Omg bgs change IS THE BEST CHANGE IN ESO HISTORY.

Lucious90

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I think 2 ques is a possibility after a season of solo ques. Without a doubt pre made groups has killed bgs. I think after a time period of a completely level playing field of competitive gameplay free of any advantage. eso will have a unbias number rank of good solo players. Then they can create a group option.. I see the goal. I just hope eso stay the path. But most of all if the population remain small. my biggest hope is bgs is alway focus around the idea that this is a solo gameplay focus content first.

Next these guys complaining about try hards making these stupid tanky builds to get around the lack of coordination.... Welcome to one meta Bgs yall.


Also do you see the contradiction in your post? "Is a solo gamplay focus content first". Like..... This is a GROUP finder that teams you up with 4 other dudes in a GROUP, that puts you in an area with a GROUP of 2 other teams, that are also in 4 man GROUPS. this is like saying Cyrodiil is solo content focused and big groups are ruining your solo experience there.

I wish I had access to a meme to display the level of facepalm I have right now

idk

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

ohh yes an online game where you can't play with your friends, how great!

Bgs is a place to reward solo play.

BGs are 4v4v4. That is 3 groups of 4 players. So by definition it is an undisputable fact that BGs are group play. There is nothing logical or rational that could even begin to suggest that a team event is intended to be solo.

Gariele

I don’t think a single SoloQ is the answer. Now two BG options Solo or Team sounds more realistic and accommodating to everyone. No solo player likes running into a four man fully optimized Staminator group. Let the solo artist have their fun and let the teams bash it out.

mav1234

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I think 2 ques is a possibility after a season of solo ques. Without a doubt pre made groups has killed bgs. I think after a time period of a completely level playing field of competitive gameplay free of any advantage. eso will have a unbias number rank of good solo players. Then they can create a group option.. I see the goal. I just hope eso stay the path. But most of all if the population remain small. my biggest hope is bgs is alway focus around the idea that this is a solo gameplay focus content first.

this makes no sense.

I understand preferring to play solo in BGs than grouping with others. I don't personally like to do that, but I understand it.

But I do not understand the idea that BGs are "solo gameplay focus content first."

Nothing about a BG suggests it is solo. You use a Group Finder tool. You join a group. Your group fights other groups. It is GROUP PVP...

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

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Luke_Flamesword

Some people missing a point. It's not about making BGS a solo expierence, but this is about fair chances. In real sport you have leagues, because watching bunch of amateurs vs great professionals is not a real sport. In this case we have random groups vs premade which is never fair fight. Do you think that 1st league soccer temat should play with random bunch od boys from street, which even never played together? It's fair fight? You will tell to this amateurs, who just like to play casually for fun - "you can always make a full team and train like this hardcores"?

There are lots of players, which just like me - stopped playing BGS because too often premades totaly crushed whole fun. I don't mind existing them but it must be seperated and 2q are good solution, but probably after some time, when more people will back to BGS. If they want to play as premade, they should fight only other premades.

mav1234

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Some people missing a point. It's not about making BGS a solo expierence, but this is about fair chances. In real sport you have leagues, because watching bunch of amateurs vs great professionals is not a real sport. In this case we have random groups vs premade which is never fair fight. Do you think that 1st league soccer temat should play with random bunch od boys from street, which even never played together? It's fair fight? You will tell to this amateurs, who just like to play casually for fun - "you can always make a full team and train like this hardcores"?

There are lots of players, which just like me - stopped playing BGS because too often premades totaly crushed whole fun. I don't mind existing them but it must be seperated and 2q are good solution, but probably after some time, when more people will back to BGS. If they want to play as premade, they should fight only other premades.

most of those sports you mention have things like intermural leagues where people play casually, and then also competitive leagues. could you imagine if American football required every player to just show up and be randomly thrown on the field at different times? suddenly we've got mahomes and rodgrers playing defense on a given play/series/quarter...

but really... what are fair chances in pvp? even, balanced groups. each side with dps and healers proportionally. good competitive modes strive for that kind of balance. this is not that kind of fix, though. this still allows for some groups to have better coordination, better healing, better builds...

but yes, it does make it less likely you'll run into a tanky healer that ruins the bg for you, or a couple people better coordinated than you and your pug group. and I get that. but why should your desire to avoid people grouped together for a group activity - when you have the option to group too - mean I can't play at all with a friend until they decide at some point to maybe put in 2 queues? I am sympathetic to wanting to avoid premades, but I'm not really sympathetic to preventing me from playing with my friends entirely in BGs because premades chased people off in the past...

