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Concerns about vampire changes, share yours.

  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
    TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    Leogon wrote: »
    ZOS f'ing with the lore is my biggest concern. Lord Harkon is the first Vampire Lord, a power given to him by Molag Bal. Lord Harkon is the first of his bloodline so if Vampire Lord is the new ultimate, I'm gonna be disappointed.

    The thing is we were led to believe the LDB not only defeated the First Dragon, the First Dragonborn but also the First Vampire Lord, you see Harkon had enough power that you needed a god weapon to break his shield and not one single mention of that form had existed in any form of TES media prior, not to mention he sacrificed 1000 souls for that power to be bestowed upon him and his family, if all pureblooded Vampires had that form then why even bother with the sacrifices? just have Valerica or Serana turn him, the fact is this massively diminishes Lord Harkon's importance as a villain and therefor diminishes what the LDB had achieved, hell if the mask of Alkosh and it's obvious attempt at being Dragon Aspect wasn't bad enough.

    The Lore presented in Numbered Titles made by Bethesda should take priority over the Lore presented in a Spin-Off so if ESO contradicts something from Skyrim, since Skyrim is actually a main game of the series it's lore should take priority and the contradiction made should be ignored, if the Spin-Off presents something that does not cause a contradiction then by all means accept it.

    That is possibly because he was a first gen vampire of his own blood line while his wife and daughter also had the same strain so all three had it. But Harkon is likely the source of all the weak blooded vampires existing because he turned vampires that turned more vampires that made more vampires till the blood line started thinning out.

    So for each one out there the more powerful he might be in his vampire lord form. In Lamaes Quest it is told by the one vampire that Each vampire that has her blood line makes her more stronger as a vampire for each vampire that exists. Given her strain is the most common all over Tamriel In the Eso time period. This could mean she could be much more powerful then Harkon. Thus could possibly grant abilties like vampire lord if she wanted too. So its possible that Lamae is far more powerful then we think she is. Maybe demiprince or higher maybe. given her goal is to Destroy Molag Bal and consume Arkay. It would make sense for her to be even more powerful and powerful enough to actually grant actual power like the Vampire Lord form.

    Her goal is to destroy Molag Bal, my goal is too be a billionaire but both goals are pretty much impossible to achieve.

    Having a goal to destroy an Immortal God does not make you powerful, it just makes you a delusional idiot like Mannimarco, if anything she would charge in there and 10 seconds later..SPLAT!! she is now even deader.
    Edited by TX12001rwb17_ESO on February 3, 2020 12:13PM
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    Leogon wrote: »
    ZOS f'ing with the lore is my biggest concern. Lord Harkon is the first Vampire Lord, a power given to him by Molag Bal. Lord Harkon is the first of his bloodline so if Vampire Lord is the new ultimate, I'm gonna be disappointed.

    The thing is we were led to believe the LDB not only defeated the First Dragon, the First Dragonborn but also the First Vampire Lord, you see Harkon had enough power that you needed a god weapon to break his shield and not one single mention of that form had existed in any form of TES media prior, not to mention he sacrificed 1000 souls for that power to be bestowed upon him and his family, if all pureblooded Vampires had that form then why even bother with the sacrifices? just have Valerica or Serana turn him, the fact is this massively diminishes Lord Harkon's importance as a villain and therefor diminishes what the LDB had achieved, hell if the mask of Alkosh and it's obvious attempt at being Dragon Aspect wasn't bad enough.

    The Lore presented in Numbered Titles made by Bethesda should take priority over the Lore presented in a Spin-Off so if ESO contradicts something from Skyrim, since Skyrim is actually a main game of the series it's lore should take priority and the contradiction made should be ignored, if the Spin-Off presents something that does not cause a contradiction then by all means accept it.

    That is possibly because he was a first gen vampire of his own blood line while his wife and daughter also had the same strain so all three had it. But Harkon is likely the source of all the weak blooded vampires existing because he turned vampires that turned more vampires that made more vampires till the blood line started thinning out.

    So for each one out there the more powerful he might be in his vampire lord form. In Lamaes Quest it is told by the one vampire that Each vampire that has her blood line makes her more stronger as a vampire for each vampire that exists. Given her strain is the most common all over Tamriel In the Eso time period. This could mean she could be much more powerful then Harkon. Thus could possibly grant abilties like vampire lord if she wanted too. So its possible that Lamae is far more powerful then we think she is. Maybe demiprince or higher maybe. given her goal is to Destroy Molag Bal and consume Arkay. It would make sense for her to be even more powerful and powerful enough to actually grant actual power like the Vampire Lord form.

    Her goal is to destroy Molag Bal, my goal is too be a billionaire but both goals are pretty much impossible to achieve.

    Having a goal to destroy an Immortal God does not make you powerful, it just makes you a delusional idiot like Mannimarco, if anything she would charge in there and 10 seconds later..SPLAT!! she is now even deader.

    Not if she was augmented like the Vestige was. The werewolf Lord the first werewolf or werewolf had a similar goal of turning everyone possible and then going into the hunting grounds with her pack and destroying Hircine. Which I think if she had gotten the power and turned everyone into a werewolf. Well Hircine wouldn't able to stand against such power. This is because of the power augmentation effect. With Lamae bal she has pure molag bal blood within her. The first werewolf who also had the blood of Hircine within her. Lamae for every vampire of her bloodline. She grows more powerful. For every werewolf under the first werewolves control she also grows more powerful.

    This is all hypoethetical but going off math. It isn't accurate in any way but just an example here.
    In game Molag Bal has 6,394,821 Health.
    Say there is 20 million people living in Tamriel. Now 50,000 of those are vampires while 45000 of them are of Lamaes blood line. Now each vampire of her own blood line or part of it augments her 50 times her current power and default without any vampires would be like 50 heath points but for every vampire she has she gets x50. Okay going by that type of basis if you times the number of vampires by the number of fifty you would get 2250000, Molag Bals health minus Lamaes 2250000 is 4144821. Now say there is 95000 vampires of Lamae Bals Strain and Times it by 50, this would mean Lamae Bal would be 4750000. Now Subtracting that against Molag Bals Health. That would be a 1694821 difference but she isn't quite there yet.

    Now if you add on her having 115000 Vampires. Times that by 50 and you get 5750000. Now that would make make Molag Bal 694821 stronger. Now if you add that number of vampires to 150000 now where she has that many of them and Lamae is made 50 x stronger for each one of them. Going by strength based on Health. She would have 7500000 health. Would now be towering over Molag Bal. She would be stronger then him by 1105179 health points. So yes she might need a lot of vampires. But if is made 50 times stronger for each one and augmented. Having enough of them and she could literally have a chance against Molag Bal. Having enough Empowerment to actually destroy him. Now this is just hypothetical. But its just an example of the type of Empowerment that might happen with Lamae Bal to make her stronger. Per each vampire of her blood line.

    Here is the exact dialog for you to see for yourself that the npc tells you in the vampire quest. Bolded down below.
    Rahaja
    Tell me about Mother Lamae?
    "In life, she was a young and beautiful Nedic priest. To spite Arkay, Molag Bal corrupted her and left her in a death-like state. Upon waking, she was overcome with a savage hunger.
    The nomads who found her body would become her first feast."
    How did the other vampires come about?
    "Over the ages she found that when others fed from her, rather than becoming weaker, she grew still more powerful. And as her blood flowed within an ever growing number of children, so her strength multiplied."


    Now you can see for each person that has her blood. The stronger she gets. Have enough of them and she grows ever more stronger. Now using the hypothetical example if she had the number of vampires like 150000 she might have enough power to destroy Molag Bal. Of course a aedric trinket filled with the souls and the power of many of the previous dragonborns out there was enough for the vestige to take him on. Now having Molag Bals own blood in you an growing stronger instead of him for every vampire you have under neigh you. That could grow to be a lot of vampiric power gathered up for the one that has the purest form of the condition.

    A power that can be used against him and if Lamae had enough vampires she could totally do it but she would need a lot of vampires. Which is something she likely doesn't have so she would need a lot more of them. Given vampires don't age she can take her sweet time with it. Its an end game goal and likely one she has planned for centuries in the making. Could she one day past the time of the Last dragonborn grow enough power to actually destroy Molag Bal possibly. But I doubt she will ever be able to accomplish it but I do think its possible she can actually do it.

    Maybe after the Vestige did it before her maybe she decided to abandon it or maybe that isn't her plan at all and she just wants to do it.. Who knows but if she really set her mind to it and worked on it carefully she might be able to pull it off. Because if she was able to gather enough power and use it wisely for that end game goal I think it could work out and actually be successful. But only for a short time frame. Even if she defeated Molag bal he would likely return anyways. Unless she found a way to bind him and prevent him from ever coming back and that is another issue that she would have to work around. So even if she could pull it off she wouldn't be able to likely keep him dead. Over time she would lose power as her vampire's start to die off and that would make her more vulnerable. She would have avenged herself but it would be more a fleeting revenge since you can't really kill a Daedric prince since they will always return and as such Molag Bal himself will reform in the Void.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on February 3, 2020 2:39PM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Noxavian
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    Leogon wrote: »
    ZOS f'ing with the lore is my biggest concern. Lord Harkon is the first Vampire Lord, a power given to him by Molag Bal. Lord Harkon is the first of his bloodline so if Vampire Lord is the new ultimate, I'm gonna be disappointed.

    The thing is we were led to believe the LDB not only defeated the First Dragon, the First Dragonborn but also the First Vampire Lord, you see Harkon had enough power that you needed a god weapon to break his shield and not one single mention of that form had existed in any form of TES media prior, not to mention he sacrificed 1000 souls for that power to be bestowed upon him and his family, if all pureblooded Vampires had that form then why even bother with the sacrifices? just have Valerica or Serana turn him, the fact is this massively diminishes Lord Harkon's importance as a villain and therefor diminishes what the LDB had achieved, hell if the mask of Alkosh and it's obvious attempt at being Dragon Aspect wasn't bad enough.

    The Lore presented in Numbered Titles made by Bethesda should take priority over the Lore presented in a Spin-Off so if ESO contradicts something from Skyrim, since Skyrim is actually a main game of the series it's lore should take priority and the contradiction made should be ignored, if the Spin-Off presents something that does not cause a contradiction then by all means accept it.

    That is possibly because he was a first gen vampire of his own blood line while his wife and daughter also had the same strain so all three had it. But Harkon is likely the source of all the weak blooded vampires existing because he turned vampires that turned more vampires that made more vampires till the blood line started thinning out.

    So for each one out there the more powerful he might be in his vampire lord form. In Lamaes Quest it is told by the one vampire that Each vampire that has her blood line makes her more stronger as a vampire for each vampire that exists. Given her strain is the most common all over Tamriel In the Eso time period. This could mean she could be much more powerful then Harkon. Thus could possibly grant abilties like vampire lord if she wanted too. So its possible that Lamae is far more powerful then we think she is. Maybe demiprince or higher maybe. given her goal is to Destroy Molag Bal and consume Arkay. It would make sense for her to be even more powerful and powerful enough to actually grant actual power like the Vampire Lord form.

    Yeah, I believe there's a major disconnect here when speaking with the lore-"""experts""". Seemingly a surprising amount of them don't get that Lamae is literally THE STRONGEST vampire. She is the first vampire, the blood matron. Harkon's goal was to just block out the sun using an artifact, where as her goal is literally destroying a daedric prince and consuming another. That uh....seems to be pretty different on the power-scale, I think.

