Events in ESO feel so fake

Enemoriana

Raisin wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

But in theory, a small new zone for an event suddenly existing? That would be dope. It'd be exciting. It may not be realistic to implement but it would be very nice. It'd mean something new to explore and figure out for the event, making us find our way to things first (in this case I believe the event ticket system wouldn't work well, as it puts pressure on players to be able to complete certain same things each day rather than letting things build up).

Do you understand that "small new zone" will be exciting only for first time? Like new life/jester quests were. Next year you will say again "nothing new, just grind for new stuff!"
So what you suggest?
Change zone each year each event? That will block them for new players and those who missed - and that's not how things work in this game.
Just add one more zone each year, with old available? Soon will be impossible to complete event if you didn't participate in previous - because of too much content.
And that works with any event content.

It'd still be more interesting than what we have now and have better potential for interesting replayability. There's a hundred ways to make it work, you're just hung up on being negative.

I don't see people complaining about "not imaginative" to suggest any of that "hundred ways". Only whining "I already saw that, add new, and next year I'll repeat".

New zone will change nothing. With jester/new life we see how it can be done in old locations. What would be different if three jesters would stay somewhere else, except more work? Nothing.
And just to see new places - better make a dlc, that will be opened 365 days a year.

Yeah I specifically chose not to go into elaborate explanations in how to properly implement such a thing because there's a lot if ifs and buts and it would clearly be a wasted effort on you.

You're just parading your debbie downer opinions as fact while covering your ears to avoid having to listen to actual reason. Get over yourself and let people dream about having some excitement in a game they love mate.

And I know how to achieve CHIM, but won't say.
Just same "add new content and doesn't matter this will not work with available-to-everyone scheme". Get over yourself and try to understand why not much is added each year and how it works in prospect.

If you honestly think that the current system is the best that can be done, you have very little faith in ZOS' ability to design enjoyable content.

Events can be really interesting and "imaginative" only if they will change every year. Because repeating always gives -100500 to interest. That's not bad way to do it. No matter how long you play, each event is new for you.
But!
In this game things go another way. All ingame content stays available. So each player, no matter if he plays from beta or started yesterday, can get access to everything. Only few cosmetic items are locked.
That's why regular events adds little each year, that's why only-one-time marketing events like "get psijiic villa" requires easy and usual activity like getting existing achievent.
And that's different, but also not bad way to do it.

Nah man. It's completely possible for events to be engaging gameplay even if they repeat every year. Theres absolutely no need for the event basis being 'do the same content as normally but grind this specific one'. Your bar is set insanely low.

We have 6 regular big events: New Life, jester, game anniversary, Midyear Mayhem, Witch festival, Undaunted event. DLC anniversaries doesn't matter because they are just to fill space and give tickets (that's why they are not connected with real dates of anniversaries).
From that 6 event 4 are "try that content too": try dungeons in Undaunted, try PvP in MM, try various bosses in halloween, try different dailies in anniversary. That's usual activity with just extra rewards.
2 event are not. Jester and new life festivals gives you new quests with some actions you don't normally do. Like leading pig to escape unnoticed.
So, question...
DID THAT HELP?
No.
People are complaining in same way. Not interesting, boring, grind, boring and loooong grind.
Not because that activity is what they do every day, but because they already saw it.

Kahnak

I've played a lot of MMO's (WoW, TERA, LOTRO, FF14, ESO) and this is the only one where they have yearly events that consistently give away free stuff that could have easily been monetized, and that includes the weeks long exp buff. I make millions of gold every year during the anniversary event - which was 5 weeks last year. I use the exp boosts to level alts and skill lines. I do a lot of crafting, so the free materials make a big difference. This is the time of year (Midyear Mayhem) that I make my AP, as I do not regularly participate in PvP, but there is enough incentive for me to get in there and mix it up. While the theme of the event doesn't change all that much, they generally add to the already existing rewards for each event, each year. I honestly don't think you're going to find another game where the developer hands out 4 free mounts with tickets earned just for eating an anniversary cake or completing a normal dungeon or free player housing for simply running around the new content. If you choose not to take advantage of the events, that is obviously your prerogative, but there are a lot of us that get a lot out of these events already and look forward to them each year. The ZOS team is already relatively small, and asking for a unique experience for every event (of which there are many) comes off as a little entitled.

