Why are players dropping like flies?

Glurin

FierceSam wrote: »

I don’t think numbers for vet trials are helped by the perception that players have to have stupid levels of DPS before they can begin to do this content though.

Agreed. Vet trials, normal trials, vet and normal DLC dungeons and vet base dungeons. I think it even puts people off doing normal base dungeons.

It's not a new problem though. It's pretty much plagued every MMO since damage meters became a thing way back when.

Adernath

The constant nerfs to magsorcs (which all started with the original streak nerf way back which removed an awesome class identity) let me reduce playing dramatically and also my funds spend into this game dropped to 0 because of it. And yes, been here since 2014. Now I am more playing games where sorcs have an identity. You ZOS wanted it, you got it.

FierceSam

Glurin wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

I don’t think numbers for vet trials are helped by the perception that players have to have stupid levels of DPS before they can begin to do this content though.

Agreed. Vet trials, normal trials, vet and normal DLC dungeons and vet base dungeons. I think it even puts people off doing normal base dungeons.

It's not a new problem though. It's pretty much plagued every MMO since damage meters became a thing way back when.

Well one of the nice things about the Witches Festival is that it has encouraged a lot of players to try dungeons, trials and arenas for the first time. And because everyone is after skulls rather than achievements, players of all levels have been welcomed and the atmosphere has been very positive and friendly. I’ve seen loads of players who have never done the portals in Cloudrest trying their hand at it.

Watching players realise that they can get into a trial/dungeon and do it and have fun is a great thing. And watching 12 skeletons attack the boss is somehow so absurd and funny that you don’t think about DPS or overall performance.

Happy days

LadyAstrum

starkerealm wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think it is a little overly dramatic to suggest players are dropping like flies and all the big guild are disbanding. Granted, idk anything about PS4 so maybe they are unique but I have seen people crying about this since the game launched yet the game has managed to survive.

BTW, I am not suggesting there is not a decline in game population as I am pretty sure there is due to change fatigue. But certainly not dropping like flies.

@IDK, there's been a lot of fatigue in the most active players. At the risk of sounding like @Raideen, and going off on a weird tangent, I'm inclined to blame the events. Particularly the anniversary going for five weeks this summer, combined with the hard grind component that has accompanied the vast majority of them.

Something's definitely translated to an unusually high burnout rate. So, while I can't prove it's the events, I've got a lot of anecdotal evidence supporting that.

You can't help but drop Raideen's name into your post even when you're not even quoting the guy. But, I agree with you and Raideen...it's likely a combination of different things (the ones Raideen listed), as well as high burnout rate.

Personally speaking, one event immediately after the other saw me edge towards burnout, and recent patch changes combined with a (my subjective view) greedy cash shop tactics, lessened my enthusiasm.

MartiniDaniels

We need more housing furniture limit (at least x1.5) and more free outfit slots (at least 3 for each toon). Without that you hit cap of true endgame too fast.

Lady_Linux

They are all moving to google stadia so they dont have to upgrade equipment and they get to play the game using google servers.... I bet they are betting on a better experience there than console has to offer. It's launching soon...

Lady_Linux

Rungar wrote: »

your being replaced by potatoes!

you're

Moonsorrow

PC EU is full of people leveling new characters atleast, lots of the "casual overland players" type of people as always and so on. And hope no one gets triggered by that, not saying it is a bad thing to play for casual fun. Just that i feel both endgame pvp and pve scene been taking a hit due to the ongoing audit that makes changes that can often just read and if you are into RP then your characters might get a depression in game.

But i do know a lot of friends and other "oldschool" pvp players leaving/taking long breaks because of the combined pain of pvp performance and the endless nerfs to fun gameplay options. Destroying iconic class and weapon skills just make fewer options on how to play.. that leads to boredom. What leads to people looking other games as options if in this game everything is been audited in the end to be exactly the same with different animations.

I know it is not easy task.. but sometimes i wish they would not atleast listen to all the nerflings when in reality some people just needs to learn to play instead of nerfing anything. And some are just malicious trolls with their requests.

We need changes that revitalize both pvp community and clearly also the pve raiding scene, because while a game for the average Joe & Jill that play to make a cute character (well i do that also, but yeah) it can be a fun login simulator, also in the end those people login less if all the "endgame" activities seem quiet that also eventually lead to overland getting more quiet when endgame players are not there anymore, so a chain reaction happens. Seen it on many games. Last time i saw it when i was playing SWTOR, empty server at most time even after merges.

