Maintenance for the week of July 8:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance - July 8
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – July 9, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – July 10, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – July 10, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance - July 8
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – July 9, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – July 10, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – July 10, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Update 43 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/662078/
Omg bgs change IS THE BEST CHANGE IN ESO HISTORY.
phoenixkungfu
✭✭✭✭
omg YES, I LOVE BGS. I used to play BGS all the time. For a year straight until they started match making. Then bgs was so boring it took 4ever to get into a match. And when I did it was all pre made groups. It was like where can I go to play as a solo player. Sewers I guess but bgs was babe. I miss bgs I felt chased away for being a good solo player. Now with the change BGS is great again. This is A great call... if you want to play with your buddy's they is other pvp content for that...I love this change. With that said, I KNOW YOU ESO, THERE WILL BE ZERGING 4V1 GROUPS THAT WILL CRY. DO NOT CHANGE THIS BACK TO ZERG DOWN THE HIGH RANK PLAYERS AGAIN. STAY STRONG AND KEEP THIS CHANGE. I HAVE FAITH IN YOU.
P.s. we are going to have a long conversation about off balance after testing.
P.s. we are going to have a long conversation about off balance after testing.
48
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Heelie✭✭✭✭✭ohh yes an online game where you can't play with your friends, how great!Most OwOrated healer of all time27 -
phoenixkungfu✭✭✭✭ohh yes an online game where you can't play with your friends, how great!
There is plenty PVP for group play. Cyrodiil rewards zergs, let's just be honest. Sewers rewards small scale. Bgs is a place to reward solo play. Sure you could be in a group but only one player could make leader broads.16 -
Heelie✭✭✭✭✭phoenixkungfu wrote: »ohh yes an online game where you can't play with your friends, how great!
There is plenty PVP for group play. Cyrodiil rewards zergs, let's just be honest. Sewers rewards small scale. Bgs is a place to reward solo play. Sure you could be in a group but only one player could make leader broads.
BG's are literally group play, you play 4 people together in a group. How is this solo play?Most OwOrated healer of all time29 -
phoenixkungfu✭✭✭✭The changes to BGS before this pts Directly negatively effected one player me. A solo player that is somewhat good OK great. As a solo player I had no content I could go to where there was a equal level playing field for PVP. The old system punish me as a good solo player and honestly chased me away from BGS. Also Bgs is by far my favorite content in the game. Follow by the sewers.0
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Paganini✭✭✭phoenixkungfu wrote: »omg YES, I LOVE BGS. I used to play BGS all the time. For a year straight until they started match making. Then bgs was so boring it took 4ever to get into a match. And when I did it was all pre made groups. It was like where can I go to play as a solo player. Sewers I guess but bgs was babe. I miss bgs I felt chased away for being a good solo player. Now with the change BGS is great again. This is A great call... if you want to play with your buddy's they is other pvp content for that...I love this change. With that said, I KNOW YOU ESO, THERE WILL BE ZERGING 4V1 GROUPS THAT WILL CRY. DO NOT CHANGE THIS BACK TO ZERG DOWN THE HIGH RANK PLAYERS AGAIN. STAY STRONG AND KEEP THIS CHANGE. I HAVE FAITH IN YOU.
P.s. we are going to have a long conversation about off balance after testing.
Sorry, but this is one of the most dumbest and egoistic comments about this topic.
Battlegrounds have been promoted and sold as "4vs4vs4" game mode to play past-paced tatical pvp-modes with your companions - or team up with randoms.
Telling now "we'll deleted the pre-made queue, everyone has to join in solo" is unacceptable.
How can you find this good? Have you been killed to many times by premades? One question: why don't you group up with 3 other people then, create a gear-setup together and also join in as a premade?
How can you blame all premade groups enjoying to queue as 2/3/4 man group, playing this game mode as it has been designed??
Instead of only allowing solo-queuing, they should add another solo-queue and leave the group queue. Or make 1vs1vs1, 2vs2vs2, 4vs4vs4.
But only allowing solo-queue is the worst way to bypass the match-making issues!