Czinczar

Kahnak wrote: »

I've played a lot of MMO's (WoW, TERA, LOTRO, FF14, ESO) and this is the only one where they have yearly events that consistently give away free stuff that could have easily been monetized, and that includes the weeks long exp buff. I make millions of gold every year during the anniversary event - which was 5 weeks last year. I use the exp boosts to level alts and skill lines. I do a lot of crafting, so the free materials make a big difference. This is the time of year (Midyear Mayhem) that I make my AP, as I do not regularly participate in PvP, but there is enough incentive for me to get in there and mix it up. While the theme of the event doesn't change all that much, they generally add to the already existing rewards for each event, each year. I honestly don't think you're going to find another game where the developer hands out 4 free mounts with tickets earned just for eating an anniversary cake or completing a normal dungeon or free player housing for simply running around the new content. If you choose not to take advantage of the events, that is obviously your prerogative, but there are a lot of us that get a lot out of these events already and look forward to them each year. The ZOS team is already relatively small, and asking for a unique experience for every event (of which there are many) comes off as a little entitled.

The only thing you're talking about in this long post is rewards, you see the problem ? What about the experience ?

Raisin

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

But in theory, a small new zone for an event suddenly existing? That would be dope. It'd be exciting. It may not be realistic to implement but it would be very nice. It'd mean something new to explore and figure out for the event, making us find our way to things first (in this case I believe the event ticket system wouldn't work well, as it puts pressure on players to be able to complete certain same things each day rather than letting things build up).

Do you understand that "small new zone" will be exciting only for first time? Like new life/jester quests were. Next year you will say again "nothing new, just grind for new stuff!"
So what you suggest?
Change zone each year each event? That will block them for new players and those who missed - and that's not how things work in this game.
Just add one more zone each year, with old available? Soon will be impossible to complete event if you didn't participate in previous - because of too much content.
And that works with any event content.

It'd still be more interesting than what we have now and have better potential for interesting replayability. There's a hundred ways to make it work, you're just hung up on being negative.

I don't see people complaining about "not imaginative" to suggest any of that "hundred ways". Only whining "I already saw that, add new, and next year I'll repeat".

New zone will change nothing. With jester/new life we see how it can be done in old locations. What would be different if three jesters would stay somewhere else, except more work? Nothing.
And just to see new places - better make a dlc, that will be opened 365 days a year.

Yeah I specifically chose not to go into elaborate explanations in how to properly implement such a thing because there's a lot if ifs and buts and it would clearly be a wasted effort on you.

You're just parading your debbie downer opinions as fact while covering your ears to avoid having to listen to actual reason. Get over yourself and let people dream about having some excitement in a game they love mate.

And I know how to achieve CHIM, but won't say.
Just same "add new content and doesn't matter this will not work with available-to-everyone scheme". Get over yourself and try to understand why not much is added each year and how it works in prospect.

If you honestly think that the current system is the best that can be done, you have very little faith in ZOS' ability to design enjoyable content.

Events can be really interesting and "imaginative" only if they will change every year. Because repeating always gives -100500 to interest. That's not bad way to do it. No matter how long you play, each event is new for you.
But!
In this game things go another way. All ingame content stays available. So each player, no matter if he plays from beta or started yesterday, can get access to everything. Only few cosmetic items are locked.
That's why regular events adds little each year, that's why only-one-time marketing events like "get psijiic villa" requires easy and usual activity like getting existing achievent.
And that's different, but also not bad way to do it.

Nah man. It's completely possible for events to be engaging gameplay even if they repeat every year. Theres absolutely no need for the event basis being 'do the same content as normally but grind this specific one'. Your bar is set insanely low.

We have 6 regular big events: New Life, jester, game anniversary, Midyear Mayhem, Witch festival, Undaunted event. DLC anniversaries doesn't matter because they are just to fill space and give tickets (that's why they are not connected with real dates of anniversaries).
From that 6 event 4 are "try that content too": try dungeons in Undaunted, try PvP in MM, try various bosses in halloween, try different dailies in anniversary. That's usual activity with just extra rewards.
2 event are not. Jester and new life festivals gives you new quests with some actions you don't normally do. Like leading pig to escape unnoticed.
So, question...
DID THAT HELP?
No.
People are complaining in same way. Not interesting, boring, grind, boring and loooong grind.
Not because that activity is what they do every day, but because they already saw it.

Except there's literally people right here telling you that it's because of the type of gameplay, not because of repitition. Who use some of that stuff (i.e. pig leading) as excamples of the closest we get to different gameplay. Like...your thought process is "Oh this person is explaining how they don't find the events to be engaging because of grind. I'm gonna go inform them that they actually don't like it because they've done it before!" I don't know how to explain to you how ridiculous that is. You're not a mind reader, (snip) of what people are saying to see past what you've decided to project onto them.

