Give me a bardclass/skill line!

TheShadowScout

Sergykid wrote: »

The musician is only a roleplay fantasy that can be satisfied by using the /flute /drum etc emotes. This is not a real combat soldier.

Yeah, riiiiiight... because it has -never- in the history of warfare happened to have people with musical instruments on the battlefield, right?




Face facts, from roman horns to medieval trumpets to civil war drums to scottish bagpipes through the cneturies, warriors that were more then a charging mob have often used sound to communicate & coordinate, and thus often drafted people with the skill to make meaningful sounds (aka, musicians / bards) for the job.
Sure, they usually dropped their instrument and weapon-swapped to something more swordy when the fighting actually came to them, but that is not exactly impossible in ESO, is it now?

It gets even more interesting when you go past "combat soldiers" and for "adventurers" because there the "Travelling Ministrel" or "Bard" is an often seen archetype, pretty much the medieval equivalent of spy story character... since bards did travel freely, they often were employed to gather information, carry messages, do a little spying on the side, perhaps the occasional subterfuge... and often also lots of seduction, as they tended to be new faces, exciing, charismatic and most of all... soon gone usually never to return, just the thing for bored nobles wives and daughters whose husband or betrothed is off crusading to have a fling with.
Naturally that became a classic in fantasy settings! Be it novels (I would recommend tracking down The "Bardic Voices" series for those who like bard stories!) or roleplaying games (D&D had "Bards" as a character class sor like... decades!), the bads stereotype is a -classic- for those less interested in pure fighting and more in sneaking, charming, and other loveable rogue type activities in their character setup!

Sergykid wrote: »

I am sure there are other relevant things like a dwemer tinkerer skill line or unarmed monk or one hand and rune or alteration illusion etc staves.

Akktschually...
..."Bard" would be -way- more TES-relevant then dwemer tinkerer!
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Classes#Bard
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Classes
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Bard
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes#Bard
See above, it IS a RPG classic, and it would make a LOT of sense for ESO to give people at least some bardishness. And it would make a -perfect- skill line much like Psijic, a extra guild one can join for some support spellsong abilities, for those who like that sort of gameplay!
...which in turn might lead them to make more such guilds, including some more suited for those that want some stamina support warrior guild for their characters to make them more soldierly! Just sayin.

Ysbriel

@TheShadowScout How could you forget about this time in history?

Nanfoodle

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

So your thoughts on not wanting new classes should halt the progress of the game till your Rdy?

Again, don't misunderstand.
I am ALL for progress of the game!
I am ALL for new stuff and for more options!
I mean, just look at my "usual link-to" discussions:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/492733/class-specialization-idea/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371862/additional-weapon-skill-ideas-mk-ii/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387560/additional-guild-ideas-mk-ii
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422285/new-player-race-possibilities/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/442350/character-background-passives
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/500530/worship-in-tamriel-ideas
All that is -way- more progress then adding another class, AND its progress that every character might benefit from, one way or another, no natter if newly made or played since launch!

I just am AGAINST simply adding yet

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

The musician is only a roleplay fantasy that can be satisfied by using the /flute /drum etc emotes. This is not a real combat soldier.

Yeah, riiiiiight... because it has -never- in the history of warfare happened to have people with musical instruments on the battlefield, right?




Face facts, from roman horns to medieval trumpets to civil war drums to scottish bagpipes through the cneturies, warriors that were more then a charging mob have often used sound to communicate & coordinate, and thus often drafted people with the skill to make meaningful sounds (aka, musicians / bards) for the job.
Sure, they usually dropped their instrument and weapon-swapped to something more swordy when the fighting actually came to them, but that is not exactly impossible in ESO, is it now?

