State of ESO on the Mac 2020

idk

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

demerdecanswrath wrote: »

Letter from Mac - ESO's future Mac support :

As most Mac users know, last summer Apple announced that new Macs will no longer be built with Intel CPUs. Instead, new Macs will utilize a new custom-built ARM CPU going forward. The first of these devices was announced earlier this month at an Apple event.

Please be aware that these new ARM-based Macs cannot run software created for Intel-based computers. Additionally, these new machines will not support Boot Camp either, so you cannot dual boot an ARM-based Mac into Windows. This means that all software running on the new Macs must either be re-written for ARM or must run through an emulator. X86 emulation comes with a significant performance impact—in general, emulation is okay for software like office productivity apps, but not for gaming.

All of this puts a burden on software developers like ZOS to port their products to the new architecture. It is a huge undertaking to port a product as old, large, and complex as ESO to a new CPU, with no certain outcome of success. Because of these factors, we will not be porting ESO to run on the new ARM-based Macs. ESO will continue to run on Intel-based Macs, and we will support it as long as there is a large enough Mac user base to warrant it. While it will be technically possible to run ESO via x86 emulation on the new Macs, expect a subpar gaming experience that we will not officially support.

If you purchase a new ARM-based Mac, you will still have some options to play ESO. The most obvious one is that you can log into your account from any PC (or Intel-based Mac) and still be able to play with all of your account and character data. You also have the option of playing (with your current account and characters) on Stadia, a cloud-streaming service that uses the same servers as your current Mac-based accounts—so if you do use Stadia, you can continue to play uninterrupted with your existing account and character data.

Matt

Well, for a company that stands for inclusion and community, this screams hypocrisy.

I've been playing for 3 years. 2 of those years have been a financially overexploited, technically underdeveloped nightmare of an Elder Scrolls game that pulls you in partly thanks to the original TES nostalgia.

^ I'll leave this review wherever I can, hoping to get someone's head straight. Rot in hell, ZoS.

Lol seriously ?
That’s their official response about apple taking a leap and huge gamble for ditching the ancient x86 ????
By switch the game to arm based they could even port their game easily to iOS & tvOS which are huge

You clearly state Apple is taking a gamble. That gamble is that enough content and application creators will feel it is worth taking the gamble to port their game to the new Apple platform. After all, it is a gamble Apple is taking.

In the end, Apple made a business decision and Zos made a business decision. Business decisions come with risks.

thedavidventer

idk wrote: »

You clearly state Apple is taking a gamble. That gamble is that enough content and application creators will feel it is worth taking the gamble to port their game to the new Apple platform. After all, it is a gamble Apple is taking.

Many have already made the switch. Case in point: World of Warcraft. Already supports M1, incl. native Metal instead of using MoltenVK. And... Full controller support on macOS. Yes, you can now play WoW with a wireless controller on macOS, no third-party drivers or apps required. Just connect your controller via bluetooth, and boom, it works in WoW. Granted, WoW is not ideal for controller gameplay but you can easily set up your own macros and key binds to make things work.

ESO on the other hand can't even get fullscreen or controller functionality right. The Steam overlay doesn't even work on the macOS game client for buying crowns while in game. The Metal support is sub-par due to not using Metal but rather MoltenVK, and ZoS' general anti-Apple "PC master race" mentality means that they don't even bother with Apple's latest Controller framework tech because they clearly haven't read developer documentation or even watched a single WWDC Keynote in the past 5 years otherwise, why are they still responding to Mac support tickets with irrelevant and out-dated copy/paste solutions from 5 years ago?

It's clear that ZOS doesn't even look at Apple's developer documentation. The Gamekit API, Controller Framework, Metal API etc. documentation provides everything they need in order to make the game run really well on macOS, they're just flat out ignoring it with zero interest to even keep up to date with the latest tech. WHY?! It's tragic really.

Also, ESO DOES run on the M1 thanks to Rosetta, albeit even more buggy, and Rosetta is not really an "emulator" as ZOS stated in their ignorant article. It translates the code in the same way that MoltenVK translates Vulkan to Metal. It doesn't run like a separate OS emulator like, for example, Parallels, VMware or whatever.

