Please give NB a viable defensive PvP alternative to cloak. Or give us our burst back.

Solariken

iCaliban wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Buff dark cloak. Push players away from the gank playstyle.

Spoken like a true sorc XD

This is the problem with these forums. Someone posts something actually in support of the general premise of the post and fools insult them.

Cloak is useless in group play which is most pvp. Buffing the morph that allows nb to actually help their teammates rather be parasitic cowards hiding in stealth would be good.

Ps: I have 2 nightblades.

Also I am of the strong opinion that the group-play role of a stamblade should be to hard counter and bring down enemy healers (you know, assassinate them). It would be awesome if they gave Incap that hard silence they had on last PTS in addition to Major Defile back (and dump the Reave mechanic)

Iskiab

Solariken wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Buff dark cloak. Push players away from the gank playstyle.

Spoken like a true sorc XD

This is the problem with these forums. Someone posts something actually in support of the general premise of the post and fools insult them.

Cloak is useless in group play which is most pvp. Buffing the morph that allows nb to actually help their teammates rather be parasitic cowards hiding in stealth would be good.

Ps: I have 2 nightblades.

Also I am of the strong opinion that the group-play role of a stamblade should be to hard counter and bring down enemy healers (you know, assassinate them). It would be awesome if they gave Incap that hard silence they had on last PTS in addition to Major Defile back (and dump the Reave mechanic)

Yea, or to get those pure glass magsorcs in cyrodiil who just kite and rely on high damage to blow everyone up before they can close. Guess who will cry their heads off if that happens though.

Pure glass magsorcs being viable should be proof enough NBs have been over nerfed.

Nyladreas

iCaliban wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Buff dark cloak. Push players away from the gank playstyle.

Spoken like a true sorc XD

This is the problem with these forums. Someone posts something actually in support of the general premise of the post and fools insult them.

Cloak is useless in group play which is most pvp. Buffing the morph that allows nb to actually help their teammates rather be parasitic cowards hiding in stealth would be good.

Ps: I have 2 nightblades.

ANOTHER GOOD POINT I FORGOT TO ADD!

Group play on NB feels sooooo crappy and bad, and half the time you feel extremely useless.

kaithuzar

Nyladreas wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Buff dark cloak. Push players away from the gank playstyle.

Spoken like a true sorc XD

This is the problem with these forums. Someone posts something actually in support of the general premise of the post and fools insult them.

Cloak is useless in group play which is most pvp. Buffing the morph that allows nb to actually help their teammates rather be parasitic cowards hiding in stealth would be good.

Ps: I have 2 nightblades.

ANOTHER GOOD POINT I FORGOT TO ADD!

Group play on NB feels sooooo crappy and bad, and half the time you feel extremely useless.

I don’t think I’m completely useless, just heavily under tuned.
I can still fear, sap doesn’t do much but I still use it, I Destro ult which occasionally has success. I try to take opponents health down small fractions with swallow soul weave.
Maybe it’s pretty useless, but I try.

iCaliban

Solariken wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Buff dark cloak. Push players away from the gank playstyle.

Spoken like a true sorc XD

This is the problem with these forums. Someone posts something actually in support of the general premise of the post and fools insult them.

Cloak is useless in group play which is most pvp. Buffing the morph that allows nb to actually help their teammates rather be parasitic cowards hiding in stealth would be good.

Ps: I have 2 nightblades.

Haha why do so many people phrase it this way? It's THE guerilla class, literally how it was designed and intended to play. They would be stronger in group play if their single target power was more deadly than other classes, which it's not by a long shot.

Im talking about the players who sit in stealth all day waiting to snipe. Most dont play the class like you do

killingspreeb16_ESO

iCaliban wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Buff dark cloak. Push players away from the gank playstyle.

Spoken like a true sorc XD

This is the problem with these forums. Someone posts something actually in support of the general premise of the post and fools insult them.

Cloak is useless in group play which is most pvp. Buffing the morph that allows nb to actually help their teammates rather be parasitic cowards hiding in stealth would be good.

Ps: I have 2 nightblades.