I so wish the audit was well tested and done all in 1 update instead of a year or more long struggle. I mean, we the players could have very well played with Summerset situation what comes to mechanics for a long time with no changes other than QoL and content DLC`s.

Still, i wish we shall see eventually the light at the end of a long dark tunnel and it all starts to make sense when it`s over. I LOVE this game. I wanna see it being a healthy game even after 10 years!

Gonna end this wall of text rant now and hope all players and ZOS people have a good & fun weekend!

MajBludd

I'd say the reason goes something like this,

I spent time making my build. It was nerfed by skill changes. I adapted. Then the dot changes came, I adapted. Then more changes came and I'm tired of adapting every patch.

The changes are too many and too fast and they are taking way too long to address the performance issues.

zaria

Bashev wrote: »

EU PC is very crowded and the servers cannot keep with all the ppl.
Not that the servers are the best but still, the game is extremely popular.

Yes, now I imagine some especially high end trial players dropping out because the nerfs and no new trials with this dlc.

Its also an guild issue, if guild leader and other primary members leave or play less the guild can easy die.

Curious_Death

Since pvp is zergbased = 20 idi*ts follow me for about 30 min trying to kill - killing few of them ... finally got killed ... heard whispers.. "forgot to turn on cheats? noob" got te@..ba.. and whispers about getting reported...!!!

AD and guy leads ad to PVDoors gameplay to get PERMANENT buffs and emperor! leading over years newcomers to winning side AD.... oh forgot!

HAMMER? - a tool that makes winning side EVEN more OP! - so u cannot defend at walls anymore!

now PVE = oneshoot mechanics... lowering DPS increasing cost of skills.... what else? just Zo$ happend!

MajBludd

@Curious_Death yeah, that hammer is *** stupid

Rungar

Lady_Linux wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

your being replaced by potatoes!

you're

typing elitist! You will be replaced by typing potatoes as well.

maddiniiLuna

Guilds disband for various reasons. If you have to watch 1500 people hell I'd be disbanding the guild sooner or later. Some people just don't get along.

There is problems with raid guilds tho. That being people tend to create hundreds of raid guilds. Literally hundreds. I mean where do you go looking for raids, when there is like 20 guilds spamming in craglorn with each of them struggling to get members, rather then trying to pull together, communicate and fill the raids with ease just by asking.

Besides that every second raid guild has some ridiculous requirements like must join homepage and register there to participate in any raids. Like come on man I don't want to be registering for every damn raid its stupid.

Then there is this. If you don't participate in 3 raids a week you'll be kicked. We'll farewell then. Because I love going in a raid every now and then but I don't want to dedicate my entire life to a raid guild.

So that's your reasons why guilds disband at least raid guilds. Pvp guilds disband because pvp is simply *** right now. The average fight lasts 2 seconds or 1 if you encounter macro cheaters. Occasionally you'd get somebody with pathetically stupid builds that you can punch with 10 people for 20 minutes before they die and they be pressing 2 buttons you instant death. This is balance!

siddique

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

Guilds disband for various reasons. If you have to watch 1500 people hell I'd be disbanding the guild sooner or later. Some people just don't get along.

There is problems with raid guilds tho. That being people tend to create hundreds of raid guilds. Literally hundreds. I mean where do you go looking for raids, when there is like 20 guilds spamming in craglorn with each of them struggling to get members, rather then trying to pull together, communicate and fill the raids with ease just by asking.

Besides that every second raid guild has some ridiculous requirements like must join homepage and register there to participate in any raids. Like come on man I don't want to be registering for every damn raid its stupid.

Then there is this. If you don't participate in 3 raids a week you'll be kicked. We'll farewell then. Because I love going in a raid every now and then but I don't want to dedicate my entire life to a raid guild.

So that's your reasons why guilds disband at least raid guilds. Pvp guilds disband because pvp is simply *** right now. The average fight lasts 2 seconds or 1 if you encounter macro cheaters. Occasionally you'd get somebody with pathetically stupid builds that you can punch with 10 people for 20 minutes before they die and they be pressing 2 buttons you instant death. This is balance!

Just that the 1500 people guild was there since the launch of ESO on PS4.

Rampeal

You see this alot in ESO. It is the dry season. You see people using the ESO downtime (Minor/Dungeon DLC) to play other games and do other stuff.

