Crown Crates Consumer Friendly?

Iccotak

Are Crown Crates consumer friendly?
Do you think they offer a good deal to the customer such as yourself?

Should ZOS end the Crown Crate practice and make all the items we can get available for direct purchase in the Crown Store? The Crown Store themed items would change around every 3 months (give or take). For limited time previous themed items will return for purchase - just like the crown crate system but now with direct purchase power.

Or do you think the system is fine as it is and players are "Cheap" because they don't want to have to participate in an RNG lootbox system?

Consumer Friendly defined:

Customer/Consumer friendly is a term for products, services and experiences that are designed from the customer's point of view. Many firms adopt the principle that what is good for the customer, is good for the firm and seek to make decisions from a customer perspective

svartorn

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Gambling crates with random contents are most certainly not consumer friendly.

Theoretically you could buy 400 crates and still not get the item you want.

Donny_Vito

What do you mean by consumer friendly? Such a vague term. This poll seems skewed towards one answer.

AcadianPaladin

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Happy to spend crowns if I know exactly what I'm getting for my crowns (normal crown store purchases). Never have, never will buy a mystery box with unknown content.

Royaji

They are consumer neutral. Same way as any other item for sale.

Either you take an offered deal and buy it or you don't. Simple.

xeNNNNN

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Donny_Vito wrote: »

What do you mean by consumer friendly? Such a vague term. This poll seems skewed towards one answer.

Hardly, consumer friendly has always mean't in translation; "Is it healthy and beneficial for the consumer"

In other words are the practices in place by a business predatory or not. Is the company attempting to milk the consumer rather than provide the consumer were a quality product etc That sort of thing.

Hard truth for business, if you need to milk your consumer to meet your quarterly quota then you aren't producing or maintaining a quality product.

ZeroXFF

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Crown crates would be ok, if they only contained stuff you already can buy directly. As it is right now though, it's not healthy.

I would go even farther though. Putting up "limited time only" items in the shop is also an anti-consumer practice. This isn't physical goods they are selling that can run out and it takes time to restock or you need to invest money in continuing production. The only investment is for the initial creation of the good, and all the copies of it are free unlike with a physical piece of clothing or a chair. So really the only reason to make stuff available only for a limited time is to *** with the customers.

Iccotak

Donny_Vito wrote: »

What do you mean by consumer friendly? Such a vague term. This poll seems skewed towards one answer.

as in the system is fair to the customer and/or you're getting the best deal for your buck.
With the duplicates and drop rate of items.

Consumer Friendly defined in our modern economy

Customer/Consumer friendly is a term for products, services and experiences that are designed from the customer's point of view. Many firms adopt the principle that what is good for the customer, is good for the firm and seek to make decisions from a customer perspective

cheifsoap

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Absolutely not. They're designed to prey on addicts. Like slot machines, like scratch offs, etc.

Royaji

Also, here is a question none of the anti-crown crates guys has given me an answer to yet.

If ZOS were to put all of the items from the crates into the store for direct purchase but priced them at what they would cost through crates (about 100$ for tier 1 reward, 400$ for an apex, 1500$ for a radiant) would you stop complaining or would you blame ZOS for their predatory pricing model?

Donny_Vito

Customer/Consumer friendly is a term for products, services and experiences that are designed from the customer's point of view. Many firms adopt the principle that what is good for the customer, is good for the firm and seek to make decisions from a customer perspective

That is exactly my point. It's extremely vague.

Iccotak

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Customer/Consumer friendly is a term for products, services and experiences that are designed from the customer's point of view. Many firms adopt the principle that what is good for the customer, is good for the firm and seek to make decisions from a customer perspective

That is exactly my point. It's extremely vague.

Do you @Donny_Vito the individual, as a consumer, find the Crown Crates system Consumer Friendly? As in you have no qualms or issues. That it works just great for you.

That is the question.

It's not vague it's asking your personal feelings regarding the system.
You like the system as it is - or you don't

randomkeyhits

I'd have to say not but for slightly different reasons to most.