Talk about insult and later call people fool,parasitic coward for playing a playstyle he don't enjoy.

The irony.

Nyladreas

kaithuzar wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Buff dark cloak. Push players away from the gank playstyle.

Spoken like a true sorc XD

This is the problem with these forums. Someone posts something actually in support of the general premise of the post and fools insult them.

Cloak is useless in group play which is most pvp. Buffing the morph that allows nb to actually help their teammates rather be parasitic cowards hiding in stealth would be good.

Ps: I have 2 nightblades.

ANOTHER GOOD POINT I FORGOT TO ADD!

Group play on NB feels sooooo crappy and bad, and half the time you feel extremely useless.

I don’t think I’m completely useless, just heavily under tuned.
I can still fear, sap doesn’t do much but I still use it, I Destro ult which occasionally has success. I try to take opponents health down small fractions with swallow soul weave.
Maybe it’s pretty useless, but I try.

I try too believe me my nightblade brother/sister... I try too And I cry. A bit. Well, a little. Some. Actually all the time.

Czekoludek

I think at this point they should just change cloak to do something completely different and massively buff the class. NB is hated because of cloak and I think until we have invisibility (that is useless most of the time but still many ppl live in 2018 and say it is OP), class will be garbage. Because that is NB indentity for last year: a garbage. Class healing is bad, class burst is bad, sustain is mediocre and our mitigation, the only good aspect of assassin class (wtf) is good only for PvE tank or PvP unkillable tanky builds that cannot kill anyone.

Metemsycosis

Id prefer speed and burst returned. And also a dark cloak change since that would support more stand your ground style.

I like the tools present, had to revisit the magicka version again as I abandoned it.

But I want to see more synergy among the various play styles, even the "recommended" ones. A magicka brawler either crutches on cloak in melee or strong self healing but it is hard to do both. A ranged destro-self healer with cloak is op so it's trickier to balance than maybe meets the eye.

For stamblade im sick over the change to off balance as eternal hunt plus truth (and exploiter passive) has been scoring me many many solo kills but that's not class related per se.

Hotdog_23

Unfortunately, NB where very strong at one time and ZOS needed to nerf them some and went to far. NB skills are a mess right now. Sure, a good player can still totally wreak someone with it but the same can be said of the same good playing on a different class. I wish they would just rebuild the class skills but if they did the forums would be in an uproar about it. Cloak is the main problem I feel. Either very strong or a hinderance to the class.

Metemsycosis

Exactly. Experience in the game on a class will account for something. But new players " out of the box" shouldn't feel this much grief to be successful in PvP.

Nyladreas

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Unfortunately, NB where very strong at one time and ZOS needed to nerf them some and went to far. NB skills are a mess right now. Sure, a good player can still totally wreak someone with it but the same can be said of the same good playing on a different class. I wish they would just rebuild the class skills but if they did the forums would be in an uproar about it. Cloak is the main problem I feel. Either very strong or a hinderance to the class.

Bolded well said!!!

LukosCreyden

So... is this a bad time to try out Magblade for a PvP build? Always liked that "Blood Mage" aesthetic...

Marcus_Thracius

Still can play it as a ganker. Either mag or stam are viable - very hard to master and specific sets needed true but playable even with the nerfs. Its not what it used to be and thats just sad.
Healer/support troll yeah why not but imo its not fun .
frankly at this stage I dont care anymore till then next vamp dlc .
Just play it casual now - not worth it to get pissed imo

Kelces

NB's are not about open combat, you can only survive well by running and "jumping" around with the shadow image - quick movement above all else. That's their best defense in my PvP experience. If you master that, you can have a lot of fun with it.

Cloak in group play can actually be fun too, especially if you are luring players away from somewhere. I had quite some fun, not sure what your issues are with it. I don't see a problem there at all, just a matter of practice...

iJuacob

They already ruined our most offensive ability and gave it defence (bow), like honestly just ask for more offensive

iJuacob

LukosCreyden wrote: »

So... is this a bad time to try out Magblade for a PvP build? Always liked that "Blood Mage" aesthetic...