(edited for baiting)

Enemoriana

Raisin wrote: »

Except there's literally people right here telling you that it's because of the type of gameplay, not because of repitition. Who use some of that stuff (i.e. pig leading) as excamples of the closest we get to different gameplay. Like...your thought process is "Oh this person is explaining how they don't find the events to be engaging because of grind. I'm gonna go inform them that they actually don't like it because they've done it before!" I don't know how to explain to you how ridiculous that is. You're not a mind reader, (snip) of what people are saying to see past what you've decided to project onto them.

(edited for baiting)
Edited by ZOS_FelipeF on January 25, 2020 12:53PM

Repeating is what makes this "grind", don't you understand? And any new content will become grind! In any location, with any gameplay, unless events will become one time quest, new each year, never repeated. Any repeated actions to get rewards in mmo are grind, by definition, no matter what exact actions are required!

Kahnak

Czinczar wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

I've played a lot of MMO's (WoW, TERA, LOTRO, FF14, ESO) and this is the only one where they have yearly events that consistently give away free stuff that could have easily been monetized, and that includes the weeks long exp buff. I make millions of gold every year during the anniversary event - which was 5 weeks last year. I use the exp boosts to level alts and skill lines. I do a lot of crafting, so the free materials make a big difference. This is the time of year (Midyear Mayhem) that I make my AP, as I do not regularly participate in PvP, but there is enough incentive for me to get in there and mix it up. While the theme of the event doesn't change all that much, they generally add to the already existing rewards for each event, each year. I honestly don't think you're going to find another game where the developer hands out 4 free mounts with tickets earned just for eating an anniversary cake or completing a normal dungeon or free player housing for simply running around the new content. If you choose not to take advantage of the events, that is obviously your prerogative, but there are a lot of us that get a lot out of these events already and look forward to them each year. The ZOS team is already relatively small, and asking for a unique experience for every event (of which there are many) comes off as a little entitled.

The only thing you're talking about in this long post is rewards, you see the problem ? What about the experience ?

Considering that I said 'asking for a unique experience for every event (of which there are many) comes off as a little entitled.', would imply that you didn't even bother to read it or you just saw what you wanted to see. Nevertheless, it's not ZOS's responsibility to ensure that every event, some of which are only 5 or so days, is a unique and special experience every single year. You can infer from the above post that it's already a big ask considering the volume of events compared to other MMO's and the incentive in terms of rewards. Neither of which are provided by any other top-tier MMO that I'm aware of. This doesn't even take into account the fact that you haven't even defined what "What about the experience" is even supposed to mean. It just sounds like "I'm bored because I've done these events before. Do something new for me.". If you want a unique experience, maybe consider playing a game you haven't played before and engaging in the limited events that they provide. It might offer some valuable perspective.

Kitty_Quietly

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Except there's literally people right here telling you that it's because of the type of gameplay, not because of repitition. Who use some of that stuff (i.e. pig leading) as excamples of the closest we get to different gameplay. Like...your thought process is "Oh this person is explaining how they don't find the events to be engaging because of grind. I'm gonna go inform them that they actually don't like it because they've done it before!" I don't know how to explain to you how ridiculous that is. You're not a mind reader, you're just too ignorant of what people are saying to see past what you've decided to project onto them.

Repeating is what makes this "grind", don't you understand? And any new content will become grind! In any location, with any gameplay, unless events will become one time quest, new each year, never repeated. Any repeated actions to get rewards in mmo are grind, by definition, no matter what exact actions are required!

Indeed. Personally, I hope they don’t start doing one time event quests. Grind or not, I rather enjoy the nostalgic feeling when certain events return.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

Greetings,

Some posts have been edited due to including instances of baiting. We do not allow such posts in our discussions.

Raisin

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Except there's literally people right here telling you that it's because of the type of gameplay, not because of repitition. Who use some of that stuff (i.e. pig leading) as excamples of the closest we get to different gameplay. Like...your thought process is "Oh this person is explaining how they don't find the events to be engaging because of grind. I'm gonna go inform them that they actually don't like it because they've done it before!" I don't know how to explain to you how ridiculous that is. You're not a mind reader, (snip) of what people are saying to see past what you've decided to project onto them.

(edited for baiting)
Edited by ZOS_FelipeF on January 25, 2020 12:53PM

Repeating is what makes this "grind", don't you understand? And any new content will become grind! In any location, with any gameplay, unless events will become one time quest, new each year, never repeated. Any repeated actions to get rewards in mmo are grind, by definition, no matter what exact actions are required!

Yeah...no. grinding doesn't mean what you think it means. Something repeating once a year is in no way equal to having to perform the exact same gameplay thing once (or often many times) a day for 2 weeks. There is such a huge difference, even if we ignore the fact that the whole talking point here was some different, engaging event gameplay, where fun counteracts the feeling of boredom. Why are you so obsessed with this 'one time ever event quest' strawman argument thing anyway?