ZOS also mentioned Stadia as an alternative to play on Mac, which is great, except that Stadia isn't available in all countries. And if you use a VPN to force availability, it works, I've tried it, but due to the distance and latency it's blurry, frequently disconnects, and is generally unplayable. So Stadia is not an option for everyone. I just wish ZOS wasn't so anti-Apple with their ignorant "PC master race" mentality. The notion that Macs aren't great for gaming is ignorant. The truth is that some developers just don't bother staying informed with what's possible.

I've come to the realization that the ZOS team just doesn't care about the Mac, despite there being no reason for them not to. If low macOS gamer numbers is their reason; that's only because the macOS game client is absolute trash and most macOS gamers that want to try the game can't even install it properly due to the installer requiring an unnecessarily large amount of space. I've had a few friends who wanted to play with me buy the game through steam and ended up having to get refunds because they couldn't even install the game on their Macs, even though they had plenty more space available than the minimum requirements, but the installer required way more than stipulated. it's ridiculous.

TL;DR: ZoS is ignorant/lazy when it comes to macOS and they simply don't care to even look at Apple's developer documentation. The macOS game client is just a buggy money grabbing after-thought. ZoS is your typical anti-Apple and grossly misinformed "PC Master race" squad.

thedavidventer

demerdecanswrath wrote: »

ZoS has no excuse they're just being milk drinkers.

100% Accurate.

soulferin

I cannot agree more. In fact so quick reaction to M1 is clearly information ZOS don't want this problem. I have no idea what we can do about it. The only thing I've done was stop playing but it's definitely not a solution. I'm just wondering is this really so complicated to support metal and then M1? How many people You need to really support Mac client?

Rasoma

I'd not say that ZoS is anti-mac at all - if they were then this would NEVER have been released on the Mac to begin with.

I think the problem more is related to the implementation they embarked upon for the game client on the Mac and the need for it to most probably have a dedicated team working solely upon it (as I doubt they produce any other Mac content).

I get it that people are disappointed that there will be no M1 support but nobody is really surprised by that. We do however have probably several years still of adventuring on the current client until the plug is finally pulled.

Wookyenub18_ESO

If you do Trials or want to be competitive in PvP you might want to read the below. Otherwise, happy gaming on Mac.

The new Intel 10th Gen CPUs and Nvidia and AMD graphics cards draw so much power and generate so much heat I don't see how Apple could ever put them in an iMac anyway.

Due to stuttering in Mac OS X on my iMac 5K in 1440p, this year I switched to playing ESO under Bootcamp and Windows 10. The experience was good, but even something as simple as lock-picking felt janky.

I just bought an Alienware R11 w/ Intel i9 10900KF and Nvidia RTX 3080. At 1440p 120Hz widescreen, lock-picking is smooth and I can now pick Master locks with seconds to spare. Riding in Cyrodiil at 115 FPS; combat varies round 75 FPS. But the liquid-cooled CPU cores reach 81 degrees C and the GPU alone draws 325 Watts. I can't run benchmarks yet because my 1000VA UPS can't handle the power draw.

One of the things I learnt from this is that ESO is not just demanding on GPU, but also CPU, hitting 100% at some point on all 20 Hyper-threads. Even this system is not near the specs you'd want for smooth 4K (UHD) gaming, so the power and cooling requirements could get a lot higher.

Looking at the benchmarks, the Mac versions of GPUs that AMD created for Apple have exceptional performance relative to the base models, but as explained above, after gaming on Apple for 43 years, I don't see myself able to game on Mac in the future.

Atlan_daGonozal

Wookyenub18_ESO wrote: »

after gaming on Apple for 43 years, I don't see myself able to game on Mac in the future.

Same here. I might buy one more x86 iMac and then switch for to a Gaming PC + macMini. Which means the KVM switch returns to my desk in 3 … 5 years

BlueRaven

Atlan_daGonozal wrote: »

Wookyenub18_ESO wrote: »

after gaming on Apple for 43 years, I don't see myself able to game on Mac in the future.

Same here. I might buy one more x86 iMac and then switch for to a Gaming PC + macMini. Which means the KVM switch returns to my desk in 3 … 5 years

I am not letting zos dictate my computer, (and I need a Mac for work anyway).

When I get my next Mac (which will probably be a new chip one) I will try playing eso on it. I don’t care if it’s not officially supported, it’s not like I get much help from customer support anyway.
Beyond moving an occasional stuck character, they have been of no use to me. Most of my “fixes” have come from talking with other players.

Anyway I did not get a pc to play swtor and I am not doing it for this game either.