It's really hard learning curve and even then you have many more classes which are easier and perform better. You can use vamp drain and suck your enemies blood lol. It's a really popular skill lately which works good with tankiness

Qbiken

Start by removing cast time on incap/soul harvest and then remove or reduce the minimal travel time on the bow proc. Those two changes alone will put nightblade in a much more decent spot.

JinxxND

All the ults need the cast time removed or to be shortened by a lot, no other class was hit as hard as nb with cast time on ults, soul siphon and it's morphs have the longest cast time .5 in the game on an ult that is supposed to be an emergency burst heal and it was rendered basically useless because of the long cast time so you die when you attempt to get it off.

Incap NEEDS the major defile back and to remove the silence that gives cc immunity which doesn't make any sense on an ultimate, literally every ultimate in the game if it doesn't have a stun attached people will for a stun before the ultimate (making the silence unattainable) or try to stun after the ultimate to lead to follow up (which you can't do because the silence gives cc immunity). If it regains the major defile and loses the cc immunity granting silence and stays at 70 ult at all times it will be a solid ultimate like soul harvest that can apply pressure and have a small extra bonus for being slotted. It does NOT need a stun.

Anyone who says the class needs a stun on incap isn't concerned of balance as the stun is what made the skill so overtuned and why the bow proc has gone through so many changes with cast time/travel time to make it near impossible to land immediately after the ultimate. Even magblade would take the ult with the stun attached to guarantee a follow up bow proc even though it had less dmg because of the penetration scaling on it.

Surprise attack needs a huge buff as it is the only spammable in the game that a class is actually locked into by normal means since it forces the nb to be on the offensive to get it's armor buff, going with the skill audit and class kits having one type debuff/buff on one skill instead of multiple ones (also limiting build diversity btw) instead of giving it fracture which they made clear they want it on mark you could move minor vulnerability from the gap closer ambush to it to compensate or add a bleed dot that's stronger then wardens ranged spammable which would be justified since it's a melee skill of 5m which requires more risk getting in melee to apply it also since bleeds have been nerfed to scale with resistances and don't even do max damage unless the target is stacking high amounts of them.

Dark cloak which acts as the armor buff for non cloaking nb, major resolve DOES NOT even last the entire duration of the skill since they changed it to it's current version without heavy armor. So unless in wearing 2 pieces of heavy your armor buff doesn't even give you armor buff for the full duration of the skill which is absolutely ridiculous. This could be fixed by going to the shadow barrier passive and simply adding 2 seconds to it's base increasing it from 6 seconds to 8 seconds. Keeping it still unique to the nb without further homogenizing class. The heal on it could be increased slightly by like 2-5% more off your max hp to promote it's as an alternative toshadowy disguise and have skills like conceal weapon/surprise attack speed/stun etc. synergies with it while it's active. The master assassin passive needs to be changed to support dark cloak as well.

Grim focus and it's morphs getting damage mitigation really doesn't make sense on a rogue class but if they are committed to it it should give 10% mitigation on cast without a build up. It really should get some kinda offensive buff such as minor berserk/force and move major brutality/sorcery from drain essence and it's morph which requires you to get in melee range before getting your buffs which doesn't make sense to grim focus opening up more options in build diversity with nightblades and keep in line with the theme of the skill in building attack power to launch your attacks. Also giving a ranged skill a melee heal makes no sense and is extremely in poor design. The heal should go to sap essence and power extraction where a melee heal could be used, increasing the healing on sap essence helping magblade out with their healing issues and giving power extraction a small heal similar to sap essence current heal to hopefully make this skill see use on stamblade since it's cost is extremely high.

Iskiab

The main reason I think the class feels so undertuned is it’s slow and sustain isn’t good. You can build for speed and for sustain with what you’re left with doesn’t hit hard.

I build all my mag classes for speed and don’t have the same sustain issues. Any class can be speedy and do more.

Czekoludek

Iskiab wrote: »

The main reason I think the class feels so undertuned is it’s slow and sustain isn’t good. You can build for speed and for sustain with what you’re left with doesn’t hit hard.

I build all my mag classes for speed and don’t have the same sustain issues. Any class can be speedy and do more.