Iam in personal will avoid ever playing bg's again after this change. After joining the 4th or 5th match with a team, where 2 of your 4 mates don't even wear impenetrable and get one shoted every time.... This is just a waste of time and i don't want to play 4vs3vs2 (just an example).Edited by Paganini on January 21, 2020 7:32AM13 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭phoenixkungfu wrote: »ohh yes an online game where you can't play with your friends, how great!
There is plenty PVP for group play. Cyrodiil rewards zergs, let's just be honest. Sewers rewards small scale. Bgs is a place to reward solo play. Sure you could be in a group but only one player could make leader broads.
BG's are literally group play, you play 4 people together in a group. How is this solo play?
The ideal answer would be having two, specific, queue sets. Full pre-made 4 man BGs, and a solo queue. Of the two, the solo queue is more valuable to get out there. Get even moderately good at BGs, and you'll start getting matched up against pre-made groups.13 -
phoenixkungfu✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »phoenixkungfu wrote: »ohh yes an online game where you can't play with your friends, how great!
There is plenty PVP for group play. Cyrodiil rewards zergs, let's just be honest. Sewers rewards small scale. Bgs is a place to reward solo play. Sure you could be in a group but only one player could make leader broads.
BG's are literally group play, you play 4 people together in a group. How is this solo play?
The ideal answer would be having two, specific, queue sets. Full pre-made 4 man BGs, and a solo queue. Of the two, the solo queue is more valuable to get out there. Get even moderately good at BGs, and you'll start getting matched up against pre-made groups.
Not only would you get match up with pre mades, guarantee but you would get punish with a long half hour wait to a hour wait. Just to go against a pre made. Omg this suck the joy of playing right out of me and made me toxic for YEARS. THX YOU eso FOR A PVP EXPERIENCE TO REWARD SOLO PVP. Yes bgs is back9 -
Heelie✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »phoenixkungfu wrote: »ohh yes an online game where you can't play with your friends, how great!
There is plenty PVP for group play. Cyrodiil rewards zergs, let's just be honest. Sewers rewards small scale. Bgs is a place to reward solo play. Sure you could be in a group but only one player could make leader broads.
BG's are literally group play, you play 4 people together in a group. How is this solo play?
The ideal answer would be having two, specific, queue sets. Full pre-made 4 man BGs, and a solo queue. Of the two, the solo queue is more valuable to get out there. Get even moderately good at BGs, and you'll start getting matched up against pre-made groups.
there is not a large enough player base to support two queues, what they should have done was just implement the new skill based MMR system and see what happens. Premade queues would get MMR at a much faster rate than players being destroyed over and over. It makes no sense that I can't play BG's with my friends anymore.Most OwOrated healer of all time1 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭All I know is that when I do battlegrounds sometimes people are not to happy about premades. Its been an issue that people that queue up for it have been upset about time and time again. Well because of their coding. I don't know how they would seperate non premade from solo queue. But they could maybe do it. Some people are not happy those that play with their spouses. I can see that being an issue. I think people like the Solo change and hate it. I think there is mixed opinion on this,PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »phoenixkungfu wrote: »ohh yes an online game where you can't play with your friends, how great!
There is plenty PVP for group play. Cyrodiil rewards zergs, let's just be honest. Sewers rewards small scale. Bgs is a place to reward solo play. Sure you could be in a group but only one player could make leader broads.
BG's are literally group play, you play 4 people together in a group. How is this solo play?
The ideal answer would be having two, specific, queue sets. Full pre-made 4 man BGs, and a solo queue. Of the two, the solo queue is more valuable to get out there. Get even moderately good at BGs, and you'll start getting matched up against pre-made groups.
there is not a large enough player base to support two queues, what they should have done was just implement the new skill based MMR system and see what happens. Premade queues would get MMR at a much faster rate than players being destroyed over and over. It makes no sense that I can't play BG's with my friends anymore.
That wouldn't fix anything. Generating accurate MMR data for groups would be a database nightmare, and you can't simply sum up the group's MMR data and hold that against solo queue participants like it means anything.