Atlan_daGonozal

@BlueRaven You are free to make your own decisions. You are not free to question mine. My decision are mine and mine alone. Besides, it's a few years out and who knows what the landscape is then.

BlueRaven

Atlan_daGonozal wrote: »

@BlueRaven You are free to make your own decisions. You are not free to question mine. My decision are mine and mine alone. Besides, it's a few years out and who knows what the landscape is then.

Umm, I did not suggest what you should do in any way, I am just stating I am not getting a PC.
If you want a pc, get a pc, it’s not like Apple gives me a commission. But I need a Mac for work, this is non-negotiable fact.

Good luck!

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO

thedavidventer wrote: »

idk wrote: »

You clearly state Apple is taking a gamble. That gamble is that enough content and application creators will feel it is worth taking the gamble to port their game to the new Apple platform. After all, it is a gamble Apple is taking.

Many have already made the switch. Case in point: World of Warcraft. Already supports M1, incl. native Metal instead of using MoltenVK. And... Full controller support on macOS. Yes, you can now play WoW with a wireless controller on macOS, no third-party drivers or apps required. Just connect your controller via bluetooth, and boom, it works in WoW. Granted, WoW is not ideal for controller gameplay but you can easily set up your own macros and key binds to make things work.

ESO on the other hand can't even get fullscreen or controller functionality right. The Steam overlay doesn't even work on the macOS game client for buying crowns while in game. The Metal support is sub-par due to not using Metal but rather MoltenVK, and ZoS' general anti-Apple "PC master race" mentality means that they don't even bother with Apple's latest Controller framework tech because they clearly haven't read developer documentation or even watched a single WWDC Keynote in the past 5 years otherwise, why are they still responding to Mac support tickets with irrelevant and out-dated copy/paste solutions from 5 years ago?

It's clear that ZOS doesn't even look at Apple's developer documentation. The Gamekit API, Controller Framework, Metal API etc. documentation provides everything they need in order to make the game run really well on macOS, they're just flat out ignoring it with zero interest to even keep up to date with the latest tech. WHY?! It's tragic really.

Also, ESO DOES run on the M1 thanks to Rosetta, albeit even more buggy, and Rosetta is not really an "emulator" as ZOS stated in their ignorant article. It translates the code in the same way that MoltenVK translates Vulkan to Metal. It doesn't run like a separate OS emulator like, for example, Parallels, VMware or whatever.

ZOS also mentioned Stadia as an alternative to play on Mac, which is great, except that Stadia isn't available in all countries. And if you use a VPN to force availability, it works, I've tried it, but due to the distance and latency it's blurry, frequently disconnects, and is generally unplayable. So Stadia is not an option for everyone. I just wish ZOS wasn't so anti-Apple with their ignorant "PC master race" mentality. The notion that Macs aren't great for gaming is ignorant. The truth is that some developers just don't bother staying informed with what's possible.

I've come to the realization that the ZOS team just doesn't care about the Mac, despite there being no reason for them not to. If low macOS gamer numbers is their reason; that's only because the macOS game client is absolute trash and most macOS gamers that want to try the game can't even install it properly due to the installer requiring an unnecessarily large amount of space. I've had a few friends who wanted to play with me buy the game through steam and ended up having to get refunds because they couldn't even install the game on their Macs, even though they had plenty more space available than the minimum requirements, but the installer required way more than stipulated. it's ridiculous.

TL;DR: ZoS is ignorant/lazy when it comes to macOS and they simply don't care to even look at Apple's developer documentation. The macOS game client is just a buggy money grabbing after-thought. ZoS is your typical anti-Apple and grossly misinformed "PC Master race" squad.

lol you were exaggerated about it , the game doesn't even have official controller support , wtf ?

elfeagle

The gameplay, lore, quests, and overall content of ESO is absolutely amazing.

I just wish I could actually play it. Too many things are broken on Mac. The responses from support are clearly from a bot that hasn't even been updated in 3 years.

They advertise gamepad support but DualShock controllers have the right trigger as block and left trigger as nothing while the xbox controllers have every button except the thumbsticks broken.

I can deal with the lag, glitches, broken pixels, lack of 4k support, and all the other minor (major) inconveniences but the gamepad issue I cannot tolerate.
It exist on 100% of Macs and takes a whole 2 seconds to replicate. The players have been telling the devs exactly what to do to fix it and why it's broken for YEARS.
The gamepad support is so broken that it's not even partially usable. They should stop advertising it as a feature because it's not.

