Flame Lash is a completely useless skill now.

jcm2606

MaskedHuman wrote: »

a MagDK friend of mine wanted to say this but he doesn't have a forum account:

Offbalance is 7s with a cooldown of 15s. 7s with 2s whip cooldown means that in that 22s you have only 3 POTENTIAL powerlashes.
You only have a 1s respite, so if any of those powerlashes is staggered more than 1gcd, you lose 1 as the offbalance would end. Now, the first one, after the setup lash is either going to miss since they will roll out of foss, or you will have to stagger it, which means to actually get 3 lashes you will have to hit each one on the dot.
Only one of these will actually be able to be timed into a CC since you require CC to be able to get offbalance in the first place. So we are actually talking about only one guaranteed lash per player every 22s. That is awful. Sustain is trash as is
So. My proposal is remove it completely from this offbalance system. Make it so that a powerlash is instantly proc'd on any immobile enemy, no setup lash needed, and remove
the powerlash cooldown as it would then be dictated by the CC cooldowns itself. Obviously as no setup lash would be needed the "half price" effect would be removed, and the heal would be halved too, as it would be able to be used slightly more often. The offbalance can be kept on the powerlash, or honestly it could be removed since mdks won't use the exploiter cp passive and won't make use of it to CC or return resources through heavy.
This would make the interractions work as following:
*Fossilize guarantees one powerlash hit, anything after can be avoided.
*Roots give the option of a powerlash hit if they are not rolled/removed/immune to. This is a lesser chance as roots are every 3s. It would return some functionality to roots since the auto root cooldown meant that using fossilize and for example talons were redundant as it would remove fossilize's root.
*If the enemy for some reason doesn't break free then you would be able to get off multiple lashes, giving the power lash a unique functionality as almost an execute via stamina.
*It would still function as the more attrition based attack with less damage compared to the set burst molten.

If they're gonna be keeping this off balance change, they should move Flame Lash over to its own status effect. I do like the fact that you can kinda hold your Power Lash, having it proc straight on CC would stop you from being able to hold it.

Hotdog_23

I say just get rid of condition on powerlash and let every 3rd one be a more powerful lash that heals and stuns. Nerco’s skulls get more powerful every third cast so why can powerlash not with no requirement condition or cooldown. Admittedly the stun would probably have to go if they did this. Which I would have no problem with.

jcm2606

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

I say just get rid of condition on powerlash and let every 3rd one be a more powerful lash that heals and stuns. Nerco’s skulls get more powerful every third cast so why can powerlash not with no requirement condition or cooldown. Admittedly the stun would probably have to go if they did this. Which I would have no problem with.

1. Power Lash doesn't have a stun, so what are you referring to with "the stun would probably have to go if they did this"?

2. Having it be buffed every 3rd cast would be even worse, IMO, because it makes it that much more uncontrollable. Any sort of proc mechanic like this must have a condition that allows players to control exactly when it procs, that's one of the reasons why Necro's scythe and skulls feel so bad, because it's uncontrollable.

OrderoftheDarkness

The ESO balance is easily viewed through a comparison of class spams or rather it just doesn't exist.
For example Puncturing Strikes >/= Lava Whip and their morphs.
All this is much stronger than Flame Skull, Stonefist and Dive and their morphs.
Scythe is not exactly a spam class this is a pathetic version of Cleave, because you can use Master Weapon for Cleave.(This skill is also not popular, of course the scythe will be even worse)
Developers instead of trying to change class spam by adding special effects to them based on class identity, continue to twist other abilities such as Dizzy.
For me, it's just a failure. Therefore, classes that use Guild, weapon abilities are just a shell that lacks its own capabilities to be competitive. The opportunity to use Guild, weapon abilities should be a choice of variety, not a direct indication of the action, because they are more effective.
All these changes in abilities just distract players from problems that can't be solved at the moment.
P. S. We can certainly refer to some abilities that are to blame for the range and speed of the projectile, but on the other hand this should not be a problem, because there are long-range abilities that hit instantly. There would be a desire to correct, there is always an opportunity...