Gambling is what it is, if you can make an informed decision on the gamble then fine, no problems there.

I don't think I've enough data points but from my perspective the loot tables look to be skewed, take the legendary level rewards as an example. Lots of choices but Ive only ever had one reward at that level that wasn't the damned exp scroll, you know, the ones they give away as a login rewards. Any other legendary I've gotten from crates has been with gems.

It may have just been bad RNG for me but I decided to take it personally, after all I'm paying.... and decided that the rewards do not have equal chances within a tier.

Totally subjective but games of chance always are.

xeNNNNN

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Royaji wrote: »

Also, here is a question none of the anti-crown crates guys has given me an answer to yet.

If ZOS were to put all of the items from the crates into the store for direct purchase but priced them at what they would cost through crates (about 100$ for tier 1 reward, 400$ for an apex, 1500$ for a radiant) would you stop complaining or would you blame ZOS for their predatory pricing model?

Pricing it through crates worth just pulls over the problems already existing with it and ones that I already disagree with in the crownstore.

A while ago I did a cost analysis of how much it would cost an individual player to buy all the riding lessons for all 8 default slot characters people have access too and it ranged in the hundreds of pounds. Riding lessons should be 100 crowns per not 1000. They are intentionally overestimating their worth.

You should not be able to buy skill lines and regardless of that seeing as we can they are overpriced as well.

I will never be happy with the crown store until they get their prices in check I rarely buy from it because the prices are so jacked I mean 5000 crowns for a transmutation interactable for housing?

Thats £25 pounds for a singular object that you can interact with in your house. That is absurd. £10 is far more reasonable. But anything regarding stations shouldn't be in the crownstore anyway their acquisition should be keyed to gameplay only.

Just because we want flat prices for whatever we want to buy instead of this RNG BS it doesn't mean we are also just going to be happy with absurd pricing. Look at SWTOR for example, £55 for a lightsaber visual for the hilt. 55! and the community was rightfully disgusted.

Even if crowncrates get removed which I hope they will, doesn't mean the fight for fairness to us as consumers especially those of us who've supported the game for half a decade ends immediately a new fight begins after crown crates which is reasonable prices.

The constant argument I hear as well is if you say they can't do X or Y in the crown-store then you are just trying to make them go out of business or lose a crap ton of money. This is simply not true, lowering the prices would be a good will gesture which will resonate with players and those players would then see the permanent price drop and take a look at the store the store in turn would become far more used because the pricing would be far more reasonable and thus earning them more consistent revenue in the long term.

The biggest issue with this whole thing is executives tunnel vision on consistent revenue streams and see loot-boxes as a quick and easy way to make a ridiculous amount of money get them removed and have them start considering quality instead of quantity and they will end up garnering so much good will that people will buy just to support. This isthe thing we as consumers need to pull them out of this "milk them because we can mentality" the industry has become so horrid over the last 10 years. Ever since F2P games became way too marketable and lucrative i.e the asian FPS rip of CS "Crossfire".

Donny_Vito

Do you @Donny_Vito the individual, as a consumer, find the Crown Crates system Consumer Friendly? As in you have no qualms or issues. That it works just great for you.

With how I define consumer friendly, yes they are. They are easy to purchase. They have items that I want. I do not have to purchase them if I don't want to. The crown crates specify exactly what can be obtained from them, nothing is hidden. I don't see how there is anything wrong given the fact that they are optional.

Royaji

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Also, here is a question none of the anti-crown crates guys has given me an answer to yet.

If ZOS were to put all of the items from the crates into the store for direct purchase but priced them at what they would cost through crates (about 100$ for tier 1 reward, 400$ for an apex, 1500$ for a radiant) would you stop complaining or would you blame ZOS for their predatory pricing model?

Pricing it through crates worth just pulls over the problems already existing with it and ones that I already disagree with in the crownstore.

