Crown Crates Consumer Friendly?

Coppes

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Also, here is a question none of the anti-crown crates guys has given me an answer to yet.

If ZOS were to put all of the items from the crates into the store for direct purchase but priced them at what they would cost through crates (about 100$ for tier 1 reward, 400$ for an apex, 1500$ for a radiant) would you stop complaining or would you blame ZOS for their predatory pricing model?

Pricing it through crates worth just pulls over the problems already existing with it and ones that I already disagree with in the crownstore.

A while ago I did a cost analysis of how much it would cost an individual player to buy all the riding lessons for all 8 default slot characters people have access too and it ranged in the hundreds of pounds. Riding lessons should be 100 crowns per not 1000. They are intentionally overestimating their worth.

You should not be able to buy skill lines and regardless of that seeing as we can they are overpriced as well.

I will never be happy with the crown store until they get their prices in check I rarely buy from it because the prices are so jacked I mean 5000 crowns for a transmutation interactable for housing?

Thats £25 pounds for a singular object that you can interact with in your house. That is absurd. £10 is far more reasonable. But anything regarding stations shouldn't be in the crownstore anyway their acquisition should be keyed to gameplay only.

Just because we want flat prices for whatever we want to buy instead of this RNG BS it doesn't mean we are also just going to be happy with absurd pricing. Look at SWTOR for example, £55 for a lightsaber visual for the hilt. 55! and the community was rightfully disgusted.

Even if crowncrates get removed which I hope they will, doesn't mean the fight for fairness to us as consumers especially those of us who've supported the game for half a decade ends immediately a new fight begins after crown crates which is reasonable prices.

The constant argument I hear as well is if you say they can't do X or Y in the crown-store then you are just trying to make them go out of business or lose a crap ton of money. This is simply not true, lowering the prices would be a good will gesture which will resonate with players and those players would then see the permanent price drop and take a look at the store the store in turn would become far more used because the pricing would be far more reasonable and thus earning them more consistent revenue in the long term.

The biggest issue with this whole thing is executives tunnel vision on consistent revenue streams and see loot-boxes as a quick and easy way to make a ridiculous amount of money get them removed and have them start considering quality instead of quantity and they will end up garnering so much good will that people will buy just to support. This isthe thing we as consumers need to pull them out of this "milk them because we can mentality" the industry has become so horrid over the last 10 years. Ever since F2P games became way too marketable and lucrative i.e the asian FPS rip of CS "Crossfire".

Riding Lessons are not 1 per 1000 crowns. It’s 10 per 1000 crowns.

Anotherone773

I like how you took something i said, removed all the context from around it (AKA: quote mined it), created a poll without any context to what you mean, added a technical definition, and will try to use that to prove some strawman.

Good job, not really. Its actually pretty sad.

Without getting into the entire scope of the thread this poll is based off of...( paraphrasing)

1) Someone said " Crown crates are predatory because they prey on people with a gambling addiction..etc.

2) I replied with " I find Crown crates to be consumer friendly."

3) When i needed to elaborated, i explained how crown crates are not predatory and why i find them consumer friendly( compared to other similar "loot crates")

* They are optional.
* They are barely advertised.
* You are guaranteed not one win, but 4 wins, sometimes 5, every single time.
* Duplicate items and some other items can be converted to gems.
* Those gems can be used to buy any 90 plus items except 3 exclusive items in the crate.

Therefore it is, in my opinion, very consumer friendly.(when compared to other loot crates)

(snip)

Now you have context, not that it matters.

(edited for naming and shaming)

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Yes, Crown Crates are consumer friendly - the system is fine as it is

I voted yes because the crates offer me exactly what I am looking for.

A very occasional bit of fun with a game of chance.

One pack of fifteen per season.

That's the opposite of irresponsible spending, especially now it seems to be a trend for there to be a discount as they phase out.

FierceSam

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

The absolute definition of an exploitative practice.

Nothing nice about them whatsoever.

Iccotak

@Anotherone773
this isn't about you.
This is taking the Crown Crate conversation and i decided to make a poll to have numbers and see how people on the forums feel about them.

You say whether or not, from your perspective, if you find the practice consumer friendly and you are free to express why you feel that way. That's it.

Nordic__Knights

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

As an player with over 8000$ into game because i like to have nice things and support the games i play i cast my vote as with the amount of money ive put into it in 5 years i should at less have 1 apex mount but nope not the case at all just dont have that kind of luck i guess

Tigerseye

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

On the whole, no they are not.