Hotdog_23

jcm2606 wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

I say just get rid of condition on powerlash and let every 3rd one be a more powerful lash that heals and stuns. Nerco’s skulls get more powerful every third cast so why can powerlash not with no requirement condition or cooldown. Admittedly the stun would probably have to go if they did this. Which I would have no problem with.

1. Power Lash doesn't have a stun, so what are you referring to with "the stun would probably have to go if they did this"?

2. Having it be buffed every 3rd cast would be even worse, IMO, because it makes it that much more uncontrollable. Any sort of proc mechanic like this must have a condition that allows players to control exactly when it procs, that's one of the reasons why Necro's scythe and skulls feel so bad, because it's uncontrollable.

You are right. My bad trying to read and respond quick while on break at work lol.

Mettaricana

Xvorg wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Since flame lash is useless now... maybe ZOS can convert it to stamwhip finally?

Since Flame lash is garbage, ZoS could reduce the dmg of power lash, but make it execute enemies under 50% health, escalating like JB or reverse slash, instead of the heal.

Oh, and making the skill scale with the higher type of dmg, stam or magicka (like soul trap, but fire and poison instead of magical and physical dmg)

That sounds like a disaster tbh. StamDK doesn't need more buffs nor does it need whips and MagDK just needs to be able to power lash, same ability, same everything, just not a 15 second cooldown on it

Do you really think flame lash is good? As I said above, the skill was destroyed after morronerf/nerfmire/nerfsewyr changes.

Now is just a meh heal attached to very unreliable mechanic (5 light attacks are cheaper)...

the skill should be buffed instead of nerfed, but you know, ZoS always nerfs something that should be buffed, so you stay happy with your crappy skill, not making any change to it.

Change everythig to change nothing... that should be the motto of this development team.

Very accurate statement
Like we buffed x weapon lines skills by 40% but we nerfed the weapons base damage by 50% heres your rework...

Fruity_Ninja

How about if they make the powerlash undodgeable, and remove/lessen the hidden cooldown? 😉

That could make the 7s off balance uptime a real whipfest!

MaskedHuman

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

How about if they make the powerlash undodgeable, and remove/lessen the hidden cooldown? 😉

That could make the 7s off balance uptime a real whipfest!

the cooldown is 15 seconds on pts.

liningtonsweldingb16_ESO

The way I Understood the off balance change from a mag dks perspective is that for those 7 seconds you’ll have unlimited powerlashs? The. You’ll have to wait 15 seconds for another 7 seconds of unlimited powerlashs?

I don’t know what all you are crying about

Sanguinor2

liningtonsweldingb16_ESO wrote: »

The way I Understood the off balance change from a mag dks perspective is that for those 7 seconds you’ll have unlimited powerlashs? The. You’ll have to wait 15 seconds for another 7 seconds of unlimited powerlashs?

I don’t know what all you are crying about

It has an internal 3 second cooldown but sure Keep Talking About Things you dont understand.

MaskedHuman

liningtonsweldingb16_ESO wrote: »

The way I Understood the off balance change from a mag dks perspective is that for those 7 seconds you’ll have unlimited powerlashs? The. You’ll have to wait 15 seconds for another 7 seconds of unlimited powerlashs?

I don’t know what all you are crying about

I think you should do some research before posting, just some advice.

liningtonsweldingb16_ESO

My bad guys. You’re right I haven’t played do I’m way too long and shouldn’t have commented.. I just play a stam sorc and we have literally nothing and would do anything for a soammable equivalent of whip.

Again my bad

MaskedHuman

liningtonsweldingb16_ESO wrote: »

My bad guys. You’re right I haven’t played do I’m way too long and shouldn’t have commented.. I just play a stam sorc and we have literally nothing and would do anything for a soammable equivalent of whip.