(snip)

Cool. Let's try another one. What if ZOS removed all items from the Crown Store, put them all into Crates but Crates were one cent a pop and there were twenty items in every one of them?

Are the Crates still a "predatory mechanic that targets gambling addicts" or are they fine now because you can get all the items you want for cheap?

Kahnak

Donny_Vito wrote: »

What do you mean by consumer friendly? Such a vague term. This poll seems skewed towards one answer.

It is skewed towards one answer.

Items that are consumer friendly do not have to be made for direct purchase and things that are made for direct purchase do not have to necessarily be consumer friendly. They are mutually exclusive.

Starlock

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

I don't agree with the forced reasoning put in the poll option, because it's not about me wanting to see the items available for direct purchase. Direct purchases are done in ways that are just as anti-customer as gambling, which this game also does. But that's getting ahead of things - let's make no mistake: gambling is fundamentally anti-customer. The customer always gets the worser end of the deal with gambling; it's a fundamentally inequitable exchange.

There is a way to design gamble boxes in ways that are more equitable, though. At that point, they cease really being gamble boxes in many respects. Here's how you do it:

Create loot crates of non-consumable, randomized content. All possible content is disclosed to the customer with full transparency, including precise odds of drawing each item and previews for all items. When a customer opens a loot crate, the randomized draws must follow one of the following models: (1) customers cannot draw items they already own, or (2) customers can draw items they already own and they are exchangeable at a 1-for-1 ratio for an item of their choice they do not already own. With this model, there is a FIXED amount of money a customer must spend to obtain all collectibles.

That is what equitable, randomized loot crates would look like. But these companies do not want it to be equitable. They don't want to be fair to you, the customer. If that isn't anti-customer, I don't know what is.

kargen27

Yes, Crown Crates are consumer friendly - the system is fine as it is

I voted yes because they are consumer friendly in the sense that the consumer can decide to purchase them or not and either decision will not impact their game play in any way other than cosmetics.

I would like to see the way they work changed a bit though so there really was no correct option for me to properly express my opinion. As others have mentioned poll is biased by the way the choices are worded.

MEBengalsFan2001

Yes, Crown Crates are consumer friendly - the system is fine as it is

Crown crates are consumer friendly because they offer styles and you don't need them to get the most out of ESO; it is simply cosmetic. If the items in the crate provided an advantage to the player who obtain the unique top award item than it woulnn't be consumer friendly.

The reason the crate is consumer friendly is that the items acquired are typically higher than if you were to buy the same items through the normal market place. The gambling component is where there is an issue but since the top prizes are cosmetic only it isn't that big of a deal IMO.

Other games I have played placed the best items that provide an advantage in crates or lockboxes and when that is the case those lockboxes/crates are not consumer friendly.

Kahnak

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Also, here is a question none of the anti-crown crates guys has given me an answer to yet.

If ZOS were to put all of the items from the crates into the store for direct purchase but priced them at what they would cost through crates (about 100$ for tier 1 reward, 400$ for an apex, 1500$ for a radiant) would you stop complaining or would you blame ZOS for their predatory pricing model?

Pricing it through crates worth just pulls over the problems already existing with it and ones that I already disagree with in the crownstore.

A while ago I did a cost analysis of how much it would cost an individual player to buy all the riding lessons for all 8 default slot characters people have access too and it ranged in the hundreds of pounds. Riding lessons should be 100 crowns per not 1000. They are intentionally overestimating their worth.

You should not be able to buy skill lines and regardless of that seeing as we can they are overpriced as well.

I will never be happy with the crown store until they get their prices in check I rarely buy from it because the prices are so jacked I mean 5000 crowns for a transmutation interactable for housing?

Thats £25 pounds for a singular object that you can interact with in your house. That is absurd. £10 is far more reasonable. But anything regarding stations shouldn't be in the crownstore anyway their acquisition should be keyed to gameplay only.