    I'd actually argue she's very close to almost-daedric prince level of power herself. If she were to succeed in destroying Molag bal and Arkay, then she'd be up there with the likes of Talos. Which makes lord Harkon seem like an ant in comparison.
  • ShadowHvo
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    This is frankly a ludicrous debate, for the sole reason that we never see Lamae Bal do anything of note worthy value.

    Just because you're the first vampire does not mean that you're automatically the strongest. Sure, she may have the most potent of her bloodline considering she is a Daughter of Coldharbour, however, her strain is seperate from that of Valerica, Serana, whom both are Daughters of Coldharbour, yet with another strain of vampirism entirely.

    Certainly, logical conclusion claims that Purebloods are stronger than their children, and thus their children to their own. But its two different strains entirely, each gifted/cursed by Molag Bal himself.

    Her goals mean nothing when she cannot achieve them, and we know for a fact that she hasn't done *** for 4 eras, because otherwise we would've logically heard of it, and we see Molag Bal thriving in the 4th era, and not to mention Arkay untouched... So yeah.

    If anything, Lamae Bal is a coward and a disgraceful brethren who does nothing but sit in her dungeon and play pretend. At least Harkon almost succeeded in his goal, where Lamae isn't even getting remotely close, because her goals are ludicrous.

    A delusional character can be a good one, and I can understand her motivation on a character-level. But let us not jest ourselves for real and actually believe that she is capable of what she claims, because we know that she isn't.
    Nighren - The Shadow Striker
    Leader of Bloodlines
    -- EU --


    Want to roleplay in elder scrolls online? Check out eso-rp.com
  • SpacemanSpiff1
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    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    Im not looking forward to feeding 17 Vampires. Im glad the skill line was reworked but feeding before content runs is going to be time consuming or expensive. I guess we'll see where this goes.

    same. just more micromanagement. we'll see how everything pans out i guess.
  • Noxavian
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    ShadowHvo wrote: »
    This is frankly a ludicrous debate, for the sole reason that we never see Lamae Bal do anything of note worthy value.

    Just because you're the first vampire does not mean that you're automatically the strongest. Sure, she may have the most potent of her bloodline considering she is a Daughter of Coldharbour, however, her strain is seperate from that of Valerica, Serana, whom both are Daughters of Coldharbour, yet with another strain of vampirism entirely.

    Certainly, logical conclusion claims that Purebloods are stronger than their children, and thus their children to their own. But its two different strains entirely, each gifted/cursed by Molag Bal himself.

    Her goals mean nothing when she cannot achieve them, and we know for a fact that she hasn't done *** for 4 eras, because otherwise we would've logically heard of it, and we see Molag Bal thriving in the 4th era, and not to mention Arkay untouched... So yeah.

    If anything, Lamae Bal is a coward and a disgraceful brethren who does nothing but sit in her dungeon and play pretend. At least Harkon almost succeeded in his goal, where Lamae isn't even getting remotely close, because her goals are ludicrous.

    A delusional character can be a good one, and I can understand her motivation on a character-level. But let us not jest ourselves for real and actually believe that she is capable of what she claims, because we know that she isn't.

    How do you know she isn't? You literally have nothing to back up us knowing whether or not what she's capable of.
  • Maxx7410
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    How do we protect ourselfs from hiv infection? !!!!!

    no sun damage please!
    Edited by Maxx7410 on February 3, 2020 10:39PM
  • Unseelie
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    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    Im not looking forward to feeding 17 Vampires. Im glad the skill line was reworked but feeding before content runs is going to be time consuming or expensive. I guess we'll see where this goes.

    Why would you have to feed 17 Vampires? Do you play them all at the same time?
  • LittlePinkDot
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    Leogon wrote: »
    ZOS f'ing with the lore is my biggest concern. Lord Harkon is the first Vampire Lord, a power given to him by Molag Bal. Lord Harkon is the first of his bloodline so if Vampire Lord is the new ultimate, I'm gonna be disappointed.

    The thing is we were led to believe the LDB not only defeated the First Dragon, the First Dragonborn but also the First Vampire Lord, you see Harkon had enough power that you needed a god weapon to break his shield and not one single mention of that form had existed in any form of TES media prior, not to mention he sacrificed 1000 souls for that power to be bestowed upon him and his family, if all pureblooded Vampires had that form then why even bother with the sacrifices? just have Valerica or Serana turn him, the fact is this massively diminishes Lord Harkon's importance as a villain and therefor diminishes what the LDB had achieved, hell if the mask of Alkosh and it's obvious attempt at being Dragon Aspect wasn't bad enough.

    The Lore presented in Numbered Titles made by Bethesda should take priority over the Lore presented in a Spin-Off so if ESO contradicts something from Skyrim, since Skyrim is actually a main game of the series it's lore should take priority and the contradiction made should be ignored, if the Spin-Off presents something that does not cause a contradiction then by all means accept it.

    That is possibly because he was a first gen vampire of his own blood line while his wife and daughter also had the same strain so all three had it. But Harkon is likely the source of all the weak blooded vampires existing because he turned vampires that turned more vampires that made more vampires till the blood line started thinning out.

    So for each one out there the more powerful he might be in his vampire lord form. In Lamaes Quest it is told by the one vampire that Each vampire that has her blood line makes her more stronger as a vampire for each vampire that exists. Given her strain is the most common all over Tamriel In the Eso time period. This could mean she could be much more powerful then Harkon. Thus could possibly grant abilties like vampire lord if she wanted too. So its possible that Lamae is far more powerful then we think she is. Maybe demiprince or higher maybe. given her goal is to Destroy Molag Bal and consume Arkay. It would make sense for her to be even more powerful and powerful enough to actually grant actual power like the Vampire Lord form.

    So do all strains originally come from Molag Bal rap!ng somebody?
  • Thevampirenight
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    I would use the term Ravaged Litttle Pink Dot since they do have rules against bypassing the filters. Some or many yes might come from Molag Bal ravaging someone. But not all strains some might be created by another alteration from another prince that could Alter a group of already existing vampires and thus cause a new variant strain to be born. Also there was that one quest that introduced one created by Alchemy so I would say no not all would be created that way. But I think several strains might be.

    Its messed up but that is what Molag Bal is. Then there is hints that Sangiin might take the place of Molag Bal in the Khajiiti religion when it comes to vampires.
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Worldly_Spirits

    So do all strains come about the same way I would say no. Is all the origin points for them Molag Bal. Most likely not but many of them are from Molag Bal. So he would be the most common source possibly for the condition. But that doesn't mean there isn't other sources since lore says there are. Unlike Lycanthropy that are always connected to Hircine in one form or another.

    Edited by Thevampirenight on February 4, 2020 12:26AM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • ShadowHvo
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    Noxavian wrote: »

    How do you know she isn't? You literally have nothing to back up us knowing whether or not what she's capable of.

    You literally don't have anything to back it up. I responded to the baseless theory.

    There is nothing in her character that remotely suggests that she contains such great power, no less power that makes her on-par and even capable of usurping a Daedric Prince.

    Claiming that she is, is unjustly founded, because there is nothing in universe or lore that suggests yours and thevampirenight's claims.

    She's a pure-blooded Vampire, not a demi-god. Hell, judging by the effort in display, I'll claim that from what we have seen of the character, Mannimarco had a better, and far stronger shot at usurping a Daedric Prince, yet we all know how that went.

    Had the theory involved usupring a mortal King, sure, most definitely. A powerful vampire can do a lot, in particular one who can mask themselves amongst civil society. But that's a gigantic leap from killing, or otherwise usurping literal godly entities with vast domains of rule with seemingly limitless potential.

    I'll buy into your theory IF we ever get anything from Lamae that shows her as above and beyond all other pure-blooded vampires, but until then, I'll most certainly think of her as precisely what she is.
    Nighren - The Shadow Striker
    Leader of Bloodlines
    -- EU --


    Want to roleplay in elder scrolls online? Check out eso-rp.com
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
    TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    Noxavian wrote: »
    ShadowHvo wrote: »
    This is frankly a ludicrous debate, for the sole reason that we never see Lamae Bal do anything of note worthy value.

    Just because you're the first vampire does not mean that you're automatically the strongest. Sure, she may have the most potent of her bloodline considering she is a Daughter of Coldharbour, however, her strain is seperate from that of Valerica, Serana, whom both are Daughters of Coldharbour, yet with another strain of vampirism entirely.

    Certainly, logical conclusion claims that Purebloods are stronger than their children, and thus their children to their own. But its two different strains entirely, each gifted/cursed by Molag Bal himself.

    Her goals mean nothing when she cannot achieve them, and we know for a fact that she hasn't done *** for 4 eras, because otherwise we would've logically heard of it, and we see Molag Bal thriving in the 4th era, and not to mention Arkay untouched... So yeah.

    If anything, Lamae Bal is a coward and a disgraceful brethren who does nothing but sit in her dungeon and play pretend. At least Harkon almost succeeded in his goal, where Lamae isn't even getting remotely close, because her goals are ludicrous.

    A delusional character can be a good one, and I can understand her motivation on a character-level. But let us not jest ourselves for real and actually believe that she is capable of what she claims, because we know that she isn't.

    How do you know she isn't? You literally have nothing to back up us knowing whether or not what she's capable of.

    Because she is just a Vampire who can be killed, Molag Bal is an immortal God who cannot be killed, does the fact he is an immortal God escape you? how do you kill a 100% Immortal Daedric Prince?
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    ShadowHvo wrote: »
    Noxavian wrote: »

    How do you know she isn't? You literally have nothing to back up us knowing whether or not what she's capable of.

    You literally don't have anything to back it up. I responded to the baseless theory.

    There is nothing in her character that remotely suggests that she contains such great power, no less power that makes her on-par and even capable of usurping a Daedric Prince.

    Claiming that she is, is unjustly founded, because there is nothing in universe or lore that suggests yours and thevampirenight's claims.

    She's a pure-blooded Vampire, not a demi-god. Hell, judging by the effort in display, I'll claim that from what we have seen of the character, Mannimarco had a better, and far stronger shot at usurping a Daedric Prince, yet we all know how that went.

    Had the theory involved usupring a mortal King, sure, most definitely. A powerful vampire can do a lot, in particular one who can mask themselves amongst civil society. But that's a gigantic leap from killing, or otherwise usurping literal godly entities with vast domains of rule with seemingly limitless potential.

    I'll buy into your theory IF we ever get anything from Lamae that shows her as above and beyond all other pure-blooded vampires, but until then, I'll most certainly think of her as precisely what she is.

    Two of Three Power Stealing Demigods that are called the living gods of Morrowind were enough to do what Martin did to Dagon at the end of the third era. It goes to show that mortals if they have enough power can really hurt daedric princes. Just like the Vestige was able to do to Molag Bal and I might add in his own Daedric realm. If Almalexia and Sotha Sil can do it, Martin as the Avatar of Akatosh could do it and the Vestige could do it. It is 100% Possible for Lamae to do it given she gets more strength for each vampire of her blood line. It would make sense that she would be able to get Demigod like power and if having enough vampire under her maybe the strength of the two living gods of Morrowind.

