Why vampire drain is so OP

CASP3R421

Karmanorway wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

@Karmanorway Well I do play BGs and never see that abillity. Its heavily outclassed by the 10 out of 12 Templar Spearspam Sweepers (that would be something to consider OP if there is such a big unbalance in the classes)

Well that is funny, cuz i see ppl spam it in every godforsaken BGs i get with magdens and magcros in it, maybe because we have different mmr then. The skill is OP, its the second thing ive called for nerf ever, and before vampire drain it was the dots meta during their primetime

someone get this man a purge

Karmanorway

Lord_Hypnos wrote: »

Nerf streak, nb skills and bow skills and every other skill that stuns/deals damage and/or that heals while you are at it

lets make this game so extremely passive that no one can B*tch around all the time

Or simply fix vampire drain so u actually can break free from it with full stamina bar like every other cc in the game???
I really dont get why thats too much to ask 😂

EDIT: this is not a nerf thread its a fix thread

Lord_Hypnos

Imagine if ppl would not ask for nerfs all the time BUT for BUFFS... and then there is the most important thing called l2p :P

Iskiab

yodased wrote: »

The problem with this skill is the problem in all previous CC skills that have been looked at.

Remember when lightning staff clench was stunning you before it hit you and knocking you to the floor? How many people started using it?

Nightblade Fear for years you couldn't break from and the majority of nightblades used it.

Fossilize Talons would perm cc you, you couldn't break or move until 8 seconds basically giving you a kill with a modicum of damage.

Take flight will CC you .8 - 1.1 seconds after the DK lands on the ground, also not being able to break free.

Volcanic run will knock you in the air and sometimes you will not be able to counter it until you hit the ground and THEN break free.

Vamp drain seems to take 2 or 3 break frees just like the old nightblade fear and it was never like that before.

When you start to see a skill go from 0 use to a high number being used without that skill being changed you have to look objectively at the situation.

People want to win and especially in this game truly exploit every weakness in it, which there are many.

It will pass just like all the others have passed and a new over performing broken skill will emerge -> that will pass and a new over performing broken skill will emerge -> that will pass and a new over performing broken skill will emerge

This is the way.

You’re right, but the people who hate vamp drain the most are medium dodge roll spammers. It’s moreso the issue that people are using the counter to their build and they don’t want to adapt.

Most of the complaints don’t want the skill retuned and the cost increased, they want it removed.

Karmanorway

Iskiab wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

The problem with this skill is the problem in all previous CC skills that have been looked at.

Remember when lightning staff clench was stunning you before it hit you and knocking you to the floor? How many people started using it?

Nightblade Fear for years you couldn't break from and the majority of nightblades used it.

Fossilize Talons would perm cc you, you couldn't break or move until 8 seconds basically giving you a kill with a modicum of damage.

Take flight will CC you .8 - 1.1 seconds after the DK lands on the ground, also not being able to break free.

Volcanic run will knock you in the air and sometimes you will not be able to counter it until you hit the ground and THEN break free.

Vamp drain seems to take 2 or 3 break frees just like the old nightblade fear and it was never like that before.

When you start to see a skill go from 0 use to a high number being used without that skill being changed you have to look objectively at the situation.

People want to win and especially in this game truly exploit every weakness in it, which there are many.

It will pass just like all the others have passed and a new over performing broken skill will emerge -> that will pass and a new over performing broken skill will emerge -> that will pass and a new over performing broken skill will emerge

This is the way.

You’re right, but the people who hate vamp drain the most are medium dodge roll spammers. It’s moreso the issue that people are using the counter to their build and they don’t want to adapt.

Im a medium blackrose dual wield spammer with 30k resists i have adapted, doesnt work. So that means everyone must turtle up in heavy just because of this one skill?
U remember how much shield spammers cried over oblivion damage? Well this is worse for a dodge roll spammer, because u need to break free 3 times aswell to get free

xXMeowMeowXx

LoL

Karmanorway

The difference between nerf and fix

#A nerf is reducing the power of a overperforming skill.

#A fix is making a skill work as intended with the rest of the game mechanics.

Just a little education for ppl complaining about nerfs ☺️👍 Vampire drain is the only skill in the game thats almost impossible to break free from, hence its a Fing fix thread

JanTanhide

LOL. Ok.

Lord-Otto

The CC is blockable. You don't wanna get stunned, you block it. Simple. You complaining about Fear, Turn Evil, Streak and Fossilize, too?

It's not a DoT. It's a channel or canceled, a spammable. Unlike the old meta DoTs, you CANNOT stack Vamp Drain damage with other DoTs. That's why it can be stronger than Entropy, Soultrap and the likes.