Enemoriana

Raisin wrote: »

Yeah...no. grinding doesn't mean what you think it means. Something repeating once a year is in no way equal to having to perform the exact same gameplay thing once (or often many times) a day for 2 weeks. There is such a huge difference, even if we ignore the fact that the whole talking point here was some different, engaging event gameplay, where fun counteracts the feeling of boredom. Why are you so obsessed with this 'one time ever event quest' strawman argument thing anyway?

> Something repeating once a year is in no way equal to having to perform the exact same gameplay thing once (or often many times) a day for 2 weeks.
Is your ideal event one 15-minutes quest with not usual mechanics?
I'm afraid to disappoint you, but that's not what most people want from events. They want event to last more than one day.
And it seems you forget that events exist to bring people in game, that's why they require to do something for two weeks instead of two minutes.
More than 15 minutes? Will be again complains (underline nessesary) - takes too much time! slay ton of mobs again! just run from one marker to another! to hard, impossible to get! i skipped all dialogs and now want to say that event is boring! grind, grind, GRIND!

And does somebody threaten you with knife near your neck to do all activities during all two weeks? If you don't want to "grind", just don't do it! Do event quests/activities once a year, miss things you don't like.
Last anniversary event I participated only 2 weeks from 5, with crafting dailies, because I often do them even without event (addons be praised). And know what? I didn't die.

> whole talking point here was some different, engaging event gameplay, where fun counteracts the feeling of boredom
No event can give activity that everybody will like. That's impossible even theoretically, because people are different and like different things. So even in ideal game one event will not be "engaging" for everybody. Then we have to look at full year. And...
We have events for nearly all major activities! Exploring missing, but mostly because it can't be repeated action.
If nothing is engaging and fun, maybe problem is not with events and you are just tired of game? It is normal thing, just make a break and play something completely different.

> Why are you so obsessed with this 'one time ever event quest' strawman argument thing anyway?
Hmm, because you still didn't show even one of "hundreds" ways to make repeatable and available to everybody event?
Until showing at least one thing that will work under such conditions and can not be claimed as grind by anyone, we have only those two variants - repeatable actions and not repeatable action.

Kahnak

Raisin wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Except there's literally people right here telling you that it's because of the type of gameplay, not because of repitition. Who use some of that stuff (i.e. pig leading) as excamples of the closest we get to different gameplay. Like...your thought process is "Oh this person is explaining how they don't find the events to be engaging because of grind. I'm gonna go inform them that they actually don't like it because they've done it before!" I don't know how to explain to you how ridiculous that is. You're not a mind reader, (snip) of what people are saying to see past what you've decided to project onto them.

(edited for baiting)
Edited by ZOS_FelipeF on January 25, 2020 12:53PM

Repeating is what makes this "grind", don't you understand? And any new content will become grind! In any location, with any gameplay, unless events will become one time quest, new each year, never repeated. Any repeated actions to get rewards in mmo are grind, by definition, no matter what exact actions are required!

Yeah...no. grinding doesn't mean what you think it means. Something repeating once a year is in no way equal to having to perform the exact same gameplay thing once (or often many times) a day for 2 weeks. There is such a huge difference, even if we ignore the fact that the whole talking point here was some different, engaging event gameplay, where fun counteracts the feeling of boredom. Why are you so obsessed with this 'one time ever event quest' strawman argument thing anyway?

Their point is that unless it is a unique, one time event, people will complain about any repetitive gameplay that they are asked to participate in whether you find the gameplay particularly engaging or not. It's not a strawman and it's not difficult to understand. If we're talking about consistent yearly events this is a perfectly valid argument. We're not talking about doing things once a year, as there are no events like this. New content or gameplay will become old content or gameplay and people will proceed to complain about it unless it is changed every year. Additionally, you will have another group complaining because they enjoy the old content or gameplay. Anything repetitive is considered a grind, regardless of whatever your personal definition of the word happens to be. If you're going to argue semantics over the definition of a word, at least provide what your definition of the word happens to be. "Yeah...no" is not an appropriate argument if you're trying to have a discussion in good faith.

noun

informal laborious or routine work or study

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/grind?s=t

EchoirVarsoj

Sadly most events are like that.

The game is a system pretty rigid and they have to rely on just offering happy boxes, some events offer cool rewards like the Anniversary event and other ones have an instanced room like the Witches Festival. But yes, they only place a tent outside the beginner cities and that's all the magic. Although the current event is good because it makes PvP content feel crowded and active, it's not bad at all.

I don't want to disappoint you but the events on the game are lacking in terms of having specific zones to enjoy them. It's just about "do this content which always has been there" or do these mindless repetitive daily quests in order to receive a happy box "but don't stop doing that everyday" while the event lasts. And that applies to temporal/seasonal events too.