Sustain, bad burst and healing. You need a lot of healing skills on bar to secure your HP pool, they are expensive so it hits your offensive and sustain. Burst is easily avoidable

Mudcrabjedi

You hit everything spot on honestly. I main a magblade and...yea...thats really all i need to say. Been a Dunmer Magblade since day one and it just saddens me that this class seems to be the bottom of the barrel. I dont wanna be a gankblade or a bomb-blade. I WANT to be able to stand up and fight as a freaking Blood Bender lol.

The magblade is BY FAR my favorite class, but...give it some love..

Also, burst heal lol.

JinxxND

I don't think they will ever give a stealth class a burst heal cause that could be pretty broken with the ability to already reset the fight and adding a spammable burst heal I'm guessing you guys are imagining like the templar breath of life or pet heal on magsorc, they definitely could increase the heals they have though on hots though with the new dmg mitigation

Ri_Khan

Didn't they nerf the oblivion out of Templars when the Warden class was released with Morrowind? It seems like the same thing has happened here to NB's with the introduction of Necro's with Elsweyr. They weaken the popular equivalent of the shiny new class that's being hyped for sale. It's like extra "incentive" to buy the new content and help redistribute class populations.

Were NB's over-tuned DPS for a while? Of course. Were too many people playing them? Maybe but we don't get to see such numbers so who knows? Did they need to be curb stomped every patch for a solid year? Not really! They've been relegated to be the cloak & gank class now and not much fun. Of course Necro's did step into the scene with top DPS so go figure. I'd be curious to see how much of the NB population became Necro's. The Breton in the trailer sure did!

Ragnaroek93

Problem with Dark Cloak is that it's a tank skill and usually people who play Nb don't want to play a tank so you're locked into invis cloak.
I don't think stam Nb is as weak as people say it is (it has a high skill ceiling), the main problem is that it doesn't have enough bar space. The class can't build a complete template anymore (which would have a stun, an execute, leeching strikes and cloak + shade) while still being able to kill proper opponents because they gutted Surprise Attack, Poison Injection and Grim Focus so much. That and make people die faster in general would help the class a lot.

Vyvrhel

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, just reroll. That’s what I did. You’re either going to repeatedly get upset or just roll another class that interests you.

What would you recommend as a noob friendly PVP class/race combination? I admit I struggle a lot on my stamblade and the lags do not make it better. Like smashing the ult button 5 times before ending dead with depleted ultimate points is the usual experience, and at a melee range I feel very helpless, as if I see the target still in front of me while he is already someplace else. Looks like almost none of my LAs lands since the scourge never procs. Unlike on dummy or when roaming when I get the proc easily.

Vyvrhel

Ri_Khan wrote: »

It seems like the same thing has happened here to NB's with the introduction of Necro's with Elsweyr. They weaken the popular equivalent of the shiny new class that's being hyped for sale.

I think they did it because people often complained they were oneshot by ambushers.

Rahar

If we have to keep cast times, can we at least make it so that a good stun or fear guarantees an incap? Right now, you have to literally be fighting a crayon eater for it to hit reliably because break free + dodge roll is enough to avoid it. I think my ratio for incaps/SAs is something like 25% hit, lmao

also wtf is with NB burst? it's the most predictable thing in the game and miat's is still an issue as always

t. sorc main

Czekoludek

JinxxND wrote: »

I don't think they will ever give a stealth class a burst heal cause that could be pretty broken with the ability to already reset the fight and adding a spammable burst heal I'm guessing you guys are imagining like the templar breath of life or pet heal on magsorc, they definitely could increase the heals they have though on hots though with the new dmg mitigation

Solution for that is pretty easy, give NB reliable burst heal for other morph of cloak. So you can have burst heal OR invisibility. Easy peasy

Fur_like_snow

Bombard and spin2win are two skills I use to fight groups. They’re also really great skills for countering cloak blades. The gameplay has changed to counter the meta but over time NB has become antiquated as it exists somewhere in the past.

First step is to remove cast times for ultimates and watch how the situation changes when incap can land reliably. The experiment failed it didn’t help new players as Zeni had hoped.