Just because we want flat prices for whatever we want to buy instead of this RNG BS it doesn't mean we are also just going to be happy with absurd pricing. Look at SWTOR for example, £55 for a lightsaber visual for the hilt. 55! and the community was rightfully disgusted.

Even if crowncrates get removed which I hope they will, doesn't mean the fight for fairness to us as consumers especially those of us who've supported the game for half a decade ends immediately a new fight begins after crown crates which is reasonable prices.

The constant argument I hear as well is if you say they can't do X or Y in the crown-store then you are just trying to make them go out of business or lose a crap ton of money. This is simply not true, lowering the prices would be a good will gesture which will resonate with players and those players would then see the permanent price drop and take a look at the store the store in turn would become far more used because the pricing would be far more reasonable and thus earning them more consistent revenue in the long term.

The biggest issue with this whole thing is executives tunnel vision on consistent revenue streams and see loot-boxes as a quick and easy way to make a ridiculous amount of money get them removed and have them start considering quality instead of quantity and they will end up garnering so much good will that people will buy just to support. This isthe thing we as consumers need to pull them out of this "milk them because we can mentality" the industry has become so horrid over the last 10 years. Ever since F2P games became way too marketable and lucrative i.e the asian FPS rip of CS "Crossfire".

Starlock wrote: »

I don't agree with the forced reasoning put in the poll option, because it's not about me wanting to see the items available for direct purchase. Direct purchases are done in ways that are just as anti-customer as gambling, which this game also does. But that's getting ahead of things - let's make no mistake: gambling is fundamentally anti-customer. The customer always gets the worser end of the deal with gambling; it's a fundamentally inequitable exchange.

There is a way to design gamble boxes in ways that are more equitable, though. At that point, they cease really being gamble boxes in many respects. Here's how you do it:

Create loot crates of non-consumable, randomized content. All possible content is disclosed to the customer with full transparency, including precise odds of drawing each item and previews for all items. When a customer opens a loot crate, the randomized draws must follow one of the following models: (1) customers cannot draw items they already own, or (2) customers can draw items they already own and they are exchangeable at a 1-for-1 ratio for an item of their choice they do not already own. With this model, there is a FIXED amount of money a customer must spend to obtain all collectibles.

That is what equitable, randomized loot crates would look like. But these companies do not want it to be equitable. They don't want to be fair to you, the customer. If that isn't anti-customer, I don't know what is.

"I don't agree with the forced reasoning put in the poll option, because it's not about me wanting to see the items available for direct purchase. Direct purchases are done in ways that are just as anti-customer as gambling, which this game also does. But that's getting ahead of things - let's make no mistake: gambling is fundamentally anti-customer. The customer always gets the worser end of the deal with gambling; it's a fundamentally inequitable exchange."

Gambling is not fundamentally anti-customer. If it were, people would not gamble. Gambling is fundamentally unfair, but there is also a chance that things can be unfair in your favor - that's an important distinction. People spend money because there is a chance that they can get something for less through the luck of the draw. People do get Apex mounts in one crate. It's rare, but it happens, so your assertion that the gambler always gets the raw deal is demonstrably wrong.

Additionally, equity does not equal fairness. If the customer is aware that the odds are not in their favor and they proceed with the exchange, then the exchange is fair, but not equitable.

Kahnak

-

idk

Are crown crates consumer friendly. Considering they obviously sell some do think they are fine. If enough players did not like them and as such did not support them we would not have them.

So in the end, everyone that answered no should be players who do not buy crates like myself. Otherwise it seems rather hypocritical.

1mirg

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

I'll admit, I've bought alot of crown crates and didn't get everything i'd wanted but i still kept buying them in hopes to get the things that i wanted throughout the years. I'm not sure the exact amount but i'm almost positive it's way over the $500 mark.