We have a tank meta. A tank META. META! You seriously wanna gut the one tool we have to somewhat fight this boring meta? Or are you one of those guys who hate dying and just revel in the current PvP?

Stun animation is bugged. Yup. It should be changed to a simple kneel.

Nemesis7884

it is so op that i have never seen anyone using it and so relevant pre skill redesigning ^^

Karmanorway

Lord-Otto wrote: »

The CC is blockable. You don't wanna get stunned, you block it. Simple. You complaining about Fear, Turn Evil, Streak and Fossilize, too?

It's not a DoT. It's a channel or canceled, a spammable. Unlike the old meta DoTs, you CANNOT stack Vamp Drain damage with other DoTs. That's why it can be stronger than Entropy, Soultrap and the likes.

We have a tank meta. A tank META. META! You seriously wanna gut the one tool we have to somewhat fight this boring meta? Or are you one of those guys who hate dying and just revel in the current PvP?

Stun animation is bugged. Yup. It should be changed to a simple kneel.

Just fix this, i really dont care that much about the rest, and you are right we have a problem with the tank meta thats where this skill and dots come in handy, but overperforming on medium armor builds.
If they were smart they wouldnt have removed the dots but instead make it stronger on heavy armor snb users.
What about the shield spamming meta, shouldnt we get old oblivion damage back as direct counter to that aswell?

Karmanorway

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

it is so op that i have never seen anyone using it and so relevant pre skill redesigning ^^

Maybe u should start pvping then, then u will see it too ☺️👍

Nemesis7884

Karmanorway wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

it is so op that i have never seen anyone using it and so relevant pre skill redesigning ^^

Maybe u should start pvping then, then u will see it too ☺️👍

no worries in the future you will have to catch a player first, jump on his back and ride him like a bull before you can bite him...

zShepplin

Going to slot vamp drain now. Look forward to seeing y'all.

Karmanorway

zShepplin wrote: »

Going to slot vamp drain now. Look forward to seeing y'all.

Great, me too! Time to show ppl how broken this skill is

Lord-Otto

Karmanorway wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

The CC is blockable. You don't wanna get stunned, you block it. Simple. You complaining about Fear, Turn Evil, Streak and Fossilize, too?

It's not a DoT. It's a channel or canceled, a spammable. Unlike the old meta DoTs, you CANNOT stack Vamp Drain damage with other DoTs. That's why it can be stronger than Entropy, Soultrap and the likes.

We have a tank meta. A tank META. META! You seriously wanna gut the one tool we have to somewhat fight this boring meta? Or are you one of those guys who hate dying and just revel in the current PvP?

Stun animation is bugged. Yup. It should be changed to a simple kneel.

Just fix this, i really dont care that much about the rest, and you are right we have a problem with the tank meta thats where this skill and dots come in handy, but overperforming on medium armor builds.
If they were smart they wouldnt have removed the dots but instead make it stronger on heavy armor snb users.
What about the shield spamming meta, shouldnt we get old oblivion damage back as direct counter to that aswell?

Oblivion damage was absurdly high (no mitigation possible) and stackable, like Shieldbreaker+Oblivion enchant. Drain is at best a weak spammable. If all your enemy does is spam a weak spammable, you will beat him using your more powerful skills on a dodgeroll build. I see where you're going, but at the moment there's no need to worry. Maybe in the future, should damage go up, but Drain will probably be gone by that point, anyways.

Edziu

Lord-Otto wrote: »

The CC is blockable. You don't wanna get stunned, you block it. Simple. You complaining about Fear, Turn Evil, Streak and Fossilize, too?

It's not a DoT. It's a channel or canceled, a spammable. Unlike the old meta DoTs, you CANNOT stack Vamp Drain damage with other DoTs. That's why it can be stronger than Entropy, Soultrap and the likes.

We have a tank meta. A tank META. META! You seriously wanna gut the one tool we have to somewhat fight this boring meta? Or are you one of those guys who hate dying and just revel in the current PvP?

Stun animation is bugged. Yup. It should be changed to a simple kneel.

spmmable, channeling or not

dizzing swing also was and is spammable and what they have dont to this? they taken away CC from skill which was doing bigger chunk of damage

same they have dont withother cc skills which had some damage, they dont have damake now, just cc

so why now we have:

a) "spammable" with cc which have no space currently in ZOS balance

b) CC skill with huge chunk of damage? same, with current ZOS balance no any CC have damage in it

we dont need big brains here to see this skill is how it should not be any skill in current ZOS balance state as how they themselves stated changing other skills with CC in them

ZonasArch

High dot, op? This is a channel... You can't drop this skill, let it work passively (dot) and go use another skill. The damage from this skill is pretty low actually.

Channels are not just DoTs. Or do you see Templars using Jesus Beam and a javelin or jabs at the same time?

