Tested necromancer. Second WORST iteration of necromancer of my entire gaming life

xeNNNNN

This all boils down to how the calculations are done server side and whether or not their impact is worth the performance hit to the servers and in this instance considering the state of EU I would find it highly unlikely that the performance impact from extra individual calculations per player then added per "pet"/"casting body" would be worth it.

The reality is that in a solo environment yes absolutely they could of done so much better but in a multiplayer environment where the server needs to calculate damage sent and damage received on top of extra sources such as pets and such as well as general set procs and even set bonuses with their various impacts on the players build while simultaneously doing that for over 100 people per faction in cyrodil it would current mean the servers would die. The lag is already bad enough with our current set of calculations and the various classes that have either permanent or temporary pets we do not and would not need more. Not until the servers are in a better state.

L0rdV1ct0r

Kahnak wrote: »

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

What's wrong with the armor in this game?

Doesn't look like armor. Look more something that someone would wear in a Brazilian Carnival than actual armor

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

while the corpse mechanic is innovative i(...)

There are a lot of games with CORPSE mechanics

xaraan wrote: »

(...)
Frost mage is your favorite? Uhhh, who wants to tell him about Wardens?

He's not going to be happy.

Din't liked much and i would't pay a DLC only for the class. I prefer see the Morrowind location in Morrowind. I only play TESO to experience locations that i could only experience on Arena.

I only by looking to skill line, there aren't a SINGLE skill lice Ice Lance, Frost Wave, Ice Explosion, Hailstorm, Summon Golem, Time Bubble(...) that i could use on G3 https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Winter's+Embrace+Skills

Here is my G3 gameplay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VZ6J5xVWAQ

Anhedonie wrote: »

Necromancer is mechanically just reskinned Warden, so what else were you expecting...
Also, yes. New gen classes suck. If we ever get another class, I hope it will not follow 3-1 boring pattern.

Warden is also another awful class.

Ice spear/Ice Spike was one of the most popular Frost Destruction mage spells on Skyrim. Why ZERO spells like it?

"And here's another thing I hate about this game!"

Didn't you already say in another thread that you were going to skip this chapter? But you bought it anyway, and now you're complaining? Sounds like you should be playing something else.

I wasen't expecting a almost 70% discount. Only by it i picked the DLC. And purchased only by the new locaton. If i could play this new location with Morrowind mechanics, i would NEVER pay for this DLC.

Still sounds like you should be playing something else. Why would you play a DLC that you would never pay for and then get upset that it subverted your expectations?

What part of I LIKED AND PURCHASED FOR THE NEW MAP you din't understood?

xeNNNNN wrote: »

This all boils down to how the calculations are done server side and whether or not their impact is worth the performance hit to the servers and in this instance considering the state of EU I would find it highly unlikely that the performance impact from extra individual calculations per player then added per "pet"/"casting body" would be worth it.

The reality is that in a solo environment yes absolutely they could of done so much better but in a multiplayer environment where the server needs to calculate damage sent and damage received on top of extra sources such as pets and such as well as general set procs and even set bonuses with their various impacts on the players build while simultaneously doing that for over 100 people per faction in cyrodil it would current mean the servers would die. The lag is already bad enough with our current set of calculations and the various classes that have either permanent or temporary pets we do not and would not need more. Not until the servers are in a better state.

Except that other games managed to have reanimating necromancers.

Hell, Ultima Online(1997) managed to have necromancers that can reanimate literally ANY creature. Why this "modern game" can't do the same?

Keep in mind that a pet is no different than a perma DoT spell in "calculations"...

And note. PETs are one aspect of TESO who sucks. Curses and offensive spells are other big problem.

MartiniDaniels

I like stamcro. That lil wraith and argonian bowman are so adorable. Also I remember one stupid but cool book I read in youth where main hero was both necromancer and swordmaster. So in ESO you can build like that, without being pure mage.

Kiralyn2000

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

IMO Necromancers should have at least REANIMATE, ARMAGEDDON, TOXIC CLOUD, MOON RAY, MASS CURSE and DRAGON's BREATH, SHARPMETAL and FINGER OF DEATH.

