too difficult, while the other already finds most of them too easy outside of HMs and trifecta achievements. With a story mode, ZOS would need to re-evaluate which category of dungeons is aimed at what players, as many people right now try to bend normal mode into story mode. But the fact that this makes normal dungeons so easy, in turn affects midtier players who now have to choose between the far too easy normal dungeons, and the far too difficult veteran dungeons.
That said, normal DLC dungeons in most cases are not inherently difficult, they just rely on people understanding basic game mechanics and ZOS has screwed the pooch on teaching those mechanics. So that also will always play into it, as the perceived difficulty will be affected by a lack of understanding of how the game works. But all of this is very 'going back to the source' in regards to the OG thread topic haha.

The point is, a random dungeon is just a random dungeon. If you want to exclude things, you can, you just don't get the special nice bonus reward for forgoing that choice. It's about weighing out your options. The bonus rewards are NOT a gift or free daily thing you get -- in previous threads I've suggested that what people are looking for in this regard would actually be to change the 'random dungeon' bonus to a 'first dungeon of the day' bonus. What we have right now is given to you for an exchange of service. Instead of thinking you need to get it, ask yourself if the cost is worth it to you. It's not a must. It's 'fulfil this criteria, get a shiny'.
I also think that in the current climate, making this a subscriber-only benefit would not go over well.

FierceSam

Raisin wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

In the top right corner of the Dungeon Finder there's a small drop-down menu. Clicking on this let's you choose "Specific Dungeon", letting you create your own selection of which dungeons you wish to queue for! Just understand that by doing this you are foregoing the risk associated with a true random dungeon,so you won't get the random dungeon bonus.

That said, a third difficulty level for dungeons is only becoming more and more of a hot topic. I would absolutely love for them to add a sadistic-level difficulty to dungeons. Especially for the base game dungeons, it would really entice people to start running and enjoying them again. For DLC dungeons, I can only imagine how epic another difficulty tier would make them feel... And if added, I think a lot of people would also be okay with nerfing vet DLC for more casual players. As it stands right now, vet DLC dungeons are one of the few things in the game aimed at less casual players, so nerfing them would take away what little content feels like it's made for us. The worst thing ZOS has ever done for dungeons is to try and make vDLC dungeons somehow please both midtier and endgame tier players -- in the end, neither will be happy with the middle ground difficulty.
If you're talking about nDLC dungeons then well... They are intended for casual play so technically I'd argue nerf away. But I also think that this just perpetuates rhe issue where players don't learn anything from dungeons and thus stay at a complete beginner level despite running a lot of things. Which hasn't been healthy for the playerbase at all.

Hasn't most of the talk been about story dungeons that would be even lower level in difficulty than normal ones, haven't spotted any about raising the difficulty further, plenty about raising the difficulty of overland content though.


Personally I would like an option to exclude a certain number of dungeons from the random group finder.

Not talking about a blanket exclusion of all DLC dungeons either, talking about an option for example:

-Each player can exclude lets say 6 dungeons from the random group finder of their choice, they can exclude any 6 dungeons they hate whether they are DLC dungeons they just plain hate to run or base game ones they find too easy and don't want to get.

That way you get the best of both worlds, players that want to run harder dungeons can exclude some of the easiest dungeons from the random group finder and increase their chances of getting a DLC or at least one of the harder base game dungeons.

While players that either don't feel ready to do DLC dungeons yet or just don't want to run them can avoid getting those dungeons when they queue for the random group.



Maybe make it a subscriber only feature as it is now some players avoid subscribing/buying the dungeon DLC so they don't get them when they queue for random dungeons.

With a feature to be able to exclude certain dungeons they might get some more subscribers back again.

The point is, a random dungeon is just a random dungeon. If you want to exclude things, you can, you just don't get the special nice bonus reward for forgoing that choice. It's about weighing out your options. The bonus rewards are NOT a gift or free daily thing you get -- in previous threads I've suggested that what people are looking for in this regard would actually be to change the 'random dungeon' bonus to a 'first dungeon of the day' bonus. What we have right now is given to you for an exchange of service. Instead of thinking you need to get it, ask yourself if the cost is worth it to you. It's not a must. It's 'fulfil this criteria, get a shiny'.
I also think that in the current climate, making this a subscriber-only benefit would not go over well.

