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MAGPLAR. a nerf thread
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Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Outside of mag sorc magplars are the second most mobile class.
StamSorc says hello.
Edited by Moonsorrow on November 5, 2019 10:15AM2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Outside of mag sorc magplars are the second most mobile class.
StamSorc says hello.
Well I mean't outside of mag sorcs magplars are the most mobile magicka class.
But still to say they aren't 'mobile' is a lie.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
Templars are decently mobile. There is more to mobility than simply just boosting your own speed. Magplars can put down cleanse, bubble and mist form, they have 30% speed while everyone else has 30 - 60% minimum. Making everyone slower is also a form of mobility. Outside of mag sorc magplars are the second most mobile class.
Sooooo magplar is more mobile than nightblades with cloak and shadow Image and Major Expedition eh? Never felt that way when playing stamblade tbh (or magblade with rat for that matter).Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.5 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »
Templars are decently mobile. There is more to mobility than simply just boosting your own speed. Magplars can put down cleanse, bubble and mist form, they have 30% speed while everyone else has 30 - 60% minimum. Making everyone slower is also a form of mobility. Outside of mag sorc magplars are the second most mobile class.
Sooooo magplar is more mobile than nightblades with cloak and shadow Image and Major Expedition eh? Never felt that way when playing stamblade tbh (or magblade with rat for that matter).
Yes considering i can drink a pot for cloak. Magplars can use RAT if they want too i guess, but the ability to snare everything chasing while in mist form is much better.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Reaper_00✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Templars are decently mobile. There is more to mobility than simply just boosting your own speed. Magplars can put down cleanse, bubble and mist form, they have 30% speed while everyone else has 30 - 60% minimum. Making everyone slower is also a form of mobility. Outside of mag sorc magplars are the second most mobile class.
Mist form isn’t a templar class skill and is available to every class, so it doesn’t prove that magplars have great mobility. You do realise that prior to the psijic skill line, it was almost mandatory to go vampire if you were a magplar because they have no class skill that gives defensive mobility. Also there are two types of mobility, offensive and defensive.3 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Templars are decently mobile. There is more to mobility than simply just boosting your own speed. Magplars can put down cleanse, bubble and mist form, they have 30% speed while everyone else has 30 - 60% minimum. Making everyone slower is also a form of mobility. Outside of mag sorc magplars are the second most mobile class.
Mist form isn’t a templar class skill and is available to every class, so it doesn’t prove that magplars have great mobility. You do realise that prior to the psijic skill line, it was almost mandatory to go vampire if you were a magplar because they have no class skill that gives defensive mobility. Also there are two types of mobility, offensive and defensive.
Yet vampires use it more effective because they can actively snare people by 60% while in mistform, not counting the big aoe snare that put of the floor before hand.
Where the skill comes from isn't important, the point its used by the class effectively.
They have offensive mobility as well considering every is snared 100% of the time while fighting them without immunity + the best gap closer/ stun in the game.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Reaper_00✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Yet vampires use it more effective because they can actively snare people by 60% while in mistform, not counting the big aoe snare that put of the floor before hand.
Yes. Although you realise that the people being snared could just use mist form themselves and then those snares wouldn’t matter. Seeing that mist form isn’t unique to templar and all.Edited by Reaper_00 on November 5, 2019 12:55PM2 -
MCBIZZLE300✭✭✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »my issues.
1. snares. templar simpily dosent need them. massive aoe 30% , 40% from spammable. i need to hit shuffle every 5 secs. they have mobility. A GAP CLOSER. not to mention rat and mist.
2. gap closer. it stuns. why. imagine if ambush stunned. yeah.
3. execute. undodgable. also does a ridiculous amount of dmg. yes it can be interrupted, but when youre at 10% hp and are snared up. ded unless in los
4. healing. now im fine with the healer class having good healing. but honor the dead can be SPAMMED. SPAMMED.
heres a screenshot of a death recap from a templar
edit: idk why but my screenshots dont show up. but death recap was 3 jabs, dev swarm, and beam
excluding the devouring swarm, the only attacks were jabs and beam. while in this fight i was constantly snared, and my usage of shuffle had drained my stam. this player hit very few skills, and as you can see it was more than adequate to kill me. this screenshot is more of how templars play rather than the numbers, demonstrating the spam of jabs without a single light attack in between.
now ill post a screenshot of my stat sheet (no potion). yes i am squishy, but you will notice i have VERY high sustain and weapon damage. i am hiting an easy 10k suprise attack without camo hunter or enchant proc (shackle, Spriggans and bloodspawn) and yet i was unable to use my classes defenses.
1. mobility, as i was constantly snared or being gap closed to.
2 shade, i couldnt get away far enough to utilise this skill.