Looking at that list (and descriptions) - Armageddon, Moon Ray, Shrapmetal don't say "Necromancer" to me at all. Dragon's Breath wouldn't either except that it's apparently Green dragon breath (poison not fire).

Moon Ray seems like a typical Druid thing (call the Moon's power to heal allies/harm enemies), not even "evil" magic let alone death magic.
Flying metal shrapnel? Armageddon? That's just typical DPS Wizard damage spells. As is Dragon Breath, unless you put "poison" in the Necromancy sphere (which, again, except for the fact that rotting corpses are a source of disease, I'm not sure why you'd associate Poison magic with Death magic.)


There seems to be some confusion here between "Necromancer" and just generic "Evil Wizard". /shrug

Kahnak

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I like stamcro. That lil wraith and argonian bowman are so adorable. Also I remember one stupid but cool book I read in youth where main hero was both necromancer and swordmaster. So in ESO you can build like that, without being pure mage.

Sounds like the Abhorsen trilogy. That's a good read.

NupidStoob

CAB_Life wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

They had to take into consideration the multiplayer aspect.

Just you with your army of skellies is fine, but multiply that by even 3 people and there is a problem.

I support your suggestion that necromancy should bring up other ways of finishing quests or at the very least cause different npc dialogue.

I’m guessing you’re not familiar with the sorc “zookeeper” builds we have in abundance these days?

"Abundance" I see that stuff once every couple months. Furthermore the existence of it is actually an argument why it's good that Necromancer doesn't have it rather why they should as it's super annoying for anyone who plays with or against you.

L0rdV1ct0r

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

[
There seems to be some confusion here between "Necromancer" and just generic "Evil Wizard". /shrug

The magic school in the game is called Dark Magic, not necromancy. But Dark Magic is often associated to Necromancers. On Gothic universe, Fire Mages are the most close to Clerics, Water Mages to Druids and Dark Mages to Warlocks and Necromancers.

There are nothing with "dark magic" having little of necromancy on it. The problem is when you call someone who never uses necromancy(command the dead) a necromancer. Imagine if they launch a pyromancer class that only uses frost skills .That would be equally silly.

That said, TESO ""necromancer"" is more close to a "bonemancer" than to a actual necromancer.

Nerouyn

I've always said they were mad for not having perma pets.

a) Because that's the norm for necromancers in pretty much every game and

b) Skyrim has them.

That said, I think necromancers are incredibly well designed and fun to play.

I love that so many of their abilities are multi-function. That offers necromancers much more variety in gameplay than any other class and means that most of their abilities can be useful regardless of which role you're currently playing.

MORE OF THIS PLEASE!!!!!!!

eg. I have been playing my necros recently and at one point, smacked myself in the head (figuratively speaking) and suddenly realized necromancers have a tank pet.

I had been feeling very hit-too-much. Especially since I've spent most of my time playing sorc or warden. Then I remembered that fear had been changed from make-them-flee to make-them-cower.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Bone_Totem

It just sucks that bosses can't be feared. I haven't noticed that bosses especially attack it either. But if it taunted as well as feared then that would fix it.

L0rdV1ct0r

Nerouyn Imagine if they launch a pyromancer class that can do all type of things, with smoke, can produce poison/toxic poison, can heal with smoke, CC with smoke, tank with smoke, damage with smoke but can't create/control fires except by a small tiny flame that only worth to be used to produce more smoke. Is this a pyromancer?

Nerouyn

L0rdV1ct0r that's a totally disingenuous disingenuous analogy.

If you're not already one, consider a career as a journalist. You could do well there.

As I very clearly said, I think ZO are mad for not giving necro perma pets.

But thematically there's nothing wrong with them. They've got death coming out of and probably also going into every orifice.

That's why I probably won't end up playing mine seriously. Too ghoulish for my tastes.

kaisernick

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

The difference is that WoW is actually pretty well polished performance-wise, while ESO has a potato netcode that lags like crazy, especially the EU server where it has issues all the time.

WAS well polished, if you have seen the last patch it makes 76 look well designed.

But to the OP Necro is good but i think needs a few changes just to make it work, i definatly would not want perma pets, i dont use them on scorc and i only use bear on my healer if necro had been focued on pets being permi i would not have made one let alone two.