This is because it is unlikely that one would like sufficient items, from a single season, to make buying crates from it worthwhile.

If, on the other hand, you do happen to like (and would be happy to receive) almost every reward from a single season, then they can be.

As you can then buy a lot of crates from that season alone - both for those rewards and for the gem refunds.

So, you can then use those gems to buy other random things, from other seasons you don't like many of the rewards from, in future; rather than buying crates from those seasons.

However, liking almost everything from a single season is, obviously, a fairly atypical scenario.

So, as I say, on the whole they are not.

Freakin_Hytte

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

I'll never understand people that would rather gamble and have a tiiiiny chance getting what you actually want, instead of being able to just buy the thing you want for a set price with crowns.

Tigerseye

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

idk wrote: »

Are crown crates consumer friendly. Considering they obviously sell some do think they are fine. If enough players did not like them and as such did not support them we would not have them.

So in the end, everyone that answered no should be players who do not buy crates like myself. Otherwise it seems rather hypocritical.

Rubbish.

It's not a case of how many they sell, or even whether some people like them, or not.

Neither defines whether something is consumer-friendly, or not.

Some people, who bought them, could have just been curious and others may have compulsive gambling problems and so, can't not buy them.

Then others still may buy the crates occasionally, because they have no other choice, if they want certain items.

None of those options mean the people concerned can't still feel they are consumer-unfriendly, despite having bought them.

Having an opinion on feeling forced to buy products a certain way is not "hypocritical".

...and in fact, we are forced, all the time, to engage in consumer-unfriendly purchases; as that is the way the world is set up, currently.

For example, we are forced to overpay due to price-fixing privatised monopolies, or for pretty much any product based around collecting items; where you are, typically, forced to buy blind, in the hope you get the item(s) you want.

Just because people buy something, doesn't mean they can't then have an opinion on the way it was sold.

In fact, the frequent buyers of these crates are the ones who will know what is wrong with their purchases more than most.

WiseSky

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Consumer Friendly Groceries shopping

When I go shopping for groceries I bring a List of groceries totaling 100$

But I bring 1000$ and visit 10 groceries stores and I give the manager 100$ and tell him to get me 100$ worth of groceries, when he asks which... I say randomize it.

Then I pick up all the groceries from the 10 stores and 8 times out of 10 I get all the Items I needed on my List.

Quite Consumer friendly since I don't even need to shop, think of the time you will save.

Tigerseye

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Donny_Vito wrote: »

What do you mean by consumer friendly? Such a vague term. This poll seems skewed towards one answer.

Won't somebody think of the corporations?

Tigerseye

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Royaji wrote: »

Also, here is a question none of the anti-crown crates guys has given me an answer to yet.

If ZOS were to put all of the items from the crates into the store for direct purchase but priced them at what they would cost through crates (about 100$ for tier 1 reward, 400$ for an apex, 1500$ for a radiant) would you stop complaining or would you blame ZOS for their predatory pricing model?

Are you including (or deducting) all the other rewards and gem refunds people currently get, in that price guesstimate?

Or is it just what you would have to spend on crates, on average, to get those rewards; ignoring all the other rewards and gems you would acquire along the way?

In which case, the prices you have given are significantly higher than they would, presumably, have to be.

Obviously, if it is the former, of course people would still complain, because these items would (in any reasonable person's opinion) be hideously overpriced for what they are.

I mean, really, how long does it take to reskin a mount, or even to design a new one?

What is stopping them making a nice big department store of items, which are always available for people to buy, at reasonable prices, that then sell on their own merits?

As other people have pointed out, these are not even physical products - with a material cost, a shipping cost, a storage cost, or a need to be restocked.

They have the initial design cost and the cost of making and sticking a pic of them, on the Crown Store, and that is it.

I get that they may help finance other parts of the game, so they will inevitably be priced a little higher than they might otherwise be, but there are still limits.

Thevampirenight

Compared to Cryptic mmos far more consumer friendly then those boxes. At least you can direct purchase most of the items you want. Plus convert items you don't want into crown gems which is how you buy those items.

idk

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Are crown crates consumer friendly. Considering they obviously sell some do think they are fine. If enough players did not like them and as such did not support them we would not have them.

So in the end, everyone that answered no should be players who do not buy crates like myself. Otherwise it seems rather hypocritical.

Rubbish.

It's not a case of how many they sell, or even whether some people like them, or not.

Neither defines whether something is consumer-friendly, or not.

Some people, who bought them, could have just been curious and others may have compulsive gambling problems and so, can't not buy them.