    Plus there is another factor she might have actual worshipers that worship her as the mother of all vampires or the first vampire and there are blood lines that claim she turned them directly or they come from her even if they might not come from her so they worship her as the Mother of Vampires. That along with getting stronger for every vampire out there. Could be the juice she could need to pull it off. So to Vampires she could be like a Unliving god figure. The three demigods were able to hold onto their power by worship though they became a lot weaker over time and they had to use their energies to keep the ghost fence up. The worship did help them and that was why figures claiming to be the elder scrolls three hero aka False Nerevarine's were persecuted so they could keep up the faith hamsters spinning their wheels so they could hold up the Ghost Fence.

    Vivec knew that the Elder scrolls three hero the True Nerevarine couldn't be stopped that is how he would know he/she would the true one. The sermons were meant for that hero from what I'm understanding. So even though he had his temple persecute those going against the faith and having the Nerevarine prophecy hidden or persecuting those that believe in it he was able to hold on longer. So he allowed and commanded such evil acts for the greater good as he knew the ghost fence must hold and he was waiting for the True Nerevarine to show up to deal with it. As he knew that was the only way to stop Dagoth Ur.

    I brought up this up because well it ties into the kind of power worship might bring even demigods. Just like worship of the draugr can bring back dragon priests as a kind of lich. So its the same principle worship grants power. Have enough of it and well they can grow more powerful.

    So plus growing stronger for each vampire of her blood line plus actual vampire worship and even those not of her bloodline worshiping her could help her along with her ultimate intended goal.

    Edited by Thevampirenight on February 4, 2020 1:12AM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
    TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    ShadowHvo wrote: »
    Noxavian wrote: »

    How do you know she isn't? You literally have nothing to back up us knowing whether or not what she's capable of.

    You literally don't have anything to back it up. I responded to the baseless theory.

    There is nothing in her character that remotely suggests that she contains such great power, no less power that makes her on-par and even capable of usurping a Daedric Prince.

    Claiming that she is, is unjustly founded, because there is nothing in universe or lore that suggests yours and thevampirenight's claims.

    She's a pure-blooded Vampire, not a demi-god. Hell, judging by the effort in display, I'll claim that from what we have seen of the character, Mannimarco had a better, and far stronger shot at usurping a Daedric Prince, yet we all know how that went.

    Had the theory involved usupring a mortal King, sure, most definitely. A powerful vampire can do a lot, in particular one who can mask themselves amongst civil society. But that's a gigantic leap from killing, or otherwise usurping literal godly entities with vast domains of rule with seemingly limitless potential.

    I'll buy into your theory IF we ever get anything from Lamae that shows her as above and beyond all other pure-blooded vampires, but until then, I'll most certainly think of her as precisely what she is.

    Two of Three Power Stealing Demigods that are called the living gods of Morrowind were enough to do what Martin did to Dagon at the end of the third era. It goes to show that mortals if they have enough power can really hurt daedric princes. Just like the Vestige was able to do to Molag Bal and I might add in his own Daedric realm. If Almalexia and Sotha Sil can do it, Martin as the Avatar of Akatosh could do it and the Vestige could do it. It is 100% Possible for Lamae to do it given she gets more strength for each vampire of her blood line. It would make sense that she would be able to get Demigod like power and if having enough vampire under her maybe the strength of the two living gods of Morrowind.

    Plus there is another factor she might have actual worshipers that worship her as the mother of all vampires or the first vampire and there are blood lines that claim she turned them directly or they come from her even if they might not come from her so they worship her as the Mother of Vampires. That along with getting stronger for every vampire out there. Could be the juice she could need to pull it off. So to Vampires she could be like a Unliving god figure. The three demigods were able to hold onto their power by worship though they became a lot weaker over time and they had to use their energies to keep the ghost fence up. The worship did help them and that was why figures claiming to be the elder scrolls three hero aka False nerevarine's were persecuted so they could keep up the faith hamsters spinning their wheels so they could hold up the Ghost Fence.

    Vivec knew that the Elder scrolls three hero the True Nerevarine couldn't be stopped that is how he would know he/she would the true one. The sermons were meant for that hero from what I'm understanding. So even though he had his temple persecute those going against the faith and having the Nerevarine prophecy hidden or persecuting those that believe in it he was able to hold on longer. So he allowed and commanded such evil acts for the greater good as he knew the ghost fence must hold and he was waiting for the True Nerevarine to show up to deal with it As he knew that was the only way to stop Dagoth Ur.
    I bring this up because well it ties into the kind of power worship might bring even demigods. Just like worship of the draugr can bring back dragon priests as a kind of lich. So its the same principle worship grants power. Have enough of it and well they can grow more powerful.

    So plus growing stronger for each vampire of her blood line plus actual vampire worship and even those not of her bloodline worshiping her could help her along with her ultimate intended goal.

    Those 3 living Gods took Divine Power from the Heart of Lorkhan so they actually had real God Power, that is how they managed to beat Mehrunes Dagon when he attacked Mournhold, Lamae Bal on the otherhand is just a pureblooded Vampire.

    And even if she were a Vampire Lord she would still be 100% the same as Serana who is also a daughter of coldharbour turned directly by Molag Bal, there is nothing she could do that she couldn't, infact did it occur the reason for Lamae Bal getting "Stronger" is because she simply has control over her bloodline like most Vampires in fiction and her blood is literally within her clan members via their little ritual?

    Her power would fall under "Powerful because you have an Army you can control through blood to back you up" not powerful as in you are a one man army like the LDB for instance.
    Edited by TX12001rwb17_ESO on February 4, 2020 1:07AM
  • Finedaible
    Finedaible
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    I'm only concerned it will be an excuse to nerf all the fun out of vampires like everything else they touch. I really hope there aren't more nerfs.
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    ShadowHvo wrote: »
    Noxavian wrote: »

    How do you know she isn't? You literally have nothing to back up us knowing whether or not what she's capable of.

    You literally don't have anything to back it up. I responded to the baseless theory.

    There is nothing in her character that remotely suggests that she contains such great power, no less power that makes her on-par and even capable of usurping a Daedric Prince.

    Claiming that she is, is unjustly founded, because there is nothing in universe or lore that suggests yours and thevampirenight's claims.

    She's a pure-blooded Vampire, not a demi-god. Hell, judging by the effort in display, I'll claim that from what we have seen of the character, Mannimarco had a better, and far stronger shot at usurping a Daedric Prince, yet we all know how that went.

    Had the theory involved usupring a mortal King, sure, most definitely. A powerful vampire can do a lot, in particular one who can mask themselves amongst civil society. But that's a gigantic leap from killing, or otherwise usurping literal godly entities with vast domains of rule with seemingly limitless potential.

    I'll buy into your theory IF we ever get anything from Lamae that shows her as above and beyond all other pure-blooded vampires, but until then, I'll most certainly think of her as precisely what she is.

    Two of Three Power Stealing Demigods that are called the living gods of Morrowind were enough to do what Martin did to Dagon at the end of the third era. It goes to show that mortals if they have enough power can really hurt daedric princes. Just like the Vestige was able to do to Molag Bal and I might add in his own Daedric realm. If Almalexia and Sotha Sil can do it, Martin as the Avatar of Akatosh could do it and the Vestige could do it. It is 100% Possible for Lamae to do it given she gets more strength for each vampire of her blood line. It would make sense that she would be able to get Demigod like power and if having enough vampire under her maybe the strength of the two living gods of Morrowind.

    Plus there is another factor she might have actual worshipers that worship her as the mother of all vampires or the first vampire and there are blood lines that claim she turned them directly or they come from her even if they might not come from her so they worship her as the Mother of Vampires. That along with getting stronger for every vampire out there. Could be the juice she could need to pull it off. So to Vampires she could be like a Unliving god figure. The three demigods were able to hold onto their power by worship though they became a lot weaker over time and they had to use their energies to keep the ghost fence up. The worship did help them and that was why figures claiming to be the elder scrolls three hero aka False nerevarine's were persecuted so they could keep up the faith hamsters spinning their wheels so they could hold up the Ghost Fence.

    Vivec knew that the Elder scrolls three hero the True Nerevarine couldn't be stopped that is how he would know he/she would the true one. The sermons were meant for that hero from what I'm understanding. So even though he had his temple persecute those going against the faith and having the Nerevarine prophecy hidden or persecuting those that believe in it he was able to hold on longer. So he allowed and commanded such evil acts for the greater good as he knew the ghost fence must hold and he was waiting for the True Nerevarine to show up to deal with it As he knew that was the only way to stop Dagoth Ur.
    I bring this up because well it ties into the kind of power worship might bring even demigods. Just like worship of the draugr can bring back dragon priests as a kind of lich. So its the same principle worship grants power. Have enough of it and well they can grow more powerful.

    So plus growing stronger for each vampire of her blood line plus actual vampire worship and even those not of her bloodline worshiping her could help her along with her ultimate intended goal.

    Those 3 living Gods took Divine Power from the Heart of Lorkhan so they actually had real God Power, that is how they managed to beat Mehrunes Dagon when he attacked Mournhold, Lamae Bal on the otherhand is just a pureblooded Vampire.

    And even if she were a Vampire Lord she would still be 100% the same as Serana who is also a daughter of coldharbour turned directly by Molag Bal, there is nothing she could do that she couldn't, infact did it occur the reason for Lamae Bal getting "Stronger" is because she simply has control over her bloodline like most Vampires in fiction and her blood is literally within her clan members via their little ritual?

    Her power would fall under "Powerful because you have an Army you can control through blood to back you up" not powerful as in you are a one man army like the LDB for instance.

    In her case I think she would be both one man army plus having an army behind her. Having the power of both.
    Lamae has the actual blood of Molag Bal in her. Being turned by Molag Bal himself. Now if turning works the way it does then she would be Second gen only to him. Plus we know the Daughters of Coldharbour going by Dawnguard their blood is so potent it can forever end the tyranny of the sun if every drop of their blood is used for it. The daughter of Coldharbours blood is also Molag Bals blood but having the blood of molag bal likely isn't enough. For the sun to be forever blocked out.

    Now Serana was the type of vampire that likely didn't go out of her way to turn others into vampires since her father and mother likely done a lot of that. I think she made a special exception with TLD because she felt a bond with him/her. She doesn't even offer it to members of the Dawnguard just The last dragonborn. Now if she had gone out of the way to turn others into vampires. She might be able to grow as powerful as Lamae.

    Serana could possibly be the weakest of the Daughters for the above reasons but maybe innocent enough for her blood to be most potent of all of them. To gain the power they had of course both her mother and her had to go through the ravaging ritual. We know a daughters blood with just a few drops of it can block out the sun for a day.
    Which is likely the main reason she was so linked to the prophecy and so important to it. But that might not be the only reason because she fills these roles most likely to make sacrificing her potent. Which would make the most sense for a prophecy at least to me.
    Qualities that would likely place her into the potent category.
    Serana was not allowed to have any friend or didn't have any friends from what I got from Dawnguard but not one hundred percent sure. But for sure she had a strict up bringing so she lacked the typical child hood that normal kids went through. So she never really felt how to be really normal and that is why she attached herself to the last Dragonborn. Her desire to be herself as well as maybe having what she never could have since it was technically stolen away from her along with having a true friend plus maybe not having to feed since she isn't seen doing it as if she doesn't need to Harkon and Veranica seem to not need to feed either and Harkon says it something the lesser vampires do. So likely she got spared having to drink it but maybe craves it all the time.Given she might not have to hurt other people and likely doesn't since she possibly was trying to please her family makes her a true victim and likely for a vampire a being that is truely innocent. Since innocence might be the most potent when it comes to Dark Magic. I think that is what it would have to take to block out the sun for good.