Except that it’s not the same random for everyone.

ESO+ subscribers’ random includes all normal and DLC dungeons with no option to opt out of the DLC

Non-subscribers’ random includes all normal and those DLC dungeons they have opted in to (ie bought)

This presents subscribers with a massive penalty, as not only are DLC dungeons automatically added to their random pool, but there is a smaller number of players being dumped into the DLC pool so they are more likely to be given DLC than non-DLC.

To suggest that both should receive the same reward simply because the word ‘random’ is the same is non-sensical.

OP is arguing that ESO+ subscribers (and those who have purchased DLC dungeons) should be able to select the same ‘random’ option that basegame players have (ie just the non-DLC dungeons). And I agree with that.

Ryvyr

Having caught up and taken all in sum, that is what I would prefer for daily random reward applying as is now for Base dungeons only, and perhaps a higher reward for DLC (though not double dipping daily rewards, too time consuming and rather on the nose I think).

If so, I think data would quickly reveal a split in people seeking those more challenging DLC and those seeking more casual Base - allowing for more accurate tweaking in posterity.

The one size fits all consistently suggests as more disruptive than positive.

I doubt it an unpopular desire to simply play with engaging story and mechanics leveling reliably, spend much time in RP, not stress out in PvE (obviously differentiating into casual and hardcore merits and loot, etc), and accept PvP for its own world and culture. When someone has a few spare hours on a weeknight or even less in a workweek, and they land into bad luck with dungeon finder with DLC baseline less forgiving and more prone to people rage quitting, then the end result tends to be no bonus after everyone leaves or timer runs out and feeling worse off.

Base dungeons are reliable, essentially no stress, cathartic even, being separate from DLC (both Veteran or not on a sliding scale). Yet, the risk of dungeon finder is increasingly landing a DLC and a further die cast for 1) competence and 2) not having one or more people shaming other people for not having 30K dps nor knowing every boss blindfolded, etc., being called out for it, then denial until soon after snarky comment and leaving group~

The root does return, I think, to the seeming attempt to appease casual and hardcore people whilst reducing time and effort in more encompassing solutions - again setting aside the business angle which might interfere with priorities in gameplay.

Hope that does not appear as cynical as is to lesser degree, but more an observation and assessment of a larger problem.

BejaProphet

1.) You can customize your random dungeon roll exactly how you want. That is in the game right now. Just choose specific dungeon and click on every dungeon you want to be a possibility.

2.). There is a reason that random reward needs to include EVERY dungeon from a design/game health perspective.

Hang on, we are going for a paradigm shift here...

Random dungeon bonus rewards are not to help the player doing random dungeons. They are for the player doing a specific dungeons.

Say what? Yep. Consider this. You are a player who very much wants to get the monster helm from scale caller peak. But you can’t get a group. So you go to the dungeon finder, only nobody wants to do that one dungeon. And the queue takes forever or never comes.

How do game designers help this?

They give a special prize to the players who are willing to be the solution. I come to the dungeon, not at all saying, “I want to do SCP.” But I see the reward for doing the random roll and so I say, “Sure, stick me wherever I am needed for a little extra bling.”

Now suddenly developers have created a group of players willing to join you in whatever Dungeon you are specifically needing to get done.

Random rewards are there to help the player trying to do a specific dungeon.

The moment we get to opt out of whatever dungeon we don’t like and still get the rewards, that defeats the purpose of the random rewards. Because now everybody is doing ransoms but they get to say, “but not the specific dungeon that one player needs help with.”