Solo MMR data is easy. You win some, you lose some, and the MMR tracking can take your Win:Loss and go, "okay, this is how good you are." That's fine. (And, yeah, ESO should have losses counted into MMR data, but it's not.)
Group MMR data doesn't reflect that. A player who's good on their own may not contribute to the team at all. Or, they may synergize very well. So, how does your MMR data reflect that? You want to put a synergy modifier on their MMR, so "they perform this well in groups?" But, then you get into trouble, because your modifier will vary from individual to individual. You may work very well with another friend, but be a walking disaster in a pre-made with guildies.
You can't track linked MMRs between players, because the amount of data you'd be generating would be absurd. For example, if you had a small guild of 25 players who played together, right now that's 25 MMR stats. But then each of those players would have 25 separate MMR stats, and now those 25 players have the same footprint as over 600 players would now. (And, you're not getting away from recursive data, because that would need to be on both records.)
And it would get back to where we are anyway. If a premade had the same weight as 16 players' worth of MMR, you'd be dropped back into a three hour queue waiting for another two 4 man teams to form up.
If you wanted it to just be, "well, instead of worrying about how well someone works with others, let's just have two entries for each player, their solo MMR and their group MMR," again, you end up right were we are now, you'd still be getting shuffled into a rarified, and empty, group queue.
Much as I hate to say it, I think Phoenix is right, if you want to PvP with your friends, it might be time to hit the sewers, or just go to Cyrodiil. With BGs, the population just isn't there to support a healthy group environment normally. Maybe they can change that in the future, with some alternate, team based, BG mode, but, right now, premades are a blight on BGs.16 -
Chibs✭✭✭✭the changes to bgs are not welcome in my opinion. people play premades to play with their friends on a small scale. I don’t zerg because i don’t have 15 friends i like to play with i have 3, and now i can’t have fun with them on pvp anymore.3 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yup same here use to love playing bgs pre mades completely put me of bgs haven’t played it in a long time so I’m very excited about the change maybe bgs will be fun again.6 -
Karmanorway✭✭✭✭✭
✭IKR!!! I love it too 🥰🖤🥰 (See what i did there? My first heart emoji ever on this forum😁)5 -
Van_Winkle✭✭✭✭Why not make different BG types? One with CP and one without. One, that you can play with you friends, and one with solo-mode. But no, people, who want to play as they want must entertain people, who wants YOU to play as THEY want.2 -
Wolfkeks✭✭✭✭✭
✭I had fun playing with my friends in bg so the change isn't so amazing in my opinion.
Though I understand that people get frustrated playing against an organized 4 man group.
Would be better if we had 2 separate qq. One for solo one for groups.
EU PC 2000+ CP professional mudballer and pie thrower"Sheggorath, you are the Skooma Cat, for what is crazier than a cat on skooma?" - FadomaiFormer Emperor, Grand Overlord, vAA hm, vHelRa hm, vSO hm, vMoL hm, vHoF hm, vAS+2, vCR+3, vSS hm, vKA, vRG, Flawless Conquerer, Spirit Slayer2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What about the premade battlegrounds of not organized groups? What if people need to level pvp skill lines for warhorn/barrier/passives, and they dont want to do it alone or go cyrodil? A much better solution would have been to "boost" mmr of premade groups to a higher level, removing social aspects of an mmo is never a good thing.0 -
phoenixkungfu✭✭✭✭Two deserts cant make a paradise. Cant the group people just play in the sewers or cyrodiil. That's group play. You can play 4 man and get big rewards in sewers or play 4 man against zergs and be the a team in cyrodiil. Another way to look at it is Trials, Dungeon and maelstrom in pve. cyrodiil is trials. Dungeon is sewer. Let maelstrom be bgs. Us solo players need are home back. Pretty please.5
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the changes to bgs are not welcome in my opinion. people play premades to play with their friends on a small scale. I don’t zerg because i don’t have 15 friends i like to play with i have 3, and now i can’t have fun with them on pvp anymore.