    So even though Serana was very strong as we can see in the forgotten vale. We never saw her at her strongest. Had we she would be far more powerful then Harkon and if not cured of Vampirism could even grow more powerful if she choose to turn more vampires. Which I do think the Last Dragonborn if you get it from her would qualify but might not give her much she would have to have more vampires of her blood line to do it.

    Now Lamae is the very opposite of Serana not only was she ravaged but she also sired many vampires and each one makes her stronger. She uses her full potential and likely does everything she can to make sure she is at the peak of power. She would not only be the strongest of the daughters but her influence of being the first allows her more power and prestige. She is the OG. The Original and this gives her prestige among vampires that other daughters if they exist do not enjoy they wouldn't be as likely to be worshiped like Lamae is. Because of this she is leagues above every other vampire.

    Another example here that is not related but similar. The Dark Brotherhood we know they have other Night Mothers sometimes it might a position maybe for those women who open up chapter houses. But they don't compare to the OG the First the reason why the group exists. They are not thee Night Mother they are just shadows that possibly dream of being the Original.

    Without Lamae all other blood lines of vampire likely wouldn't exist. Because they would have no way to know what happened to Lamae and they wouldn't know the concept even existed. Without the story of what happened to Lamae and what happened to Lamae others wound't have gone to Molag Bal. Harkon and his vampiriic family wouldn't exist and thus no Volkihar vampires because he wouldn't have known about Lamae and the stuff she likely went through. He wouldn't have known to go to Molag Bal to get himself a great deal from the Prince to acquire both power and Immortality required Lamae and the story of her creation that inspired it.

    Without Lamae there would no path way for other vampires to exist None what so ever. Just like without the Original Nightmother there would be no Dark Brotherhood. There are possibly many first gen vampires who might feel the envy as even they might have to acknowledge Lamae as the Mother of all vampires because they couldn't exist without her first existing. I think the same deal might apply to Dark Brotherhood Night Mothers they couldn't exist without the first. So the Power of the Original Vampire would be above all other Daughters of Coldharbour because she is the Original the reason why all the others exist. To not acknowledge her and her place in history.

    Would be a tragic mistake and possibly something that many vampires might find blasphemous is vampires that don't acknowledge the dues owed to their existence in the form of Lamae. Though another pure blooded vampire might be responsible for their clan.That pureblooded vampire wouldn't be there without Lamae. So for a vampiric religion I think she would be worshiped as the Mother of All Vampires as no other vampire comes before her not even other pure bloods. So in a way they do all owe Lamae her dues and those dues are given because without her they couldn't exist.

    So she isn't just a vampire lord and Daughter of Coldharbour. She is thee Vampire Lord Daughter of Coldhabour and importantly the Mother of all Vampires. Even those not created by her but created by Molag Bal like she was should give her the dues they owe. As without her they wouldn't exist either. Even the Vampire Lord Harkon with all his Power can't compare himself too her status. So even though he might be the first vampire lord we actually seen in the series he still is a shadow compared to her.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on February 4, 2020 3:13AM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • D0PAMINE
    D0PAMINE
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    Unseelie wrote: »
    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    Im not looking forward to feeding 17 Vampires. Im glad the skill line was reworked but feeding before content runs is going to be time consuming or expensive. I guess we'll see where this goes.

    Why would you have to feed 17 Vampires? Do you play them all at the same time?

    I rotate a lot. I have 18 toons but one is a Werewolf.
  • Noxavian
    Noxavian
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    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    Unseelie wrote: »
    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    Im not looking forward to feeding 17 Vampires. Im glad the skill line was reworked but feeding before content runs is going to be time consuming or expensive. I guess we'll see where this goes.

    Why would you have to feed 17 Vampires? Do you play them all at the same time?

    I rotate a lot. I have 18 toons but one is a Werewolf.

    Alright, but hopefully you can see how the vast majority of people don't have anywhere near 17 characters.

    So therefore having to feed to be strong doesn't affect the majority of people.
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    Noxavian wrote: »
    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    Unseelie wrote: »
    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    Im not looking forward to feeding 17 Vampires. Im glad the skill line was reworked but feeding before content runs is going to be time consuming or expensive. I guess we'll see where this goes.

    Why would you have to feed 17 Vampires? Do you play them all at the same time?

    I rotate a lot. I have 18 toons but one is a Werewolf.

    Alright, but hopefully you can see how the vast majority of people don't have anywhere near 17 characters.

    So therefore having to feed to be strong doesn't affect the majority of people.

    I've got 16 characters right now. They really should add more character slots because I want to buy more of them. Game should have at least 30 unlock able slots.
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Noxavian
    Noxavian
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    Noxavian wrote: »
    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    Unseelie wrote: »
    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    Im not looking forward to feeding 17 Vampires. Im glad the skill line was reworked but feeding before content runs is going to be time consuming or expensive. I guess we'll see where this goes.

    Why would you have to feed 17 Vampires? Do you play them all at the same time?

    I rotate a lot. I have 18 toons but one is a Werewolf.

    Alright, but hopefully you can see how the vast majority of people don't have anywhere near 17 characters.

    So therefore having to feed to be strong doesn't affect the majority of people.

    I've got 16 characters right now. They really should add more character slots because I want to buy more of them. Game should have at least 30 unlock able slots.

    Alright, but still, I would imagine the majority of people do not have that many characters.

    Quite frankly, that seems like a ridiculous amount.

    Then again I never really understood how people can have so many characters in these sort of games.

    I suppose my point I'm getting at is being afraid of having to feed on all of your chars in order to keep them at their strongest is a bit wack. Especially considering you're *choosing* to make them all vampires in the first place.
  • D0PAMINE
    D0PAMINE
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    Noxavian wrote: »
    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    Unseelie wrote: »
    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    Im not looking forward to feeding 17 Vampires. Im glad the skill line was reworked but feeding before content runs is going to be time consuming or expensive. I guess we'll see where this goes.

    Why would you have to feed 17 Vampires? Do you play them all at the same time?

    I rotate a lot. I have 18 toons but one is a Werewolf.

    Alright, but hopefully you can see how the vast majority of people don't have anywhere near 17 characters.

    So therefore having to feed to be strong doesn't affect the majority of people.

    I don't mean to imply it's this massive issue. If feeding lots of characters is my biggest annoyance, then I would likely be enjoying the update. Im actually glad vampires are getting an update, and im excited to see how to utilize them effectivly.
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
    TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    ShadowHvo wrote: »
    Noxavian wrote: »

    How do you know she isn't? You literally have nothing to back up us knowing whether or not what she's capable of.

    You literally don't have anything to back it up. I responded to the baseless theory.

    There is nothing in her character that remotely suggests that she contains such great power, no less power that makes her on-par and even capable of usurping a Daedric Prince.

    Claiming that she is, is unjustly founded, because there is nothing in universe or lore that suggests yours and thevampirenight's claims.

    She's a pure-blooded Vampire, not a demi-god. Hell, judging by the effort in display, I'll claim that from what we have seen of the character, Mannimarco had a better, and far stronger shot at usurping a Daedric Prince, yet we all know how that went.

    Had the theory involved usupring a mortal King, sure, most definitely. A powerful vampire can do a lot, in particular one who can mask themselves amongst civil society. But that's a gigantic leap from killing, or otherwise usurping literal godly entities with vast domains of rule with seemingly limitless potential.

    I'll buy into your theory IF we ever get anything from Lamae that shows her as above and beyond all other pure-blooded vampires, but until then, I'll most certainly think of her as precisely what she is.

    Two of Three Power Stealing Demigods that are called the living gods of Morrowind were enough to do what Martin did to Dagon at the end of the third era. It goes to show that mortals if they have enough power can really hurt daedric princes. Just like the Vestige was able to do to Molag Bal and I might add in his own Daedric realm. If Almalexia and Sotha Sil can do it, Martin as the Avatar of Akatosh could do it and the Vestige could do it. It is 100% Possible for Lamae to do it given she gets more strength for each vampire of her blood line. It would make sense that she would be able to get Demigod like power and if having enough vampire under her maybe the strength of the two living gods of Morrowind.

    Plus there is another factor she might have actual worshipers that worship her as the mother of all vampires or the first vampire and there are blood lines that claim she turned them directly or they come from her even if they might not come from her so they worship her as the Mother of Vampires. That along with getting stronger for every vampire out there. Could be the juice she could need to pull it off. So to Vampires she could be like a Unliving god figure. The three demigods were able to hold onto their power by worship though they became a lot weaker over time and they had to use their energies to keep the ghost fence up. The worship did help them and that was why figures claiming to be the elder scrolls three hero aka False nerevarine's were persecuted so they could keep up the faith hamsters spinning their wheels so they could hold up the Ghost Fence.

    Vivec knew that the Elder scrolls three hero the True Nerevarine couldn't be stopped that is how he would know he/she would the true one. The sermons were meant for that hero from what I'm understanding. So even though he had his temple persecute those going against the faith and having the Nerevarine prophecy hidden or persecuting those that believe in it he was able to hold on longer. So he allowed and commanded such evil acts for the greater good as he knew the ghost fence must hold and he was waiting for the True Nerevarine to show up to deal with it As he knew that was the only way to stop Dagoth Ur.
    I bring this up because well it ties into the kind of power worship might bring even demigods. Just like worship of the draugr can bring back dragon priests as a kind of lich. So its the same principle worship grants power. Have enough of it and well they can grow more powerful.

    So plus growing stronger for each vampire of her blood line plus actual vampire worship and even those not of her bloodline worshiping her could help her along with her ultimate intended goal.

    Those 3 living Gods took Divine Power from the Heart of Lorkhan so they actually had real God Power, that is how they managed to beat Mehrunes Dagon when he attacked Mournhold, Lamae Bal on the otherhand is just a pureblooded Vampire.

    And even if she were a Vampire Lord she would still be 100% the same as Serana who is also a daughter of coldharbour turned directly by Molag Bal, there is nothing she could do that she couldn't, infact did it occur the reason for Lamae Bal getting "Stronger" is because she simply has control over her bloodline like most Vampires in fiction and her blood is literally within her clan members via their little ritual?

    Her power would fall under "Powerful because you have an Army you can control through blood to back you up" not powerful as in you are a one man army like the LDB for instance.

    In her case I think she would be both one man army plus having an army behind her. Having the power of both.
    Lamae has the actual blood of Molag Bal in her. Being turned by Molag Bal himself. Now if turning works the way it does then she would be Second gen only to him. Plus we know the Daughters of Coldharbour going by Dawnguard their blood is so potent it can forever end the tyranny of the sun if every drop of their blood is used for it. The daughter of Coldharbours blood is also Molag Bals blood but having the blood of molag bal likely isn't enough. For the sun to be forever blocked out.

    Now Serana was the type of vampire that likely didn't go out of her way to turn others into vampires since her father and mother likely done a lot of that. I think she made a special exception with TLD because she felt a bond with him/her. She doesn't even offer it to members of the Dawnguard just The last dragonborn. Now if she had gone out of the way to turn others into vampires. She might be able to grow as powerful as Lamae.