Most of these Mac issues could be fixed if they hired a single developer who actually knows stuff about Macs. I hope now that Microsoft owns the company they will actually fix some of these issues and not present they don't exist like Zenimax has been doing for years.

thedavidventer

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

thedavidventer wrote: »

idk wrote: »

You clearly state Apple is taking a gamble. That gamble is that enough content and application creators will feel it is worth taking the gamble to port their game to the new Apple platform. After all, it is a gamble Apple is taking.

Many have already made the switch. Case in point: World of Warcraft. Already supports M1, incl. native Metal instead of using MoltenVK. And... Full controller support on macOS. Yes, you can now play WoW with a wireless controller on macOS, no third-party drivers or apps required. Just connect your controller via bluetooth, and boom, it works in WoW. Granted, WoW is not ideal for controller gameplay but you can easily set up your own macros and key binds to make things work.

ESO on the other hand can't even get fullscreen or controller functionality right. The Steam overlay doesn't even work on the macOS game client for buying crowns while in game. The Metal support is sub-par due to not using Metal but rather MoltenVK, and ZoS' general anti-Apple "PC master race" mentality means that they don't even bother with Apple's latest Controller framework tech because they clearly haven't read developer documentation or even watched a single WWDC Keynote in the past 5 years otherwise, why are they still responding to Mac support tickets with irrelevant and out-dated copy/paste solutions from 5 years ago?

It's clear that ZOS doesn't even look at Apple's developer documentation. The Gamekit API, Controller Framework, Metal API etc. documentation provides everything they need in order to make the game run really well on macOS, they're just flat out ignoring it with zero interest to even keep up to date with the latest tech. WHY?! It's tragic really.

Also, ESO DOES run on the M1 thanks to Rosetta, albeit even more buggy, and Rosetta is not really an "emulator" as ZOS stated in their ignorant article. It translates the code in the same way that MoltenVK translates Vulkan to Metal. It doesn't run like a separate OS emulator like, for example, Parallels, VMware or whatever.

ZOS also mentioned Stadia as an alternative to play on Mac, which is great, except that Stadia isn't available in all countries. And if you use a VPN to force availability, it works, I've tried it, but due to the distance and latency it's blurry, frequently disconnects, and is generally unplayable. So Stadia is not an option for everyone. I just wish ZOS wasn't so anti-Apple with their ignorant "PC master race" mentality. The notion that Macs aren't great for gaming is ignorant. The truth is that some developers just don't bother staying informed with what's possible.

I've come to the realization that the ZOS team just doesn't care about the Mac, despite there being no reason for them not to. If low macOS gamer numbers is their reason; that's only because the macOS game client is absolute trash and most macOS gamers that want to try the game can't even install it properly due to the installer requiring an unnecessarily large amount of space. I've had a few friends who wanted to play with me buy the game through steam and ended up having to get refunds because they couldn't even install the game on their Macs, even though they had plenty more space available than the minimum requirements, but the installer required way more than stipulated. it's ridiculous.

TL;DR: ZoS is ignorant/lazy when it comes to macOS and they simply don't care to even look at Apple's developer documentation. The macOS game client is just a buggy money grabbing after-thought. ZoS is your typical anti-Apple and grossly misinformed "PC Master race" squad.

lol you were exaggerated about it , the game doesn't even have official controller support , wtf ?

@henrycupcakerwb17_ESO - I’m not exaggerating. You CAN play WoW with a native controller support. You just have to enable it by typing “/console GamePadEnable 1” into the chat box and then map your controls through the keybinds. See this thread: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/guide-to-the-new-gamepadcontroller-support-in-901/683913

Crazy that it works in WoW and WoW wasn’t even made with controller gameplay in mind, yet on ESO, which is made for controller gameplay, the devs don’t bother fixing it even though they’ve been provided with all the details on how to fix it. I wish ESO was on the level of WoW with macOS integration.

eMKa8

@demerdecanswrath @thedavidventer

You know what is really annoying. Not knowing what the future brings for Mac players. I have the impression that 2 or 3 updates from now the game will be unplayable for mac users ... and knowing that that might happen kind of ruins the game for me at the moment.

I mean investing a lot of time and playtime and adoration for the game .... while knowing you wont be able to play anymore in a couple of months ...? That just is a mental problem ;-)

I would hate to fully love the game and play very intensively if i already know it will have to end at some point ....

