Concerns about vampire changes, share yours.

ShadowHvo

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

PVP TRADEOFFS

Along with incentive to be a Vampire, there should be incentive not too. In the PvP community there is very little incentive to not be a vamp with regen, damage mititagtion, mist form, Accel Drain is a great skill

Maybe a Vampire Hunter set? with significantly increased damage VS Vampire, that or bring back the power in those glyphs?

Ironically enough, this is part of what we roleplayers are fighting for.

Vampirism in TES is a duality, the monstrous vs the humane. The more well-fed a vampire is, the prettier/handsome they're, and the less strength's and weaknesses they receive. They're at their most mortal, their most humane.

However, the more famished they become, so too does their monstrous prowess heighten, their strengths increasing, yet so too, their weaknesses.

It's a duality, risk vs reward that many people in these debates takes completely for granted, in favor of their rule of cool, and their wishes to be a handsome / beautiful super powerful vampire with all of the strengths yet none of the weaknesses. It's a shame, really, for it completely neglects whats so interesting about TES vampirism.

I can only hope that Zenimax will see right from wrong, and stay true to themselves and the universe that we all treasure. Keep all the cool new things, balance out the strengths and weaknesses, and make the stages work as they currently do, but with added incentive to stay well fed via the justice system.

That too should extend to PvP. Vampirism is illegal, a crime against humanity itself. NPC's in Cyrodiil and Keep guards should see a monstrous stage 4 vampire as an enemy, because they're.

Risk vs. Reward.

EDIT: I honestly also think that a set like that could be cool, and that there should be some sort of skill-line that Vampires and Lycanthropes cannot receive because of their affliction. Furthermore adding to this risk vs reward.

Be it the Fighters Guild skill-line, or a new Dawnguard inspired skill-line or anything related to anti-monster.

Thevampirenight

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

PVP TRADEOFFS

Along with incentive to be a Vampire, there should be incentive not too. In the PvP community there is very little incentive to not be a vamp with regen, damage mititagtion, mist form, Accel Drain is a great skill

Maybe a Vampire Hunter set? with significantly increased damage VS Vampire, that or bring back the power in those glyphs?

Ironically enough, this is part of what we roleplayers are fighting for.

Vampirism in TES is a duality, the monstrous vs the humane. The more well-fed a vampire is, the prettier/handsome they're, and the less strength's and weaknesses they receive. They're at their most mortal, their most humane.

However, the more famished they become, so too does their monstrous prowess heighten, their strengths increasing, yet so too, their weaknesses.

It's a duality, risk vs reward that many people in these debates takes completely for granted, in favor of their rule of cool, and their wishes to be a handsome / beautiful super powerful vampire with all of the strengths yet none of the weaknesses. It's a shame, really, for it completely neglects whats so interesting about TES vampirism.

I can only hope that Zenimax will see right from wrong, and stay true to themselves and the universe that we all treasure. Keep all the cool new things, balance out the strengths and weaknesses, and make the stages work as they currently do, but with added incentive to stay well fed via the justice system.

That too should extend to PvP. Vampirism is illegal, a crime against humanity itself. NPC's in Cyrodiil and Keep guards should see a monstrous stage 4 vampire as an enemy, because they're.

Risk vs. Reward.

Oh pvpers would be so upset if they did that in Cyrodiil. The uproar over it would be very big on on that one if they were to introduce being attacked by your own alliance guards. Think of the uproar over bosmer changes. It would be far worse threads after threads of pvper complaints if they did that. Yeah for obvious reasons I think they would be wise not to add that element into Pvp. That is something that could cause the fiercest of backlash and why I doubt they would ever introduce such a thing.

ShadowHvo

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Oh pvpers would be so upset if they did that in Cyrodiil. The uproar over it would be very big on on that one if they were to introduce being attacked by your own alliance guards. Think of the uproar over bosmer changes. It would be far worse threads after threads of pvper complaints if they did that. Yeah for obvious reasons I think they would be wise not to add that element into Pvp. That is something that could cause the fiercest of backlash and why I doubt they would ever introduce such a thing.

But this is the irony, because now you're taking the risk out of being a vampire, you're removing the essential core of what it is to be a monster hidden amongst the mortal populous.