3. i didnt have any chance to cloak, heal and re position because the templar was constantly pulling me out of cloak.
edit:3.8k wd, 2.5k recov (2.7k backbar) 18k resists 2.5k crit resists 15k mag, 33k stam 24k hp
and heres a few of my tooltips, (with just rally and cloak) which as you can see, are quite high. dispite this the templar had no problem outhealing my damage.
edit: again... 19k bow, 16.5k incap 10.3k surprise
im not the best player in the world but i can hold my own outnumberd against anything but well built magplars (or good players. talking about zerglings here) for the above reasons
heres some solutions.
1. remove snare on passive that adds it to ritual and remove it from jabs (or apply to last hit)
2. remove stun from gap closer and instead add a 30% snare. (so has 30% after gapcloser on 1 enemy rather than 30% massive aoe)
3. reduce damage. maybe 15%
4. sustain on honor the dead should apply to 30% and less targets rather that 60%
please refrain from just using l2p as your only argument. if you disagree say why. dont just go on a salty rant. keep it civilised.
yes there are other things about templar that could be considered overkill as well (eg. backlash crit and new bubble), but i am yet to test them as i play on xbox and dragonhold is not released for a further 4 days
ty for reading this i know its kinda long
Extended ritual should not snare, I know its from a passive but it should be re worked. The radius is way too large to provide a 30% snare on top of all the other benefits it provides. other than that id say magplars should remain un changed.1 -
Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have seriously considered squeezing every possible ounce of damage out of Jesus beam, to make it a main spammable in PvP.
For the combo I'm thinking:
1) LA Purifying light
2) LA Javelin
3) beams away
Not sure if soul assault is worth *** any more though...all just to see more nerf threads. Love seeing magplar nerf threads...for five years we went with the only nerf threads being based of old Jesus beam and blazing shield...Edited by Baconlad on November 5, 2019 1:16PM0 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »So, the reason the Templar class has so many snares is because the class is designed around the idea of a "house". Templars are by design meant to mark their ground, plant their feet, and be at their strongest by staying in their "house". Allies that stand in the Templar's house receive buffs and healing and enemies that enter the house get met with divine wrath. Because of this design, Templar's are not a highly mobile class. If you look at their skills you won't find any in-class buffs to movement speed or snare removal. Compare this to the Sorcerer class, who are a highly mobile class, having access to buffs to speed, the ability to manifest as a bolt of lightning, and skills that can lock down enemies (in theory, at least). Instead, Templars find themselves more as an anti-mobility class, where they need access to snares in order to keep foes in melee range to be effective at dealing damage. The fact that Templar needs reliable access to snares is simply a feature of the design of the class.
That being said, I will admit, Templar does have a bit too many snares. I don't want to speak for all Templars, but I think you'll find a good deal of Templar's won't mind switching the snare in the Sacred Ground passive out for a buff to allies, such as Minor Vitality. This would eliminate the large ground based snares, that often don't really matter for Templar's since stronger snares exist in the class kit. Letting Sacred Ground instead grant Minor Vitality to allies would reinforce Templar's strength in healing and keep class identity.
The other snare that could be reworked is the snare off of Living Dark. If I'm being honest, I feel Eclipse and its morphs could still use some figuring out. The idea behind this ability is nice; helping Templars switch from defense to offense by punishing foes who attack them (again, think of the "house"). However, I think it could use a bit more tweaking to make it better at achieving that purpose without the potential to be overpowering.
In large though, as others in this thread have mentioned, Templar right now should be the model for where other classes should be. Does it need a few minor tweaks here and there? Sure. Does it need nerfed? No. Do the other classes need some nice buffs and some class identity restored. Yes.
Templars are decently mobile. There is more to mobility than simply just boosting your own speed. Magplars can put down cleanse, bubble and mist form, they have 30% speed while everyone else has 30 - 60% minimum. Making everyone slower is also a form of mobility. Outside of mag sorc magplars are the second most mobile class.
Templar is mobile because they can snare people and then use a skill that everyone has access to? What?
Actually, given what you've said:- MagDk can just root everyone and use mist form so they're among the most mobile.
- MagNB can crippling grasp, cloak and use mists so they must be the most mobile.
- MagSorc can cast an encase then streak into a mists, so actually, must be the most mobile.
- MagWarden can use Impaling shards to immobilize and then mist form away so are quite mobile.
- Templar can snare you (not a root) and use mists so are the second most mobile in game..
- Stamina classes don't need evaluated for mobility
See how redundant that is? Take away your pigeonholed idea of mists and see where you think the mobility lays.
That's about as redundant as me saying that MagDk has the best mobility because they can root you and mist form away when in reality, we can all safely say their mobility is poor.
If you want people to consider making people slower as a form of mobility then every class that has access to an immobilize is at an advantage because moving at 40% speed is better than not moving at all.
