Crown Crates Consumer Friendly?

Ringing_Nirnroot

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Always hated crown crates, Always will.

Anotherone773

barney2525 wrote: »

Is this the topic of the month? We gotta see 15 of the same thread ?

OK I'll bite

How Many items can you buy for 5000 crowns ?
compare with
How many items can you get in 15 crown crates - which costs 5000 crowns ?

additionally, you can make a lot of gems in 15 crates as well, and go through and Pick specific items that you were not 'lucky' enough to obtain through the RNG.

IF you WANT to spend LOTS of REAL money - get rid of the crown crates and make every item Ala Carte

IF you Want the BEST VALUE for your money - keep the crown crates

IMHO

A very logical argument.

Flubbles wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Is this the topic of the month? We gotta see 15 of the same thread ?

OK I'll bite

How Many items can you buy for 5000 crowns ?
compare with
How many items can you get in 15 crown crates - which costs 5000 crowns ?

additionally, you can make a lot of gems in 15 crates as well, and go through and Pick specific items that you were not 'lucky' enough to obtain through the RNG.

IF you WANT to spend LOTS of REAL money - get rid of the crown crates and make every item Ala Carte

IF you Want the BEST VALUE for your money - keep the crown crates

IMHO

Or they just you know.... reasonably price them?

The average cost of a video game's development has went up tenfold since 2000 and that is only for standalone one off units. The average price of a subscription has went up 0% since 2000 and has went from mandatory to voluntarily.

The industry found out that some people are willing to spend $100 a month or more on a video game and some can only afford an initial purchase. As price goes up number of players go down. BUT you start to lose players who would pay the higher price because their are not enough people in the video game to them. No one wants to invest their money in a game that feels dead and like it could shut down in the next 6 months.

Enter the MT method. Now those who can afford to spend more can support the game and those who cant or dont want to spend more can still play and have basic to most features of the game. This method worked for a while but then it developed into the whale vs minnow dispute. The whales get all the " cool" stuff and the minnows get free game play and some stuff they can earn. Minnows, like with the never subbers, complain something is off limits to them.

The developers get crafty and allow the whales to gift the minnows some of the whale merchandise usually in exchange for in game currency as the minnows tend to have more free time than the whales, so it is a mutually beneficial relationship. Minnows sort of get a "Sugar Daddy" and whales dont have to grind and do time sinks into activities they dont really enjoy such as earning gold.

The minnows are not happy with this arrangement because the whales still have some stuff that only they can acquire and that is just not fair! So the minnows complain because the system is unfair to them and they want all the same stuff that people who actually keep the lights turned on get.

The minnows will never be satisfied, no matter how much you appease them. The more you give them for free, the more they demand for free. They want everything that a whale has or can get without actually having to make the same sacrifice the whale does, instead of just being happy that the whale allows them to play the game in its current state for its current cost.

So you have the never ending battle between the haves and have nots with the have nots trying like hell to convince everyone that the haves are being immoral, evil, and using/taking advantage of the have nots. Whereas in reality the have nots only have what they currently have because of sacrifices made by the haves. You see this in and out of the game.

The reality of any situation in this game or outside of it is... someone.has.to.pay.for.all.this.stuff. so how do you feel about about $150/ month sub and we just get rid of crown store all together and they give us blue plus crown crate/store items as dailies instead of gold/poisons/ mimic stones/etc.?

Hallothiel

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

One thing that is perhaps being overlooked in all the different threads about crown crates & store prices is that NONE of this is for anything ‘real’ in the physical sense.

These items are pixels, and if they so felt like it, Zos could give all players an apex mount each, no problem. The Kaal statue? Again, can understand (ish) the price if this was an actual physical object of limited number - but it’s not. It’s pixels, and the cost to create is minimal (but just look at the profit!) and it could be reproduced easily without any loss of profit.

Same with crates. There is no need for the system nor does it really add anything to the game. And ‘oh but you can extract gems’ does not justify it as a system.

Gambling in a casino is probably more transparent and fair than the crates! And you apparently sometimes get a ‘free’ drink! 😉

DBZVelena

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

the very fact that you can't buy some of the crates "rewards" outright if you so choose is why it's not consumer friendly. In fact some rewards can't even be gotten with those gems they give for doubles and stuff you don't want (aka the stuff in there that's just junk to most players)

Darkstorne

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Absolutely not consumer friendly. I do buy them from time to time now, despite being adamantly against them for a couple of years when I refused to buy a single one, but I never find myself thinking "just one more try" thank Talos. I don't care if I don't get an apex mount, and certainly never try for a radiant apex. Usually I'm after a skin/pet/mount for up to 100 gems.