Then others still may buy the crates occasionally, because they have no other choice, if they want certain items.

None of those options mean the people concerned can't still feel they are consumer-unfriendly, despite having bought them.

Having an opinion on feeling forced to buy products a certain way is not "hypocritical".

...and in fact, we are forced, all the time, to engage in consumer-unfriendly purchases; as that is the way the world is set up, currently.

For example, we are forced to overpay due to price-fixing privatised monopolies, or for pretty much any product based around collecting items; where you are, typically, forced to buy blind, in the hope you get the item(s) you want.

Just because people buy something, doesn't mean they can't then have an opinion on the way it was sold.

In fact, the frequent buyers of these crates are the ones who will know what is wrong with their purchases more than most.

I am sure people have bought them for various reasons as you have stated and I would certainly not argue with that. I am sure some are due to the addictive type of personality you point out with compulsive gambling, but some have bought the crates because they wanted the items they could get in them.

So in fact, we are not forced to buy anything. It is a choice. Granted, the person that has self control issues or addictive issues struggles with self control and as such is more challenged making good choices, but it is still a choice nonetheless. Heck, treatments for addictive behavior are designed to help the person make the choice every day to say no to what they are addicted do so that supports what I said.

My comment was not on the merits of the crates, just the fact of business and pointed out many complain about buying crates after the fact. While some have complained about addiction (for which I hope they actually do seek help) most are just complaining because they do not like the system.

So we have both expressed out opinions. Great and I respect you have your opinion. In the end I do something about mine, I do not support crates and do not buy them.

Salix_alba

Donny_Vito wrote: »

What do you mean by consumer friendly? Such a vague term. This poll seems skewed towards one answer.

I'd say it was more of a loaded question then again many of them are intended to ask more than they seem

Tigerseye

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Royaji wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Also, here is a question none of the anti-crown crates guys has given me an answer to yet.

If ZOS were to put all of the items from the crates into the store for direct purchase but priced them at what they would cost through crates (about 100$ for tier 1 reward, 400$ for an apex, 1500$ for a radiant) would you stop complaining or would you blame ZOS for their predatory pricing model?

Pricing it through crates worth just pulls over the problems already existing with it and ones that I already disagree with in the crownstore.

(snip)

Cool. Let's try another one. What if ZOS removed all items from the Crown Store, put them all into Crates but Crates were one cent a pop and there were twenty items in every one of them?

Are the Crates still a "predatory mechanic that targets gambling addicts" or are they fine now because you can get all the items you want for cheap?

Silly question, considering that almost no one is going to go broke, or end up (literally) crying, on a Youtube vid, if they lose a few cents...

Gambling for matchsticks isn't normally a problem, either.

Unless it leads to other things.

Thevampirenight

Though the pricing is kinda meh they would be better at 200 crowns each. Buying 5000 crowns worth actually can get you quite a bit of crown gems. Plus sometimes unlock the items you want to get. Other then the very high tier tier mounts which are not as important to me. Sometimes one can get unlocked. I'd say they have tried to balance it out. The entire purpose of the crown gems system is to get the items you do want. While having excluses that can only be unlocked by rng. So they mixed in the worst qualities with the best qualities. You can see that in how the system works.
So I do think they put a lot of work into balancing it out.

I think the way they have it even if they banned the pure gamble. They could modify the highest tier rewards to also be bought from crown gems as well. So even though it does cost money you would basically be able to unlock most all of whats in there and convert the trash aka potions and other stuff like that.

If you think this is bad you clearly have not seen the lockbox mechanics in cryptic mmos >.< Esos system is 100% better then Cryptics lock box system.

Tigerseye

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Kahnak wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

What do you mean by consumer friendly? Such a vague term. This poll seems skewed towards one answer.

It is skewed towards one answer.

Items that are consumer friendly do not have to be made for direct purchase and things that are made for direct purchase do not have to necessarily be consumer friendly. They are mutually exclusive.

The question isn't whether the items are consumer-friendly.

The question is whether the manner in which they are sold is, or not.

Dusk_Coven

Different people like different things.
With gambling, some people are paying money to experience the risk-thrill of gambling, not the actual winning at gambling.

It's less important whether Crown Crates are consumer friendly but more important whether there are people in the game who are problem gamblers and are circumventing the mental health checks that exist at a real casino.

huntgod_ESO

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Royaji wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Also, here is a question none of the anti-crown crates guys has given me an answer to yet.