And about the service and feedback.
It is really not good that ZoS is barely reading these forums .... and it is a actually an insult when they reply to a ticket with their favorite solutions being:
- re install the game
- Delete all addons
- Repair client

Like that ever worked for anyone on the issues mentioned. Also , its their response and solution to EVERY issue.

Are there any good laptops that can run games like eso smoothly? My wife wont like it if i bought a fix microsoft computer because it isnt “design” enough for the living room (hence why we have a Mac 🖥 😂😂😂😂)

sean.plackerb14_ESO

I'm not a Mac player, but I was doing some research and found something interesting. I'm sorry if it's been pointed out before in this thread already.

As most Mac users posting here probably know ZOS switched the Mac client renderer from using OpenGL (understandable since Apple has deprecated the OpenGL API on MacOS) to using Vulkan via a wrapper called MoltenVK that translates Vulkan API calls to Metal API calls.

I'm sure M1 support has been a question and concern for Mac users. Turns out MoltenVK 1.1.1 which was released December 2020, adds support for Apple silicon GPUs (as well as Vulkan 1.1 instead of only Vulkan 1.0).

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-Silicon-Vulkan-MoltenVK

So, if ZOS wants to continue to support the Mac as a client for ESO there is not a technical reason they cannot. I'm not saying I claim to know how easy or hard it would be for them as more of the Mac hardware transitions to Apple Silicon. But it is possible for them to do.

keto3000

sean.plackerb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a Mac player, but I was doing some research and found something interesting. I'm sorry if it's been pointed out before in this thread already.

As most Mac users posting here probably know ZOS switched the Mac client renderer from using OpenGL (understandable since Apple has deprecated the OpenGL API on MacOS) to using Vulkan via a wrapper called MoltenVK that translates Vulkan API calls to Metal API calls.

I'm sure M1 support has been a question and concern for Mac users. Turns out MoltenVK 1.1.1 which was released December 2020, adds support for Apple silicon GPUs (as well as Vulkan 1.1 instead of only Vulkan 1.0).

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-Silicon-Vulkan-MoltenVK

So, if ZOS wants to continue to support the Mac as a client for ESO there is not a technical reason they cannot. I'm not saying I claim to know how easy or hard it would be for them as more of the Mac hardware transitions to Apple Silicon. But it is possible for them to do.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My 2013 27" imac struggled in 2014-15 with frequently crashes due to intensive lightning/resto healing battles and ofc thwe 32-bi9t client. Once ZOS caught up and got us 64-bit support my old imac outprforms amny of my friends on newer pcs. Even windows is well known to be more stable on mac architecture than it is on PCs.

Few crashes, 60-100+ fr and norm/low ping are the usual. The lag still has issues in big battles or high peak times in pvp open field but otherwise it's run smoothly for 5 yrs now.

Given the above-mentioned MoltenVK 1.1.1 and Vulkan1.0 support for Apple silicon GPUs, pointed out by OP, I hope ZOS will directly comment on this updated info.

Inoki

Frankly, this is all very disappointing to learn. Especially the fact that WoW made their Mac client for a 20+ y.o. game available the day the M1 came out.

Could the recent Bethesda acquisition by Microsoft be behind this?

If they don't want to maintain the client, then they should at least add the game to GeForce NOW again and enable add-ons. That would solve all problems.

I will migrate to the Mac, and if they will not properly support it, especially because nothing is preventing them from doing so, I will stop playing this game and look for alternatives. I have sunk thousands of hours into it, yes, and a (very) decent amount of money, but their stance only shows they are not worth our money and our time.

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO

BlueRaven wrote: »

Atlan_daGonozal wrote: »

Wookyenub18_ESO wrote: »

after gaming on Apple for 43 years, I don't see myself able to game on Mac in the future.

Same here. I might buy one more x86 iMac and then switch for to a Gaming PC + macMini. Which means the KVM switch returns to my desk in 3 … 5 years

I am not letting zos dictate my computer, (and I need a Mac for work anyway).

When I get my next Mac (which will probably be a new chip one) I will try playing eso on it. I don’t care if it’s not officially supported, it’s not like I get much help from customer support anyway.
Beyond moving an occasional stuck character, they have been of no use to me. Most of my “fixes” have come from talking with other players.

Anyway I did not get a pc to play swtor and I am not doing it for this game either.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Atlan_daGonozal wrote: »

Wookyenub18_ESO wrote: »

after gaming on Apple for 43 years, I don't see myself able to game on Mac in the future.