It gets even more interesting when you go past "combat soldiers" and for "adventurers" because there the "Travelling Ministrel" or "Bard" is an often seen archetype, pretty much the medieval equivalent of spy story character... since bards did travel freely, they often were employed to gather information, carry messages, do a little spying on the side, perhaps the occasional subterfuge... and often also lots of seduction, as they tended to be new faces, exciing, charismatic and most of all... soon gone usually never to return, just the thing for bored nobles wives and daughters whose husband or betrothed is off crusading to have a fling with.
Naturally that became a classic in fantasy settings! Be it novels (I would recommend tracking down The "Bardic Voices" series for those who like bard stories!) or roleplaying games (D&D had "Bards" as a character class sor like... decades!), the bads stereotype is a -classic- for those less interested in pure fighting and more in sneaking, charming, and other loveable rogue type activities in their character setup!

Sergykid wrote: »

I am sure there are other relevant things like a dwemer tinkerer skill line or unarmed monk or one hand and rune or alteration illusion etc staves.

Akktschually...
..."Bard" would be -way- more TES-relevant then dwemer tinkerer!
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Classes#Bard
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Classes
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Bard
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes#Bard
See above, it IS a RPG classic, and it would make a LOT of sense for ESO to give people at least some bardishness. And it would make a -perfect- skill line much like Psijic, a extra guild one can join for some support spellsong abilities, for those who like that sort of gameplay!
...which in turn might lead them to make more such guilds, including some more suited for those that want some stamina support warrior guild for their characters to make them more soldierly! Just sayin.

Awesome post

Ysbriel wrote: »

@TheShadowScout How could you forget about this time in history?

EXCELLENT!!! PARTY ON!!!

As for people going on about the sounds. You do get every class makes sounds. Every skill on every class makes a sound. Unlike the mess of explosions and swords clashing. They could make all Bard skills in the same Key or cord or scale and all Bard skills would blend together? Also no MMO has their Bard class make constant music, just like any class when a skill is done, the sound stops. Also just like every class in the game, a Bard would be using 30-60% of it skills from other skill line. Its a really sad argument.

Sergykid

@TheShadowScout sure there were people with musical instruments on the battlefield, but like one to 100 or more. If you add a class in ESO u'll see this everywhere even to soloers which makes no sense and so i go back to what i wrote previously which seems was ignored like usually happens.

a skill line is at most an option and that with difficulty, only if one or two spells actually involve instruments using

Bobby_V_Rockit

Bards are dumb, whats even the point of them? Spells through music? Bah! Half the spells in this game cost magicka, not music! MUSIC IS NOT A RESOURCE!!!

Vanos444

Lol! You might as well forget that class...
It will be generic as the tales told before, ysgramor times.

TheShadowScout

Sergykid wrote: »

If you add a class in ESO u'll see this everywhere even to soloers which makes no sense...

And I will add that as yet another reason NOT to make a bard -class-! Which I am arguing against anyhow.

But you seem to like to forget the "magic music" angle... the equation becomes somewhat different when the instrument isn't just for sound-based unit coordinatioon, but might fire off magical effects like any special weapon... much like the "one in a hundred" battlefield priest becomes a different animal if they can actually cast magical spells, yes?

Sergykid wrote: »

a skill line is at most an option and that with difficulty, only if one or two spells actually involve instruments using

Well, like I posted, I for one would definitely make it a skill line with ALL instrument-spellsongs... with the instrument as "alternate weapon", which they can weapon swap as needed, much like some characters can swap between their usual weapon setups... keep out the lute and the support magic up while in the back row, swap to sword or whatever weapon (one handed and magic would be sooo perfect for this!) they have when the fighting comes to them... not too different from other builds, like archers and such, yes?

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Bards are dumb, whats even the point of them? Spells through music? Bah! Half the spells in this game cost magicka, not music!

And spellsongs would -also- cost magica. Or possibly even a combination of magica and stamina, depends on the developers take on the idea... The only difference is that they would be -cast- through -music-, by playing an instrument and singing a mystical spellsong, instead through waving a staff and mumbling some arcane incantation like for mages...

Bobby_V_Rockit

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

If you add a class in ESO u'll see this everywhere even to soloers which makes no sense...

And I will add that as yet another reason NOT to make a bard -class-! Which I am arguing against anyhow.