You're too biased. L2p issue... And I don't even use this skill on PvP, mind you. I'm literally always on the receiving end for that one and I still don't mind it as it is... Nobody uses this crap. People are making a storm out of it just because they don't wanna block, just roll roll roll away. This means l2p...

Khrogo

Kill it with fire!

Salvas_Aren

Karmanorway wrote: »

RefLiberty wrote: »

You are really arguing over the skill and the skill line in general that is already confirmed to be completely changed in the upcoming chapter?

Yeah in june, thats a long time and we dont even know If this skill is "fixed" by then. Until then i have to see vampire drain everywhere, every death recap, every magicka toon i meet, in my dreams after i go to sleep, there is no escape. I see this skill more in death recap then mages wrath

Yeah, please leave the game because WIP is not good enough for you.

Karmanorway

ZonasArch wrote: »

High dot, op? This is a channel... You can't drop this skill, let it work passively (dot) and go use another skill. The damage from this skill is pretty low actually.

Channels are not just DoTs. Or do you see Templars using Jesus Beam and a javelin or jabs at the same time?

You're too biased. L2p issue... And I don't even use this skill on PvP, mind you. I'm literally always on the receiving end for that one and I still don't mind it as it is... Nobody uses this crap. People are making a storm out of it just because they don't wanna block, just roll roll roll away. This means l2p...

I call it dot because its damage over time, every 0,7 secs, u cant LoS it either, the dmg cant be blocked, and the ones that use it doesnt need to drop it and use other skills, because they already popped some shalks/permafrost/colossus/anything cheese to hit u exactly at the same time as u are stunned and need to break free 3 times in a row to actually get free

Btw i get 9 - 12k dmg from drain alone, thats high dmg for me

Karmanorway

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Karmanorway wrote: »

RefLiberty wrote: »

You are really arguing over the skill and the skill line in general that is already confirmed to be completely changed in the upcoming chapter?

Yeah in june, thats a long time and we dont even know If this skill is "fixed" by then. Until then i have to see vampire drain everywhere, every death recap, every magicka toon i meet, in my dreams after i go to sleep, there is no escape. I see this skill more in death recap then mages wrath

Yeah, please leave the game because WIP is not good enough for you.

Constructive...

PuddingZebra

The only time i have an issue with Vamp drain is when there's 200+ Ping in cyrodiil.
I run mostly stam classes and im either in BG's, Cyro (NonCP) or IC (CP, sometimes nonCP) for about 95% of my playtime and i've yet to encounter a situation in where i thought "Gee. Vamp drain is too strong. let's complain about it on the forums".

I think if you're getting recaps of between 9-12K from drain alone... I have no idea what you're running.
Zero impen 7 medium ?

Yeah, CC can be pretty buggy especially in laggy situations. But name a C...actually name anything that works like intended in this game with the lag Cyro receives sometimes.

If you get countered so often by vamp drain, you might wanna take a step back from PvP, press i, look at your gear setup and evaluate why this could be the case. Maybe it's your spell resists? maybe it's your (low) stamina pool or regen? Maybe it's your (lack of) impen traits?

Also; Immovable pots are amazing

Karmanorway

PuddingZebra wrote: »

The only time i have an issue with Vamp drain is when there's 200+ Ping in cyrodiil.
I run mostly stam classes and im either in BG's, Cyro (NonCP) or IC (CP, sometimes nonCP) for about 95% of my playtime and i've yet to encounter a situation in where i thought "Gee. Vamp drain is too strong. let's complain about it on the forums".

I think if you're getting recaps of between 9-12K from drain alone... I have no idea what you're running.
Zero impen 7 medium ?

Yeah, CC can be pretty buggy especially in laggy situations. But name a C...actually name anything that works like intended in this game with the lag Cyro receives sometimes.

If you get countered so often by vamp drain, you might wanna take a step back from PvP, press i, look at your gear setup and evaluate why this could be the case. Maybe it's your spell resists? maybe it's your (low) stamina pool or regen? Maybe it's your (lack of) impen traits?

Also; Immovable pots are amazing

2xBloodspawn
5xNew moon Acolyte
5xFury
Blackrose dw backbar
All gold impen
Stamsorc no sustain issues
27k resists
3k crit resist
6k wep dmg so strong heals

DarkStrifeYT

Karmanorway wrote: »

When i ask they fix the skill so many players dont get why i have a problem with the skill, so here goes:

*U cant dodge it
*It goes through your block
*Drain follow u through walls
*U can interrupt the skill, but it has cooldown for next interrupt.

*It is a high dot skill pluss it heals your enemy (wait, i thought dots in itself was a problem few patches ago?)