No-one can possibly argue in good faith that these things are consumer friendly. Call a spade a spade, lads. It's okay to accept that the game we love isn't perfect in every way. Crates are predatory by design.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

Greetings,

Some posts have been edited and/or removed for naming and shaming and personal attacks.

Iccotak

barney2525 wrote: »

Is this the topic of the month? We gotta see 15 of the same thread ?

OK I'll bite

How Many items can you buy for 5000 crowns ?
compare with
How many items can you get in 15 crown crates - which costs 5000 crowns ?

additionally, you can make a lot of gems in 15 crates as well, and go through and Pick specific items that you were not 'lucky' enough to obtain through the RNG.

IF you WANT to spend LOTS of REAL money - get rid of the crown crates and make every item Ala Carte

IF you Want the BEST VALUE for your money - keep the crown crates

IMHO

except one could argue that you are not getting the best value for your money when crates on average contain items that are junk to the average player. (EDIT: As well as poor gem return)

WiseSky

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Clothing Shopping Consumer Friendly

Today I was walking by a Footwear store and saw a Radiant Blue Pair of Shoes with fancy lights!

I immediately walked into the store and asked how much!

The store Clerk informed me that they are not for Sale and that the only way I could get them is to give him 10$ and he will give me a Random Shoe Box that may contain any pair of shoes in the store and even the Radiant Blue Pair of Shoes!

I said WOW AMAZING that is really Consumer Friendly! Shut Up and Take my Money!

After 800$ I Finally got a Radiant pair of Shoes... But I got the Radiant Pink Pair version
I stopped there and went away with 69 pairs of old beat down shoes I wont ever wear but I traded them for store credit called Gemz, Sadly I cant trade Gemz for my Radiant Blue Pair of shoes.

Contaminate

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Anyone who claims gambling is ever consumer friendly is one or two things:
- Intentionally dishonest
- A complete sucker

Sometimes both, but there’s no logical way to argue that requiring gambling for an item is ever good for a consumer.

Kahnak

Contaminate wrote: »

Anyone who claims gambling is ever consumer friendly is one or two things:
- Intentionally dishonest
- A complete sucker

Sometimes both, but there’s no logical way to argue that requiring gambling for an item is ever good for a consumer.

Anyone who resorts to generalizing about people with a different opinion is either one or two things:
- too lazy to formulate a counter argument
- deliberately trying to misrepresent people that they disagree with

You see how that works? Now, if that's not you, maybe you should rethink your approach. You can't invoke logic and then proceed to provide nothing logical.

Kahnak

WiseSky wrote: »

Clothing Shopping Consumer Friendly

Today I was talking by a Footwear store and saw a Radiant Blue Pair of Shoes with fancy lights!

I immediately walked into the store and asked how much!

The store Clerk informed me that they are not for Sale and that the only way I could get them is to give him 10$ and he will give me a Random Shoe Box that may contain any pair of shoes in the store and even the Radiant Blue Pair of Shoes!

I said WOW AMAZING that is really Consumer Friendly! Shut Up and Take my Money!

After 800$ I Finally got a Radiant pair of Shoes... But I got the Radiant Pink Pair version
I stopped there and went away with 69 pairs of old beat down shoes I wont ever wear but I traded them for store credit called Gemz, Sadly I cant trade Gemz for my Radiant Blue Pair of shoes.

Here we are again, conflating direct transactions with gambling. You don't gamble when you go to the shoe store, dude. It's not an accurate representation of the exchange. You're not buying a product when you buy Crown Crates - you buy the chance at a variety of products. When you gamble, you are buying the chance at a variety of outcomes, not a single outcome. If that's too much nuance for you, that's fine, just stop pretending that this hypothetical is in any way similar.

Kahnak

Tigerseye wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

What do you mean by consumer friendly? Such a vague term. This poll seems skewed towards one answer.

It is skewed towards one answer.

Items that are consumer friendly do not have to be made for direct purchase and things that are made for direct purchase do not have to necessarily be consumer friendly. They are mutually exclusive.

The question isn't whether the items are consumer-friendly.

The question is whether the manner in which they are sold is, or not.

If an item for sale is consumer friendly, that would indicate that the manner in which they are sold is consumer friendly. Not quite sure what is confusing about that. People wouldn't bother identifying something as consumer friendly if the intention was to NOT sell it.

Coppes

Is there a law that says companies have to be “consumer friendly”. As long as they’re not misleading you then it’s consumer friendly.

It’s a more unenforced guideline.

Just because you don’t like an option != consumer unfriendly

Contaminate

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Kahnak wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

Anyone who claims gambling is ever consumer friendly is one or two things:
- Intentionally dishonest
- A complete sucker

Sometimes both, but there’s no logical way to argue that requiring gambling for an item is ever good for a consumer.