Back when I started played I wished the events were more elaborated, offering amusing side-activities, mini-games, thematic decorated areas, etc. But that's all, you get used the event content, every time there's one you just go and farm or buy the new rewards and move on and don't give a **** of the event at all.
It's just an excuse to play the game if you didn't intend to play, because there's the new outfit set or new shiny reward waiting.

wolfbone

Czinczar wrote: »

It feels like they are saying "Here, have a toy inside your usual cereal box". Why aren't there more imaginative stuff, exciting stuff ? It's supposed to be a fantasy game but it feels more like a capitalist marketing simulation game. Every event feels the same, only the rewards change(and even that in largely debatable : just boxes with some stuff in it?), and while rewards can be useful for character progression, I don't play a fantasy MMO for rewards, but to feel the excitement of discovering new things, of trying new things. I want to be surprised, I want to really feel what it's like to live in a fantasy world where magic is all over the place and everything can happen at any time. So when I hear "event", I say to myself "wow, I want to be part of that", but then I am just disappointed. And I am not only talking about the current event, but all of them.

-Why isn't there an open world zone that opens only when there is a specific event, a zone that would change every year, where some of the mechanics of the game are modified? Let's say it's a PvE event and you can go to the zone once a day, but if you die before completing the zone, you can only comeback the next day.
- Why isn't there a big labyrinth that would open only when there is a specific PvP event where it's free for all, and there is some nice reward in the middle of the labyrinth, or a title, or nice glowing cosmetic stuff, etc ?

I mean, do you have any other event ideas than double rewards or boxes with reward stuff in it ? Give us some exciting stuff !!!

And don't even get me started on what they have announced for 2020. It's just more of the same stuff "here, have your usual dungeon and your usual new zone which just contains the usual stuff"....

sp what you'rre saying is that you dont like the events or the majority of the game. there's nothing keeping you here, if it's really as boring as you claim, why are you still here?

Lady_Linux

ESO is not real life? What the......

thissocalledflower

Lady_Linux wrote: »

ESO is not real life? What the......

oh just stop...

Czinczar

Guys, on this thread, the main argument is that events have no substance other than more rewards. If you remove the rewards, there are no events anymore. Which is to say that during events, there is nothing you can do that you can't also do outside of events. We are saying that the devs could really improve these events, that there is immense room for improvement. It's their game, they made it, and if they want to improve it, they should look into events because there is big potential there.

I get the feeling that this thread has become a typical discussion between conservative and progressive views.

Enemoriana

Czinczar wrote: »

Guys, on this thread, the main argument is that events have no substance other than more rewards. If you remove the rewards, there are no events anymore. Which is to say that during events, there is nothing you can do that you can't also do outside of events. We are saying that the devs could really improve these events, that there is immense room for improvement. It's their game, they made it, and if they want to improve it, they should look into events because there is big potential there.

I get the feeling that this thread has become a typical discussion between conservative and progressive views.

You say they can improve but you don't say HOW it can be done.

There is reason why they do not make each event unique and why they don't add big things each year.
And we have two events that are not "do what you usually do and get extra reward". People are still complaining about grind. Even more, many people are complaining about quests being too long for grind.
Again: no one-time-only events, no big additional things each year, and even not usual things are claimed as grind on second year and later.

So what do you suggest?

Czinczar

Enemoriana wrote: »

Czinczar wrote: »

Guys, on this thread, the main argument is that events have no substance other than more rewards. If you remove the rewards, there are no events anymore. Which is to say that during events, there is nothing you can do that you can't also do outside of events. We are saying that the devs could really improve these events, that there is immense room for improvement. It's their game, they made it, and if they want to improve it, they should look into events because there is big potential there.

I get the feeling that this thread has become a typical discussion between conservative and progressive views.

You say they can improve but you don't say HOW it can be done.

There is reason why they do not make each event unique and why they don't add big things each year.
And we have two events that are not "do what you usually do and get extra reward". People are still complaining about grind. Even more, many people are complaining about quests being too long for grind.
Again: no one-time-only events, no big additional things each year, and even not usual things are claimed as grind on second year and later.

So what do you suggest?

Some examples have been given on this thread but you prefer to talk about the metaphysics of why things can't change and why things are already perfect as they are. As I said it has become a conservative vs progressist discussion.

But one more example, they could choose a zone and transform it for the duration of the event. Let's say darkness has taken over the whole zone, let's say reaper's march. There are new enemies, event specific objectives, defend this, attack that, find this, etc.. The atmosphere of the zone has been changed, maybe even some of the topography.

I am not against recycling some of the existing material.