You know an easy fix to that? Feed once! Then you'll no longer get attacked, but neither will you receive the full strengths of what it means to be a monstrous vampire upon Tamriel.

Risk vs Reward, it's fun and it balances out.

MartiniDaniels

I don't have concerns. Since my characters (all of them) became vampires, PVP became times easier. I can't count how many times my life is saved by Mist or undeath. I think once in 1 minute of active combat won't be exaggeration. Mist allows to build glass cannon for classes which don't have cloak or shields. Vampire is absolutely broken and OP in PVP and should be not nerfed.. it should be completely remade.

Thevampirenight

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Oh pvpers would be so upset if they did that in Cyrodiil. The uproar over it would be very big on on that one if they were to introduce being attacked by your own alliance guards. Think of the uproar over bosmer changes. It would be far worse threads after threads of pvper complaints if they did that. Yeah for obvious reasons I think they would be wise not to add that element into Pvp. That is something that could cause the fiercest of backlash and why I doubt they would ever introduce such a thing.

But this is the irony, because now you're taking the risk out of being a vampire, you're removing the essential core of what it is to be a monster hidden amongst the mortal populous.

You know an easy fix to that? Feed once! Then you'll no longer get attacked, but neither will you receive the full strengths of what it means to be a monstrous vampire upon Tamriel.

Risk vs Reward, it's fun and it balances out.

Right now there is no benefit for not having to feed. Draw backs were great when they had the highest stage have at least 50% fire weakness. But they nerfed that and well with the cp system plus dunmer race or some type of fire resistance and it isn't as much of an issue. I really do like the changes that you have to overgorge yourself to be more powerful. That does have the feel that Hircine's werewolves work under.
Given there is lore that they love moonlight and also their sunlight immunity could be a byproduct of Hircine himself. These changes they are doing do make sense though, some people really hate it. But it also has its own type of drawbacks one you have to feed. Using a special kind of food buff or drink buff which will be overrided by the mara potions so either have to find a neck or have to reapply your food/drink after drinking a Mara potion. That would be another thing that would get people complaining.
But here is the thing If they don't make the changes people will complain. If they do make the changes they will complain if they make vampiric abilties op they will complain. If they underpower them they will complain. If they reverse how it works but make it so highest tier of power looks pretty they will complain.
If they do it the way they are doing to make it more ugly while being at the highest tier of power and well fed they will complain. So no matter what people will complain about something. I do think they know this going in with it.

They are making their own pathway with Vampirism. Making their own unique thing or expanding on their unique vampirism. It is their game they control it. They know the lore they have great lore masters and all they are doing is expanding onto it. As lore isn't written out of game but from the prospective of the characters themselves in the game.

The way things work in Elder scrolls leave room for any type of possibility. Even if we might not like those possibilities they have went out of their way to try to make things not set into stone. Vampirism for example Molag Bal is considered to be the creator but also they have added into the lore about other ways they can come about. That it can also be created by Alchemy.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/481434/what-are-your-thoughts-on-alchemical-vampirism-contains-spoilers-for-murder-in-lillandril
This thread has links and talks about the Alchemical brewed vampire they introduced in Summerset.

Another thing that was hinted in one book they added last year. Sangiin might have a hand in the spread of Vampirism or creation. Because in the Khajiit religion he is literally the god of blood. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Worldly_Spirits

Also Daggerfall lore can't be considered accurate but I will use it as an example.Though since a lot of the lore was tossed out or rewritten from Arena and Daggerfall this can't be considered credible but I will link it anyways. Another method of acquiring Vampirism would be through magical artifacts or a curse placed on people by a wizard.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampires_of_the_Iliac_Bay

So nothing really is set into stone and that leaves them a lot of room to do stuff with it. We might not agree on it but well at least they are going to try to be more unique instead of using the same thing type of vampirism system that was used in Oblivion and Skyrim.

ShadowHvo

Thevampirenight wrote: »

So nothing really is set into stone and that leaves them a lot of room to do stuff with it. We might not agree on it but well at least they are going to try to be more unique instead the same thing seen in Oblivion and Skyrim.

Unique?

This new proposal is a borderline Underworld copy. It's not remotely unique. It's even all the closer to being a Volkihar ripoff with exception of the reversal of the stages function.