    Serana could possibly be the weakest of the Daughters for the above reasons but maybe innocent enough for her blood to be most potent of all of them. To gain the power they had of course both her mother and her had to go through the ravaging ritual. We know a daughters blood with just a few drops of it can block out the sun for a day.
    Which is likely the main reason she was so linked to the prophecy and so important to it. But that might not be the only reason because she fills these roles most likely to make sacrificing her potent. Which would make the most sense for a prophecy at least to me.
    Qualities that would likely place her into the potent category.
    Serana was not allowed to have any friend or didn't have any friends from what I got from Dawnguard but not one hundred percent sure. But for sure she had a strict up bringing so she lacked the typical child hood that normal kids went through. So she never really felt how to be really normal and that is why she attached herself to the last Dragonborn. Her desire to be herself as well as maybe having what she never could have since it was technically stolen away from her along with having a true friend plus maybe not having to feed since she isn't seen doing it as if she doesn't need to Harkon and Veranica seem to not need to feed either and Harkon says it something the lesser vampires do. So likely she got spared having to drink it but maybe craves it all the time.Given she might not have to hurt other people and likely doesn't since she possibly was trying to please her family makes her a true victim and likely for a vampire a being that is truely innocent. Since innocence might be the most potent when it comes to Dark Magic. I think that is what it would have to take to block out the sun for good.

    So even though Serana was very strong as we can see in the forgotten vale. We never saw her at her strongest. Had we she would be far more powerful then Harkon and if not cured of Vampirism could even grow more powerful if she choose to turn more vampires. Which I do think the Last Dragonborn if you get it from her would qualify but might not give her much she would have to have more vampires of her blood line to do it.

    Now Lamae is the very opposite of Serana not only was she ravaged but she also sired many vampires and each one makes her stronger. She uses her full potential and likely does everything she can to make sure she is at the peak of power. She would not only be the strongest of the daughters but her influence of being the first allows her more power and prestige. She is the OG. The Original and this gives her prestige among vampires that other daughters if they exist do not enjoy they wouldn't be as likely to be worshiped like Lamae is. Because of this she is leagues above every other vampire.

    Another example here that is not related but similar. The Dark Brotherhood we know they have other Night Mothers sometimes it might a position maybe for those women who open up chapter houses. But they don't compare to the OG the First the reason why the group exists. They are not thee Night Mother they are just shadows that possibly dream of being the Original.

    Without Lamae all other blood lines of vampire likely wouldn't exist. Because they would have no way to know what happened to Lamae and they wouldn't know the concept even existed. Without the story of what happened to Lamae and what happened to Lamae others wound't have gone to Molag Bal. Harkon and his vampiriic family wouldn't exist and thus no Volkihar vampires because he wouldn't have known about Lamae and the stuff she likely went through. He wouldn't have known to go to Molag Bal to get himself a great deal from the Prince to acquire both power and Immortality required Lamae and the story of her creation that inspired it.

    Without Lamae there would no path way for other vampires to exist None what so ever. Just like without the Original Nightmother there would be no Dark Brotherhood. There are possibly many first gen vampires who might feel the envy as even they might have to acknowledge Lamae as the Mother of all vampires because they couldn't exist without her first existing. I think the same deal might apply to Dark Brotherhood Night Mothers they couldn't exist without the first. So the Power of the Original Vampire would be above all other Daughters of Coldharbour because she is the Original the reason why all the others exist. To not acknowledge her and her place in history.

    Would be a tragic mistake and possibly something that many vampires might find blasphemous is vampires that don't acknowledge the dues owed to their existence in the form of Lamae. Though another pure blooded vampire might be responsible for their clan.That pureblooded vampire wouldn't be there without Lamae. So for a vampiric religion I think she would be worshiped as the Mother of All Vampires as no other vampire comes before her not even other pure bloods. So in a way they do all owe Lamae her dues and those dues are given because without her they couldn't exist.

    So she isn't just a vampire lord and Daughter of Coldharbour. She is thee Vampire Lord Daughter of Coldhabour and importantly the Mother of all Vampires. Even those not created by her but created by Molag Bal like she was should give her the dues they owe. As without her they wouldn't exist either. Even the Vampire Lord Harkon with all his Power can't compare himself too her status. So even though he might be the first vampire lord we actually seen in the series he still is a shadow compared to her.

    You say he is a shadow but you do know Harkon is actual Royalty right, he was a King who sacrificed 1000 souls to Molag Bal.

    Lamae Bal was only a Priestess of Arkay and there is no proof that she is even as strong as Valerica let alone Harkon, after all it seems someone already killed Lamae Bal, you do know her crypt where you speak with her is located in Coldharbour right? also neither her or Harkon are the strongest Vampires in history, the one with the Dragon Soul is.
    Edited by TX12001rwb17_ESO on February 5, 2020 5:36AM
  • NordSwordnBoard
    NordSwordnBoard
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    I'm Hungry:
    350 year Perm without hair spray, forgot skin balmdracula1.jpg

    I'm Full:
    Original Vampire wears sunglasses because he can go out in the sun! OK, it's London, but still...7f5319b79262923be97575af9a322f4d.jpg

    I'm PvP:
    Which drink do I need?410a7c85e101101613d3713d033430b7.jpg


    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • VocalThought
    VocalThought
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    PVP TRADEOFFS

    Along with incentive to be a Vampire, there should be incentive not too. In the PvP community there is very little incentive to not be a vamp with regen, damage mititagtion, mist form, Accel Drain is a great skill

    Maybe a Vampire Hunter set? with significantly increased damage VS Vampire, that or bring back the power in those glyphs?

    So, the Fighter's Guild's Skills don't do extra dmg to Vampires? I thought Vampires counted as undead?
  • propertyOfUndefined
    propertyOfUndefined
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    I have 2 issues with the way vampires are implemented currently - (1) the costs far outweigh the benefits, and (2) they look awful. If these 2 concerns can be addressed, I’ll be happy.

    Regarding my first concern, I’ve always found it silly the way vampirism makes you about as durable as a soggy noodle because of the crazy hit you take to health recovery. The undeath passive doesn’t even come close to compensating for this imho.

    Regarding my 2nd concern, I tried using skins to hide how awful my character looks with stage 4 vampirism, but there are no skins that are subtle enough, and I refuse to use disguises as I spend a lot of time working on my outfits.

    Every time I’ve chosen to go vamp in the past, I’ve regreted the decision and got cured. Suddenly my character is survivable again, and I don’t have to worry about skins and aesthetics.
  • VocalThought
    VocalThought
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    ShadowHvo wrote: »
    Djennku wrote: »
    The issue I keep seeing in all these vampire threads, is that they are pure speculation based on what was mentioned in the livestream. It is still too early to judge the reVamp because we have no solid information on how these changes will look like, and even then, we can't really know until after much testing how the new system will play. Until then, these threads accomplish absolutely nothing.

    I personally am really looking forward to the new changes, especially the new feeding system, as it makes playing a vampire a more immersive role. ZoS has done very well with the continued development of the game since launch, and I expect the new content to be as great as they've had prior with the new chapter.

    We do have solid information however, claiming that it is pure speculation is outright wrong.

    Rich already confirmed the following:
    - Stages will switch, 1 will be monstrous and 4 will be mortal.
    - You need to feed to increase in stages from 4 to 1, which unlocks more passive the closer you get to stage 1, similar to live but in reverse.
    - The Vampire Lord is the new ultimate, and the vampire will receive 3 new abilities together with the existing drain and mistform. (We don't know if batswarm is reworked to be one of the new 3 abilities. They call it scion instead of Lord, but it was said to be identical to the Vampire Lord.)
    - The visual appearance of the stages remain the same, but switched around. The most powerful stage is still the most monstrous, with the weakest the most mortal.
    - Feeding is just like the Blade of Woe, you click X to initiate animation and get fed. (We don't know if it will stun them like on live, or kill them like the Blade of Woe)
    - Vampires will be integrated into the justice system, similar to Necromancer.

    That's a lot of concrete information, and yet the biggest change that we fans are angry about is the very unnecessary switchero they're doing on stages, and how they function. They can literally keep all the cool new additions, and still keep stages as they're, while giving an incentive to feed thanks to the Justice System.

    I think being a Vampire and having Vampire skills is an incentive in it's self. You should have nothing but penalties for not feeding, including the justice system. The only bonus I can see them giving is the stealth movement bonus when your a stage 4 Vampire since you'll be primal and mainly focused on feeding. All other the other passive bonuses should be reversed and using Vampire skills should increase your stages. I even think the new Ultimate should jump you to stage 4, have you avoid the penalties, but not allow you to feed while in that form.
  • VocalThought
    VocalThought
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    I would have make Vampires like this:
    You only gain levels in the Vampire World Skill through feeding and Vampire Quests.

    Stage 1: -75% health recovery, +25% dmg from fire, -21% ability cost, monstrous appearance **Criminal Act**
    Stage 2: -50% health recovery, +20% dmg from fire, -14% ability cost, poor appearance.
    Stage 3: -25% health recovery, +15% dmg from fire, -7% ability cost, fair appearance.
    Stage 4: -0 health recovery, +0 dmg from fire, -0 ability cost, attractive appearance.

    Ult: Vampire Lord **Criminal Act**
    Skill 1: Feral Slash
    Skill 2: Hypnotic Gaze
    Skill 3: Drain Essence **Criminal Act**
    Skill 4: Mist Form
    Skill 5: Bat Swarm **Criminal Act**

    Passive Bonuses
    1: Savage Feeding
    2: Supernatural Recovery for Stage 2 or Higher
    3: Blood Ritual
    4: Undeath Stage 3 or Higher
    5: Unnatural Resistance for Stages 1-3
    6: Dark Stalker while in Stage 1

    Not feeding for an extended amount of time or using Vampire Skills would reduce your Vampire Stage. (For example, each stage requires you to eat in 24hrs <in game time> Using a Vampire skill removes an hour. Using the Vampire Ult. removes 24 hours).

    Feeding would increase Vampire Stage, therefore you would have to eat 3x to get from stage 1 to stage 4.

    Vampire count as undead and are susceptible to Fighter's Guild's "Skilled Tracker".
    Edited by VocalThought on February 5, 2020 8:38AM
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    ✭✭
    ShadowHvo wrote: »
    Noxavian wrote: »

    How do you know she isn't? You literally have nothing to back up us knowing whether or not what she's capable of.

    You literally don't have anything to back it up. I responded to the baseless theory.

    There is nothing in her character that remotely suggests that she contains such great power, no less power that makes her on-par and even capable of usurping a Daedric Prince.

    Claiming that she is, is unjustly founded, because there is nothing in universe or lore that suggests yours and thevampirenight's claims.

    She's a pure-blooded Vampire, not a demi-god. Hell, judging by the effort in display, I'll claim that from what we have seen of the character, Mannimarco had a better, and far stronger shot at usurping a Daedric Prince, yet we all know how that went.

    Had the theory involved usupring a mortal King, sure, most definitely. A powerful vampire can do a lot, in particular one who can mask themselves amongst civil society. But that's a gigantic leap from killing, or otherwise usurping literal godly entities with vast domains of rule with seemingly limitless potential.

    I'll buy into your theory IF we ever get anything from Lamae that shows her as above and beyond all other pure-blooded vampires, but until then, I'll most certainly think of her as precisely what she is.

    Two of Three Power Stealing Demigods that are called the living gods of Morrowind were enough to do what Martin did to Dagon at the end of the third era. It goes to show that mortals if they have enough power can really hurt daedric princes. Just like the Vestige was able to do to Molag Bal and I might add in his own Daedric realm. If Almalexia and Sotha Sil can do it, Martin as the Avatar of Akatosh could do it and the Vestige could do it. It is 100% Possible for Lamae to do it given she gets more strength for each vampire of her blood line. It would make sense that she would be able to get Demigod like power and if having enough vampire under her maybe the strength of the two living gods of Morrowind.