Kendaric

Nerouyn wrote: »

I've always said they were mad for not having perma pets.

a) Because that's the norm for necromancers in pretty much every game and

b) Skyrim has them.

That said, I think necromancers are incredibly well designed and fun to play.

I love that so many of their abilities are multi-function. That offers necromancers much more variety in gameplay than any other class and means that most of their abilities can be useful regardless of which role you're currently playing.

MORE OF THIS PLEASE!!!!!!!

eg. I have been playing my necros recently and at one point, smacked myself in the head (figuratively speaking) and suddenly realized necromancers have a tank pet.

I had been feeling very hit-too-much. Especially since I've spent most of my time playing sorc or warden. Then I remembered that fear had been changed from make-them-flee to make-them-cower.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Bone_Totem

It just sucks that bosses can't be feared. I haven't noticed that bosses especially attack it either. But if it taunted as well as feared then that would fix it.

A permanent pet wouldn't even be necessary.... just some more short term summons (skeletons, zombies) would be perfectly fine. Place a curse upon an enemy and if that enemy dies while the curse is in effect, summon a skeleton/zombie/ghost/wraith that fights for you for x seconds for example.
That would feel a lot more appopriate for necromancer than lobbing a flaming skull or summoning a skeletal suicide bomber...

xeNNNNN

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

What's wrong with the armor in this game?

Doesn't look like armor. Look more something that someone would wear in a Brazilian Carnival than actual armor

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

while the corpse mechanic is innovative i(...)

There are a lot of games with CORPSE mechanics

xaraan wrote: »

(...)
Frost mage is your favorite? Uhhh, who wants to tell him about Wardens?

He's not going to be happy.

Din't liked much and i would't pay a DLC only for the class. I prefer see the Morrowind location in Morrowind. I only play TESO to experience locations that i could only experience on Arena.

I only by looking to skill line, there aren't a SINGLE skill lice Ice Lance, Frost Wave, Ice Explosion, Hailstorm, Summon Golem, Time Bubble(...) that i could use on G3 https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Winter's+Embrace+Skills

Here is my G3 gameplay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VZ6J5xVWAQ

Anhedonie wrote: »

Necromancer is mechanically just reskinned Warden, so what else were you expecting...
Also, yes. New gen classes suck. If we ever get another class, I hope it will not follow 3-1 boring pattern.

Warden is also another awful class.

Ice spear/Ice Spike was one of the most popular Frost Destruction mage spells on Skyrim. Why ZERO spells like it?

"And here's another thing I hate about this game!"

Didn't you already say in another thread that you were going to skip this chapter? But you bought it anyway, and now you're complaining? Sounds like you should be playing something else.

I wasen't expecting a almost 70% discount. Only by it i picked the DLC. And purchased only by the new locaton. If i could play this new location with Morrowind mechanics, i would NEVER pay for this DLC.

Still sounds like you should be playing something else. Why would you play a DLC that you would never pay for and then get upset that it subverted your expectations?

What part of I LIKED AND PURCHASED FOR THE NEW MAP you din't understood?

xeNNNNN wrote: »

This all boils down to how the calculations are done server side and whether or not their impact is worth the performance hit to the servers and in this instance considering the state of EU I would find it highly unlikely that the performance impact from extra individual calculations per player then added per "pet"/"casting body" would be worth it.

The reality is that in a solo environment yes absolutely they could of done so much better but in a multiplayer environment where the server needs to calculate damage sent and damage received on top of extra sources such as pets and such as well as general set procs and even set bonuses with their various impacts on the players build while simultaneously doing that for over 100 people per faction in cyrodil it would current mean the servers would die. The lag is already bad enough with our current set of calculations and the various classes that have either permanent or temporary pets we do not and would not need more. Not until the servers are in a better state.

Except that other games managed to have reanimating necromancers.

Hell, Ultima Online(1997) managed to have necromancers that can reanimate literally ANY creature. Why this "modern game" can't do the same?

Keep in mind that a pet is no different than a perma DoT spell in "calculations"...

And note. PETs are one aspect of TESO who sucks. Curses and offensive spells are other big problem.