why not implement 2 queues on a temporary basis now, evaluate both for a patch, and make a decision on how to deal with it then? why force some of us that only want to duo or so with a buddy not to play at all for a whole patch cycle?

svartorn

BGs will now be a solo experience. You can only plan with random people who have no idea to play together. It makes it "competitive!" much like the NBA finals or world cup football being groups of random people who have never met or practiced together.

~~~***Competitive***~~~~

L_Nici

@svartorn Yes like it always is, if you are not premade. YOu don't seem to get that those premade groups were a huge problem, propably you just played in one yourself.
I really hate people who think their way of playing would be the only one, did you never noticed in one of your premade groups how you slaughtered both other teams 500 to 0 to 0?, if not you were either ignorant or your group terrible. It is absolutely unfair if 1 premade group gets paired against 2 random ones, it destroys the game for 2/3 of the players.

And I speak as someone who played in premadegroups herself, and we noticed how unbalanced the game becomes if both or just one of the enemies groups are not premade. Honestly in the long run it destroyed our fun as well, since BGs were absolutely no challenge anymore. There is no glory, nor takes it any skill to defeat randoms if you yourself are premade.

Haquor

Heelie wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

ohh yes an online game where you can't play with your friends, how great!

There is plenty PVP for group play. Cyrodiil rewards zergs, let's just be honest. Sewers rewards small scale. Bgs is a place to reward solo play. Sure you could be in a group but only one player could make leader broads.

BG's are literally group play, you play 4 people together in a group. How is this solo play?

They just want one pvp experience in game where they wont come up against an organised group that rolls everything.

I can see this greatly increasing the number of people entering BG.

But i can definatley understand the desire in this game for premade vs premade. Cause premade hammer *** everything is a waste of time and no challenge correct? Wouldnt you prefer a queue that has you face only other premades for the challenge?

So why not have two seperate queues? One for solo and one for groups. Regardless of group size.

Waffennacht

.

svartorn wrote: »

BGs will now be a solo experience. You can only plan with random people who have no idea to play together. It makes it "competitive!" much like the NBA finals or world cup football being groups of random people who have never met or practiced together.

~~~***Competitive***~~~~

And yet those of us whom have been solo queue thus far have only had this experience...

Another point I'd like to make is the fact that we've only had the one format this whole time, you'd think players would be ok allowing a change up - after years of the exact same....

And then how often did pre mades get paired against two other pre mades? I doubt it was frequent at all, therefore, most was just pug stomping - which I don't find to be a viable reason to keep pre mades

mav1234

Waffennacht wrote: »

And yet those of us whom have been solo queue thus far have only had this experience...

Another point I'd like to make is the fact that we've only had the one format this whole time, you'd think players would be ok allowing a change up - after years of the exact same....

Not all of us have been playing for years. I have a group of friends that just picked the game up over the holiday sale just to PvP together. We've done a handful of pvp matches together. Back in Summerset I also BG'd, but none of them have pvp'd until recently. This change is not something I welcome as a "change up", because it prohibits me from playing with my friends.

Waffennacht wrote: »

And then how often did pre mades get paired against two other pre mades? I doubt it was frequent at all, therefore, most was just pug stomping - which I don't find to be a viable reason to keep pre mades

based on comments by @iCaliban , on NA it was quite common when they queued together. My anecdotal experience from a single queue as a "3 stack" with a bunch of CP140s supports this, as we were placed vs another premade. When I queue as a duo, I see coordination I think suggests that there are other duos in the game, but hard to be sure.

I also have noticed a lot of players accusing others of being in a premade just because they have a healer on their team, heh.

Khaleesi8688

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Some people missing a point. It's not about making BGS a solo expierence, but this is about fair chances. In real sport you have leagues, because watching bunch of amateurs vs great professionals is not a real sport. In this case we have random groups vs premade which is never fair fight. Do you think that 1st league soccer temat should play with random bunch od boys from street, which even never played together? It's fair fight? You will tell to this amateurs, who just like to play casually for fun - "you can always make a full team and train like this hardcores"?

There are lots of players, which just like me - stopped playing BGS because too often premades totaly crushed whole fun. I don't mind existing them but it must be seperated and 2q are good solution, but probably after some time, when more people will back to BGS. If they want to play as premade, they should fight only other premades.

Ok but are the amateurs signing up to willingly play the professionals? And if so wouldn't they be going into it knowing they are likely to get dominated? You don't have to be hardcore to make a group and work together. That's the whole idea behind BG's.