RusevCrush

Maybe they add a streamlined way to "select all nondlcs" under the specific menu. Not sure this should be part of the random option though. Cut the rewards down perhaps.
Endgamers with new vet players in dlcs is a lose lose. Most endgamers are just blasting through to get the crystals. There's not much left in dungeons for this community. The titles are discarded for more respected trial achievements.Trifectas could be cool but sadly there's no reward.

zvavi

RusevCrush wrote: »

Maybe they add a streamlined way to "select all nondlcs"

"Select all dlc" plz

RusevCrush

Dlc for me as well. Gotten to the point where non are so boring they're not even worth the crystals.

Mettaricana

Ditch vet of the dlc dungeons and just adjust to find a middleground of normal and vet difficulty. Theres just not enough players who care that much to do vet and guilds are never doing dungeons just trials.

Taleof2Cities

Instead of all these fancy solutions listed above, what would happen if players just took 5 minutes to read up on the mechanics of a DLC dungeon ... so that they can complete it when the random queue pops?

phileunderx2

During the eso plus free period I did a random on my alt account. Got normal MHK. I was healing and I bailed after the first trash pull as it was obvious that our "tank" was fake.
Base game dungeons are quite easy to complete no matter the roles, dlc's not so much.
upside I did get a cool hat for just walking in.

zvavi

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Instead of all these fancy solutions listed above, what would happen if players just took 5 minutes to read up on the mechanics of a DLC dungeon ... so that they can complete it when the random queue pops?

Players many times lack the mechanical skill and sometimes the dps to do it. I still think that one possible dps requirement for dlc dungeons could be vMA clear.
It checks dps. It checks mechanical skill. And it checks if u can actually attack while doing the mechanics.

Edit: also many times guides are misleading and not 100% correct.

Taleof2Cities

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Instead of all these fancy solutions listed above, what would happen if players just took 5 minutes to read up on the mechanics of a DLC dungeon ... so that they can complete it when the random queue pops?

Players many times lack the mechanical skill and sometimes the dps to do it. I still think that one possible dps requirement for dlc dungeons could be vMA clear.
It checks dps. It checks mechanical skill. And it checks if u can actually attack while doing the mechanics.

There is no vMA clear required for any DLC dungeon.

If a player doesn’t have the mechanical skill or DPS, they will be aware to select normal random ... or risk being booted from the group if they queue for vet. Though in most cases it’s neither of those ... it’s the player not knowing dungeon mechanics.

Dusk_Coven

Just one of the reasons why people want SOLO STORY DUNGEONS especially if they insist in packing their story into DLC dungeons with too many mechanics.

zvavi

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Instead of all these fancy solutions listed above, what would happen if players just took 5 minutes to read up on the mechanics of a DLC dungeon ... so that they can complete it when the random queue pops?

Players many times lack the mechanical skill and sometimes the dps to do it. I still think that one possible dps requirement for dlc dungeons could be vMA clear.
It checks dps. It checks mechanical skill. And it checks if u can actually attack while doing the mechanics.

There is no vMA clear required for any DLC dungeon.

If a player doesn’t have the mechanical skill or DPS, they will be aware to select normal random ... or risk being booted from the group if they queue for vet. Though in most cases it’s neither of those ... it’s the player not knowing dungeon mechanics.

...if you think that dds that go into vet dlc always have the mechanical skill and dps to clear it, my friend, you are dead wrong. Dead. Wrong. You are correct though, it is mostly lack of mechanics knowledge.

Taleof2Cities

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Instead of all these fancy solutions listed above, what would happen if players just took 5 minutes to read up on the mechanics of a DLC dungeon ... so that they can complete it when the random queue pops?

Players many times lack the mechanical skill and sometimes the dps to do it. I still think that one possible dps requirement for dlc dungeons could be vMA clear.
It checks dps. It checks mechanical skill. And it checks if u can actually attack while doing the mechanics.

There is no vMA clear required for any DLC dungeon.

If a player doesn’t have the mechanical skill or DPS, they will be aware to select normal random ... or risk being booted from the group if they queue for vet. Though in most cases it’s neither of those ... it’s the player not knowing dungeon mechanics.

...if you think that dds that go into vet dlc always have the mechanical skill and dps to clear it, my friend, you are dead wrong.