But you seem to like to forget the "magic music" angle... the equation becomes somewhat different when the instrument isn't just for sound-based unit coordinatioon, but might fire off magical effects like any special weapon... much like the "one in a hundred" battlefield priest becomes a different animal if they can actually cast magical spells, yes?

Sergykid wrote: »

a skill line is at most an option and that with difficulty, only if one or two spells actually involve instruments using

Well, like I posted, I for one would definitely make it a skill line with ALL instrument-spellsongs... with the instrument as "alternate weapon", which they can weapon swap as needed, much like some characters can swap between their usual weapon setups... keep out the lute and the support magic up while in the back row, swap to sword or whatever weapon (one handed and magic would be sooo perfect for this!) they have when the fighting comes to them... not too different from other builds, like archers and such, yes?

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Bards are dumb, whats even the point of them? Spells through music? Bah! Half the spells in this game cost magicka, not music!

And spellsongs would -also- cost magica. Or possibly even a combination of magica and stamina, depends on the developers take on the idea... The only difference is that they would be -cast- through -music-, by playing an instrument and singing a mystical spellsong, instead through waving a staff and mumbling some arcane incantation like for mages...

Hate it, it will ruin the enjoyment of the game for anyone and everyone who doesn’t wanna hear doot dooting.

TheShadowScout

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Hate it, it will ruin the enjoyment of the game for anyone and everyone who doesn’t wanna hear doot dooting.

You mean like bunnyhoppoing characters ruin the game for everyone who doesn't wanna see bouncing balls on the battlefields?
Or like some super-awesome skins or mounts roun it for those who don#t want to see brightly glowing people (especially when they are frigging sneaking!) and mounts?
Or what about the "War Horn" skill doot-dooting around thats already there? Heck, even NPCs use that one!

Worst case, all they really need is a function to rurn down the volume of player generated sound effects for your ESO, which would include bards, yes? Which actually wouldn't be such a bad idea, right?

The fact is, many people like the idea of playing as bards, just like many people liked playing as necromancers. So I expect sooner or later, we will get something along those lines - I for one just hope it will come as skill line, and not as class, for reasons mentioned.

Wifeaggro13

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Deffo want this as a class not a skill line. My personal opinion before anybody quotes me and say how wrong I am.

-raspberry tongue noise-

Though I would love a bard or some sort of support CC focused class I'd rather they rewrite and gut the whole Cp system and make proper vertical progession alternate advancement

Gatdangmayne

Yeah i have to say i absolutely do not want another class. I still haven't bought elsweyr for various reasons, mainly i don't want to level up another character, get mount speed (and stamina now, yay).

I would love more guilds, weapons, etc. More ways to have more variety within the existing classes.

FrancisCrawford

1. My LOTRO main was a Minstrel, and I don't think the feel of attacking (or buffing) somebody by strumming a fragile wooden instrument was particularly credible.

2. I love D&D bards, but mainly for how they can pick and choose abilities from among those for multiple classes (wizard spells, cleric spells, rogue abilities, etc.).


Point 2 does suggest an idea: A new class without a lot of new active class skills, but which rather gets a curated list of skills already in the game.

Rogue_Ghost

Create Bard skill line.
Provide option to play "A Coin for Your Witcher"

Bards... bards everywhere!

TheShadowScout

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I don't think the feel of attacking (or buffing) somebody by strumming a fragile wooden instrument was particularly credible.

I'd say, as credible as any casting of magical spells - what does it matter if its a fragile wooden instrument, a fragile wooden stick, or fragile empty hands? If the power comes from -magic- then the tool is just whatever and the spell does the effect, be it attacking or buffing...
Also, there are more sturdy instruments, you know.

Though I definitely would have those "instruments" be alternate "weapons", but without attack or block or bash options (Well, I guess you -could- bash... once. And then get a new instrument.)

Rogue_Ghost wrote: »

Bards... bards everywhere!

See above, the awkwardness of having an instrument that cannot heavy attack for resource management, nor block or bash should have people think hard about when they want to let their bard out.