Sylvermynx

Czinczar wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Czinczar wrote: »

Guys, on this thread, the main argument is that events have no substance other than more rewards. If you remove the rewards, there are no events anymore. Which is to say that during events, there is nothing you can do that you can't also do outside of events. We are saying that the devs could really improve these events, that there is immense room for improvement. It's their game, they made it, and if they want to improve it, they should look into events because there is big potential there.

I get the feeling that this thread has become a typical discussion between conservative and progressive views.

You say they can improve but you don't say HOW it can be done.

There is reason why they do not make each event unique and why they don't add big things each year.
And we have two events that are not "do what you usually do and get extra reward". People are still complaining about grind. Even more, many people are complaining about quests being too long for grind.
Again: no one-time-only events, no big additional things each year, and even not usual things are claimed as grind on second year and later.

So what do you suggest?

Some examples have been given on this thread but you prefer to talk about the metaphysics of why things can't change and why things are already perfect as they are. As I said it has become a conservative vs progressist discussion.

But one more example, they could choose a zone and transform it for the duration of the event. Let's say darkness has taken over the whole zone, let's say reaper's march. There are new enemies, event specific objectives, defend this, attack that, find this, etc.. The atmosphere of the zone has been changed, maybe even some of the topography.

I am not against recycling some of the existing material.

Uh.... these are the devs that can't even wipe out long-standing bugs (according to "those who know" - I personally don't have bugs) and you want them to do something mega to transform a whole zone for some event cycle?

Hoo boy.

GeorgeBlack

I agree

Malmai

Czinczar wrote: »

It feels like they are saying "Here, have a toy inside your usual cereal box". Why aren't there more imaginative stuff, exciting stuff ? It's supposed to be a fantasy game but it feels more like a capitalist marketing simulation game. Every event feels the same, only the rewards change(and even that in largely debatable : just boxes with some stuff in it?), and while rewards can be useful for character progression, I don't play a fantasy MMO for rewards, but to feel the excitement of discovering new things, of trying new things. I want to be surprised, I want to really feel what it's like to live in a fantasy world where magic is all over the place and everything can happen at any time. So when I hear "event", I say to myself "wow, I want to be part of that", but then I am just disappointed. And I am not only talking about the current event, but all of them.

-Why isn't there an open world zone that opens only when there is a specific event, a zone that would change every year, where some of the mechanics of the game are modified? Let's say it's a PvE event and you can go to the zone once a day, but if you die before completing the zone, you can only comeback the next day.
- Why isn't there a big labyrinth that would open only when there is a specific PvP event where it's free for all, and there is some nice reward in the middle of the labyrinth, or a title, or nice glowing cosmetic stuff, etc ?

I mean, do you have any other event ideas than double rewards or boxes with reward stuff in it ? Give us some exciting stuff !!!

And don't even get me started on what they have announced for 2020. It's just more of the same stuff "here, have your usual dungeon and your usual new zone which just contains the usual stuff"....

That what are you talking about are called paid DLCs. Buy new dlc to be in event, buy new dlc to have best class, buy new dlc to have best gear... ESO made like 20 cash grab dlcs on top of that 3 chapters and they have subscription and ofc ingame shop. If this aint gold mine idk what is than haha...

Alinhbo_Tyaka

I don't know that there needs to be a major overhaul though a change up in the formula would be nice. For me the problem is it has gotten to the point that it is nonstop events so I'm pretty much event'ed out. It would be nice if they took a break from events to let folks recover.

Enemoriana

Czinczar wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Czinczar wrote: »

Guys, on this thread, the main argument is that events have no substance other than more rewards. If you remove the rewards, there are no events anymore. Which is to say that during events, there is nothing you can do that you can't also do outside of events. We are saying that the devs could really improve these events, that there is immense room for improvement. It's their game, they made it, and if they want to improve it, they should look into events because there is big potential there.

I get the feeling that this thread has become a typical discussion between conservative and progressive views.

You say they can improve but you don't say HOW it can be done.

There is reason why they do not make each event unique and why they don't add big things each year.
And we have two events that are not "do what you usually do and get extra reward". People are still complaining about grind. Even more, many people are complaining about quests being too long for grind.
Again: no one-time-only events, no big additional things each year, and even not usual things are claimed as grind on second year and later.

So what do you suggest?

Some examples have been given on this thread but you prefer to talk about the metaphysics of why things can't change and why things are already perfect as they are. As I said it has become a conservative vs progressist discussion.

But one more example, they could choose a zone and transform it for the duration of the event. Let's say darkness has taken over the whole zone, let's say reaper's march. There are new enemies, event specific objectives, defend this, attack that, find this, etc.. The atmosphere of the zone has been changed, maybe even some of the topography.

I am not against recycling some of the existing material.

