Leap Slowed down...

Fawn4287 · January 2020

All ultimates should have a cast time, add the cast time to crescent sweep too

jcm2606 · January 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

All ultimates should have a cast time, add the cast time to crescent sweep too

No ultimates should have cast times. We should be asking for the game becoming more fluid and responsive, not less.

ecru · January 2020

I messed around with this a bit and it's way too slow in melee range. This will be blocked basically every time. I already block almost every leap from 10m or further away, this will make it braindead easy to block every single one.

sweatapodimas · January 2020

Knew this was going to happen, cast times are trash. I fought against it and many DKs players laughed about it and I mentioned leap was going to be next.

Just stop it ZOS...bad ZOS BAAAD ZOS

StShoot · January 2020

jcm2606 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skysenzz wrote: »

I don't really mind the slow down for ranged leap (even though a bit faster flight would be better) but when you melee it feels kinda bad to have your damage delayed by that much.

I'll just go ahead and join the onslaught gang. How dare I try to enjoy something in this game.

Meanwhile I'm gonna go ahead and join the uninstall gang.

Best thing about this patch is that you dont even have to uninstall the game, zos is doing it for you !! thats what i call listening to feedback xD

StShoot · January 2020

Urzigurumash wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Without leap and with nerfed dizzy, stamDK will perform like he really is - weaker version of stamsorc and we can hope for some buffs in U25-26.

A reduced cost to Corrosive is the top of my list, but without any further nerfs to it naturally.

Making Inhale and Ash Clould relevant for a StamDK would be next, but that's nothing new.

Despite that, as it is we have a much wider array of skills to choose from, and more flexible build options, than StamSorcs, no?

Edit: I guess Cinder Storm is relevant, it's decent HPS for StamDK, but if both Cinder Storm and either Inhale were given the Inferno treatment of stat scaling it would be quite nice.

yeeee, we can do this if magica gets a new weapon line.... I understand that staminas want class identity but pls dont forget the diffrence in builddiversety that we curently have, staminas have accses to abilitys from 2 handed /dualwield/s&/bow and can spice up their gameplay with classabilitys and since the last year we have magica abilitys that scale with stamina.

Correct me if im Wrong but there isnt a single stamina skill that behaves like this (not that magica classes would use it since they dont have stamina to spare). Magica toons always run the same 10+2skills, sometimes they switch something out because it got buffed/nerfed, or maybe they switch to s&b for the passiv abilitys, but it remains mostly the same.

So yes give stamina classes more class identity, but dont forget to give magicas some builddiversety (either by converting some weapon abilitys to magica and make that the LAs scale with the highest value or by introducing a new magica based weaponline [fingers crossed for rune&sword])

MizoreReyes · January 2020

Seriously bad for MagDK's as Ferocious Leap (Magicka Fire Morph) falls in comparison to Take Flight (Stamina Morph) already because of it being a defensive ulti which is affected by Battle Spirit.

Sneakers · January 2020

Well if devs are gonna be consequent they have to gut and utterly demolish:

Flame reach = KB desyncs and makes u slide, cant break out of it

Leap = impact/land de syncs u makes u slide unable to stand up

Vamp drain = same *** de syncs unable to break free

Necro totem = de sync unable to break free

Magnum shot = de syncs cant stand up slides on ground for seconds

Fozzilise = cant break free from root effect with roll, rolls in place twice before it lets u go, wastes 12k-16k stamina

Mass hysteria = cant break out of, lands before u can even see the NB come out of stealth, de syncs u

Meteor = KB, stun desync deluxe this is one of the worst offenders out there has to die and get gutted no dmg no CC can possibly deal OFF BALANCE with the new 15s immunity after a cleanse

They all have to be gutted and destroyed like dizzy swing if there is to be any consistency. Servers cannot handle the "CC by animation" since u get stuck in animation and with additional effects it de syncs u and causes too many oddities.

ZOS_RogerJ · January 2020

Just a friendly reminder, as we've removed/edited some posts for bashing, that we do not permit the bashing of individuals (including ZeniMax employees), groups, or other companies on our forums. We believe that doing so is neither constructive nor in spirit of our game and community.

Ragnarock41 · January 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Read the tooltip.
Stamina is 100% offensive, while mag leap has a defensive portion.