Same here. I might buy one more x86 iMac and then switch for to a Gaming PC + macMini. Which means the KVM switch returns to my desk in 3 … 5 years

I wish there are more people like you …
I was so tired at standing against stupid companies like these for years , finally I bend my knee and bought parallel 17 to play Everquest on my mac

At least it run windows just like an extra app on macOS and I am not being forced to boot camp that *** on my computer

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO

sean.plackerb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a Mac player, but I was doing some research and found something interesting. I'm sorry if it's been pointed out before in this thread already.

As most Mac users posting here probably know ZOS switched the Mac client renderer from using OpenGL (understandable since Apple has deprecated the OpenGL API on MacOS) to using Vulkan via a wrapper called MoltenVK that translates Vulkan API calls to Metal API calls.

I'm sure M1 support has been a question and concern for Mac users. Turns out MoltenVK 1.1.1 which was released December 2020, adds support for Apple silicon GPUs (as well as Vulkan 1.1 instead of only Vulkan 1.0).

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-Silicon-Vulkan-MoltenVK

So, if ZOS wants to continue to support the Mac as a client for ESO there is not a technical reason they cannot. I'm not saying I claim to know how easy or hard it would be for them as more of the Mac hardware transitions to Apple Silicon. But it is possible for them to do.

Oops ! ZOS is not gonna like it if you guys keep digging out the truth and you are cornering them into throwing out more lame ass excuses

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO

thedavidventer wrote: »

Gattopardo wrote: »

thedavidventer wrote: »

I'm sure the macOS support will continue

I'm not so sure about that, if they get the starting issues out of the Stadia version, they have the best excuse to get rid of the mac client, in the end they haven't done proper maintenance on the client for years, and in the new patch notes there is nothing that actually fixes any issues (only thing is the random new graphic option), so maybe they keep it alive for a few more patches but with Microsoft buying them, I think it's the beginning of the end for the mac client esp with Apple moving to their Silicon chips in the future
But I'm happy to be proven wrong and get a fixed client at some point

Microsoft has a good relationship with Apple. Their apps for macOS and iOS (Office 365, Microsoft Selfie, Skype, Edge, ZOOM, etc.) always use the latest Apple API’s and they’re working on an Xbox remote play app for iOS (not the game streaming service, just a remote play app that’ll allow you to play Xbox games you own from your own Xbox on your iPhone when connected to the same network, kinda like Steam Link). So I’m seriously hoping that with Microsoft in charge, that we’ll see some adoption of Apple’s new API’s in ESO for macOS so that we can have decent controller support and a functioning full screen experience. Here’s hoping.

lol do you see any Microsoft games being released on MacOS ? lololololo

sean.plackerb14_ESO

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

thedavidventer wrote: »

Gattopardo wrote: »

thedavidventer wrote: »

I'm sure the macOS support will continue

I'm not so sure about that, if they get the starting issues out of the Stadia version, they have the best excuse to get rid of the mac client, in the end they haven't done proper maintenance on the client for years, and in the new patch notes there is nothing that actually fixes any issues (only thing is the random new graphic option), so maybe they keep it alive for a few more patches but with Microsoft buying them, I think it's the beginning of the end for the mac client esp with Apple moving to their Silicon chips in the future
But I'm happy to be proven wrong and get a fixed client at some point

Microsoft has a good relationship with Apple. Their apps for macOS and iOS (Office 365, Microsoft Selfie, Skype, Edge, ZOOM, etc.) always use the latest Apple API’s and they’re working on an Xbox remote play app for iOS (not the game streaming service, just a remote play app that’ll allow you to play Xbox games you own from your own Xbox on your iPhone when connected to the same network, kinda like Steam Link). So I’m seriously hoping that with Microsoft in charge, that we’ll see some adoption of Apple’s new API’s in ESO for macOS so that we can have decent controller support and a functioning full screen experience. Here’s hoping.

lol do you see any Microsoft games being released on MacOS ? lololololo

No, but I don't think it's because "Microsoft hates the Mac". Do they compete with Apple in multiple markets? Of course. But let's be honest, how big is the Mac Gaming market? The latest Steam Hardware Survey of August 2021 shows MacOS making up 2.49 percent of the Steam hardware survey. How much more money would Microsoft have made on say Gears of War 5, or the last Forza Horizon game if it had a Mac version? Would the cost of not just developing, testing, and releasing a Mac build but supporting it post release as well been worth the profit made from people buying it just because there is a Mac version of the game?