If ZOS were to put all of the items from the crates into the store for direct purchase but priced them at what they would cost through crates (about 100$ for tier 1 reward, 400$ for an apex, 1500$ for a radiant) would you stop complaining or would you blame ZOS for their predatory pricing model?

Pricing it through crates worth just pulls over the problems already existing with it and ones that I already disagree with in the crownstore.

(snip)

Cool. Let's try another one. What if ZOS removed all items from the Crown Store, put them all into Crates but Crates were one cent a pop and there were twenty items in every one of them?

Are the Crates still a "predatory mechanic that targets gambling addicts" or are they fine now because you can get all the items you want for cheap?

Well that example is ludicrous as the purpose of loot boxes is to generate the maximum revenue, what you are suggesting would never happen. Though toward the end of Marvel Heroes Online, they did do something like this before the game ended and of course it completely devalued everything, which was the point as they were closing the doors on the game.

If they for some odd reason were to do this, it would still be a predatory marketing tactic, but the low cost would ameliorate the level of predation as it would be providing a significant value compared to cost.

Darkenarlol

Yes, Crown Crates are consumer friendly - the system is fine as it is

boxes are fine but ofc haters gonna hate

guys with mental disorders should...you know...get medical help

instead of being the reason why i should get less cosmetic

options for my characters

haelene

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Is this serious? Of course they're not.

Tigerseye

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

haelene wrote: »

Is this serious? Of course they're not.

If you have to ask...

Darkenarlol wrote: »

boxes are fine but ofc haters gonna hate

guys with mental disorders should...you know...get medical help

instead of being the reason why i should get less cosmetic

options for my characters

No one wants options removed - in fact, most of us want far more options provided than currently are.

It's just a question of how those options are sold.

I buy Crates, very occasionally, but they are really not the best option unless you have very wide ranging tastes and/or just happen to like almost everything in a certain season.

Which is pretty rare.

rpa

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

Selling a virtual bag with a possibility of containing a virtual pig is only possible because gambling regulators are slowpokes.

Slimebrow

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

I don't see how they are consumer friendly. IMO majority of the stuff in those crates should be given to players as rewards for doing achievements or dungeons and for playing the actual game. If they stripped away the gems and the crates and left the people to decide what they want to buy or not it would at least be the step in the right direction.

Like I can understand people who have a gambling issues but they could have just done like a in game cards game and spend in game gold or something that didn't require people to spend actual cash for it. Using gambling addiction to justify why crown crates should be in game is not a good sign.

vestahls

Yes, Crown Crates are consumer friendly - the system is fine as it is

Crown Crates are perfectly fine. They help fund the game, and if you don't want to buy them you simply don't.

TelvanniWizard

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

vestahls wrote: »

Crown Crates are perfectly fine. They help fund the game, and if you don't want to buy them you simply don't.

You know how could they also fund the game? With a permanent crown store, containing every item released to the date, for a fixed price.

barney2525

Yes, Crown Crates are consumer friendly - the system is fine as it is

Is this the topic of the month? We gotta see 15 of the same thread ?

OK I'll bite

How Many items can you buy for 5000 crowns ?
compare with
How many items can you get in 15 crown crates - which costs 5000 crowns ?

additionally, you can make a lot of gems in 15 crates as well, and go through and Pick specific items that you were not 'lucky' enough to obtain through the RNG.

IF you WANT to spend LOTS of REAL money - get rid of the crown crates and make every item Ala Carte

IF you Want the BEST VALUE for your money - keep the crown crates

IMHO

Slimebrow

No, Crown Crates are Not consumer friendly - items should be made available for direct purchase

barney2525 wrote: »

Is this the topic of the month? We gotta see 15 of the same thread ?

OK I'll bite

How Many items can you buy for 5000 crowns ?
compare with
How many items can you get in 15 crown crates - which costs 5000 crowns ?

additionally, you can make a lot of gems in 15 crates as well, and go through and Pick specific items that you were not 'lucky' enough to obtain through the RNG.

IF you WANT to spend LOTS of REAL money - get rid of the crown crates and make every item Ala Carte

IF you Want the BEST VALUE for your money - keep the crown crates

IMHO

Or they just you know.... reasonably price them?

Iccotak

Darkenarlol wrote: »

boxes are fine but ofc haters gonna hate

guys with mental disorders should...you know...get medical help

instead of being the reason why i should get less cosmetic

options for my characters

Wouldn't you be able to get more cosmetics if you could just outright buy them?
Rather than a box that is mostly full of consumables (potions, food, poisons, etc)