To stadia or not to stadia for ESO?

Acrolas

The way I see it, Google is introducing Stadia now to establish it as a brand and explore feedback. It will probably wind up being commercially viable but not profitable for its first or second generation. As third generation is probably a decade away, view Stadia more as a public prototype of the better service it will be later. Some people will find as much thrill in its development as they do in gaming, making Stadia a bit of a game onto itself.

Don't position it as your primary gaming quite yet, but if the concept interests you go ahead and try it out.

Danikat

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

thesoundofwolf wrote: »

I feel like I should own my games, incase anything were to ever happen.
Even the digital licensing, sometimes I face issues.

Valid point... for offline games. Yet you're playing ESO... for which, whether you bought a physical copy or not, whether you use a local or a remote computer service, youu're still depending 100% on ZOS servers, and the minute ZOS plugs off the servers, your game is unplayable.
This argument is not relevant in the case on ESO via Stadia.

But playing ESO through Stadia doubles the number of companies who can remove your access to the game at any time. One of whom has no real connection or obligation to this game beyond whatever contract they sign with Zenimax and may simply remove access once that contract expires to save the trouble of renewing it.

idk

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

thesoundofwolf wrote: »

I feel like I should own my games, incase anything were to ever happen.
Even the digital licensing, sometimes I face issues.

Valid point... for offline games. Yet you're playing ESO... for which, whether you bought a physical copy or not, whether you use a local or a remote computer service, youu're still depending 100% on ZOS servers, and the minute ZOS plugs off the servers, your game is unplayable.
This argument is not relevant in the case on ESO via Stadia.

Yes, and you make a good point. However with Stadia they are trusting two different companies with two different servers, doubling the risk.

zaria

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

If I were you I would be very sceptical about stadia or any other service of that kind. Give it some time, let google finish with the marketing stunts and after it's stabilized and you have some actual info in your hands, other than estimations by promotional articles, then make your decision. Two lane services like stadia are a hole in the water and anything anyone tells you atm is pure estimation and nothing more. Enjoy.

This, add that stadia lag is far worse than ESO lag in that it its an delay from you press an button to starting to turn or use an ability until the rendered image is sent back to you, eso lag comes on top.

Now as I understand the PS4 streaming service looks like works pretty well if you have good lines.
if you have an potato pc it might be an buff but you are probably way better off switching to console if you can not afford an gaming pc.

Finally I see stadia as an pretty limited product. It would worked much better as option so you can play games on the go or test out new games without downloading and installing.

zyk

Stadia will only be appealing to the most casual of gamers who don't care at all about responsiveness. Going to prime time Cyrodiil with it will be an awful experience because there will be a layer of streaming input lag in addition to the normal server-side lag of Cyrodiil.

I suppose there may also be players with PCs so old and/or broken that Stadia may be an improvement.

StormeReigns

Well, stadia seems like the golden ticket for online gaming, until the 0.5 to 1second imput lag starts to effect more active and responsive game play. Not including, you have to buy from stadia, set up a subscription service as well risk the option that they can lose client and game licences and gain them back and you have to repurchase what you originally bought through them.

Remember, Stadia isnt Netflix for games.

Lady_Linux

Env_t wrote: »

stadia players will have cross planform with PC players
no separate servers for them
period

learn how to google

did google it. couldnt find it. show a link?

lagrue

Lady_Linux wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

They are using their servers for the clients, you just "deport" your client.

They'll probably play on the same megaserver than us, and will (at first) be barred from using mods.
I don't think it's worth it, as for now.

I might test stadia for single player games, though.

I think they must be using their own megaservers as well, otherwise you wouldnt need to buy the game over again if they were just using eu and na servers

I'm not sure I follow this logic. Billions of people on this planet don't own the game, if they're going to start for this time on Stadia why wouldn't they be paying? I know you are thinking of current players, but not everybody is a current player, so naturally ZOS isn't going to slap a pricetag of Free on it for the Stadia. Even if it's not a new machine... it is technically a new "platform"... you don't generally get free crossplatform ownership of games. I.e. buying on a game on GOG doesn't mean you can play it on Steam just because it's PC.

To that merit your argument just doesn't make much sense? Of course you need to buy the game again - why wouldn't you? That's not even remotely correlated with which servers are being used?

Lady_Linux

lagrue wrote: »

Lady_Linux wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

They are using their servers for the clients, you just "deport" your client.

They'll probably play on the same megaserver than us, and will (at first) be barred from using mods.
I don't think it's worth it, as for now.