Don't you play Stamplar or something? You should know we can't just cleanse all day long so I dno why that was mentioned because if someones running bubble as well, you aint feeeling that 30% snare oncleepalmer95 wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »
Templars are decently mobile. There is more to mobility than simply just boosting your own speed. Magplars can put down cleanse, bubble and mist form, they have 30% speed while everyone else has 30 - 60% minimum. Making everyone slower is also a form of mobility. Outside of mag sorc magplars are the second most mobile class.
Sooooo magplar is more mobile than nightblades with cloak and shadow Image and Major Expedition eh? Never felt that way when playing stamblade tbh (or magblade with rat for that matter).
Yes considering i can drink a pot for cloak. Magplars can use RAT if they want too i guess, but the ability to snare everything chasing while in mist form is much better.
Why are you under the impression that only Templar has access to snare immunity? If you consider that all the chasers have it too, who's getting away? Not the Templar.vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)4 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »
Extended ritual should not snare, I know its from a passive but it should be re worked. The radius is way too large to provide a 30% snare on top of all the other benefits it provides. other than that id say magplars should remain un changed.
That snare is redundant as soon as you are being swept, have a reflective light on you or a bubble snare. You almost never feel that 30% snare against a good templar. Maybe it's an issue among zergs and less skilled players that can't keep damage and dots up, but not against anyone good.
I said before in a post, take the snare off and give us something else, but it'll be a buff for the guys at the top.I have seriously considered squeezing every possible ounce of damage out of Jesus beam, to make it a main spammable in PvP.
For the combo I'm thinking:
1) LA Purifying light
2) LA Javelin
3) beams away
Not sure if soul assault is worth *** any more though...all just to see more nerf threads. Love seeing magplar nerf threads...for five years we went with the only nerf threads being based of old Jesus beam and blazing shield...
If you're amping damage up for that you might be able to get Dark Flare to contribute.
If you remember those DarkFlare, stun, radiant builds, they were a bit smelly.
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)0 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
✭MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »
Extended ritual should not snare, I know its from a passive but it should be re worked. The radius is way too large to provide a 30% snare on top of all the other benefits it provides. other than that id say magplars should remain un changed.
That snare is redundant as soon as you are being swept, have a reflective light on you or a bubble snare. You almost never feel that 30% snare against a good templar. Maybe it's an issue among zergs and less skilled players that can't keep damage and dots up, but not against anyone good.
I said before in a post, take the snare off and give us something else, but it'll be a buff for the guys at the top.I have seriously considered squeezing every possible ounce of damage out of Jesus beam, to make it a main spammable in PvP.
For the combo I'm thinking:
1) LA Purifying light
2) LA Javelin
3) beams away
Not sure if soul assault is worth *** any more though...all just to see more nerf threads. Love seeing magplar nerf threads...for five years we went with the only nerf threads being based of old Jesus beam and blazing shield...
If you're amping damage up for that you might be able to get Dark Flare to contribute.
If you remember those DarkFlare, stun, radiant builds, they were a bit smelly.
😉😉😉 Ye ole Templar “3 piece and a soda”... I’ll be trying that but I’m guessing you’ll have to throw either two dark flares or two javelins to ensure kills since the nerfs. Probably be a 4 piece... dark flare, javelin, javelin, jbeam...Edited by UppGRAYxDD on November 5, 2019 1:43PM"Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."0 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭UppGRAYxDD wrote: »MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »
Extended ritual should not snare, I know its from a passive but it should be re worked. The radius is way too large to provide a 30% snare on top of all the other benefits it provides. other than that id say magplars should remain un changed.
That snare is redundant as soon as you are being swept, have a reflective light on you or a bubble snare. You almost never feel that 30% snare against a good templar. Maybe it's an issue among zergs and less skilled players that can't keep damage and dots up, but not against anyone good.
I said before in a post, take the snare off and give us something else, but it'll be a buff for the guys at the top.I have seriously considered squeezing every possible ounce of damage out of Jesus beam, to make it a main spammable in PvP.
For the combo I'm thinking:
1) LA Purifying light
2) LA Javelin
3) beams away
Not sure if soul assault is worth *** any more though...all just to see more nerf threads. Love seeing magplar nerf threads...for five years we went with the only nerf threads being based of old Jesus beam and blazing shield...
If you're amping damage up for that you might be able to get Dark Flare to contribute.
If you remember those DarkFlare, stun, radiant builds, they were a bit smelly.
😉😉😉 Ye ole Templar “3 piece and a soda”... I’ll be trying that but I’m guessing you’ll have to throw either two dark flares or two javelins to ensure kills since the nerfs. Probably be a 4 piece... dark flare, javelin, javelin, jbeam...
Maybe just the 3 if you do it from stealth and catch them off guard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6-wWBywIy0 vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)0 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
✭UppGRAYxDD wrote: »MCBIZZLE300 wrote: »
Extended ritual should not snare, I know its from a passive but it should be re worked. The radius is way too large to provide a 30% snare on top of all the other benefits it provides. other than that id say magplars should remain un changed.