When the next Big Expansion hits you will see a major increase in members to the point you will have queues to enter. Happened this way with all the Expansions(Morrowind, Elsweyr, Summerset).

It is just the natural cycle of ESO. I doubt it means the game is dead. Because ESO is the best Elder Scrolls game that players will get for a long time that covers alot of lore and regions rather than just one such as Skyrim and Oblivion.

MajBludd

@Rampeal too bad Zos is doing a horrible job at retaining customers.
When that next new chapter drops, let's see how long players stick around. Then you have the performance which has made several ppl leave in frustration.

You will not see the players come back like in the past.

akl77

For PS4 the aoe meta just made dps not fun in game, it’s boring to the core.
Healing is also disgusting, the stupid healing changes made it boring and not enjoyable as before.
Tanking in more laggy and buggy state right now made it not so fun as well.
Along with more fun and creative games out that’s out in the season draw our addiction and reliance on ESO away.
The people that’s still playing in dungeons and trials are all low cp newbies, making a success completion a disaster everytime.
The upcoming quest and nerf dlc doesn’t look promising either.
Time to invest your life on some more fun games.

happyhughes2001

It seems busier than ever for me. Guilds are full, traders packed. Queue is shorter than ever in activity finder. It could be that the game is included on gamepass for Xbox, perhaps that is the reason.

GrigorijMalahevich

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Find another guild? Or stop playing yourself, in the end, it doesn't really matter.

Yeah, but
“I had to fall
to lose it all
but in the end”

Billdor

TragedyOA wrote: »

Some streamers are moving on to other games.

Like ESO has been a "streaming" game. I've yet to come across a streamer with actual enjoyable content aside from Ninja and Inklings. Rest are meh

RebornV3x

I play mostly on Xbox NA and can confirm players dropping like flies was in a high end trials guild 2 months ago that ran trials nearly every day and today we can barley fill plunder runs even during the event 4 out of my 5 guilds have lost a good 25% of the players and saw 2 guilds disband since Scalebreaker on PC it does seem as bad but its noticeable that PVP is at low point and that the endgame trial scene is alot more quiet than it used to be but again maybe I don't play PC/NA enough...

tplink3r1

Surprised? This game is already 5 years old and still they haven't figured out a way to fix the massive lag.

DarkPicture

lags, crashes, 1st week of dragonhold on pc was a joke, no new pve endgame content, also balance changes are terrible

now when blizzard announced a new good patch with CLASS IDENTITY, NEW THINGS TO CHARACTER CREATION etc its not worth to play eso anymore

Rampeal

Browart wrote: »

lags, crashes, 1st week of dragonhold on pc was a joke, no new pve endgame content, also balance changes are terrible

now when blizzard announced a new good patch with CLASS IDENTITY, NEW THINGS TO CHARACTER CREATION etc its not worth to play eso anymore

If end game PVE is doing Hard Dungeons/Trials to get Gear so you can do Harder Dungeons/Trials to Get even more gear.....no thank you. That is not fun.

Plus at least ESO doesn't charge you $15 a month just to play it.

Hallothiel

Hmm. Some of my main guilds ‘end gamers’ are playing less due to a) having done most stuff & b) playing Monster Hunter World. But not completely gone.
And have quite a few new players joining or others levelling up new characters.

Maybe ‘end game’ raiding guilds should not be so demanding? We are a social guild and run a training group and have managed to get people geared up and able to play vet trials. Don’t have to be so ‘leetist’.

Wayshuba

ErinM31 wrote: »

Every MMORPG I’ve played has people saying that people are leaving, the game is dying, etc., etc. Maybe it was true to some degree in SWTOR that they had to merge servers or maybe there were other reasons for that. In any case, all said games are still around and I suspect that such sentiments are from people unhappy with the game themselves and/or those who have had groups/guilds break-up, which isn’t abnormal or even necessarily bad as it is normal for people’s interests, priorities, etc. to change, especially over the course of years.

Not to derail the thread but SWTOR is a bad example. There is a difference between an MMO "still being around" and thriving.

Look at the content cadence difference between the two games as an example. SWTOR took 1.5 years to put out a single raid one boss at a time. The content updates they have had in the last few years, in total, is maybe equivalent to ONE quarterly DLC update in ESO. The recent "expansion" has about maybe five-six hours of content in it - they worked for more than a year to put this out.