All of that is true, but you must remember that this game is already unstable due to the EU servers in frankfurt being as horrifically bad as they are (thats what ZoS gets for being cheap instead of putting their money where their mouth is and relocating to the netherlands).

The other thing is that this engine that ESO uses is quite literally a cannibalised HERO engine one of the worst engines the industry has had in previous years. Unfit for even some singleplayer games let alone MMOs. ZoS has always claimed they built their engine from the ground up from the hero engine. This is incorrect and frankly not possible in the space and time they claimed they did so without leaving significant and quite frankly glaring remains of the old engine intertwined with the rest of the new code. This makes the "calculations" argument all that more important because there is a lot they've restricted themselves from by going down the development route they have.

Sephyr

Nerouyn wrote: »

I've always said they were mad for not having perma pets.

a) Because that's the norm for necromancers in pretty much every game and

b) Skyrim has them.

That said, I think necromancers are incredibly well designed and fun to play.

I love that so many of their abilities are multi-function. That offers necromancers much more variety in gameplay than any other class and means that most of their abilities can be useful regardless of which role you're currently playing.

MORE OF THIS PLEASE!!!!!!!

eg. I have been playing my necros recently and at one point, smacked myself in the head (figuratively speaking) and suddenly realized necromancers have a tank pet.

All of this. The versatility alone quickly made it one of my favorite classes and even made me shelve my sorc completely and is pending deletion and put my NB on the backburner as it's not as fun to play.

L0rdV1ct0r

Nerouyn wrote: »

L0rdV1ct0r that's a totally disingenuous disingenuous analogy.

If you're not already one, consider a career as a journalist. You could do well there.

As I very clearly said, I think ZO are mad for not giving necro perma pets.

But thematically there's nothing wrong with them. They've got death coming out of and probably also going into every orifice.

That's why I probably won't end up playing mine seriously. Too ghoulish for my tastes.

1 - I an not alone. Almost 30 people marked "agree" on my first post
2 - Is not a disingenuous analogy.

Pyromancy -> Create & Control & Command flames
Necromancer -> Create & Control & Command the (un)death

The example with "smoke" is exactly what happens to TESO. Necromancers can only control and command bones.

Look to Dark Souls 2. Hexers create * control & command DARKNESS, if they called Hexers as "necromancers" would be bad. Or if they called pyromancers elementarists.

karekiz

Best class. No other class flips my character around during parsing because LoS logic.

Sevalaricgirl

max_only wrote: »

They had to take into consideration the multiplayer aspect.

Just you with your army of skellies is fine, but multiply that by even 3 people and there is a problem.

I support your suggestion that necromancy should bring up other ways of finishing quests or at the very least cause different npc dialogue.

Pfft, they can't even write script and code for Khajiits to be recognized as Khajiits in their own home land how are they going to figure out how to create a necromancer properly.

Kiralyn2000

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

Necromancer -> Create & Control & Command the (un)death.

Right. So where does "poison" keep coming from in a lot of your examples?

Healing? Sure, it's playing with life energy (adding it to someone, rather than taking it away - healing spells got added to the Necromancy realm in D&D awhile ago.)
Making undead, suppressing life force, draining energy, etc? Again, sure - life energy.

Poison?
Throwing metal spikes?
Playing with moonlight? (Banishing the darkness - i.e, good, not evil. Not 'death' either.)
Doesn't seem to fit.

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

IMO Necromancers should have at least REANIMATE, ARMAGEDDON, TOXIC CLOUD, MOON RAY, MASS CURSE and DRAGON's BREATH, SHARPMETAL and FINGER OF DEATH.

SirMewser

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

One big problem not only for necromancer but for everything on ESO is the "carnavalesque" armor.

Example? Those are necromancers on daggerfall (King of worms and a guard)


And this are necromancers on ESO.




Visual aside. only Dragon Age Inquisition managed to create a worst type of necromancy. The games with the best necromancy IMO are : Arcanum (You can even talk with spirits to solve quests in a different way, can animate corpses, etc), Diablo 2(can use nasty curses, reanimate enemies, etc) and Might & Magic 8 - Day of the destroyer(can become a lich, put enemies under nasty curses, reanimate enemies, etc). Among the mmo genre, Ultima online has the best necromancy followed by Age of Conan. I don't consider AoC necromancer a top tier iteration due the high amount of cooldowns and "Wow clonification" of the game. Still much better than 99,9% of mmos.