The current system is flawed and leaves much to be desired. Feeding animation and fangs included. There isn't a need to rework how the stages function, but the strengths and weaknesses that amplifies the more famished the vampire becomes. Again, duality, the monstrous vs the humane, risk vs reward.

ESO lacks this currently, and it will lack it too with this new proposed system, at least depending on the ranges that the Justice System is involved. It should've been involved in the justice system since its inception, but it wasn't, for odd reasons.

But that doesn't retract from the very unnecessary switcheroo they're doing with stages, aka the retcon of Noxiphilic sanguivoria.

Noxavian

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

So nothing really is set into stone and that leaves them a lot of room to do stuff with it. We might not agree on it but well at least they are going to try to be more unique instead the same thing seen in Oblivion and Skyrim.

Unique?

This new proposal is a borderline Underworld copy. It's not remotely unique. It's even all the closer to being a Volkihar ripoff with exception of the reversal of the stages function.

The current system is flawed and leaves much to be desired. Feeding animation and fangs included. There isn't a need to rework how the stages function, but the strengths and weaknesses that amplifies the more famished the vampire becomes. Again, duality, the monstrous vs the humane, risk vs reward.

ESO lacks this currently, and it will lack it too with this new proposed system, at least depending on the ranges that the Justice System is involved. It should've been involved in the justice system since its inception, but it wasn't, for odd reasons.

But that doesn't retract from the very unnecessary switcheroo they're doing with stages, aka the retcon of Noxiphilic sanguivoria.

they. Are. Not. Going. To change it for you and the 10 others on this thread that disagree with the changes.


Regardless of what they do, people will complain. They have literally 0 reason to not do their own thing here and to listen to you.

I don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this. You can argue all you want against the changes, but it won't matter. If anything, I've been greatly entertained by how much you think ZOS is going to listen to you.

I will also say again, on threads like these for every person that says "vampire feed bad" there will be at least 5 more that are like "vampire feed good".


(snip)

(edited for baiting)

Thevampirenight

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

So nothing really is set into stone and that leaves them a lot of room to do stuff with it. We might not agree on it but well at least they are going to try to be more unique instead the same thing seen in Oblivion and Skyrim.

Unique?

This new proposal is a borderline Underworld copy. It's not remotely unique. It's even all the closer to being a Volkihar ripoff with exception of the reversal of the stages function.

The current system is flawed and leaves much to be desired. Feeding animation and fangs included. There isn't a need to rework how the stages function, but the strengths and weaknesses that amplifies the more famished the vampire becomes. Again, duality, the monstrous vs the humane, risk vs reward.

ESO lacks this currently, and it will lack it too with this new proposed system, at least depending on the ranges that the Justice System is involved. It should've been involved in the justice system since its inception, but it wasn't, for odd reasons.

But that doesn't retract from the very unnecessary switcheroo they're doing with stages, aka the retcon of Noxiphilic sanguivoria.

Underworld Vampires are immortal beings altered by a mutation in the blood and after being bitten by a bat.Certain people if they drink the blood of pure immortals like Selene can become immune to sunlight or if they are descendants of those that became immortal those descendents could be given the ability to handle being both a vampire and lycanthrope at the same time and thus becoming Werepires. They can even be altered to have different effects or even become Hybrids Like Markus who drank werewolf blood at the end of the first movie and became a batlike vampire/werewolf hybrid because of it. Because Markus's Dna dna was more vampire and bat then wolf he ended up looking more vampire and bat type hybrid in his werepire form in Underworld Lore. Instead of Michael's More Wolf Like vampire/lycan hybrid form.

Though I do think Vampire lord is inspired by Underworld. But you got to understand Bethesda/Zenimax use a lot of real life geography and cultural influences. If they were to make them more like Underworld then we would be able to become werepires, or special types of Hybrids if vampires and werewolves were perhaps introduced with the right form of dna to allow it or certain types of blood needed to cause mutations.

This isn't Underworld and the stuff they are adding in is nothing like Underworld. TES Vampires and Werewolves don't seem to have such a feud like Underworld ones do. Though I do think they do take inspiration from several forms of vampire fiction Underworld included.
TES Vampires have yet to be shown to have the ability to give birth to live young like the Underworld Vampires can. Since Underworld Vampires can also be born and not just created through a bite.