I agree, but that’s not the dungeon finder’s fault ... that’s on the player.

A player in that category is likely to have problems with regular vet dungeons too. They should queue for normal if that’s the case.

Darkstorne

Yep, hard to disagree with anyone in this thread. Just goes to show dungeons are hugely popular for a wide variety of reasons, and at the moment the current design has flaws for everyone.

I'm in the camp that loves the challenge of healing through a DLC dungeon and figuring out the more advanced mechanics. I find base game dungeons far too boring in comparison. But I also read through a quick synopsis of each boss in a dungeon before I queue for it for the first time (for a pledge for example), and I don't really do random queues. It means I know what to expect going in. Seeing a DD's blood boil because he can't just spin-to-win against every boss and sprint through trash does get tiring though...

I would like to see ZOS trial both a non-DLC random queue, and a solo story mode. Solo story mode wouldn't use the dungeon finder - you'd have to travel to the dungeon and enter manually, for the immersion, like any regular overland delve. No set drops in solo mode. Non-DLC queue would need to be on a trial basis, to make sure it doesn't affect the DLC queue population too much. But that should be solvable anyway by creating bigger rewards for DLC queues to incentivize them.

Varana

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Instead of all these fancy solutions listed above, what would happen if players just took 5 minutes to read up on the mechanics of a DLC dungeon ... so that they can complete it when the random queue pops?

Players many times lack the mechanical skill and sometimes the dps to do it. I still think that one possible dps requirement for dlc dungeons could be vMA clear.
It checks dps. It checks mechanical skill. And it checks if u can actually attack while doing the mechanics.

There is no vMA clear required for any DLC dungeon.

If a player doesn’t have the mechanical skill or DPS, they will be aware to select normal random ... or risk being booted from the group if they queue for vet. Though in most cases it’s neither of those ... it’s the player not knowing dungeon mechanics.

...if you think that dds that go into vet dlc always have the mechanical skill and dps to clear it, my friend, you are dead wrong.

I agree, but that’s not the dungeon finder’s fault ... that’s on the player.

A player in that category is likely to have problems with regular vet dungeons too. They should queue for normal if that’s the case.

They may have problems - but they will clear it. Base game vet dungeons are a completely different game to DLC vets, and I have no idea why that even is something that needs to be pointed out. You can safely go into most base game vet dungeons with a character that has no business in a DLC vet.

kargen27

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Instead of all these fancy solutions listed above, what would happen if players just took 5 minutes to read up on the mechanics of a DLC dungeon ... so that they can complete it when the random queue pops?

Players many times lack the mechanical skill and sometimes the dps to do it. I still think that one possible dps requirement for dlc dungeons could be vMA clear.
It checks dps. It checks mechanical skill. And it checks if u can actually attack while doing the mechanics.

Edit: also many times guides are misleading and not 100% correct.

With some of the survival builds out and about designed specifically to get through vMA that accomplishment doesn't mean much other than you can clear solo content. When I get a DLC from a random queue and other players want to not even try it I suggest we at least go to the first boss and see how it goes. Sometimes we get to the boss and fail sometimes we make it through the dungeon. There are a lot of players that can do that content but have heard horror stories so are afraid to try. It's fun to see how excited some players get after their first clear.

Taleof2Cities

Varana wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Instead of all these fancy solutions listed above, what would happen if players just took 5 minutes to read up on the mechanics of a DLC dungeon ... so that they can complete it when the random queue pops?

Players many times lack the mechanical skill and sometimes the dps to do it. I still think that one possible dps requirement for dlc dungeons could be vMA clear.
It checks dps. It checks mechanical skill. And it checks if u can actually attack while doing the mechanics.

There is no vMA clear required for any DLC dungeon.

If a player doesn’t have the mechanical skill or DPS, they will be aware to select normal random ... or risk being booted from the group if they queue for vet. Though in most cases it’s neither of those ... it’s the player not knowing dungeon mechanics.