But looks to ESO.

1. Even SORCERER has more curses than the necromancer and still only one curse
2. Sorcerer also has more perma pets
3. Necromancy is not lore friendly. Conjuration on Skyrim allow you to reanimate corpses and the strength of the corpse that you can reanimate varies with perks and the spell. On ESO, most skills that should consume corpses are in fact generating corpses(eg - skeleton mage)
4. This skills that generate corpses, there are ZERO reason to why bone armor would generate a corpse after few seconds.
5. And all corpses felt the same, is not like D2 where the corpse explosion scales with corpse hp.
6. There are no progression on anything "non damage" related. Instead of starting the game with a single weak skeleton and ending with an horde, you always can summon a temporary skeleton mage or suicide skeleton

I confess that it was a HUGE disappointment for me. Necromancer is my second favorite mage type on fantasy RPG's, losing only to the Frost/Water mage. And IMO Gothic 3 has the best water mage. G3 also adopted the "only one summon limit" thing that i hate(except for army of darkness dark magic spell)

One of the biggest problems that i have with 99,9% of mmos(ESO included) is that game mechanics are completely dissociated from the game lore/worldbuilding and class fantasies. The necromancer class doesn't looks like a necromancer that i would see in a novel, movie, etc. Looks like a generic "tank", generic "dps" and generic "healer"... No, i was not expecting a in deph necromancy, where you can learn some type of "daedric" language and can learn all types of dark magic, insta kill enemies who fail a save, use complex reagent to customize your pets and etc But i was expecting at least something more akin to Age of Conan.

Exactly what I said during pts...
People told me to shut up and die, but here we are almost a year later. I no longer feel alone! 😺

Nanfoodle

EQ1 I had a Dark Elf Necro as my main. Every time I try it done in any other MMO it has paled in comparison.

MartiniDaniels

Kahnak wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I like stamcro. That lil wraith and argonian bowman are so adorable. Also I remember one stupid but cool book I read in youth where main hero was both necromancer and swordmaster. So in ESO you can build like that, without being pure mage.

Sounds like the Abhorsen trilogy. That's a good read.

Nah, I'll never call Abhorsen stupid. That was regional book series, not that bad though, combat was described wonderfully. He was always relying on melee proficiency and used necromancy only if there were no other choice but if used, impact was massive like destroyed cities and so on

L0rdV1ct0r

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

[
Poison?
Throwing metal spikes?
Playing with moonlight? (Banishing the darkness - i.e, good, not evil. Not 'death' either.)
Doesn't seem to fit.

This are examples of DARK MAGIC, not necromancy. M&M VIII had a dedicated necromancer. And you can even become Lich in the game and it gives immunity to body/spirit magic, allow you to train "regeneration" and do all type of cool stuff, including taking control over enemy undead...

Look to Diablo's 2 necromancer. He had poison, bone, curses and minions. TESO has bones.

Dark Mages on Gothic 3 are far more "necromantic like" with all lightning and demon conjuring than TESO """necromancer""""

About sharpmetal, my interpretation is that the necromancer imbues a small part of metal with a quick "unliving energy", making it spin and "fly". Moon ray is the power of the night that in the game is opposite to the power of the day(Clerics of the Sun & Necromancers on M&M VIII are in a bloddy war)

Poison is a way to kill preserving corpses to be used, same with cold so a necromancer training to be able to poison his enemies makes much more sense than flaming skulls.

And on strategy games, necromancers are so OP that people meme with it

Michaelkeir

I'll co-sign with you OP. I fully understand you and others like you. I was excited when I heard necromancers where coming to ESO. More so because I originally came to this game thinking that the necromancer class would be in it from the start. Disappointed that they weren't I decided to create necromancer like characters. (Pet spec and Magic Night-blade) and I main-ed these two for years until we actually got necros.