ShadowHvo

Noxavian wrote: »

Regardless of what they do, people will complain. They have literally 0 reason to not do their own thing here and to listen to you.

They have a big reason, and its called the Elder Scrolls.

You may or may not care about it as much as I, but I'll continue giving Zenimax the feedback which I believe that they need.



Enjoy the show

Inhuman003

kargen27 wrote: »

I want vampires to look like this:



Or just don't fade the tattoos.

You talking some Vampirella

Sephyr

Noxavian wrote: »

I will also say again, on threads like these for every person that says "vampire feed bad" there will be at least 5 more that are like "vampire feed good".

This is the other thing that's selling me on it. Back in the IC days I'd 'feed' on enemy players to give them a good scare when they went afk. When they changed the stages to be more conditional I stopped because I was being punished for actually munching on an enemy which wasn't fun for me. But I guess that invalidates my other argument with RPers since I do more than just RP.

Noxavian

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Regardless of what they do, people will complain. They have literally 0 reason to not do their own thing here and to listen to you.

They have a big reason, and its called the Elder Scrolls.

You may or may not care about it as much as I, but I'll continue giving Zenimax the feedback which I believe that they need.



Enjoy the show

Ooh yeah, that's why the Necromancer class we got is so heavily inspired by The Elder Scrolls.

I will say this. If Necromancer is changed to be more like the "Elder Scrolls" necromancers, I will be fully on board with you wanting an "Elder scrolls" vampire.

If you get me? Honestly with the way Necro was handled it's made me quite spiteful towards this topic in general, as you can imagine my frustration. I was like you once, back when Necro came out I tried to argue the case that it doesn't feel like the necromancers we literally fight in game at all. But it was ignored.

Salix_alba

Just as long as they don't sparkle

Nerouyn

MornaBaine wrote: »

I am CAUTIOUSLY optimistic about the very briefly mentioned new abilities and I really hope the one whose name we don’t yet know is a gap closer like every NPC vamp in the game already has.

Isn't that the nightblade gap closer? Teleport Strike.

MornaBaine wrote: »

So we know that vampires will be getting some new abilities though we don’t yet have much in the way of info on what those are going to look like.

We don't know what the abilities will be but they did give a clear indication of their appearance.

More visceral.

Like the new feeding ability won't be waving your arms in the air with a wiggly magic snake between you and your victim.

You're gonna chomp down on their neck.

Salix_alba wrote: »

Just as long as they don't sparkle

Too late.

https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/opalescent-epidermis/

Anhedonie

I actually don't have any concerns about the vampire rework tbh. Right now it's basically a couple of passives. But after rework it's shaping up to be a functional skill line. Even if vampire is gonna be werewolf 2.0 I'll be content with it.
At least we get to see vampire dedicated builds.

MartiniDaniels

kargen27 wrote: »

I want vampires to look like this:

Or just don't fade the tattoos.

With Maormer skin they look exactly like that. And that skin doesn't hide tattoos

Tommy_The_Gun

My concerns:
1. They will over-buff them, and as a result vamps will be nerfed super hard in future updates.
2. One of the new skill will be copy-paste NB cloak (just like they did with Turn Evil skill). I guess no want wants cloaking wardens, nercos, templars or sorcs lol.
3. Judging by what we have seen in a trailer - they might also copy-paste streak. I guess no one wants to see streaking wardens, necros, templars or DKs lol.
4. With the whole new Vamp ulti & reversal feeding (you get more powerful the more you feed) - they may make them too similar to WW (Basically a magicka WW with different visuals).

Slimebrow

Honestly I think they will prob just slap a bunch of skills together that do not fit the skill line at all and some watered down visuals to go with them.

I know the final thing will most likely look and play like trash so if that does happen I will prob just end up leaving this game for good, right now just waiting see what the final thing will look like before making my decision.

Mr_Walker

It'll be stupid OP, 95/100 players in pvp will be vamps playing the same dumb skills, then get nerfed hard.

Naftal

I just want the ulti to be 100% optional and not required for anything else vampire related.

barney2525

I have no concerns

I don't worry about things I have no facts about yet.