I really mean this, hit the sewers. It's the best, small scale, PvP experience you'll get in ESO. It's better than BGs are right now. Best of all, if you've got a fifth friend, they're not left out. It's very rare that you'll encounter Zergs in the sewers, but you'll need to always be on alert.5 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What about the premade battlegrounds of not organized groups? What if people need to level pvp skill lines for warhorn/barrier/passives, and they dont want to do it alone or go cyrodil? A much better solution would have been to "boost" mmr of premade groups to a higher level, removing social aspects of an mmo is never a good thing.
That's what the game does currently, and it very obviously doesn't work. Inflating the MMR of groups doesn't work when MMR only ever goes up, and the queue relaxes its restrictions the longer you sit in queue. The longer you sit in queue, the more probable it is for you to be matched against a premade.
For higher MMR players, which is where premades really become an issue, it's a matter of time and luck. Time, because higher MMR players experience far longer queue times than lower MMR players, and luck, because there's significantly fewer players in the higher MMR brackets.2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What about the premade battlegrounds of not organized groups? What if people need to level pvp skill lines for warhorn/barrier/passives, and they dont want to do it alone or go cyrodil? A much better solution would have been to "boost" mmr of premade groups to a higher level, removing social aspects of an mmo is never a good thing.
That's what the game does currently, and it very obviously doesn't work. Inflating the MMR of groups doesn't work when MMR only ever goes up, and the queue relaxes its restrictions the longer you sit in queue. The longer you sit in queue, the more probable it is for you to be matched against a premade.
For higher MMR players, which is where premades really become an issue, it's a matter of time and luck. Time, because higher MMR players experience far longer queue times than lower MMR players, and luck, because there's significantly fewer players in the higher MMR brackets.
If mmr only ever goes up then the problem is not with premades but with the mmr system in game
Edit: i mean seriously, if the game thinks that people that has 90 loses 10 wins should be matched up with 0 loses 10 wins....Edited by zvavi on January 21, 2020 9:33AM2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »the changes to bgs are not welcome in my opinion. people play premades to play with their friends on a small scale. I don’t zerg because i don’t have 15 friends i like to play with i have 3, and now i can’t have fun with them on pvp anymore.
I really mean this, hit the sewers. It's the best, small scale, PvP experience you'll get in ESO. It's better than BGs are right now. Best of all, if you've got a fifth friend, they're not left out. It's very rare that you'll encounter Zergs in the sewers, but you'll need to always be on alert.
If Imperial City actually had a somewhat decent population you would have a point (PC/EU here), but it simply doesn't. Only time IC has population is during the IC-event once a year otherwise it's dead man's land with barely any players. If you're lucky you'll find some social guild hosting some event occasionally but that's about it.
And I find it pretty interesting how people un intentionally bashes smallscale. When smallscalers complained about things in Cyrodil they would get the response to "go battlegrounds if you want smallscale", so they did. And now when that doesn't work people tell them to go to IC which is a ghost town on most servers. Interesting to say the least......3 -
Crom_CCCXVI✭✭✭✭✭Wow... A zerg is a large group of unorganized underpowered fleas that rely on sheer numbers (see Starcraft)
4 friends playing together is not a zerg, it's just 4 friends playing together.
[removed for baiting comment]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on January 21, 2020 2:20PM6 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭While I agree that premade groups are a huge issue in Battlegrounds, I do not think removing the ability to group with friends is the answer. Its regressive.
Better matchmaking is the answer. A matchmaking that does not put a premade 4 person team up against a team of 4 random solo players, for instance.6 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »the changes to bgs are not welcome in my opinion. people play premades to play with their friends on a small scale. I don’t zerg because i don’t have 15 friends i like to play with i have 3, and now i can’t have fun with them on pvp anymore.
I really mean this, hit the sewers. It's the best, small scale, PvP experience you'll get in ESO. It's better than BGs are right now. Best of all, if you've got a fifth friend, they're not left out. It's very rare that you'll encounter Zergs in the sewers, but you'll need to always be on alert.
If Imperial City actually had a somewhat decent population you would have a point (PC/EU here), but it simply doesn't. Only time IC has population is during the IC-event once a year otherwise it's dead man's land with barely any players. If you're lucky you'll find some social guild hosting some event occasionally but that's about it.