I love my necromancer but it is solely lacking as most of you agree. My main gripes with the class are as follows:

-No melee pet.
I mean necromancers are mages. Mages are mostly ranged fighters. Why would a ranged mage summon a ranged minion? They would summon a melee minion to rush their foe while they flung spells from afar or better why not summon a ranged and melee minion.

-No zombie pet.
This is a small gripe but one none the less. Necromancers summon both skeletons and zombies. In game necromancers can and it's in the in game lore too.

-Blast bone???
The idea of blast-bones is stupid to me. A skeleton that explodes??? Why not a zombie? Why not have a bloated zombie rush and explode and leave a pool of aoe poison on the ground. Makes more sense.

-Tethers/siphons
Tethers are a neat concept but it fails in my eyes due to wonky targeting and line of sight issues. Instead it should be a tether that attaches to your pet enhancing their attacks some way. Or another one to attach to an enemy to sap their health and return it to you the caster as a heal or as a small aoe heal around the caster.

-Death Scythe???
This doesn't even seem to fit in game necromancers or in game lore. Replace it with something else....curses.

-Graveyard???
Simple fix. Take out the tombstones and add small skeletal hands grasping up from the group.

-Curses/Dots/Poisons
Curses and poisons are known necromancer tools. Yet we don't really have natural in class dots. The Soul magic skill Soul Trap dot is what I use to use personally just to fill that gap and it sort of seems like it belongs to the class honestly.

-No true Ultimate summon.
Bone Goliath and Flesh Colossus are not really summons. The devs tried to be different with these and failed in my eyes. Bone Goliath would better be served as a summon. It fits the lore and plenty of necromancers in game use it. The Flesh Colossus is in the same vein. Both would've made awesome skills to be seen and it was what I was most looking forward too.

-Spirit Mender?
A ghost that heals? Never heard of that before in Elder Scrolls. I would change this to a Spirit that fears or places a dot or curse on a target or targets. Similarly to the way necromancers do currently in game.

Noxavian

Michaelkeir wrote: »

I'll co-sign with you OP. I fully understand you and others like you. I was excited when I heard necromancers where coming to ESO. More so because I originally came to this game thinking that the necromancer class would be in it from the start. Disappointed that they weren't I decided to create necromancer like characters. (Pet spec and Magic Night-blade) and I main-ed these two for years until we actually got necros.

I love my necromancer but it is solely lacking as most of you agree. My main gripes with the class are as follows:

-No melee pet.
I mean necromancers are mages. Mages are mostly ranged fighters. Why would a ranged mage summon a ranged minion? They would summon a melee minion to rush their foe while they flung spells from afar or better why not summon a ranged and melee minion.

-No zombie pet.
This is a small gripe but one none the less. Necromancers summon both skeletons and zombies. In game necromancers can and it's in the in game lore too.

-Blast bone???
The idea of blast-bones is stupid to me. A skeleton that explodes??? Why not a zombie? Why not have a bloated zombie rush and explode and leave a pool of aoe poison on the ground. Makes more sense.

-Tethers/siphons
Tethers are a neat concept but it fails in my eyes due to wonky targeting and line of sight issues. Instead it should be a tether that attaches to your pet enhancing their attacks some way. Or another one to attach to an enemy to sap their health and return it to you the caster as a heal or as a small aoe heal around the caster.

-Death Scythe???
This doesn't even seem to fit in game necromancers or in game lore. Replace it with something else....curses.

-Graveyard???
Simple fix. Take out the tombstones and add small skeletal hands grasping up from the group.

-Curses/Dots/Poisons
Curses and poisons are known necromancer tools. Yet we don't really have natural in class dots. The Soul magic skill Soul Trap dot is what I use to use personally just to fill that gap and it sort of seems like it belongs to the class honestly.

-No true Ultimate summon.
Bone Goliath and Flesh Colossus are not really summons. The devs tried to be different with these and failed in my eyes. Bone Goliath would better be served as a summon. It fits the lore and plenty of necromancers in game use it. The Flesh Colossus is in the same vein. Both would've made awesome skills to be seen and it was what I was most looking forward too.

-Spirit Mender?
A ghost that heals? Never heard of that before in Elder Scrolls. I would change this to a Spirit that fears or places a dot or curse on a target or targets. Similarly to the way necromancers do currently in game.