ZaroktheImmortal

I'm mostly wondering what the changes will be and if it will actually be better than what we have now. Has vampire lord actually been confirmed for player characters? I know some players have asked for that one before. Hopefully whatever we end up with is an improvement.

Slimebrow

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

I'm mostly wondering what the changes will be and if it will actually be better than what we have now. Has vampire lord actually been confirmed for player characters? I know some players have asked for that one before. Hopefully whatever we end up with is an improvement.

Should see what they did to necromancers, i'm still laughing at them.

Thevampirenight

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

I'm mostly wondering what the changes will be and if it will actually be better than what we have now. Has vampire lord actually been confirmed for player characters? I know some players have asked for that one before. Hopefully whatever we end up with is an improvement.

Vampire lord is replacing Bat Swarm as the Ultimate. It will be known as a Blood Scion so Vampire Lords are actually going to be playable with Greymoor it has been confirmed. So yes Vampire Lords are coming.

Changes also coming is they will have a full skill line set plus have to feed to get to stage four instead of starving yourself to get to stage four. So You will have to actively feed to keep up stage four if you use to many vampire abilties they might take you back to stage one so you will have to keep on feeding to keep it up possibly but they might change it. So players can keep up their stage four's up. We won't know the full scale picture of all the vampire changes until they put the Grey Moor chapter on Pts.

Dr_Ganknstein

They better not touch the stealth passives.

MornaBaine

Thevampirenight wrote: »

[

Vampire lord is replacing Bat Swarm as the Ultimate. It will be known as a Blood Scion so Vampire Lords are actually going to be playable with Greymoor it has been confirmed. So yes Vampire Lords are coming.

If true that's very unfortunate. I'm cool with them ADDING what is basically a Volkihar but I had hoped they'd leave the bat ult for those who were happy with the Nox Sang Ult. If they're just using it to make a new skill and removing it as an UltI'm disappointed.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

[
Changes also coming is they will have a full skill line set plus have to feed to get to stage four instead of starving yourself to get to stage four. So You will have to actively feed to keep up stage four if you use to many vampire abilties they might take you back to stage one so you will have to keep on feeding to keep it up possibly but they might change it. So players can keep up their stage four's up. We won't know the full scale picture of all the vampire changes until they put the Grey Moor chapter on Pts.

Do we know if the vampire appearance associated with the various stages is going to change as well? Will stage 4, the "strongest" now LOOK like the current Stage one? I hope not!

MornaBaine

Not only does constant feeding to MAINTAIN Stage 4 run counter to the lore already established by this game itself (it'd be fine if this is a NEW strain of vampirism and not still considered to be Nox Sang...so long as Nox Sang ALSO still exists) but those of us who prefer the appearance of Stage one...but were looking forward to the new feeding animations we've been begging for... are going to be sad.

theyancey

I'm just afraid that my vamp will be turned into just as much of a disaster as my necro which I abandoned at lvl 41 because the class sucked so much.

Slimebrow

theyancey wrote: »

I'm just afraid that my vamp will be turned into just as much of a disaster as my necro which I abandoned at lvl 41 because the class sucked so much.

Pretty much what I'm expecting to happen here. I don't have any hopes it will get done properly.

Noxavian

MornaBaine wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

[

Vampire lord is replacing Bat Swarm as the Ultimate. It will be known as a Blood Scion so Vampire Lords are actually going to be playable with Greymoor it has been confirmed. So yes Vampire Lords are coming.

If true that's very unfortunate. I'm cool with them ADDING what is basically a Volkihar but I had hoped they'd leave the bat ult for those who were happy with the Nox Sang Ult. If they're just using it to make a new skill and removing it as an UltI'm disappointed.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

[
Changes also coming is they will have a full skill line set plus have to feed to get to stage four instead of starving yourself to get to stage four. So You will have to actively feed to keep up stage four if you use to many vampire abilties they might take you back to stage one so you will have to keep on feeding to keep it up possibly but they might change it. So players can keep up their stage four's up. We won't know the full scale picture of all the vampire changes until they put the Grey Moor chapter on Pts.

Do we know if the vampire appearance associated with the various stages is going to change as well? Will stage 4, the "strongest" now LOOK like the current Stage one? I hope not!

No stage 4 is going to look "ugly" and more vampiric.