I might test stadia for single player games, though.

I think they must be using their own megaservers as well, otherwise you wouldnt need to buy the game over again if they were just using eu and na servers

I'm not sure I follow this logic. Billions of people on this planet don't own the game, if they're going to start for this time on Stadia why wouldn't they be paying? I know you are thinking of current players, but not everybody is a current player, so naturally ZOS isn't going to slap a pricetag of Free on it for the Stadia. Even if it's not a new machine... it is technically a new "platform"... you don't generally get free crossplatform ownership of games. I.e. buying on a game on GOG doesn't mean you can play it on Steam just because it's PC.

To that merit your argument just doesn't make much sense? Of course you need to buy the game again - why wouldn't you? That's not even remotely correlated with which servers are being used?

On nvidias streaming service i dont have to purchase the game again, and since stadia is just another streaming service, why should i but it again? Stadia isnt really another platform. They are just calling it that. Doesn't make it true.

lagrue

Lady_Linux wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

Lady_Linux wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

They are using their servers for the clients, you just "deport" your client.

They'll probably play on the same megaserver than us, and will (at first) be barred from using mods.
I don't think it's worth it, as for now.

I might test stadia for single player games, though.

I think they must be using their own megaservers as well, otherwise you wouldnt need to buy the game over again if they were just using eu and na servers

I'm not sure I follow this logic. Billions of people on this planet don't own the game, if they're going to start for this time on Stadia why wouldn't they be paying? I know you are thinking of current players, but not everybody is a current player, so naturally ZOS isn't going to slap a pricetag of Free on it for the Stadia. Even if it's not a new machine... it is technically a new "platform"... you don't generally get free crossplatform ownership of games. I.e. buying on a game on GOG doesn't mean you can play it on Steam just because it's PC.

To that merit your argument just doesn't make much sense? Of course you need to buy the game again - why wouldn't you? That's not even remotely correlated with which servers are being used?

On nvidias streaming service i dont have to purchase the game again, and since stadia is just another streaming service, why should i but it again? Stadia isnt really another platform. They are just calling it that. Doesn't make it true.

Well I guess you can debate google on that one. They call themselves a platform regardless of your opinion on the truth. If they consider themselves a platform, so it is, and they're going to treat it like one. It's not really your position to dictate that.

JamilaRaj

SkerKro wrote: »

Well, stadia seems like the golden ticket for online gaming, until the 0.5 to 1second imput lag starts to effect more active and responsive game play.

The obvious solution for this is to simply remove active and responsive gameplay from games, because it is not needed anyway, and make input and general latency not matter, i.e. adjust games to platform, not platform to games.
That may sound radical, but it is important to realize that players are here not to play active and responsive gameplay, but to dress (or effectively undress) their dolls, open lootboxes and also to be spied on by the all-seeing eye of Google. To that end, Stadia games could be (re-)designed just like mobile games (note that smartphones have totally atrocious controls that also preclude anything remotely active or responsive), i.e. as basically autoplaying, asking for input from player only from time to time, but even then mostly for show, to give impression of player being in charge, or to harvest some input data. As long as REWARDs are thrown at steady rate at "player" while the "game" autoplays itself, it will not raise any suspicion, because most players are not able to distinguish between REWARDs and gameplay.
Needless to say that e.g. ESO's overland content would not require too much effort to be redesigned for Stadia along these lines, as it is already of almost autoplaying quality.

Lady_Linux

lagrue wrote: »

Lady_Linux wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

Lady_Linux wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

They are using their servers for the clients, you just "deport" your client.

They'll probably play on the same megaserver than us, and will (at first) be barred from using mods.
I don't think it's worth it, as for now.

I might test stadia for single player games, though.

I think they must be using their own megaservers as well, otherwise you wouldnt need to buy the game over again if they were just using eu and na servers

I'm not sure I follow this logic. Billions of people on this planet don't own the game, if they're going to start for this time on Stadia why wouldn't they be paying? I know you are thinking of current players, but not everybody is a current player, so naturally ZOS isn't going to slap a pricetag of Free on it for the Stadia. Even if it's not a new machine... it is technically a new "platform"... you don't generally get free crossplatform ownership of games. I.e. buying on a game on GOG doesn't mean you can play it on Steam just because it's PC.

To that merit your argument just doesn't make much sense? Of course you need to buy the game again - why wouldn't you? That's not even remotely correlated with which servers are being used?