Aha.
So, we'll get...
- "fighting again? grind!"
- "I hate all that events and I can't do zone quests now because of it!"
- "it's ruining immersion!"
- (next year) "grind that again?!"

What you suggest - is just like existing events with more decorations.

Please, understand two simple things.
First: it's impossible to make event that will be interesting and engaging for everyone.
Second: any idea will become "grind" in second year, if not faster.
Because any events, that can not be fully completed in one day and don't lock anything in short time (like "this boss is here only one day"), will have repeatable actions. And repeatable actions is grind! When event is new, it doesn't look like because you don't know what you'll see next, but as soon as you saw it till the end - nothing is left.
Except new rewards.

Raisin

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Yeah...no. grinding doesn't mean what you think it means. Something repeating once a year is in no way equal to having to perform the exact same gameplay thing once (or often many times) a day for 2 weeks. There is such a huge difference, even if we ignore the fact that the whole talking point here was some different, engaging event gameplay, where fun counteracts the feeling of boredom. Why are you so obsessed with this 'one time ever event quest' strawman argument thing anyway?

> Something repeating once a year is in no way equal to having to perform the exact same gameplay thing once (or often many times) a day for 2 weeks.
Is your ideal event one 15-minutes quest with not usual mechanics?
I'm afraid to disappoint you, but that's not what most people want from events. They want event to last more than one day.
And it seems you forget that events exist to bring people in game, that's why they require to do something for two weeks instead of two minutes.
More than 15 minutes? Will be again complains (underline nessesary) - takes too much time! slay ton of mobs again! just run from one marker to another! to hard, impossible to get! i skipped all dialogs and now want to say that event is boring! grind, grind, GRIND!

And does somebody threaten you with knife near your neck to do all activities during all two weeks? If you don't want to "grind", just don't do it! Do event quests/activities once a year, miss things you don't like.
Last anniversary event I participated only 2 weeks from 5, with crafting dailies, because I often do them even without event (addons be praised). And know what? I didn't die.

> whole talking point here was some different, engaging event gameplay, where fun counteracts the feeling of boredom
No event can give activity that everybody will like. That's impossible even theoretically, because people are different and like different things. So even in ideal game one event will not be "engaging" for everybody. Then we have to look at full year. And...
We have events for nearly all major activities! Exploring missing, but mostly because it can't be repeated action.
If nothing is engaging and fun, maybe problem is not with events and you are just tired of game? It is normal thing, just make a break and play something completely different.

> Why are you so obsessed with this 'one time ever event quest' strawman argument thing anyway?
Hmm, because you still didn't show even one of "hundreds" ways to make repeatable and available to everybody event?
Until showing at least one thing that will work under such conditions and can not be claimed as grind by anyone, we have only those two variants - repeatable actions and not repeatable action.

I realize I'm coming in late here, but dude... Half of this response is just rambling about things I didn't even talk about. I didn't say anything about weird 15 minute quest *** and here you are going on about how it's both too long and too short? Everything you say comes down to 'people will complain anyway'. So that's your reason to shut down people who put legitimate effort into thinking about this topic and making suggestions? If you can't be happy with anything, then do it by yourself man.
But yeah, sure, tell everyone to just not participate in events rather than making suggestions on how to make the content more engaging. God forbid people WANT to play the game and to have fun. FFS

But yes, you're completely right. The ONLY option is "complete mindless grind" and "1 time only limited thing to never ever returb'. There is ABSOLUTELY no middle ground. Genius.

Honestly the only person here that would complain about anything, no matter what it is, is you. And you're assuming that others will just be the same.

Kahnak wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Except there's literally people right here telling you that it's because of the type of gameplay, not because of repitition. Who use some of that stuff (i.e. pig leading) as excamples of the closest we get to different gameplay. Like...your thought process is "Oh this person is explaining how they don't find the events to be engaging because of grind. I'm gonna go inform them that they actually don't like it because they've done it before!" I don't know how to explain to you how ridiculous that is. You're not a mind reader, (snip) of what people are saying to see past what you've decided to project onto them.

(edited for baiting)
Edited by ZOS_FelipeF on January 25, 2020 12:53PM

Repeating is what makes this "grind", don't you understand? And any new content will become grind! In any location, with any gameplay, unless events will become one time quest, new each year, never repeated. Any repeated actions to get rewards in mmo are grind, by definition, no matter what exact actions are required!

Yeah...no. grinding doesn't mean what you think it means. Something repeating once a year is in no way equal to having to perform the exact same gameplay thing once (or often many times) a day for 2 weeks. There is such a huge difference, even if we ignore the fact that the whole talking point here was some different, engaging event gameplay, where fun counteracts the feeling of boredom. Why are you so obsessed with this 'one time ever event quest' strawman argument thing anyway?