And I find it pretty interesting how people un intentionally bashes smallscale. When smallscalers complained about things in Cyrodil they would get the response to "go battlegrounds if you want smallscale", so they did. And now when that doesn't work people tell them to go to IC which is a ghost town on most servers. Interesting to say the least......
I don't have disdain for small scale PvP, I just find the IC is a much more engaging space for that. And, yeah, it is a lot of PvE downtime, between skirmishes. Also, I'm on PCNA, where there are just enough hostile players to keep you on edge. I'm not sure what's going on with PCEU, when I logged in over there the other night, the entire server felt dead.2 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What about the premade battlegrounds of not organized groups? What if people need to level pvp skill lines for warhorn/barrier/passives, and they dont want to do it alone or go cyrodil? A much better solution would have been to "boost" mmr of premade groups to a higher level, removing social aspects of an mmo is never a good thing.
That's what the game does currently, and it very obviously doesn't work. Inflating the MMR of groups doesn't work when MMR only ever goes up, and the queue relaxes its restrictions the longer you sit in queue. The longer you sit in queue, the more probable it is for you to be matched against a premade.
For higher MMR players, which is where premades really become an issue, it's a matter of time and luck. Time, because higher MMR players experience far longer queue times than lower MMR players, and luck, because there's significantly fewer players in the higher MMR brackets.
If mmr only ever goes up then the problem is not with premades but with the mmr system in game
Edit: i mean seriously, if the game thinks that people that has 90 loses 10 wins should be matched up with 0 loses 10 wins....
Inflating MMR alone still doesn't work when the match maker loosens MMR the longer you sit in queue. I mean, just think about it for a second. To separate groups from solo queues, the game inflates the number it uses to determine your individual skill level as a player. Tell me that doesn't sound ass backwards.
The proper solution to this, while still having everyone in the same queue, is to introduce a new variable in the match making function, that basically represents how big the group is. The match maker then tries to match you against other players not just based on your MMR, but also this new variable.
The match maker could also loosen this new variable the longer you sit in queue, maybe allowing solo queues to more likely match against duos, or maybe 3-mans, if the MMR is close enough.
Point being, they're trying to use a skill level number to match groups with groups, when they really should be using a group size number. It should be MMR + group size, not MMR * group size.0 -
Ash_In_My_Sujamma✭✭✭✭✭I solo queue for bgs and I don't like it when I face premades but I find the solution to this problem pretty bad and you shouldn't be so excited.
What they should have done instead, is add another queue for groups only. Solo queue and group queue. Add a rank system for the group bgs and give some nice rewards to the top of the leaderboard. Make it attractive like the emperorship used to be. Maybe add a hall of champions like wow or a nice tabard and a title or a mount or a costume, you can do so many things. Exclude non max lvl players from group queues so that the new players don't get bamboozled. Give the players options for casual and competitive time in your game.
And please for the love of god rework your cp system and end this dichotomy between cp and non cp pvp.
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FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Not sure I see the point of this, other than it’s clear ZOS are admitting they cannot build a group finder capable of arranging matched, grouped BGs.
To say BGs shouldn’t be about premade groups is ridiculous. Even more so than the previous system that dropped them in games with non-premades like hand grenades in fish barrels.
Now every BG will essentially be 3 groups of four random players trying to figure out how to play together while killing one another. There will not be any progression or value to the extent that I’m not sure why you would even be in a team.
There’s no ability for players to help introduce others to BGs as there’s no guarantee they’ll be in the same BG, let alone the same team.
I’m not sure it will help introduce and retain new players into an already anemic player population, and I can imagine it will only encourage more toxic in-team chat as players who don’t know one another blame one another.5 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IMO, the ideal solution would be to have 3 queues -- Quick Match, Ranked Solo Match, and Ranked Group Match.
Quick Match only allows for solo queues, maybe duos, and has very fast and loose match making, basically designed to just get you into a game as fast as possible.
Ranked Solo only allows for solo queues, but it has full match making, complete with a competitive leaderboard and rank divisions.
Ranked Group is the same as Ranked Solo, but for groups.
Of course, whether we have the population for this is another matter.4
This discussion has been closed.