In MMOs, a good content cadence is king. ESO and FFXIV have been doing well there and thus why they have thrived. When MMOs start to lose a lot of players though, they usually will survive. They just cut the development team back to still make a profit and eventually you end up with the skeleton team like SWTOR has and content then is delivered at a trickle.

That being said, to the subject of the OP, it is noticeable in game that more people have been leaving of late. Heck, Dragonhold just dropped and Southern Elsweyr is fairly barren of players compared to when CWC or Murkmire dropped. In one guild I am in, former players are still communicating in Discord and just have no interest in returning right now because what caused them to leave - the flip/flop combat adjustments every three months - still hasn't changed.

According to recent Steam Stats there has been a very marked drop off of players in the last six months. Even with the new DLC that just dropped we didn't even gain 1% back. I know Steam only represents a portion of the player base, but it is indicative of larger trends and these trends can be noticed in game:

- Previously busy hubs, like the Vivec City crafting area are noticeably less populated.
- A lot less members in guilds online than earlier this year.
- Friend and guild members having a longer time between logins than they used to.
- New DLC area - Southen Elsweyr with noticeably less people at launch than when CWC or Murkmire dropped.
- More in game requests in chat for people to join trials.
- Regular trail groups in current guilds falling apart for lack of players, when they used to be fairly regular.

While the above points are all anecdotal, they are noticeable trends that support the trends that Steam Stats is showing. Thing is, I don't know if ESO can turn it around at this point even if they finally reign in this out-of-control combat team. I am hoping they will turn it around so this content cadence continues but things are not looking good at this moment.

Alcast

There is always a player drop during non chapter launches. However, this time it seems to be a bit bigger than usual. I think performance and lack of direction in combat changes just turned a lot of people off. Many went to play Destiny 2, WoW or FF14 instead.

The big question ZOS has to ask themselves is, why did "SeasonOfTheDragon" not succeed, or did it? They sold more copies than ever before, so I am sure they are actually pretty happy with the $$ performance of this year.

My problem with the "SeasonOfTheDragon" is that it did not manage to retain players, we have the same amount or even a tiny bit less players than last year around this time (according to steamcharts, yes I know its only a tiny population, but it is the only metric we really have to compare numbers).
The moment the Chapter hype was over, everyone ran to other games, ZOS needs to figure out how to keep people happy the rest of the year. Yes Performance and constant changes to combat definitely push people away too, but I still think the biggest problem is lack of good content. 1 Chapter and 3 DLCs with very little content does just not cut it in the MMO scene.

They also need to figure out how to get more people into vet content, most people quit way before they even reach vet content and that should not be the case. There is A LOT of new players, a lot of players that are interested in checking the game out, they usually just do not stick around very long, I hope ZOS can figure it out in the next one or two years. Lack of good rewards for dungeons and their focus on clown store is definitely also an issue.

The biggest problem at the company ZOS itself is, that they just do not have enough resources to actually deal with all the issues that come up. Since 2014 they are constantly trying to fix bugs, stuff you might not even necessarily see but they might waste a lot of resources on it, and then fix 1 bug, 2 new appear. Dungeon/Trial team has around 5 people, of course we can not get more such content, the team is just too small to really push a lot of content out. Same goes for the combat team, it is tiny compared to other companies. And because the numbers seem to be alright for ZOS in terms of $, why hire more? On top of that they are building two complete new teams, one already working on a mobile game and another new team working on a unannounced game.

I still hope that till the next Chaper, they will be done with most combat changes and fps improvements. Because the next Chapter will be when most people will give the game another try.

Agenericname

I can only really give my perspective. The change/nerf fatigue couple with some of the uncertainty and the people that I run content with either leaving or having already left, seriously dampened my motivation to play.

The changes on their own wouldn't have been as bad, but I feel like ZOS leaves a little to be desired in their communications. They do communicate, but theyre not really answering many of the questions that I have. They seem a little tone deaf in this regard.

We know more changes are coming and going by some of the change we have seen, for instance buffing the DOTs then immediately reverting that the next patch, it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. It leaves me with the overall impression that this roller coaster ride isn't over. That's the least appealing aspect of all.

I doubt this is the beginning of the end. Maybe it is, who knows? I play less. I currently, and since about 2 weeks prior to the patch, log in once per week. I hope it's not on a downward trend, I would rather have it a game that I enjoyed than not, but currently I find other games/activities more appealing.

Nevaee

I think they dropped their PS4, bought a real gaming machine (PC) and started all over again