    Plus there is another factor she might have actual worshipers that worship her as the mother of all vampires or the first vampire and there are blood lines that claim she turned them directly or they come from her even if they might not come from her so they worship her as the Mother of Vampires. That along with getting stronger for every vampire out there. Could be the juice she could need to pull it off. So to Vampires she could be like a Unliving god figure. The three demigods were able to hold onto their power by worship though they became a lot weaker over time and they had to use their energies to keep the ghost fence up. The worship did help them and that was why figures claiming to be the elder scrolls three hero aka False nerevarine's were persecuted so they could keep up the faith hamsters spinning their wheels so they could hold up the Ghost Fence.

    Vivec knew that the Elder scrolls three hero the True Nerevarine couldn't be stopped that is how he would know he/she would the true one. The sermons were meant for that hero from what I'm understanding. So even though he had his temple persecute those going against the faith and having the Nerevarine prophecy hidden or persecuting those that believe in it he was able to hold on longer. So he allowed and commanded such evil acts for the greater good as he knew the ghost fence must hold and he was waiting for the True Nerevarine to show up to deal with it As he knew that was the only way to stop Dagoth Ur.
    I bring this up because well it ties into the kind of power worship might bring even demigods. Just like worship of the draugr can bring back dragon priests as a kind of lich. So its the same principle worship grants power. Have enough of it and well they can grow more powerful.

    So plus growing stronger for each vampire of her blood line plus actual vampire worship and even those not of her bloodline worshiping her could help her along with her ultimate intended goal.

    Those 3 living Gods took Divine Power from the Heart of Lorkhan so they actually had real God Power, that is how they managed to beat Mehrunes Dagon when he attacked Mournhold, Lamae Bal on the otherhand is just a pureblooded Vampire.

    And even if she were a Vampire Lord she would still be 100% the same as Serana who is also a daughter of coldharbour turned directly by Molag Bal, there is nothing she could do that she couldn't, infact did it occur the reason for Lamae Bal getting "Stronger" is because she simply has control over her bloodline like most Vampires in fiction and her blood is literally within her clan members via their little ritual?

    Her power would fall under "Powerful because you have an Army you can control through blood to back you up" not powerful as in you are a one man army like the LDB for instance.

    In her case I think she would be both one man army plus having an army behind her. Having the power of both.
    Lamae has the actual blood of Molag Bal in her. Being turned by Molag Bal himself. Now if turning works the way it does then she would be Second gen only to him. Plus we know the Daughters of Coldharbour going by Dawnguard their blood is so potent it can forever end the tyranny of the sun if every drop of their blood is used for it. The daughter of Coldharbours blood is also Molag Bals blood but having the blood of molag bal likely isn't enough. For the sun to be forever blocked out.

    Now Serana was the type of vampire that likely didn't go out of her way to turn others into vampires since her father and mother likely done a lot of that. I think she made a special exception with TLD because she felt a bond with him/her. She doesn't even offer it to members of the Dawnguard just The last dragonborn. Now if she had gone out of the way to turn others into vampires. She might be able to grow as powerful as Lamae.

    Serana could possibly be the weakest of the Daughters for the above reasons but maybe innocent enough for her blood to be most potent of all of them. To gain the power they had of course both her mother and her had to go through the ravaging ritual. We know a daughters blood with just a few drops of it can block out the sun for a day.
    Which is likely the main reason she was so linked to the prophecy and so important to it. But that might not be the only reason because she fills these roles most likely to make sacrificing her potent. Which would make the most sense for a prophecy at least to me.
    Qualities that would likely place her into the potent category.
    Serana was not allowed to have any friend or didn't have any friends from what I got from Dawnguard but not one hundred percent sure. But for sure she had a strict up bringing so she lacked the typical child hood that normal kids went through. So she never really felt how to be really normal and that is why she attached herself to the last Dragonborn. Her desire to be herself as well as maybe having what she never could have since it was technically stolen away from her along with having a true friend plus maybe not having to feed since she isn't seen doing it as if she doesn't need to Harkon and Veranica seem to not need to feed either and Harkon says it something the lesser vampires do. So likely she got spared having to drink it but maybe craves it all the time.Given she might not have to hurt other people and likely doesn't since she possibly was trying to please her family makes her a true victim and likely for a vampire a being that is truely innocent. Since innocence might be the most potent when it comes to Dark Magic. I think that is what it would have to take to block out the sun for good.

    So even though Serana was very strong as we can see in the forgotten vale. We never saw her at her strongest. Had we she would be far more powerful then Harkon and if not cured of Vampirism could even grow more powerful if she choose to turn more vampires. Which I do think the Last Dragonborn if you get it from her would qualify but might not give her much she would have to have more vampires of her blood line to do it.

    Now Lamae is the very opposite of Serana not only was she ravaged but she also sired many vampires and each one makes her stronger. She uses her full potential and likely does everything she can to make sure she is at the peak of power. She would not only be the strongest of the daughters but her influence of being the first allows her more power and prestige. She is the OG. The Original and this gives her prestige among vampires that other daughters if they exist do not enjoy they wouldn't be as likely to be worshiped like Lamae is. Because of this she is leagues above every other vampire.

    Another example here that is not related but similar. The Dark Brotherhood we know they have other Night Mothers sometimes it might a position maybe for those women who open up chapter houses. But they don't compare to the OG the First the reason why the group exists. They are not thee Night Mother they are just shadows that possibly dream of being the Original.

    Without Lamae all other blood lines of vampire likely wouldn't exist. Because they would have no way to know what happened to Lamae and they wouldn't know the concept even existed. Without the story of what happened to Lamae and what happened to Lamae others wound't have gone to Molag Bal. Harkon and his vampiriic family wouldn't exist and thus no Volkihar vampires because he wouldn't have known about Lamae and the stuff she likely went through. He wouldn't have known to go to Molag Bal to get himself a great deal from the Prince to acquire both power and Immortality required Lamae and the story of her creation that inspired it.

    Without Lamae there would no path way for other vampires to exist None what so ever. Just like without the Original Nightmother there would be no Dark Brotherhood. There are possibly many first gen vampires who might feel the envy as even they might have to acknowledge Lamae as the Mother of all vampires because they couldn't exist without her first existing. I think the same deal might apply to Dark Brotherhood Night Mothers they couldn't exist without the first. So the Power of the Original Vampire would be above all other Daughters of Coldharbour because she is the Original the reason why all the others exist. To not acknowledge her and her place in history.

    Would be a tragic mistake and possibly something that many vampires might find blasphemous is vampires that don't acknowledge the dues owed to their existence in the form of Lamae. Though another pure blooded vampire might be responsible for their clan.That pureblooded vampire wouldn't be there without Lamae. So for a vampiric religion I think she would be worshiped as the Mother of All Vampires as no other vampire comes before her not even other pure bloods. So in a way they do all owe Lamae her dues and those dues are given because without her they couldn't exist.

    So she isn't just a vampire lord and Daughter of Coldharbour. She is thee Vampire Lord Daughter of Coldhabour and importantly the Mother of all Vampires. Even those not created by her but created by Molag Bal like she was should give her the dues they owe. As without her they wouldn't exist either. Even the Vampire Lord Harkon with all his Power can't compare himself too her status. So even though he might be the first vampire lord we actually seen in the series he still is a shadow compared to her.

    You say he is a shadow but you do know Harkon is actual Royalty right, he was a King who sacrificed 1000 souls to Molag Bal.

    Lamae Bal was only a Priestess of Arkay and there is no proof that she is even as strong as Valerica let alone Harkon, after all it seems someone already killed Lamae Bal, you do know her crypt where you speak with her is located in Coldharbour right?

    What they were before doesn't really matter much. She could be a homeless person on the street before she became what she is. What matters is she was the first vampire. Even if Harkon is royality. He still would pale in comparison to Lamae.

    Here is what Serana had to say about her. She doesn't mention her name but she knows the origins. If you talk to her in the dlc about it.

    I would guess it came from a daedric lord.
    "Exactly! The first vampire came from Molag Bal. She... was not a willing subject. But she was still the first. Molag Bal is a powerful daedric lord, and his will is made reality. For those willing to subjugate themselves, he will still bestow the gift, but they must be powerful in their own right before earning his trust."

    Anyways the point yes Harkon, Serana and Valerica were powerful vampires in their own right. But they still had that major hurdle Sunlight.
    Lamae Bal is like Dracula. Even her Bloodline has a unique Dracula like quality. Not harmed by Sunlight but more powerful as a vampire at night. That means unlike them if she wanted to prance about in the sunlight she could and she wouldn't be harmed or weakened by it. But she still would be stronger at night. That makes her far more powerful then they are.

    This basically makes her the Dracula of Elder Scrolls. Every other vampire suffers from sunlight in some form but not her or her clan. As being the first strain they are immune to such petty concerns that other vampires suffer from. Just like Dracula and that is how the Elder Scrolls Online Vampires work.

    Example here say that Harkon had to duel with Lamae outside in the middle of the day, In full view of the sun. Harkon would be weakened but Lamae would be unaffected and thus could beat him because she doesn't suffer from Sunlight. This is the biggest difference between the two of them.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on February 5, 2020 9:07AM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
    TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    ✭✭✭
    ShadowHvo wrote: »
    Noxavian wrote: »

    How do you know she isn't? You literally have nothing to back up us knowing whether or not what she's capable of.

    You literally don't have anything to back it up. I responded to the baseless theory.

    There is nothing in her character that remotely suggests that she contains such great power, no less power that makes her on-par and even capable of usurping a Daedric Prince.

    Claiming that she is, is unjustly founded, because there is nothing in universe or lore that suggests yours and thevampirenight's claims.

    She's a pure-blooded Vampire, not a demi-god. Hell, judging by the effort in display, I'll claim that from what we have seen of the character, Mannimarco had a better, and far stronger shot at usurping a Daedric Prince, yet we all know how that went.

    Had the theory involved usupring a mortal King, sure, most definitely. A powerful vampire can do a lot, in particular one who can mask themselves amongst civil society. But that's a gigantic leap from killing, or otherwise usurping literal godly entities with vast domains of rule with seemingly limitless potential.

    I'll buy into your theory IF we ever get anything from Lamae that shows her as above and beyond all other pure-blooded vampires, but until then, I'll most certainly think of her as precisely what she is.

    Two of Three Power Stealing Demigods that are called the living gods of Morrowind were enough to do what Martin did to Dagon at the end of the third era. It goes to show that mortals if they have enough power can really hurt daedric princes. Just like the Vestige was able to do to Molag Bal and I might add in his own Daedric realm. If Almalexia and Sotha Sil can do it, Martin as the Avatar of Akatosh could do it and the Vestige could do it. It is 100% Possible for Lamae to do it given she gets more strength for each vampire of her blood line. It would make sense that she would be able to get Demigod like power and if having enough vampire under her maybe the strength of the two living gods of Morrowind.

    Plus there is another factor she might have actual worshipers that worship her as the mother of all vampires or the first vampire and there are blood lines that claim she turned them directly or they come from her even if they might not come from her so they worship her as the Mother of Vampires. That along with getting stronger for every vampire out there. Could be the juice she could need to pull it off. So to Vampires she could be like a Unliving god figure. The three demigods were able to hold onto their power by worship though they became a lot weaker over time and they had to use their energies to keep the ghost fence up. The worship did help them and that was why figures claiming to be the elder scrolls three hero aka False nerevarine's were persecuted so they could keep up the faith hamsters spinning their wheels so they could hold up the Ghost Fence.