Anyone who resorts to generalizing about people with a different opinion is either one or two things:
- too lazy to formulate a counter argument
- deliberately trying to misrepresent people that they disagree with

You see how that works? Now, if that's not you, maybe you should rethink your approach. You can't invoke logic and then proceed to provide nothing logical.

You proven multiple times you consider “it makes the company money” as a good reason for exploitative practices. I don’t hold a high value of your opinion especially when you have absolutely no evidence at all that requiring gambling to obtain an item is ever in the consumers best interests. Because it isn’t Ever.

WiseSky

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Anotherone773 wrote: »

...
They arent using rational arguments and they are trying to get you to counter argue even the most ridiculous scenarios.

Anotherone773 wrote: »
I find crown crates to be very consumer friendly

PizzaCat82

How would this benefit the bottom line of ZOS? Since these are totally cosmetic and provide the company with a large portion of its revenue, The average price of the items would have to increase.

woe

Yes, Crown Crates are consumer friendly - the system is fine as it is

Everyone complaining needs to chill. Gambling and mystery item or lotteries have been a thing forever and this isn't any different. You either attempt to get an item or don't. Do you go into the gas station and then spend a *** ton of money on lottery tickets just because they look cool?

Bradyfjord

Yes, Crown Crates are consumer friendly - the system is fine as it is

I voted yes, but there's always room to improve. Areas of possible improvement are:
Quality of items
Price point
Drop rates
Clearer communication about drop rates/value proposition

To me, as long as crates do not contain power/skills/set items, then it is a fine system. It's not like you have to buy them to complete content.

Kahnak

Contaminate wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

Anyone who claims gambling is ever consumer friendly is one or two things:
- Intentionally dishonest
- A complete sucker

Sometimes both, but there’s no logical way to argue that requiring gambling for an item is ever good for a consumer.

Anyone who resorts to generalizing about people with a different opinion is either one or two things:
- too lazy to formulate a counter argument
- deliberately trying to misrepresent people that they disagree with

You see how that works? Now, if that's not you, maybe you should rethink your approach. You can't invoke logic and then proceed to provide nothing logical.

You proven multiple times you consider “it makes the company money” as a good reason for exploitative practices. I don’t hold a high value of your opinion especially when you have absolutely no evidence at all that requiring gambling to obtain an item is ever in the consumers best interests. Because it isn’t Ever.

You proven multiple times you consider “it makes the company money” as a good reason for exploitative practices.

No, you simply haven't provided any evidence that a company making a decision that makes more money is exploitative. If you CAN'T do that, then you don't have an argument. Instead of formulating an argument you've resorted to attempting to shame people by questioning their morality.

"I don’t hold a high value of your opinion especially when you have absolutely no evidence at all that requiring gambling to obtain an item is ever in the consumers best interests. Because it isn’t Ever."

You don't have a high value of my opinion because of something I never said, or argued? Huh, that sounds remarkably like a strawman. Your opinion of my opinion is irrelevant if you can't prove me wrong, but nice try deflecting from the fact that you can't seem to stop generalizing about the people that don't agree with you. In fact, you're generalizing so hard that you're trying to attribute an argument to me that I never made. That's some serious cognitive dissonance at play.

Kahnak

WiseSky wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

...
They arent using rational arguments and they are trying to get you to counter argue even the most ridiculous scenarios.

Anotherone773 wrote: »
I find crown crates to be very consumer friendly

What is inherently irrational about this that you're trying to illustrate here? Apparently, it's so self evident that you didn't even bother elaborating. Besides the fact that he went on to try and qualify his statement and you completely omitted that from your quote. Things aren't irrational simply because you disagree with them.

Unseelie

Crown crates are totally cosmetic and do not affect game play in any way. Nobody is entitled to what is in them no matter how strongly some people here believe that they are entitled to anything and everything.
Do not buy them if you do not like them. Very simple.
IF crated contained things that had an effect on gameplay and tilted balance than it may possibly be different.

Amphithoe

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

I think they could earn a lot of respect if they disbanded the crown crate program along with timed exclusives.

Tabbycat

Everyone knows Crown Crates are whale friendly. That's the point of them. To make ZOS money.

I'll occasionally buy one when I have an extra 400 crowns leftover from the ESO+ crowns. Had good luck this last one, got a horse from it.

They are like lottery tickets. You are going to lose more often than win. I certainly wouldn't buy them with the expectation of getting a specific item from them. You'd likely have to spend a fortune if you did that. Unless you were just super lucky. And if I was going to have that kind of luck, I'd honestly rather buy a lottery ticket.

Kendaric

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Unseelie wrote: »

Crown crates are totally cosmetic and do not affect game play in any way. Nobody is entitled to what is in them no matter how strongly some people here believe that they are entitled to anything and everything.
Do not buy them if you do not like them. Very simple.
IF crated contained things that had an effect on gameplay and tilted balance than it may possibly be different.