On nvidias streaming service i dont have to purchase the game again, and since stadia is just another streaming service, why should i but it again? Stadia isnt really another platform. They are just calling it that. Doesn't make it true.

Well I guess you can debate google on that one. They call themselves a platform regardless of your opinion on the truth. If they consider themselves a platform, so it is, and they're going to treat it like one. It's not really your position to dictate that.

dont believe the hype of marketing gimmicks. it is the duty of every consumer to dictate that and to call it out.

quadraxis666

I frequently do my writs at work with steamlink (or remote play as they're calling it now) using a bluetooth android controller & my phone. It's laggy. An online game getting info from zos, to my computer, then re-streaming it to my phone on mobile data, where I control it and those inputs are sent back over mobile data to my pc at home, and from there to zos servers. It just about works to do my writs. Combat? Forget about it.

I have a hard time seeing how stadia will be any different.

Single player offline games work like a dream on steamlink, but add an online component like with eso, latency is ridiculous. Unless stadia controllers are going direct to zos and not controller>google>zos>google>controller I can't imagine it'll be a very smooth experience.

Banana

Not with my internet connection

FearlessOne_2014

Why would anyone go Stadia when you can go Shadow with only 4.6 Ms ping added on? Gigabit Fiber Internet btw.

https://shadow.tech/usen

Then input this code for a deal!

HASTWYEP

Stadia is more like a crappy console vs Shadow Gaming PC the whole thing.

You might as well buy the best.

Can play Star Citizen on High at 60 FPS on my Shadow again with only 3Ms to 5Ms ping. GG EZ Clap!

rpa

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Can play Star Citizen on High at 60 FPS on my Shadow again with only 3Ms to 5Ms ping. GG EZ Clap!

(I assume Ms is a typo.)

Even if the cloud data centre is next to you, and client runs 60fps on high settings on the cloud computer with +3ms ping that does not mean the ESO PCNA or PCEU megaserver would work any better than for someone with a similar non-cloud computer and internet connection. I get 80ms to EU and 200ms to NA, you might get 200+3ms ping to EU and 80+3ms to NA. Out of prime time of each region of course.

anitajoneb17_ESO

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Why would anyone go Stadia when you can go Shadow with only 4.6 Ms ping added on? Gigabit Fiber Internet btw.

You're right. If I had an adequate internet connection, I'd go Shadow, not Stadia. Especially since Shadow has reduced its sub fees (thanks to Stadia ;-) )

FearlessOne_2014

rpa wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Can play Star Citizen on High at 60 FPS on my Shadow again with only 3Ms to 5Ms ping. GG EZ Clap!

(I assume Ms is a typo.)

Even if the cloud data centre is next to you, and client runs 60fps on high settings on the cloud computer with +3ms ping that does not mean the ESO PCNA or PCEU megaserver would work any better than for someone with a similar non-cloud computer and internet connection. I get 80ms to EU and 200ms to NA, you might get 200+3ms ping to EU and 80+3ms to NA. Out of prime time of each region of course.

From my Shadow PC I get around 70 to 90 PR on ESO with a additional 3 to 6 Ms of Ping. See below



Cloud based PC tech is already becoming the way of the future. More so since you can do on any device that has a decent connection.

Rungar

stadia is so people will accept 5g since it will make it so much better.

dont accept either.

jcm2606

If you're a fan of killer input lag and Stadia using a metric ass ton of data, sure!

RouDeR

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

rpa wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Can play Star Citizen on High at 60 FPS on my Shadow again with only 3Ms to 5Ms ping. GG EZ Clap!

(I assume Ms is a typo.)

Even if the cloud data centre is next to you, and client runs 60fps on high settings on the cloud computer with +3ms ping that does not mean the ESO PCNA or PCEU megaserver would work any better than for someone with a similar non-cloud computer and internet connection. I get 80ms to EU and 200ms to NA, you might get 200+3ms ping to EU and 80+3ms to NA. Out of prime time of each region of course.

From my Shadow PC I get around 70 to 90 PR on ESO with a additional 3 to 6 Ms of Ping. See below



Cloud based PC tech is already becoming the way of the future. More so since you can do on any device that has a decent connection.

Ping is not input lag, your input lag is probably 40-50% higher even if you stream between 2 pcs with 300$ router in the same room, because there is a time to compress and decode the image afterwards, it is just impossible to do seemles transition even with high end PCs and Routers

FearlessOne_2014

RouDeR wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

rpa wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Can play Star Citizen on High at 60 FPS on my Shadow again with only 3Ms to 5Ms ping. GG EZ Clap!