Again my bad

So your argument is coming from a "I have no spammable I'll do anything for that spammable" perspective?" and not looking at what abilities should or should not do? Somehow you just made yourself look worse.
A lot of stam classes have spammables yet they still use dizzy, you know why? Because dizzy is just a better spammable.
Again if you have anything constructive to say rather than turning this into a give stam sorcs a spammable thread, You're more than welcome to.

liningtonsweldingb16_ESO

Not to mention a unique play style with the MOST class identity in the game and here you still cry

BlackMadara

Xvorg wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

MaskedHuman wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Since flame lash is useless now... maybe ZOS can convert it to stamwhip finally?

Since Flame lash is garbage, ZoS could reduce the dmg of power lash, but make it execute enemies under 50% health, escalating like JB or reverse slash, instead of the heal.

Oh, and making the skill scale with the higher type of dmg, stam or magicka (like soul trap, but fire and poison instead of magical and physical dmg)

That sounds like a disaster tbh. StamDK doesn't need more buffs nor does it need whips and MagDK just needs to be able to power lash, same ability, same everything, just not a 15 second cooldown on it

Do you really think flame lash is good? As I said above, the skill was destroyed after morronerf/nerfmire/nerfsewyr changes.

Now is just a meh heal attached to very unreliable mechanic (5 light attacks are cheaper)...

the skill should be buffed instead of nerfed, but you know, ZoS always nerfs something that should be buffed, so you stay happy with your crappy skill, not making any change to it.

Change everythig to change nothing... that should be the motto of this development team.

6.1k crit heals in pvp each tick for 3 times is pretty good, idk wym, I've always been wrecking people with flame lash, even against other magdks running molten whip. It was always a good ability, it just required better setups compared to molten whip which is literally brainless. With this change? it's *** terrible. On live? it's pretty good.

It was good, now is meh

1- Power lash used to stun off balance enemies, so if you were able to proc off balance without a stun and then whip again the guy, you had a second powerlash available
2- It used to be undodgeable
3- It was a free cast
4- It had an 8 mts range
5- It had a lower cost
6- It didn't have a heal as strong as now, but it was a bursty one, not a semi HoT

If you thik now is strong... sorry, it is quite bad compared to what it used to be. I thought that root immunity seemed to be the last nail in the coffing, but I was wrong. Off Balance immunity is much worse.

Not to metion the increase in CC immunity after break free. Now instead of counting 6 to have a window to use your proc after a stun, you have to count to 9. Compared with the 5 secs in a NB to use spectral bow, or the 33% chances on a sorc to proc frags, it is stupid even thinking about slotting the skill.

@ZOS_Gilliam, did you even check mDKs mechanics before launching this.... change? And if you are planning to go this way, how are you addressing those issues? Because the skill is useless, and the class is pretty much pointless with all the nerfs you gave us.

When did CC immunity change to 9 seconds? I haven't seen this.

Stibbons

MaskedHuman wrote: »

• Off Balance now lasts 7 seconds from player sourced abilities and sets.

• Off Balance is no longer reapplied to a target for 15 seconds once the original source of Off Balance ends. This cooldown is displayed as a debuff on targets once they are affected.

This completely kills Flame lash, A core Magicka Dragonknight ability that relies on having enemies Off balance consistently to get the heal and damage.
If you don't know what Flame lash does, here it is:

Lash an enemy with flame, dealing xxxx Flame Damage. If you strike an enemy that is immobile or stunned, you set them Off Balance. Targeting an Off Balance enemy changes this ability into Power Lash, allowing you to lash an enemy at half cost to deal xxxx Flame Damage and heal you for xxxx over 2 seconds. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.

so now, as a Magicka Dragonknight, I won't be able to even use a core ability. This is the exact same thing that happened with Charged Ice blockade and they nerfed roots because of it, effecting MagDKs the most because of talons.

Here's my suggestion. Either make Flame lash have a rule break and be able to ignore the Off balance cooldown, or add a new condition for the ability that lets the second hit of power lash on a rooted/stunned target always do a power lash, keeping the original 3 second cooldown.

Stamina meta. Reroll and you have been templarized.