It is also cheaper... And when we take into account how much more a magdk has to invest into sustain. All of your tooltips will be much higher and we have to be in the same range to do damage. I appreciate you'll say that a magdks skills are split with healing, but if we take the utility portion out of the skill (such as embers heal Vs venemous escalating damage)stamdk have a lot more damage and can stack WD much higher without penalty.

I have no problem with stamdks I am just pointing out that Stam dks generally are in a really good place.

Not to mention if leap is now terrible you can run corrosive or onslaught. I can use meteor which is nearly double the cost of leap and not anywhere near as enjoyable.

StamDKs are ''generall in a really good place'' because of take flight+executioner giving them a kill combo.

How can you say this will not affect them as much?

Spartabunny08 · January 2020

jcm2606 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skysenzz wrote: »

I don't really mind the slow down for ranged leap (even though a bit faster flight would be better) but when you melee it feels kinda bad to have your damage delayed by that much.

I'll just go ahead and join the onslaught gang. How dare I try to enjoy something in this game.

Meanwhile I'm gonna go ahead and join the uninstall gang.

Already did. They better fix this crap or they're going to kill the game. We want to have fun. Like the tank meta now, all because complaining about permablock tanks well look now. We have tanks packing 4 to 6k wpn dmg and bursting everyone and can't be killed. Great trade off here. My tanks ever since woeler and morrowwind have just gotten weaker and this is now what we're doing? This is really getting out of hand. The state of pvp is unacceptable. This game is unacceptable. Zos you need to give everyone in this game free eso plus for a year for this. I've already deleted your game because it certainly isn't my game. I once loved this game, it's really sad to see it this way honestly. I'm embarrassed for you. Bad show.

relentless_turnip · January 2020

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Read the tooltip.
Stamina is 100% offensive, while mag leap has a defensive portion.

It is also cheaper... And when we take into account how much more a magdk has to invest into sustain. All of your tooltips will be much higher and we have to be in the same range to do damage. I appreciate you'll say that a magdks skills are split with healing, but if we take the utility portion out of the skill (such as embers heal Vs venemous escalating damage)stamdk have a lot more damage and can stack WD much higher without penalty.

I have no problem with stamdks I am just pointing out that Stam dks generally are in a really good place.

Not to mention if leap is now terrible you can run corrosive or onslaught. I can use meteor which is nearly double the cost of leap and not anywhere near as enjoyable.

StamDKs are ''generall in a really good place'' because of take flight+executioner giving them a kill combo.

How can you say this will not affect them as much?

Because they generally have higher damage and more opportunity to build more damage due to sustain issues on a magdk. They also have more burst options via weapon lines. I could roll 2H on a magdk so i could use onslaught, but wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as a staff the rest of the time...

I'm not saying it doesn't affect stamdk it just doesn't as much... I actually play stamdk too i just prefer my magdk.
They should just fix the bug rather than nerfing the skill...

juhislihis19 · January 2020

ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder, as we've removed/edited some posts for bashing, that we do not permit the bashing of individuals (including ZeniMax employees), groups, or other companies on our forums. We believe that doing so is neither constructive nor in spirit of our game and community.

Stop bashing the game, please.

MartiniDaniels · January 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Read the tooltip.
Stamina is 100% offensive, while mag leap has a defensive portion.

It is also cheaper... And when we take into account how much more a magdk has to invest into sustain. All of your tooltips will be much higher and we have to be in the same range to do damage. I appreciate you'll say that a magdks skills are split with healing, but if we take the utility portion out of the skill (such as embers heal Vs venemous escalating damage)stamdk have a lot more damage and can stack WD much higher without penalty.

I have no problem with stamdks I am just pointing out that Stam dks generally are in a really good place.

Not to mention if leap is now terrible you can run corrosive or onslaught. I can use meteor which is nearly double the cost of leap and not anywhere near as enjoyable.

StamDKs are ''generall in a really good place'' because of take flight+executioner giving them a kill combo.

How can you say this will not affect them as much?

Because they generally have higher damage and more opportunity to build more damage due to sustain issues on a magdk. They also have more burst options via weapon lines. I could roll 2H on a magdk so i could use onslaught, but wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as a staff the rest of the time...

I'm not saying it doesn't affect stamdk it just doesn't as much... I actually play stamdk too i just prefer my magdk.
They should just fix the bug rather than nerfing the skill...