(I assume Ms is a typo.)

Even if the cloud data centre is next to you, and client runs 60fps on high settings on the cloud computer with +3ms ping that does not mean the ESO PCNA or PCEU megaserver would work any better than for someone with a similar non-cloud computer and internet connection. I get 80ms to EU and 200ms to NA, you might get 200+3ms ping to EU and 80+3ms to NA. Out of prime time of each region of course.

From my Shadow PC I get around 70 to 90 PR on ESO with a additional 3 to 6 Ms of Ping. See below



Cloud based PC tech is already becoming the way of the future. More so since you can do on any device that has a decent connection.

Ping is not input lag, your input lag is probably 40-50% higher even if you stream between 2 pcs with 300$ router

Well I'm not going to sit here and try to convince you, of my nearly non-existent imput lag. I do have a few Youtube videos on these forums. I can react with the best of them on my Cloud base PC. But you are free to believe what you want.

Stadia on the other hand appears like crap tho. Again basically the console version of cloud based gaming.

idk

Lady_Linux wrote: »

Env_t wrote: »

stadia players will have cross planform with PC players
no separate servers for them
period

learn how to google

did google it. couldnt find it. show a link?

@Lady_Linux

The link below is an interview with Matt Firor. The person who is the president of Zos. He states there will be cross play between Stadia and PC/Mac servers though he does state he is not sure if there will be cross-progression.

https://twinfinite.net/2019/08/elder-scrolls-online-stadia-switch/

I do not see that interview saying if someone needs to buy the game again if they already own it on PC/Mac. However, since it does say there is not cross-progression at the time of the interview it would seem to indicate the accounts would be different so I would not be surprised if a new game needs to be purchased to play it ion Stadia. What happens with Nvidia is not really relevant.

FearlessOne_2014

idk wrote: »

Lady_Linux wrote: »

Env_t wrote: »

stadia players will have cross planform with PC players
no separate servers for them
period

learn how to google

did google it. couldnt find it. show a link?

@Lady_Linux

The link below is an interview with Matt Firor. The person who is the president of Zos. He states there will be cross play between Stadia and PC/Mac servers though he does state he is not sure if there will be cross-progression.

https://twinfinite.net/2019/08/elder-scrolls-online-stadia-switch/

I do not see that interview saying if someone needs to buy the game again if they already own it on PC/Mac. However, since it does say there is not cross-progression at the time of the interview it would seem to indicate the accounts would be different so I would not be surprised if a new game needs to be purchased to play it ion Stadia. What happens with Nvidia is not really relevant.

If you can't carry your progress over than Stadia is pretty obsolete already by Shadow Ghost, which does alloy you to progress on your PC games you already own.

Stadia still don't look worth it too me. True it's cheaper. But you what they say about "You get what you pay for" right.

Actually why not try out Nivida GeForce Now Beta?

https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/products/geforce-now/

Which in my Opinion already dwarfs Stadia for free atm. (Provided you can get into the BETA.)

Just stay Stadia is the cloud based equalvant of a console compared to Nividia GeForce Now, and Shadow products. Why pay for a downgrade, and to have to rebuy all your games?

Lady_Linux

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Lady_Linux wrote: »

Env_t wrote: »

stadia players will have cross planform with PC players
no separate servers for them
period

learn how to google

did google it. couldnt find it. show a link?

@Lady_Linux

The link below is an interview with Matt Firor. The person who is the president of Zos. He states there will be cross play between Stadia and PC/Mac servers though he does state he is not sure if there will be cross-progression.

https://twinfinite.net/2019/08/elder-scrolls-online-stadia-switch/

I do not see that interview saying if someone needs to buy the game again if they already own it on PC/Mac. However, since it does say there is not cross-progression at the time of the interview it would seem to indicate the accounts would be different so I would not be surprised if a new game needs to be purchased to play it ion Stadia. What happens with Nvidia is not really relevant.

If you can't carry your progress over than Stadia is pretty obsolete already by Shadow Ghost, which does alloy you to progress on your PC games you already own.

Stadia still don't look worth it too me. True it's cheaper. But you what they say about "You get what you pay for" right.

Actually why not try out Nivida GeForce Now Beta?

https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/products/geforce-now/

Which in my Opinion already dwarfs Stadia for free atm. (Provided you can get into the BETA.)

Just stay Stadia is the cloud based equalvant of a console compared to Nividia GeForce Now, and Shadow products. Why pay for a downgrade, and to have to rebuy all your games?