    Vivec knew that the Elder scrolls three hero the True Nerevarine couldn't be stopped that is how he would know he/she would the true one. The sermons were meant for that hero from what I'm understanding. So even though he had his temple persecute those going against the faith and having the Nerevarine prophecy hidden or persecuting those that believe in it he was able to hold on longer. So he allowed and commanded such evil acts for the greater good as he knew the ghost fence must hold and he was waiting for the True Nerevarine to show up to deal with it As he knew that was the only way to stop Dagoth Ur.
    I bring this up because well it ties into the kind of power worship might bring even demigods. Just like worship of the draugr can bring back dragon priests as a kind of lich. So its the same principle worship grants power. Have enough of it and well they can grow more powerful.

    So plus growing stronger for each vampire of her blood line plus actual vampire worship and even those not of her bloodline worshiping her could help her along with her ultimate intended goal.

    Those 3 living Gods took Divine Power from the Heart of Lorkhan so they actually had real God Power, that is how they managed to beat Mehrunes Dagon when he attacked Mournhold, Lamae Bal on the otherhand is just a pureblooded Vampire.

    And even if she were a Vampire Lord she would still be 100% the same as Serana who is also a daughter of coldharbour turned directly by Molag Bal, there is nothing she could do that she couldn't, infact did it occur the reason for Lamae Bal getting "Stronger" is because she simply has control over her bloodline like most Vampires in fiction and her blood is literally within her clan members via their little ritual?

    Her power would fall under "Powerful because you have an Army you can control through blood to back you up" not powerful as in you are a one man army like the LDB for instance.

    In her case I think she would be both one man army plus having an army behind her. Having the power of both.
    Lamae has the actual blood of Molag Bal in her. Being turned by Molag Bal himself. Now if turning works the way it does then she would be Second gen only to him. Plus we know the Daughters of Coldharbour going by Dawnguard their blood is so potent it can forever end the tyranny of the sun if every drop of their blood is used for it. The daughter of Coldharbours blood is also Molag Bals blood but having the blood of molag bal likely isn't enough. For the sun to be forever blocked out.

    Now Serana was the type of vampire that likely didn't go out of her way to turn others into vampires since her father and mother likely done a lot of that. I think she made a special exception with TLD because she felt a bond with him/her. She doesn't even offer it to members of the Dawnguard just The last dragonborn. Now if she had gone out of the way to turn others into vampires. She might be able to grow as powerful as Lamae.

    Serana could possibly be the weakest of the Daughters for the above reasons but maybe innocent enough for her blood to be most potent of all of them. To gain the power they had of course both her mother and her had to go through the ravaging ritual. We know a daughters blood with just a few drops of it can block out the sun for a day.
    Which is likely the main reason she was so linked to the prophecy and so important to it. But that might not be the only reason because she fills these roles most likely to make sacrificing her potent. Which would make the most sense for a prophecy at least to me.
    Qualities that would likely place her into the potent category.
    Serana was not allowed to have any friend or didn't have any friends from what I got from Dawnguard but not one hundred percent sure. But for sure she had a strict up bringing so she lacked the typical child hood that normal kids went through. So she never really felt how to be really normal and that is why she attached herself to the last Dragonborn. Her desire to be herself as well as maybe having what she never could have since it was technically stolen away from her along with having a true friend plus maybe not having to feed since she isn't seen doing it as if she doesn't need to Harkon and Veranica seem to not need to feed either and Harkon says it something the lesser vampires do. So likely she got spared having to drink it but maybe craves it all the time.Given she might not have to hurt other people and likely doesn't since she possibly was trying to please her family makes her a true victim and likely for a vampire a being that is truely innocent. Since innocence might be the most potent when it comes to Dark Magic. I think that is what it would have to take to block out the sun for good.

    So even though Serana was very strong as we can see in the forgotten vale. We never saw her at her strongest. Had we she would be far more powerful then Harkon and if not cured of Vampirism could even grow more powerful if she choose to turn more vampires. Which I do think the Last Dragonborn if you get it from her would qualify but might not give her much she would have to have more vampires of her blood line to do it.

    Now Lamae is the very opposite of Serana not only was she ravaged but she also sired many vampires and each one makes her stronger. She uses her full potential and likely does everything she can to make sure she is at the peak of power. She would not only be the strongest of the daughters but her influence of being the first allows her more power and prestige. She is the OG. The Original and this gives her prestige among vampires that other daughters if they exist do not enjoy they wouldn't be as likely to be worshiped like Lamae is. Because of this she is leagues above every other vampire.

    Another example here that is not related but similar. The Dark Brotherhood we know they have other Night Mothers sometimes it might a position maybe for those women who open up chapter houses. But they don't compare to the OG the First the reason why the group exists. They are not thee Night Mother they are just shadows that possibly dream of being the Original.

    Without Lamae all other blood lines of vampire likely wouldn't exist. Because they would have no way to know what happened to Lamae and they wouldn't know the concept even existed. Without the story of what happened to Lamae and what happened to Lamae others wound't have gone to Molag Bal. Harkon and his vampiriic family wouldn't exist and thus no Volkihar vampires because he wouldn't have known about Lamae and the stuff she likely went through. He wouldn't have known to go to Molag Bal to get himself a great deal from the Prince to acquire both power and Immortality required Lamae and the story of her creation that inspired it.

    Without Lamae there would no path way for other vampires to exist None what so ever. Just like without the Original Nightmother there would be no Dark Brotherhood. There are possibly many first gen vampires who might feel the envy as even they might have to acknowledge Lamae as the Mother of all vampires because they couldn't exist without her first existing. I think the same deal might apply to Dark Brotherhood Night Mothers they couldn't exist without the first. So the Power of the Original Vampire would be above all other Daughters of Coldharbour because she is the Original the reason why all the others exist. To not acknowledge her and her place in history.

    Would be a tragic mistake and possibly something that many vampires might find blasphemous is vampires that don't acknowledge the dues owed to their existence in the form of Lamae. Though another pure blooded vampire might be responsible for their clan.That pureblooded vampire wouldn't be there without Lamae. So for a vampiric religion I think she would be worshiped as the Mother of All Vampires as no other vampire comes before her not even other pure bloods. So in a way they do all owe Lamae her dues and those dues are given because without her they couldn't exist.

    So she isn't just a vampire lord and Daughter of Coldharbour. She is thee Vampire Lord Daughter of Coldhabour and importantly the Mother of all Vampires. Even those not created by her but created by Molag Bal like she was should give her the dues they owe. As without her they wouldn't exist either. Even the Vampire Lord Harkon with all his Power can't compare himself too her status. So even though he might be the first vampire lord we actually seen in the series he still is a shadow compared to her.

    You say he is a shadow but you do know Harkon is actual Royalty right, he was a King who sacrificed 1000 souls to Molag Bal.

    Lamae Bal was only a Priestess of Arkay and there is no proof that she is even as strong as Valerica let alone Harkon, after all it seems someone already killed Lamae Bal, you do know her crypt where you speak with her is located in Coldharbour right?

    What they were before doesn't really matter much. She could be a homeless person on the street before she became what she is. What matters is she was the first vampire.. Even if Harkon is royality. He still would pale in comparison to Lamae.

    Here is what Serana had to say about her. She doesn't mention her name but she knows the origins. If you talk to her in the dlc about it.

    I would guess it came from a daedric lord.
    "Exactly! The first vampire came from Molag Bal. She... was not a willing subject. But she was still the first. Molag Bal is a powerful daedric lord, and his will is made reality. For those willing to subjugate themselves, he will still bestow the gift, but they must be powerful in their own right before earning his trust."

    Harkon, Serana and Valerica were powerful vampires in their own right. But they still had that major hurdle Sunlight.
    Lamae Bal is like Dracula. Even her Bloodline has a unique Dracula like quality. Not harmed by Sunlight but more powerful as a vampire at night. That means unlike them if she wanted to prance about in the sunlight she could and she wouldn't be harmed or weakened by it. But she still would be stronger at night. That makes her far more powerful then they are.

    Think of her like the Dracula of Elder Scrolls. Every other vampire suffers from sunlight in some form but not her or her clan. As being the first strain they are immune to such petty concerns that other vampires suffer from. Just like Dracula and that is how the Elder Scrolls Online Vampires work.

    Example here say that Harkon had to duel with Lamae outside in the middle of the day, In full view of the sun. Harkon would be weakened but Lamae would be unaffected and thus she could likely beat him because she after all doesn't suffer from Sunlight like he does as she is just like Dracula and has no sunlight issues. That is the biggest differences between the two of them.

    You really have it hard for Lamae Bal don't you, did it ever occur to you though that the whole "Strengthened at Night Time" thing means they can only access their full-Vampiric Power at night as opposed to 24/7, even some of the abilities you got long ago reflected this, I believe there used to be a morph for Drain where it ticked twice as fast at nighttime, which means during the daytime these Vampires are no stronger then mortals, that is how Dracula worked, the Volkihar Vampires can use their full-powers at anytime.

    But if any Vampire in the series would be based off of Dracula it would be none other then the Vampire Lord with the soul of a Dragon, I doubt Lamae Bal would stand much of a chance against them in a fight.

    Infact here is something fun to think about, if you have ever played Castlevania Lords of Shadow you may notice that if you join the Dawnguard in Skyrim and become a Vampire Lord by way of Serana the path to power for both the Dragonborn and Dracula is almost identical, The protagonist gets turned into a Vampire by the antagonists Daughter to enter a realm where the living cannot tread and they are both seen as "Dragons" Dracula not only means Son of the Dragon but in the game he can turn into one and the Dragonborn has a Dragon Soul which means they are also somewhat a Dragon.
    Edited by TX12001rwb17_ESO on February 5, 2020 9:26AM
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    ShadowHvo wrote: »
    Noxavian wrote: »

    How do you know she isn't? You literally have nothing to back up us knowing whether or not what she's capable of.

    You literally don't have anything to back it up. I responded to the baseless theory.

    There is nothing in her character that remotely suggests that she contains such great power, no less power that makes her on-par and even capable of usurping a Daedric Prince.

    Claiming that she is, is unjustly founded, because there is nothing in universe or lore that suggests yours and thevampirenight's claims.

    She's a pure-blooded Vampire, not a demi-god. Hell, judging by the effort in display, I'll claim that from what we have seen of the character, Mannimarco had a better, and far stronger shot at usurping a Daedric Prince, yet we all know how that went.

    Had the theory involved usupring a mortal King, sure, most definitely. A powerful vampire can do a lot, in particular one who can mask themselves amongst civil society. But that's a gigantic leap from killing, or otherwise usurping literal godly entities with vast domains of rule with seemingly limitless potential.

    I'll buy into your theory IF we ever get anything from Lamae that shows her as above and beyond all other pure-blooded vampires, but until then, I'll most certainly think of her as precisely what she is.

    Two of Three Power Stealing Demigods that are called the living gods of Morrowind were enough to do what Martin did to Dagon at the end of the third era. It goes to show that mortals if they have enough power can really hurt daedric princes. Just like the Vestige was able to do to Molag Bal and I might add in his own Daedric realm. If Almalexia and Sotha Sil can do it, Martin as the Avatar of Akatosh could do it and the Vestige could do it. It is 100% Possible for Lamae to do it given she gets more strength for each vampire of her blood line. It would make sense that she would be able to get Demigod like power and if having enough vampire under her maybe the strength of the two living gods of Morrowind.