But in practice, magDK are very common in U24 among solo players. On no-CP PC EU I can easily say it is 4th most popular spec after magplar, stamden, stamplar, while stamDK is really rare. I met 1 stamDK for each 5 magDKs. And the only situation where I died to stamDK in 1v1 was where I heavily underestimated him and was smashed by onslaught combo. While magDK apply consistent pressure and feel dangerous to fight against.

Davadin · January 2020

so, anybody got video/GIF to show how MUCH this slows down, honestly?

if its just like "adding a cast time", so another <1sec before i jump, honestly, i dont like it but i'll survive.... is it really a big deal?

as long as it lands and it still hits as hard and stuns, i can still follow-up with an executioner or something.

relentless_turnip · January 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Read the tooltip.
Stamina is 100% offensive, while mag leap has a defensive portion.

It is also cheaper... And when we take into account how much more a magdk has to invest into sustain. All of your tooltips will be much higher and we have to be in the same range to do damage. I appreciate you'll say that a magdks skills are split with healing, but if we take the utility portion out of the skill (such as embers heal Vs venemous escalating damage)stamdk have a lot more damage and can stack WD much higher without penalty.

I have no problem with stamdks I am just pointing out that Stam dks generally are in a really good place.

Not to mention if leap is now terrible you can run corrosive or onslaught. I can use meteor which is nearly double the cost of leap and not anywhere near as enjoyable.

StamDKs are ''generall in a really good place'' because of take flight+executioner giving them a kill combo.

How can you say this will not affect them as much?

Because they generally have higher damage and more opportunity to build more damage due to sustain issues on a magdk. They also have more burst options via weapon lines. I could roll 2H on a magdk so i could use onslaught, but wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as a staff the rest of the time...

I'm not saying it doesn't affect stamdk it just doesn't as much... I actually play stamdk too i just prefer my magdk.
They should just fix the bug rather than nerfing the skill...

But in practice, magDK are very common in U24 among solo players. On no-CP PC EU I can easily say it is 4th most popular spec after magplar, stamden, stamplar, while stamDK is really rare. I met 1 stamDK for each 5 magDKs. And the only situation where I died to stamDK in 1v1 was where I heavily underestimated him and was smashed by onslaught combo. While magDK apply consistent pressure and feel dangerous to fight against.

different playstyles for sure! I would say I see far more stamDK's on PCEU no cp but this is completely subjective

I would also say StamDK are more common solo than mag(again subjective). I do know if I see a DK stam or mag I feel the need to always kill it... because as they say in Highlander "there can be only one"

relentless_turnip · January 2020

Davadin wrote: »

so, anybody got video/GIF to show how MUCH this slows down, honestly?

if its just like "adding a cast time", so another <1sec before i jump, honestly, i dont like it but i'll survive.... is it really a big deal?

as long as it lands and it still hits as hard and stuns, i can still follow-up with an executioner or something.

It is very reassuring that NES or Isthereoneelse hasn't done a video on it. Both are a pretty strong voice in the DK community and have been thoroughly covering most of the changes.

GeorgeBlack · January 2020

Leap had a cast time since day one.
Crutching legs, wing spawn.

Stibbons · January 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I don't understand why they are slowing down leap... I get a stamDK can get their tooltip to 30K, that isn't true for a MagDK.
20K whilst having to sink so much into sustain is a more realistic tooltip.

We need this most of the time(unless they're squishy or unskilled) to finish of opponents. I get that other Ulti's also have cast times, but visually they're harder to tell when triggered.
Onslaught they have reduced the damage, but that doesn't matter when it removes ALL your resistance this is the part that kills you.

Leap you literally grow wings and jump into the air, is this not a que to block? why do we need to dumb it down....

Neft is needed for stamina DK:s.

Ragnarock41 · January 2020

Stibbons wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I don't understand why they are slowing down leap... I get a stamDK can get their tooltip to 30K, that isn't true for a MagDK.
20K whilst having to sink so much into sustain is a more realistic tooltip.

We need this most of the time(unless they're squishy or unskilled) to finish of opponents. I get that other Ulti's also have cast times, but visually they're harder to tell when triggered.
Onslaught they have reduced the damage, but that doesn't matter when it removes ALL your resistance this is the part that kills you.