What someone considers to be important varies for everybody. For me, for example, the crown crates have a rather drastic effect on my gameplay and hence on my enjoyment of the game, since for me cosmetics are a big part of the game.
On the other hand I couldn't care less if the crates contained things that would affect PvP or trials.

The crates would be a lot more consumer friendly if they'd allow us to turn any unwanted collectibles into gems instead of just duplicates and consaumables.

Geekgirl

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

It is pretty well-established that any "successful" gambling establishment chooses games that benefit the house.

It's not surprising that these "gambling" crates are stacked so that the "house" wins (you get another experience scroll!) more often than you do (wicked awesome mount of the month!) and you can't blame the system, since it's one we all should recognize.

The nefarious part of this system is that gambling, which this is, can be an addictive behavior. Crown Crates are a form of gambling and at the very least each purchase should come with a warning pop-up that calls the system what it is and reminds players that gambling is an addictive action.

That all said, an unpopular opinion here: The Loot Boxes are working as intended as a revenue stream for Zeni. They never once claimed that these loot boxes were "consumer friendly" nor do they require us to purchase them.

It is key to note that I am not saying I support loot box systems, rather I *understand* why they're used.

I think that it would be a wonderful move to scrap the loot boxes and instead offer the items up for direct purchase. However, so long as laws allow it, I don't see the system changing as it makes far too much of a revenue.

Iccotak

Based on the conversation in this thread a new poll will be made at a later date for a more nuanced discussion

RefLiberty

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Crown crates are gamble boxes. Gambling has been recognized in psychiatry as psychological disorder and addiction.
Cannot vote for that.
Also, in gaming industry, I personally consider them were as dirty way to pick someones wallet, cannot vote for that reason no.2
I don't recommend Eso to other people because of crown crate existence, I don't want to recommend a product that have that in offer, although I have no problem with it and I don't buy them, I won't recommend the game to friends because game have a feature that I consider personally a bad thing.

Acrolas

Kendaric wrote: »

What someone considers to be important varies for everybody. For me, for example, the crown crates have a rather drastic effect on my gameplay and hence on my enjoyment of the game, since for me cosmetics are a big part of the game. On the other hand I couldn't care less if the crates contained things that would affect PvP or trials.

Importance isn't the metric, though. Conditions that affect gameplay are quantitative - objective and calculable results. Cosmetics and roleplay items are qualitative - subjective evaluations of satisfaction and experience.

Both are valuable data-collection methods. But a quantitative change can be felt whether you like it or not. That's why people wore monster sets long before the Outfit system. It didn't matter if you liked how the set looked. But you needed what it offered because it could be objectively measured as you played.

Crate contents can't be objectively measured in any other way other than counting how many there are. So when somebody says that they don't affect gameplay, it's strictly quantitative. It's not meant to downplay how much a pet or costume can be enjoyed. Nor can it factor in certain psychological buffs one can experience while playing a highly personalized character. Confidence still has its mysteries.


As far as the original question, the 'success' rate of a crate is based off of its base price of 400 crowns. At 400 crowns, you will typically receive some consumables and a Superior level reward. Itemized, this is at least 400 crowns worth of items. You are getting what you paid for, even if it's not exactly what you wanted. That's always been my expectation. Nothing more than a Superior level item. When I run out of Superior tier rewards, I buy what I want with gems and move on. I only buy the 15 packs specifically to farm gems off random rewards. I have done so, so much better on all 13 crate seasons off single and 4-pack purchases.

I wouldn't say the system is ideal, nor am I ever going to condone Bethesda hiring the individual who introduced these to the game. Questionable work history, bad fit for the company, bad fit for ESO, didn't last long. But it's an okay system. It's not the demon some people make it out to be. If you honestly feel that you didn't get at least 400 crowns worth of rewards from any one crate, send in a support ticket. Because that's the only way anyone can argue a loss, which is an important prerequisite for any gambling argument (X input = Y output that is rarely more than X but most often less than X).

Iccotak

Acrolas wrote: »

I wouldn't say the system is ideal, nor am I ever going to condone Bethesda hiring the individual who introduced these to the game. Questionable work history, bad fit for the company, bad fit for ESO, didn't last long. But it's an okay system. It's not the demon some people make it out to be. If you honestly feel that you didn't get at least 400 crowns worth of rewards from any one crate, send in a support ticket. Because that's the only way anyone can argue a loss, which is an important prerequisite for any gambling argument (X input = Y output that is rarely more than X but most often less than X).

@Acrolas
Who was it they hired?

Acrolas

Iccotak wrote: »

Who was it they hired?

It can be researched, but it's still a form of name and shame. And former employees still enjoy the same protections that current employees do. As they should, regardless of personal opinions.

But I can still in a general non-identifying sense not be thrilled by it.