Nvidia uses an overlay that takes up two buttons on the controller so you lose those functions in game. That means no pulling up maps and no resing people in game. pretty lame. I had a shieldtv but returned it when i realized i couldnt do all the game functions on the controller that i could do with a pc and controller.

Gythral

Given this is google - how many ads are they going to foist on the users per second!

technohic

I'd hold off on anything I'd have to pay $200 to even try let alone if its going to be on a PC platform pushing a gamepad, and sounds like connecting to ZOS current infrastructure.

Only way I see this having a remote chance of working is if the server you play on would be hosted on the Stadia cloud so that it would be little different than a client connection to the server today. I'm interested in the concept but...

Needs to be
User->(Stadia+ESO Server)

Not
User->Stadia->ESO Server.

Donny_Vito

idk wrote: »

Lady_Linux wrote: »

Env_t wrote: »

stadia players will have cross planform with PC players
no separate servers for them
period

learn how to google

did google it. couldnt find it. show a link?

@Lady_Linux

The link below is an interview with Matt Firor. The person who is the president of Zos. He states there will be cross play between Stadia and PC/Mac servers though he does state he is not sure if there will be cross-progression.

https://twinfinite.net/2019/08/elder-scrolls-online-stadia-switch/

I do not see that interview saying if someone needs to buy the game again if they already own it on PC/Mac. However, since it does say there is not cross-progression at the time of the interview it would seem to indicate the accounts would be different so I would not be surprised if a new game needs to be purchased to play it ion Stadia. What happens with Nvidia is not really relevant.

The linked article doesn't specifically say if there is going to be a new MegaServer for Stadia, only that there will be cross-play between PC and Stadia which could also mean they are on the same server.. Or it could mean they have their own separate server and that ZoS currently does have the functionality to allow cross-play (sad console players left out). Would be nice to get some black-and-white answers.

danno8

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Lady_Linux wrote: »

Env_t wrote: »

stadia players will have cross planform with PC players
no separate servers for them
period

learn how to google

did google it. couldnt find it. show a link?

@Lady_Linux

The link below is an interview with Matt Firor. The person who is the president of Zos. He states there will be cross play between Stadia and PC/Mac servers though he does state he is not sure if there will be cross-progression.

https://twinfinite.net/2019/08/elder-scrolls-online-stadia-switch/

I do not see that interview saying if someone needs to buy the game again if they already own it on PC/Mac. However, since it does say there is not cross-progression at the time of the interview it would seem to indicate the accounts would be different so I would not be surprised if a new game needs to be purchased to play it ion Stadia. What happens with Nvidia is not really relevant.

If you can't carry your progress over than Stadia is pretty obsolete already by Shadow Ghost, which does alloy you to progress on your PC games you already own.

Stadia still don't look worth it too me. True it's cheaper. But you what they say about "You get what you pay for" right.

Actually why not try out Nivida GeForce Now Beta?

https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/products/geforce-now/

Which in my Opinion already dwarfs Stadia for free atm. (Provided you can get into the BETA.)

Just stay Stadia is the cloud based equalvant of a console compared to Nividia GeForce Now, and Shadow products. Why pay for a downgrade, and to have to rebuy all your games?

That Shadow Ghost looks far better than Stadia, simply for the fact that it can use your existing games (although that's a bit fishy to me, I wonder how they are able to authenticate credentials, or are you essentially giving them access to your other services like Steam etc...)

Still $300 US a year to rent a virtual PC (a GTX 1080 according to here) seems very steep to me. I update my PC every 4 years or so and for $1200 I could get a very powerful PC that I own. Could even sell some of the parts off at the end to make some money back or just let the kids inherit it for free.

I guess I'm old school in that I like to own, not rent, because if someone is getting ahead, it is most definitely not going to be the renter.

ArchMikem

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Exactly, i prefer physical disks as well. No one really realizes that Microsoft, Sony etc can revoke your digital licenses without cause at any time, so in the end you wasted all that money buying them.

I get your point, yet your physical disk can get damaged, broken, burnt, drowned or simply lost. I understand that in this case it would be YOUR fault and not some company's negligence or bad will, which is psychologically more acceptable, however, considering things objectively, are the chances of the company withdrawing your license for whatever reasons higher than your chances of damaging your disk ? I doubt that...

I mean, all my game cases sit in a shelf above my desk. I won't lose em, I don't mishandle them, and the chances of Microsoft revoking my digital licenses are probably the same if not more likely than my Apartment burning down.