Microsoft did ports of some of their games in the past. I remember Age of Empires 1, 2 and 3 getting Mac ports, Halo got a Mac release despite Bungie being owned by Microsoft before Halo released. Age of Mythology, Dungeon Siege as well. All of these games were ported to the Mac by MacSoft... who went out of business in 2011.

I'd say it's become obvious Microsoft cares less and less about what platform you play their games on with the Gamepass and streaming strategy. They would much rather have a customer subscribed to Gamepass Ultimate and streaming their games than sell them one copy of a game. They don't care if you use that Gamepass Ultimate sub to stream to a Windows PC, a Linux PC, a Mac, a tablet, or a smartphone.

I know streaming is not as nice as having a native client, no doubt about that. But it's far less of a financial investment than having a game ported to another platform.

As for ESO on Mac. I don't think Microsoft cares about that one either. ZOS has been treating the Mac client as a second-class citizen for years, long before Zenimax was bought by Microsoft. It continues to do so though, the "Multithreaded Rendering" feature we got on PC with update 31 which makes a significant difference in terms of FPS stability wasn't brought to the Mac client. Nor to Stadia because that is a Linux ESO client since the Stadia servers run Debian Linux and require a Linux build of the game.

Honestly and sadly once Apple finishes making the transition to the Apple Silicon, I'm expecting ZOS to announce Mac support is being dropped. I don't think they consider the money spent on the Mac client to be worth it to them from a business standpoint. They can obviously tell how big their player base of Mac users is from telemetry data. If it was large enough it would be better supported.

Inoki

sean.plackerb14_ESO wrote: »

I know streaming is not as nice as having a native client, no doubt about that. But it's far less of a financial investment than having a game ported to another platform.

This is where you're completely wrong. I'm a cloud gamer, and what you just said screams of ignorance.

Cloud gaming is in fact the future of gaming. I'm on a Mac, and as a Cloud gamer it doesn't matter what I run, or whether I have a high-end computer that could run the game I want to play. All boundaries, all limitations are gone.

With a physical machine that you have to own there are so many drawbacks it would make such a long list that it would stretch this post very long, while I can make it very short for you - with cloud gaming, all you need is a good internet connection.

You don't have to worry about downloading hundreds of gigabytes of game data, constant updates, whether you own the right hardware... nothing. Even my latency in games is often better than that of those who run the game locally! You just launch the game, and play, as if you were launching a movie on Netflix. And I get to enjoy gaming like I have never enjoyed it before in my entire life! Every game, always maxed, because NVIDIA's computers are very powerful, because... well, it's NVIDIA.

For some reason people still want to invest thousands upon thousands every 2 - 3 years into a physical computer they have to upgrade every time something new comes out, which is quite often 🤣 I call that madness.

NetherClawSr

Fully agree with Inoki. Cloud gaming works almost flawlessly on all devices. Gaming on iPad with ps4 controller is traveling light. Only downside is that there are no addons possible. At least not with Google Stadia.

thedavidventer

NetherClawSr wrote: »

Fully agree with Inoki. Cloud gaming works almost flawlessly on all devices. Gaming on iPad with ps4 controller is traveling light. Only downside is that there are no addons possible. At least not with Google Stadia.

Another downside is that Cloud Gaming isn’t available everywhere and will probably never be available (or at least not any time soon) in certain places, like where I’m from - South Africa. So I’m stuck with using a terribly neglected macOS game client or forced to play through Bootcamp. Not ideal. I mean, the least they can do is fix gamepad input and full screen support. But no, they can’t even do the very least. Would not recommend the macOS game client to anyone. If you have access to cloud gaming, do that instead.

Inoki

<Please remove, accidental double-post.>

Inoki

NetherClawSr wrote: »

Another downside is that Cloud Gaming isn’t available everywhere.

A VPN actually may solve this for you. Try connecting to GeForce NOW with a fast VPN, because you can actually try out the service fully without paying for it, every day for one hour of gaming, but because you don't have paid membership you'll be placed in a queue. If that's not a biggie for you, you can try any game you already own by connecting your Steam or other account and try the game. You only need a fast connection, that's it!

When it comes to availability, Stadia is far worse. Google operates only in a few select countries world-wide. NVIDIA operates in these.

ZOS_Bill

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