Why is that important? Simple really, i understand the appeal of the crown crates. Yet even I must admit they are NOT consumer friendly in the slightest. When you get a crown crate it's essentially a gamble on whether you get the thing you want or not. If you don't then you'll either spend more until you are satisfied or somewhat satisfied or have spent way too much. There is no limit on the amount of crates you can get and the game pretty much rewards spending ludicrous amounts on said crates as well. This is essentially why I stopped buying the crates as of last year, not because i don't have the income for them but because it's not consumer friendly.

I would rather they just allowed me to buy the thing i wanted instead of placing it into essentially a slot machine card game. It's also because of the crown crates that I never recommend this game to anyone offline. If the company wants to be consumer friendly then they'll either have to restrict earning gems (the thing you earn via the crown crates) and crown crates to only earnable drops ingame during events or completely remove the crown crates and just do limited time sales on the items in said crates instead.

At the end of the day though the crown crates more then likely will never go as the company prob earns alot of money from them. But if i was in charge I would just tell them that they need to go, period. They are not consumer friendly and they're nothing more then rewarding gambling with real life currency.

Contaminate

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Royaji wrote: »

Also, here is a question none of the anti-crown crates guys has given me an answer to yet.

If ZOS were to put all of the items from the crates into the store for direct purchase but priced them at what they would cost through crates (about 100$ for tier 1 reward, 400$ for an apex, 1500$ for a radiant) would you stop complaining or would you blame ZOS for their predatory pricing model?

That would absolutely be better than gambling crates. It’s not good but it’s significantly better having costs presented behind one digital currency than behind two currencies + RNG.

TigressCreed

Yes, Crown Crates are consumer friendly - the system is fine as it is

Royaji wrote: »

Also, here is a question none of the anti-crown crates guys has given me an answer to yet.

If ZOS were to put all of the items from the crates into the store for direct purchase but priced them at what they would cost through crates (about 100$ for tier 1 reward, 400$ for an apex, 1500$ for a radiant) would you stop complaining or would you blame ZOS for their predatory pricing model?

People being people will still complain. The whole point of crates is centred around surprise and mystery so you never know what you get. Personally I like that. I also know my limits and don’t spend a pay check on virtual things.

Nemesis7884

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

of course they are not consumer friendly...the question is just always will the alternative be better when statues now already cost 4000 crowns ^^

ku5h

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Royaji wrote: »

Also, here is a question none of the anti-crown crates guys has given me an answer to yet.

If ZOS were to put all of the items from the crates into the store for direct purchase but priced them at what they would cost through crates (about 100$ for tier 1 reward, 400$ for an apex, 1500$ for a radiant) would you stop complaining or would you blame ZOS for their predatory pricing model?

No one can answer that question because you've put just absurd numbers in there. 1500$ for what? How much crowns is that? Must be several hundreds of thousands.

Only reason i dislike Crates is because all new cosmetic designs go i there, while Crown store hasn't got anything exciting, except housing, in years. Literally only one skin for....ever.

Shame, since i'm not a gambler i have nowhere else to spend my Crowns worthwhile.

Siohwenoeht

Until we have more specific legal definitions, I hesitate to call them "gambling". As it is, you are guaranteed 4 random items with a chance at higher value items. As others have pointed out, it's similar to any trading cards out there. You know quantity at purchase, but the individual items and their quality are random.

What I would like to see is published odds on the different quality tiers and the option to outright purchase all items. The cost is laughably high on some things, but if zos has customers willing to pay outrageous prices for pixels more power to them.

TelvanniWizard

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Poll numbers seem pretty clear to me.

Shantu

Yes, Crown Crates are consumer friendly - the system is fine as it is

I like them when they give them to me. Otherwise, I've never spent a dime on one...and I've spent a LOT of money on Crowns over the last few years. Nobody twists my arm to buy them and they aren't required to play the game.

I can see, however, for those with destructive gambling habits where they might be controversial in regard to consumer friendliness. But if you go that route, where do you draw the line? If you're paying a subscription or for other DLC and/or chapters, with all the annoying and downright maddening RGN, much of the game is like one big Crown Crate.

But my vote on the matter is biased because I don't have issues with gambling.