NOW THIS is the post I needed. My main gripes line up perfectly with yours, my man. I especially hate how tethers and the death scythe works. I find it funny that they didn't make tethers latch onto your summons or cause them to raise the corpse they're siphoning from as a creature and instead of "siphoning life from the corpse" it could be re-worded to "animating" a corpse. WAIT that could be so cool. Imagine if the tethers animated the corpse that they were tethered to, essentially causing them to follow you around on little leashes for the 12 second duration.

@CAB_Life I also feel like you'd enjoy this dude's response.

Commancho

Around 90% of abilities in this game are same if you haven't noticed.

Typical PVE DD's rotation:
backbar:
- buff, buff, aoe dot, aoe dot, aoe dot
front bar:
- 5x spam direct damage ability

Then we have exactly same buffs and debuffs (for example major ward) with diffrent visuals.
Meta gear is same too, because proc damage sets are garbage.

In the other words - you choose your class for passives.
Things are completly diffrent in PVP though...

Faulgor

Why do people keep talking about necromancers in other games and franchises? This is The Elder Scrolls.
If ESO's necro lacks anything thematically, it's a reference of some kind or use of Black Soul Gems or Lichdom. But otherwise they are just fine, as fitting as they can be without being a Sorcerer-clone, which is what many people apparently want?

Noxavian

Faulgor wrote: »

Why do people keep talking about necromancers in other games and franchises? This is The Elder Scrolls.
If ESO's necro lacks anything thematically, it's a reference of some kind or use of Black Soul Gems or Lichdom. But otherwise they are just fine, as fitting as they can be without being a Sorcerer-clone, which is what many people apparently want?

How is ESO's necromancer fine? Like, literally the NPCs we fight *in this game* in "elder scrolls" can summon multiple skeletons, zombies, etc.

Why can't we do that as players? Don't you get that it's about wanting to be an "Elder Scrolls" necromancer, that's the point.

The thing is that the CURRENT Necromancer isn't even that. No, they absolutely are not just fine. Pets doesn't equal sorcerer clone.... Lol. I would argue right now it shares more similarities to sorcerers than it would if it could summon one or two more pets that are unique to the necromancer playstyle.

Going back to my original point, surely you couldn't of missed the part where people are talking about necros from *this* franchise right....? From /this/ game right? You know, the npcs that you see just wandering around with skeletal guards....or the ability to raise zombies and buff them....or summon a flesh atronach...

Toanis

Mechanics-wise we already have two classes with permanent pets, so let's look at the roleplay aspect.

Undead stink, they're slow and offensive to everyone you meet. A necromancer with permanent pets won't work for an adventuring player character that speaks with people and is friends with the rulers of their faction.

What then? It's necromancer, someone who uses the dead to work magic. Just like a pyromancer may summon fire-entities, it's not the only thing they do. Where other spellcasters seek understanding and power over nature or the forces of the cosmos, necromancers generally seek power over life and dead, especially their own, because for them that is the only power that counts - if you die one day, all other power and knowledge you have will be meaningless.

The ability to raise the dead comes with the territory, and since that's very disturbing to most people, they never look deeper into what the necromancer does and can do. So most necromancer NPCs are just corpse herders, sitting in a cemetery and sending their undead against the city. That won't work for a PC, or an important NPC. We all know that the most famous necromancer in TES history is more enamoured with the idea of becoming a god than the master of an undead horde.


So ability wise, I'm fine with PC necromancers drawing power from dead, be it as tether or to quickly generate ultimate. While I agree that the undead sumoning abilities are a bit clunky, I'm not sure how they could be made better.

Just making the same ghost or skeleton spawn from a corpse would be cool against humanoids but wouldn't look any better in a fight against non-humanoid creatures, and being able to raise undead versions of any dead creature would make the result unreliable, the undead could be OP or completely useless, and boss fight without adds would need to be revised, or at least some corpses placed around them. And what about PVP? When the necro raises your corpse will you be forced to fight for their alliance? Will you lie there as a heap of gore, unable to release or be revived until your skeleton is slain?