Leap you literally grow wings and jump into the air, is this not a que to block? why do we need to dumb it down....

Neft is needed for stamina DK:s.

I think a buff is needed for your inability to press mouse button two since you've been crying over stamDks for years now.

Luede · January 2020

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Leap had a cast time since day one.
Crutching legs, wing spawn.

ult + morphs are instant on live

Sordidfairytale · January 2020

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Edit: I guess Cinder Storm is relevant, it's decent HPS for StamDK, but if both Cinder Storm and either Inhale were given the Inferno treatment of stat scaling it would be quite nice.

I run a MagDK and I agree.

relentless_turnip · January 2020

https://youtu.be/WRGK74MnNew
Good news guys, NES has made a video about it and says it doesn't feel any different. A bit more floaty close range apparently... But yay!!!

yeyesil · January 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

https://youtu.be/WRGK74MnNew
Good news guys, NES has made a video about it and says it doesn't feel any different. A bit more floaty close range apparently... But yay!!!

I watched it and it sucks. Even leaping close range it takes enough time to block every leap easily.

killingspreeb16_ESO · January 2020

yeyesil wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

https://youtu.be/WRGK74MnNew
Good news guys, NES has made a video about it and says it doesn't feel any different. A bit more floaty close range apparently... But yay!!!

I watched it and it sucks. Even leaping close range it takes enough time to block every leap easily.

Still too fast need to be slowed more,some people might still get hit anyway 100% of the time.

Where is the counterplay1!!1!1!!

Rhaegar75 · January 2020

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

yeyesil wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

https://youtu.be/WRGK74MnNew
Good news guys, NES has made a video about it and says it doesn't feel any different. A bit more floaty close range apparently... But yay!!!

I watched it and it sucks. Even leaping close range it takes enough time to block every leap easily.

Still too fast need to be slowed more,some people might still get hit anyway 100% of the time.

Where is the counterplay1!!1!1!!

I have the solution you may be looking for...make Leap slow motion with a sound effect that shouts..."move move move a DK is leaping": that will then allow you to have 10 seconds plus a choice to drink a coffee whilst the DK is blocked in mid air.
Sounds about right doesn't it?!?!

killingspreeb16_ESO · January 2020

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

yeyesil wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

https://youtu.be/WRGK74MnNew
Good news guys, NES has made a video about it and says it doesn't feel any different. A bit more floaty close range apparently... But yay!!!

I watched it and it sucks. Even leaping close range it takes enough time to block every leap easily.

Still too fast need to be slowed more,some people might still get hit anyway 100% of the time.

Where is the counterplay1!!1!1!!

I have the solution you may be looking for...make Leap slow motion with a sound effect that shouts..."move move move a DK is leaping": that will then allow you to have 10 seconds plus a choice to drink a coffee whilst the DK is blocked in mid air.
Sounds about right doesn't it?!?!

Yes it's perfect,this is exaclty what i was thinking.
What if in the middle of the fight with a DK after he ult i want to drink a coffe?

TheFM · January 2020

mav1234 wrote: »

Cast time additions are awful. AWFUL. What a terrible direction to go in with ultimates. Nothing about cast times is rewarding or fun.

This entire patch is full of unneccessary changes.

Yes, Leap is strong. BUT ULTIMATES SHOULD BE! argh.

Health desync sucks, but why make a class clunkier because of issues with coding? Why not change the range if it is related to "long range leaping"?

Timing my ultimate just right is quite rewarding thank you very much. Killing someone I outplayed instead of abusing borked mechanics is far more rewarding than previously to me. Plus now you can do fake outs.

The devs wanted reactive gameplay from the get go, and now we finally have it.

TheFM · January 2020

jcm2606 wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

All ultimates should have a cast time, add the cast time to crescent sweep too

No ultimates should have cast times. We should be asking for the game becoming more fluid and responsive, not less.

Not being able to see abilities firing is more fluid and responsive? Ok.

Fruity_Ninja · January 2020

jcm2606 wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

All ultimates should have a cast time, add the cast time to crescent sweep too

No ultimates should have cast times. We should be asking for the game becoming more fluid and responsive, not less.

So much this.

Cast times on ultimate abilities and spammable abilities (new stam stonefist) only serve to unnecessarily slow down gameplay. ESO combat has always been unique, fast and fluid. It’s one of the game’s best features.