*It is an abused zerging tool, this skill is the reason why u are hit with 50 ultis at the same time when u are busy breaking free.

*The trash can be animation canceled

*Well timed with colossus/shalks/zaan use your imagination, this quickly becomes a oneshot skill

*It is extremely clunky to break free from, NBs old fear was a problem, why isnt drain a problem too considering it damage your enemy AND heal u at the same time????

*Why not burst down the enemy when he is draining u say? Because majority thats use it are necros and magdens, If u have so much damage u can burst them down solo then well idk what to say..

My friends are leaving because of the abuse of this skill and im considering about joining them, just because of this ONE skill.

Now to the fun part, i would love if ppl tell me why this skill is useless, and what the ppl that spams it all the time have to say to defend it 🙂

Why not become a vampire and use drain for yourself?

Karmanorway

NathanTheWolf wrote: »

Karmanorway wrote: »

When i ask they fix the skill so many players dont get why i have a problem with the skill, so here goes:

*U cant dodge it
*It goes through your block
*Drain follow u through walls
*U can interrupt the skill, but it has cooldown for next interrupt.

*It is a high dot skill pluss it heals your enemy (wait, i thought dots in itself was a problem few patches ago?)

*It is an abused zerging tool, this skill is the reason why u are hit with 50 ultis at the same time when u are busy breaking free.

*The trash can be animation canceled

*Well timed with colossus/shalks/zaan use your imagination, this quickly becomes a oneshot skill

*It is extremely clunky to break free from, NBs old fear was a problem, why isnt drain a problem too considering it damage your enemy AND heal u at the same time????

*Why not burst down the enemy when he is draining u say? Because majority thats use it are necros and magdens, If u have so much damage u can burst them down solo then well idk what to say..

My friends are leaving because of the abuse of this skill and im considering about joining them, just because of this ONE skill.

Now to the fun part, i would love if ppl tell me why this skill is useless, and what the ppl that spams it all the time have to say to defend it 🙂

Why not become a vampire and use drain for yourself?

I have a vamp magden that i havent used for a year, im thinking about showing why this skill is so OP. But crutch on it? Nah that will only reduce pvp skills when they finally remove it

PuddingZebra

Karmanorway wrote: »

2xBloodspawn
5xNew moon Acolyte
5xFury
Blackrose dw backbar
All gold impen
Stamsorc no sustain issues
27k resists
3k crit resist
6k wep dmg so strong heals

Then i don't see why you'd have an issue with vamp drain. Especially in nonCP.
Also correct me if im wrong; but i believe they made weapon damage less of a deciding factor when it comes to stamina heals. (not sure when. was a while ago.) What's your stamina pool at?

Also have you tried Immov pots?
Also² I've noticed a bug with NMA where for some reason the cost of breakfree is very inconsistent after a while. Re-equipping the 5 piece can help. Especially if you have NMA on a non-permanent source. (front bar)
this can cause issues with breakfree's stat check when you try to break free. (For example it showing you have enough stamina, but the cost being wonky due to NMA prevents the break)

EDIT for clarity:
Example of how wonky NMA is:
Cost of Rally before re-equipping NMA ( after a few hours of Cyro)
https://imgur.com/3NKrAR1

Cost of rally AFTER re-equipping NMA:
https://imgur.com/a/MTp5Ndx

Ratzkifal

Well this skill won't exist in Greymoor anymore. It might be fixed next patch already, but even if not, there is a silver lining.

Karmanorway

PuddingZebra wrote: »

Karmanorway wrote: »

2xBloodspawn
5xNew moon Acolyte
5xFury
Blackrose dw backbar
All gold impen
Stamsorc no sustain issues
27k resists
3k crit resist
6k wep dmg so strong heals

Then i don't see why you'd have an issue with vamp drain. Especially in nonCP.
Also correct me if im wrong; but i believe they made weapon damage less of a deciding factor when it comes to stamina heals. (not sure when. was a while ago.) What's your stamina pool at?

Also have you tried Immov pots?
Also² I've noticed a bug with NMA where for some reason the cost of breakfree is very inconsistent after a while. Re-equipping the 5 piece can help. Especially if you have NMA on a non-permanent source. (front bar)
this can cause issues with breakfree's stat check when you try to break free. (For example it showing you have enough stamina, but the cost being wonky due to NMA prevents the break)

Yea i have NMA nirn maul front bar and use immov pots, i have 34k stam 1.3k stam regen, 20k hp outside cyro.

Its the fact that its difficult to break free from the stun and being hit by shalks and other stuff at the same time. And when your low hp the beam follows you through walls If u try LoS

Olupajmibanan

Enough would be making stun tied to the channel. Because 99% players use drain only for the CC and immediately block cancel the skill. I think that the stun should end just at the time you stop your channel.