XomRhoK

Michaelkeir wrote: »

I'll co-sign with you OP. I fully understand you and others like you. I was excited when I heard necromancers where coming to ESO. More so because I originally came to this game thinking that the necromancer class would be in it from the start. Disappointed that they weren't I decided to create necromancer like characters. (Pet spec and Magic Night-blade) and I main-ed these two for years until we actually got necros.

I love my necromancer but it is solely lacking as most of you agree. My main gripes with the class are as follows:

-No melee pet.
I mean necromancers are mages. Mages are mostly ranged fighters. Why would a ranged mage summon a ranged minion? They would summon a melee minion to rush their foe while they flung spells from afar or better why not summon a ranged and melee minion.

-No zombie pet.
This is a small gripe but one none the less. Necromancers summon both skeletons and zombies. In game necromancers can and it's in the in game lore too.

-Blast bone???
The idea of blast-bones is stupid to me. A skeleton that explodes??? Why not a zombie? Why not have a bloated zombie rush and explode and leave a pool of aoe poison on the ground. Makes more sense.

-Tethers/siphons
Tethers are a neat concept but it fails in my eyes due to wonky targeting and line of sight issues. Instead it should be a tether that attaches to your pet enhancing their attacks some way. Or another one to attach to an enemy to sap their health and return it to you the caster as a heal or as a small aoe heal around the caster.

-Death Scythe???
This doesn't even seem to fit in game necromancers or in game lore. Replace it with something else....curses.

-Graveyard???
Simple fix. Take out the tombstones and add small skeletal hands grasping up from the group.

-Curses/Dots/Poisons
Curses and poisons are known necromancer tools. Yet we don't really have natural in class dots. The Soul magic skill Soul Trap dot is what I use to use personally just to fill that gap and it sort of seems like it belongs to the class honestly.

-No true Ultimate summon.
Bone Goliath and Flesh Colossus are not really summons. The devs tried to be different with these and failed in my eyes. Bone Goliath would better be served as a summon. It fits the lore and plenty of necromancers in game use it. The Flesh Colossus is in the same vein. Both would've made awesome skills to be seen and it was what I was most looking forward too.

-Spirit Mender?
A ghost that heals? Never heard of that before in Elder Scrolls. I would change this to a Spirit that fears or places a dot or curse on a target or targets. Similarly to the way necromancers do currently in game.

I have, in my opinion, perfect suggestion, that can help with problems of lack of summons and lack of melee summon, without redoing skills for necromancers. The only thing needed to be redone is the synergy of Avid Boneyard, it must be replaced for summoning melee skeleton/zombie, with same rules as skeletal mage/archer. This synergy can scale from highest stat, for example, skeleton with sword in fire or with frost, can fit both magicka and stamina feel. This synergy can be activated by necromancer himself, so if you want more summons you can go for that morph.

Agree on Scythe skill, totaly out of place, from ESO lore and visual sides. Animation looks so cheap. I'd prefer it were fully spectral or if physical, then more elegant and/or brutal.

Agree with Boneyard visuals, tomb stones out of nowhere look silly, better excavated graves or hands from ground. Also agree with the point that Boneyard must generate corpses, not consume them.

Dislike how Colossus ult looks, think that temporary Flesh atronach(maybe not exact copy of that currently in game) would be much better ult for that skill line. He could perform same function as Major Vulnerability debuffer, with single/AoE hits, or periodical splashes around him, or desecrated ground. Again it can be one of the morphs of Colossus ult that curently in game.

Anhedonie

Faulgor wrote: »

Why do people keep talking about necromancers in other games and franchises? This is The Elder Scrolls.
If ESO's necro lacks anything thematically, it's a reference of some kind or use of Black Soul Gems or Lichdom. But otherwise they are just fine, as fitting as they can be without being a Sorcerer-clone, which is what many people apparently want?

No idea. People also say that dragons in teso are wyverns, but teso doesn't have the concept of wyverns in the first place. What can you do.

And I agree on not wanting a sorcerer clone. But at the same time, in terms of mechanics necro is not just a warden clone, it's a warden reskin. And that's kinda bugs me as well. I wish there was something more interesting, some new mechanics we don't have yet. And maybe less stiffness and clunky abilities as well.