Their point is that unless it is a unique, one time event, people will complain about any repetitive gameplay that they are asked to participate in whether you find the gameplay particularly engaging or not. It's not a strawman and it's not difficult to understand. If we're talking about consistent yearly events this is a perfectly valid argument. We're not talking about doing things once a year, as there are no events like this. New content or gameplay will become old content or gameplay and people will proceed to complain about it unless it is changed every year. Additionally, you will have another group complaining because they enjoy the old content or gameplay. Anything repetitive is considered a grind, regardless of whatever your personal definition of the word happens to be. If you're going to argue semantics over the definition of a word, at least provide what your definition of the word happens to be. "Yeah...no" is not an appropriate argument if you're trying to have a discussion in good faith.

noun

informal laborious or routine work or study

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/grind?s=t

Where are you getting this information from? You literally have people right here expressing that they would like events to be just a bit less grindy and you're telling them "well people will always call it grindy unless its literally a one time only thing". Who are these people, if it's not the people asking for less grind in the first place? You ever consider that maybe people aren't that stupid? That maybe the people saying "i just want less grind, not complete 1-time-only things" are.... Telling the truth?
If literally ever single other player will complain about it being grindy no matter what, then overall enjoyment would still go up if ZOS changed it just for me, eh? But we both know it's not true.
As I said above, the concept that there is absolutely no nuance between 'one time thing' and 'repeat a hundred times' is just... Well, factually wrong, honestly. That balance is the basis of good game design. And if I never say anything about a one-time-only quest and someone keeps using that exaggerated example to ignore any rational point of discussion you bet your ass I'm gonna call it a strawman. If you wanna dispute your own arguments instead of what I'm saying, you don't need to phrase it as a response to me, y'know?
BTW, even though your definition is clearly not intended for video game context, it still hits the mark fairly well. It's not JUST repetition -- it's about labelorous routine, generally associated with dull and not-stimulating activity. Which is why I can now say for what feels like the 324th time in this thread: It's about creating engaging gameplay that doesn't feel like a grind.

And I'm sorry but just... If you're so opposed to people wanting fun content, even if it's idealistic, then keep that misery to yourself. Let people dream and think about the kind of fantasy-fulfillment and excitement they associate with MMOs a d wish to get from one they love.

svartorn

I’d settle for a few more days for each one. The RNG is *SO BLOODY BAD* to essentially force us to buy stuff in the Crown Store.

DMuehlhausen

It sounds like somebody just needs to take a break from the game and do something else.

EnemyOfDaState

I agree with OP and it's amazing how often people on here fail to get the point, I already do dungeons, I already do PVP and I already do Trials. Giving me an extra reward for doing crap I was already doing is nice, but it is extremely low effort for an event.

PopotoSalad

Keep the repeatable stuff we have now, but also include a unique, one-time-only quest and item with each event.

Ozby

Personally love MYM and the sun spire double drop event and anniversary.

Enemoriana

Raisin wrote: »

I realize I'm coming in late here, but dude... Half of this response is just rambling about things I didn't even talk about. I didn't say anything about weird 15 minute quest *** and here you are going on about how it's both too long and too short? Everything you say comes down to 'people will complain anyway'. So that's your reason to shut down people who put legitimate effort into thinking about this topic and making suggestions? If you can't be happy with anything, then do it by yourself man.
But yeah, sure, tell everyone to just not participate in events rather than making suggestions on how to make the content more engaging. God forbid people WANT to play the game and to have fun. FFS

But yes, you're completely right. The ONLY option is "complete mindless grind" and "1 time only limited thing to never ever returb'. There is ABSOLUTELY no middle ground. Genius.

Honestly the only person here that would complain about anything, no matter what it is, is you. And you're assuming that others will just be the same.

> Everything you say comes down to 'people will complain anyway'.

Yes, people will complain anyway. You want things changed because you and some other people don't like it, but if it will be done as you want - other people will not like it. Why your opinion is most important?

> So that's your reason to shut down people who put legitimate effort into thinking about this topic and making suggestions?

You are NOT making suggestions, that's the point! You are just saying "make this not grind, there's hundred ways, but I won't suggest any". You didn't suggest even one way to make this both not grind and not blocked, and good enough to be event.

> But yes, you're completely right. The ONLY option is "complete mindless grind" and "1 time only limited thing to never ever returb'. There is ABSOLUTELY no middle ground. Genius.

And again.
Repeatable actions. Will be claimed as grind, no matter what exact action it will be - if not by you, then by somebody else.
Not repeatable action, one time thing. Will be blocked for those who missed.
What third state do you suggest?