...if you think that dds that go into vet dlc always have the mechanical skill and dps to clear it, my friend, you are dead wrong.

I agree, but that’s not the dungeon finder’s fault ... that’s on the player.

A player in that category is likely to have problems with regular vet dungeons too. They should queue for normal if that’s the case.

They may have problems - but they will clear it. Base game vet dungeons are a completely different game to DLC vets, and I have no idea why that even is something that needs to be pointed out. You can safely go into most base game vet dungeons with a character that has no business in a DLC vet.

Nope.

That’s why the minimum CP requirement for vet DLC dungeons is CP300.

Which will take care of the vast majority of players that can clear regular vet dungeons ... but not vet DLC ones.

After that, it’s on the player over CP300 to know the dungeon mechanics OR queue for normal so they don’t get booted for substandard gameplay.

I have seen no argument in this thread good enough for ZOS to consider making a change. Especially when separating the random queue would mean longer wait times for both sides - vet and vet DLC dungeons.

Bottom Line: Random means RANDOM ... a queue selection from all available choices including DLC dungeons.

Most forum-goers in this thread should be using their time to learn DLC mechanics online ... rather than wasting that time to make yet another forums post on the topic.

idk

It is not different today with new DLC dungeons than it was in May 2014 with the vet dungeons such as vet FG (now called FG II). Do it with a pug group and you end up getting people that do not have a clue about mechanics and cannot see anything outside of their skill bar and the boss.

Some were so bad they could not get the healers down on Mephala's Fang. It seemed like most pug groups had at least one that were so clueless to what was going on around them they would not move away when they were attached to another player by a beam on Gaymne Bandu or notice one of the other players were pinned down by the summon shades in the same fight. Sadly, that still happens today.

So in the end things have not changed. The best solution then is still the best solution today. Form your own group. It is best to do it from guild as pretty much most decent players are in a decent guild but even forming from zone is better than complete randomness. Guild is especially best if you are still learning the fights yourself. Guild mates tend to be more patient.

As To2C points out, random means random. That is not just the dungeon but also the players grouped with.

Side note, Figuring out the old dungeons with guild mates in the early days of 2014 was as much fun as figuring out the latest DLC dungeons added to the game. Truly fun times.

D0PAMINE

I'd be down for vDLC randoms to be rewarded a gold geode.

D0PAMINE

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Instead of all these fancy solutions listed above, what would happen if players just took 5 minutes to read up on the mechanics of a DLC dungeon ... so that they can complete it when the random queue pops?

In addition to players who don't mind explaining the mechanics, I agree.

Contaminate

I still see people kill each other with Bandu’s tether. I tell everyone at the start “move away when tethered” and yet somehow it still happens.

It’s not that people are suddenly being faced with mechanics, it’s that the mechanics they usually ignored are now properly deadly.

idk

D0PAMINE wrote: »

I'd be down for vDLC randoms to be rewarded a gold geode.

And I have suggested that Zos could provide a checkbox to include or exclude DLC dungeons. For those who opt in they would receive a gold level reward based on how many DLC dungeons they have access to.

Gold level rewards would include gold level weapons and jewelry, one gold upgrade matt for any of the four crafts where we can upgrade an item, and I think your idea of a gold geode is an excellent idea.

If we are going to separate the two then there should be a risk vs reward benefit. and this would be the most excellent idea.

gatekeeper13

Veteran DLC and Veteran "base" Dungeons are actually two different worlds in terms of difficulty. CoA2 and DC2 are the only dungeons which are somehow close to DLC difficulty but still, they are far easier.

But the biggest issue for me is the insane gap between Normal and Veteran difficulty, especially in DLC dungeons. Normal dungeons in no way prepare your for veteran difficulty. Also, doing vet DLC dungeons with PUG is a form of self-punishment. You must be a masochist to do them with pug.

In my opinion ZOS should add a "transitional" difficulty mode between the two.

idk

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

In my opinion ZOS should add a "transitional" difficulty mode between the two.

The normal difficulty is for those challenged with the vet difficulty.