I just dont understand the thought process behind equating anyone who plays BG's with their friends with "hardcore tryhards" that stomp everyone. My group has maybe won half the BGs we've done. Maybe. But if we can't play together then what's the point? Most of my alts were made for BGs because I wanted to try different things. I have no desire to run the same PVE content on 9 toons. Nor do I want to play mount simulator in cyro or spend an hour looking for enemies in the sewer. If we need a solo option why not add a 1v1 type of BG or something?

Lucious90

L_Nici wrote: »

@svartorn Yes like it always is, if you are not premade. YOu don't seem to get that those premade groups were a huge problem, propably you just played in one yourself.
I really hate people who think their way of playing would be the only one, did you never noticed in one of your premade groups how you slaughtered both other teams 500 to 0 to 0, if not you were either ignorant or your group terrible. It is absolutely unfair if 1 premade group gets paired against 2 random ones, it destroys the game for 2/3 of the players.

this is a pretty pretenous post

Ive played several premade groups and steam rolled people, been on the receiving end of the steam roll as well they arent an issue if you have the option and opportunity to actually group up yourself. I never thought for a second that them in a premade and me not was any more fair or unfair than me being in the premade and them not.

Should we do the same for Cyrodiil? The faction that has groups or multiple groups coordinating in a premade dominates the field, should we get rid of that grouping mechanic as well? My guild and friends have multiple groups running in Cyro at a time during the evening and weekends and usually do very well in our keep attacks and defends Should we not be allowed to group up because the other guys dont? either by refusal or other wise?

In my estimation of this entire thing, the guys saying this is a good thing refuse to group up which is fine you can play the game your way just like I play the game my way.

I hope Zeni has a plan for this, if you want BGs to be competitive you gotta let groups in. If the idea is to have a bunch of solos, get rid of BGs as we know it and introduce something different hell widen it to 10v10v10. Wow has Warsong Gulch, Arathi basin that are great grouped game modes that cater to solo play that also allowed premades as well as smaller scale arena style pvp that where nothing but premades against premades for a while.

L_Nici

@Lucious90 If you want BGs to be competitive, you need to give all the same chance. That means if you queue solo you will only be put against others that queued solo, and if you queue grouped, you fight groups. As I said you don't need to be skilled to take down randoms if you are premade yourself.
I have nothing against joining into BGs as Premades as long as you have to fight other premades then and exactly that was almost never the case, and as long as that issue isn't fixed I am completely fine with only queueing solo, because that equals the chance.

Minyassa

There was literally nothing stopping people from finding three other people to group up with and learning to play as a team, for those who felt like premade teams were better. This is literally one of the laziest things I've seen in a public game, ever. "I don't want to do the work to win, so I want others to be prevented from doing that work themselves." It's like being tired of being the friend in your circle who can't afford to go out to eat, so you celebrate when your other friends get fired from their jobs so they can't afford it either.

Lucious90

Honestly Id be okay with this IF its implemented, if not it shouldnt be in at all.

You have the opportunity every time you go to que for BGs. Just put in /g /zone or under social tab or your friends list. LFG BGs. I actually do this fairly often be surprised what you can do with just a little bit of communication. If the goal is the just literally have a free for all with more steps. just get rid of the 4v4v4. If the goal to actually make things more competitive implement 2 ques

xaraan

I don't know that only solo queue bg's is the answer. Population that uses BGs might not be big enough to split into team only and solo only queues, which would probably be the way to go in all honesty.

I will say as it stands now, no group of solo players, even experienced players, can take on a group of 3-4 dedicated guys that always play together, are in comms together. It's not even competitive. I've been on both sides of the coin, going in solo and being against a solid group of 4 that have it locked down, and going in with a group of four that lock things down. It's boring both ways unless you just enjoy dominating due to advantage instead of skill or unless you happen to get put up against another group. (Although then you often end up fighting with them while the 3rd team takes advantage)

Personally, I still think the whole 3-way fight gimmick needs to go. It's fine for the alliance war, but didn't need to be carried over to BGs. Maybe I've played enough CoD type matches in my younger days that I'm biased toward just having two groups, but it does seem to be a tried and tested style. Going to just two groups might give you a bit more flexibility in things like having group and solo BG queues - you could even have the finder state flat out that XX groups are in the queue right now, so if it was at zero, then it's not zos' fault no other groups are playing and you can solo queue in the meantime. I'd also like to see the ability for players to put their own group v group fights together, picking the arena and game type as well.

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