    Plus there is another factor she might have actual worshipers that worship her as the mother of all vampires or the first vampire and there are blood lines that claim she turned them directly or they come from her even if they might not come from her so they worship her as the Mother of Vampires. That along with getting stronger for every vampire out there. Could be the juice she could need to pull it off. So to Vampires she could be like a Unliving god figure. The three demigods were able to hold onto their power by worship though they became a lot weaker over time and they had to use their energies to keep the ghost fence up. The worship did help them and that was why figures claiming to be the elder scrolls three hero aka False nerevarine's were persecuted so they could keep up the faith hamsters spinning their wheels so they could hold up the Ghost Fence.

    Vivec knew that the Elder scrolls three hero the True Nerevarine couldn't be stopped that is how he would know he/she would the true one. The sermons were meant for that hero from what I'm understanding. So even though he had his temple persecute those going against the faith and having the Nerevarine prophecy hidden or persecuting those that believe in it he was able to hold on longer. So he allowed and commanded such evil acts for the greater good as he knew the ghost fence must hold and he was waiting for the True Nerevarine to show up to deal with it As he knew that was the only way to stop Dagoth Ur.
    I bring this up because well it ties into the kind of power worship might bring even demigods. Just like worship of the draugr can bring back dragon priests as a kind of lich. So its the same principle worship grants power. Have enough of it and well they can grow more powerful.

    So plus growing stronger for each vampire of her blood line plus actual vampire worship and even those not of her bloodline worshiping her could help her along with her ultimate intended goal.

    Those 3 living Gods took Divine Power from the Heart of Lorkhan so they actually had real God Power, that is how they managed to beat Mehrunes Dagon when he attacked Mournhold, Lamae Bal on the otherhand is just a pureblooded Vampire.

    And even if she were a Vampire Lord she would still be 100% the same as Serana who is also a daughter of coldharbour turned directly by Molag Bal, there is nothing she could do that she couldn't, infact did it occur the reason for Lamae Bal getting "Stronger" is because she simply has control over her bloodline like most Vampires in fiction and her blood is literally within her clan members via their little ritual?

    Her power would fall under "Powerful because you have an Army you can control through blood to back you up" not powerful as in you are a one man army like the LDB for instance.

    In her case I think she would be both one man army plus having an army behind her. Having the power of both.
    Lamae has the actual blood of Molag Bal in her. Being turned by Molag Bal himself. Now if turning works the way it does then she would be Second gen only to him. Plus we know the Daughters of Coldharbour going by Dawnguard their blood is so potent it can forever end the tyranny of the sun if every drop of their blood is used for it. The daughter of Coldharbours blood is also Molag Bals blood but having the blood of molag bal likely isn't enough. For the sun to be forever blocked out.

    Now Serana was the type of vampire that likely didn't go out of her way to turn others into vampires since her father and mother likely done a lot of that. I think she made a special exception with TLD because she felt a bond with him/her. She doesn't even offer it to members of the Dawnguard just The last dragonborn. Now if she had gone out of the way to turn others into vampires. She might be able to grow as powerful as Lamae.

    Serana could possibly be the weakest of the Daughters for the above reasons but maybe innocent enough for her blood to be most potent of all of them. To gain the power they had of course both her mother and her had to go through the ravaging ritual. We know a daughters blood with just a few drops of it can block out the sun for a day.
    Which is likely the main reason she was so linked to the prophecy and so important to it. But that might not be the only reason because she fills these roles most likely to make sacrificing her potent. Which would make the most sense for a prophecy at least to me.
    Qualities that would likely place her into the potent category.
    Serana was not allowed to have any friend or didn't have any friends from what I got from Dawnguard but not one hundred percent sure. But for sure she had a strict up bringing so she lacked the typical child hood that normal kids went through. So she never really felt how to be really normal and that is why she attached herself to the last Dragonborn. Her desire to be herself as well as maybe having what she never could have since it was technically stolen away from her along with having a true friend plus maybe not having to feed since she isn't seen doing it as if she doesn't need to Harkon and Veranica seem to not need to feed either and Harkon says it something the lesser vampires do. So likely she got spared having to drink it but maybe craves it all the time.Given she might not have to hurt other people and likely doesn't since she possibly was trying to please her family makes her a true victim and likely for a vampire a being that is truely innocent. Since innocence might be the most potent when it comes to Dark Magic. I think that is what it would have to take to block out the sun for good.

    So even though Serana was very strong as we can see in the forgotten vale. We never saw her at her strongest. Had we she would be far more powerful then Harkon and if not cured of Vampirism could even grow more powerful if she choose to turn more vampires. Which I do think the Last Dragonborn if you get it from her would qualify but might not give her much she would have to have more vampires of her blood line to do it.

    Now Lamae is the very opposite of Serana not only was she ravaged but she also sired many vampires and each one makes her stronger. She uses her full potential and likely does everything she can to make sure she is at the peak of power. She would not only be the strongest of the daughters but her influence of being the first allows her more power and prestige. She is the OG. The Original and this gives her prestige among vampires that other daughters if they exist do not enjoy they wouldn't be as likely to be worshiped like Lamae is. Because of this she is leagues above every other vampire.

    Another example here that is not related but similar. The Dark Brotherhood we know they have other Night Mothers sometimes it might a position maybe for those women who open up chapter houses. But they don't compare to the OG the First the reason why the group exists. They are not thee Night Mother they are just shadows that possibly dream of being the Original.

    Without Lamae all other blood lines of vampire likely wouldn't exist. Because they would have no way to know what happened to Lamae and they wouldn't know the concept even existed. Without the story of what happened to Lamae and what happened to Lamae others wound't have gone to Molag Bal. Harkon and his vampiriic family wouldn't exist and thus no Volkihar vampires because he wouldn't have known about Lamae and the stuff she likely went through. He wouldn't have known to go to Molag Bal to get himself a great deal from the Prince to acquire both power and Immortality required Lamae and the story of her creation that inspired it.

    Without Lamae there would no path way for other vampires to exist None what so ever. Just like without the Original Nightmother there would be no Dark Brotherhood. There are possibly many first gen vampires who might feel the envy as even they might have to acknowledge Lamae as the Mother of all vampires because they couldn't exist without her first existing. I think the same deal might apply to Dark Brotherhood Night Mothers they couldn't exist without the first. So the Power of the Original Vampire would be above all other Daughters of Coldharbour because she is the Original the reason why all the others exist. To not acknowledge her and her place in history.

    Would be a tragic mistake and possibly something that many vampires might find blasphemous is vampires that don't acknowledge the dues owed to their existence in the form of Lamae. Though another pure blooded vampire might be responsible for their clan.That pureblooded vampire wouldn't be there without Lamae. So for a vampiric religion I think she would be worshiped as the Mother of All Vampires as no other vampire comes before her not even other pure bloods. So in a way they do all owe Lamae her dues and those dues are given because without her they couldn't exist.

    So she isn't just a vampire lord and Daughter of Coldharbour. She is thee Vampire Lord Daughter of Coldhabour and importantly the Mother of all Vampires. Even those not created by her but created by Molag Bal like she was should give her the dues they owe. As without her they wouldn't exist either. Even the Vampire Lord Harkon with all his Power can't compare himself too her status. So even though he might be the first vampire lord we actually seen in the series he still is a shadow compared to her.

    You say he is a shadow but you do know Harkon is actual Royalty right, he was a King who sacrificed 1000 souls to Molag Bal.

    Lamae Bal was only a Priestess of Arkay and there is no proof that she is even as strong as Valerica let alone Harkon, after all it seems someone already killed Lamae Bal, you do know her crypt where you speak with her is located in Coldharbour right?

    What they were before doesn't really matter much. She could be a homeless person on the street before she became what she is. What matters is she was the first vampire.. Even if Harkon is royality. He still would pale in comparison to Lamae.

    Here is what Serana had to say about her. She doesn't mention her name but she knows the origins. If you talk to her in the dlc about it.

    I would guess it came from a daedric lord.
    "Exactly! The first vampire came from Molag Bal. She... was not a willing subject. But she was still the first. Molag Bal is a powerful daedric lord, and his will is made reality. For those willing to subjugate themselves, he will still bestow the gift, but they must be powerful in their own right before earning his trust."

    Harkon, Serana and Valerica were powerful vampires in their own right. But they still had that major hurdle Sunlight.
    Lamae Bal is like Dracula. Even her Bloodline has a unique Dracula like quality. Not harmed by Sunlight but more powerful as a vampire at night. That means unlike them if she wanted to prance about in the sunlight she could and she wouldn't be harmed or weakened by it. But she still would be stronger at night. That makes her far more powerful then they are.

    Think of her like the Dracula of Elder Scrolls. Every other vampire suffers from sunlight in some form but not her or her clan. As being the first strain they are immune to such petty concerns that other vampires suffer from. Just like Dracula and that is how the Elder Scrolls Online Vampires work.

    Example here say that Harkon had to duel with Lamae outside in the middle of the day, In full view of the sun. Harkon would be weakened but Lamae would be unaffected and thus she could likely beat him because she after all doesn't suffer from Sunlight like he does as she is just like Dracula and has no sunlight issues. That is the biggest differences between the two of them.

    You really have a Hard-On for Lamae Bal don't you, did it ever occur to you though that the whole "Strengthened at Night Time" thing means they can only access their full-Vampiric Power at night as opposed to 24/7, even some of the abilities you got long ago reflected this, I believe there used to be a morph for Drain where it ticked twice as fast at nighttime, which means during the daytime these Vampires are no stronger then mortals, that is how Dracula worked, the Volkihar Vampires have their power all the time, the sun just reduces their powers instead of outright preventing them from using it and even then it is not really severe.

    But if any Vampire in the series would be based off of Dracula it would be none other then the strongest Vampire in the series and here is a hint to who it is, they eat Dragons for dinner.
    Not really when it comes to her personally but it makes sense to me she would be the most powerful out of all the non playable vampires. I do agree that the Last Dragonborn obviously would be the strongest of the playable vampires. They are after all a Demigod to begin with the more shouts they know the more powerful their thuum is. After all the prophecy if you read it carefully.
    Among the night's children, a dread lord will rise. In an age of strife, when dragons return to the realm of men, darkness will mingle with light and the night and day will be as one.

    Everyone might assume its Harkon as the Dread Lord but maybe its the Last Dragonborn. As after all Harkon was likely just a man but The Last Dragonborn has the soul of a dragon. Given the nature for the Dragonborn to try and dominate that makes them very powerful and very dangerous. But even still it took the bow to take Harkon down. Could be done without it but well the bow helped take him down.

    Other then comparing the Last Dragonborn here. Lamae still would be the most like Dracula in terms of vampiric qualities. We are getting vampire lords and well that will not be based on the time of day or night. So can be used in either that means her abilties could also be used day or night. So I doubt she would suffer from sunlight to where she can't use any of her vampiric abilties. So she wouldn't be completely like Dracula who couldn't use all his vampiric abilties. But she would still be able to use them and recover magicka, stamina normally while Harkon would likely be completely stunted since it does hinder the recovery at least for his blood line. Though Harkon might be able to beat her. I doubt he could because she has immunity to sunlight.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on February 5, 2020 9:48AM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
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