That snare is redundant as soon as you are being swept, have a reflective light on you or a bubble snare. You almost never feel that 30% snare against a good templar. Maybe it's an issue among zergs and less skilled players that can't keep damage and dots up, but not against anyone good.
I said before in a post, take the snare off and give us something else, but it'll be a buff for the guys at the top.I have seriously considered squeezing every possible ounce of damage out of Jesus beam, to make it a main spammable in PvP.
For the combo I'm thinking:
1) LA Purifying light
2) LA Javelin
3) beams away
Not sure if soul assault is worth *** any more though...all just to see more nerf threads. Love seeing magplar nerf threads...for five years we went with the only nerf threads being based of old Jesus beam and blazing shield...
If you're amping damage up for that you might be able to get Dark Flare to contribute.
If you remember those DarkFlare, stun, radiant builds, they were a bit smelly.
😉😉😉 Ye ole Templar “3 piece and a soda”... I’ll be trying that but I’m guessing you’ll have to throw either two dark flares or two javelins to ensure kills since the nerfs. Probably be a 4 piece... dark flare, javelin, javelin, jbeam...
Maybe just the 3 if you do it from stealth and catch them off guardhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6-wWBywIy0
Ain’t gotta tell me...
https://youtu.be/yyR8t9yJndY "Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."0 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭UppGRAYxDD wrote: »Ain’t gotta tell me...https://youtu.be/yyR8t9yJndY
Ahaha, legend! I never used it myself but one of the lads in my old core group did and it was always jokes.
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Who doesn’t love a good tooltip post. Here’s my tool tips WHY DID I STILL DIE? Clearly the other class is OP.2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Who doesn’t love a good tooltip post. Here’s my tool tips WHY DID I STILL DIE? Clearly the other class is OP.
Gotta agree with this. I’ve noticed these a lot these days, ‘I have 30k resistances, 5k weapon damage, I can’t do X so X isn’t possible’ posts.
I attribute it to players who went cookie cutter builds and spamming dizzy no longer works.Edited by Iskiab on November 11, 2019 2:12PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Who doesn’t love a good tooltip post. Here’s my tool tips WHY DID I STILL DIE? Clearly the other class is OP.
Gotta agree with this. I’ve noticed these a lot these days, ‘I have 30k resistances, 5k weapon damage, I can’t do X so X isn’t possible’ posts.
I attribute it to players who went cookie cutter builds and spamming dizzy no longer works.
I think dizzy swing spammers do not necessarily mean the same as stat sheet warriors. I mean DS spammers really could effectively do better doing something else on paper, but that's the problem. You can take a character and put a ton of buff skills on your bar to get huge tooltips but you'll be too busy keeping buffs up to do any damage.
Not enough consideration is put into opportunity cost and being able to react when it comes to PVP where a rotation is not going to happen and you have to get the right moment to even use a quick burst combo.
And then people critch on 1 defense like cloak and do not know how to react when that fails. I killed the same mNB solo twice yesterday. 1 time he was alone, another time, he had a DK friend with him. 1st time when he was alone was hardest as I hit a regular pot at first, then realized his plan was to attack at ranged and cloak often. Pulled him into a smaller area, hit the detect pot and erased him as he spammed cloak. When he brought his friend, I LOSed, deleted the DK with a solid combo, then popped the detect pot just as he came around the LOS and he just started spamming cloak again even though I could see him.
Seriously. Use shadow image at least. Get some speed and move. Something other than just cloak and complain when someone whis not a potato kills you. I fought other NBs that I couldnt finish off and that's the difference0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Who doesn’t love a good tooltip post. Here’s my tool tips WHY DID I STILL DIE? Clearly the other class is OP.
Gotta agree with this. I’ve noticed these a lot these days, ‘I have 30k resistances, 5k weapon damage, I can’t do X so X isn’t possible’ posts.
I attribute it to players who went cookie cutter builds and spamming dizzy no longer works.
I think dizzy swing spammers do not necessarily mean the same as stat sheet warriors. I mean DS spammers really could effectively do better doing something else on paper, but that's the problem. You can take a character and put a ton of buff skills on your bar to get huge tooltips but you'll be too busy keeping buffs up to do any damage.
Not enough consideration is put into opportunity cost and being able to react when it comes to PVP where a rotation is not going to happen and you have to get the right moment to even use a quick burst combo.
And then people critch on 1 defense like cloak and do not know how to react when that fails. I killed the same mNB solo twice yesterday. 1 time he was alone, another time, he had a DK friend with him. 1st time when he was alone was hardest as I hit a regular pot at first, then realized his plan was to attack at ranged and cloak often. Pulled him into a smaller area, hit the detect pot and erased him as he spammed cloak. When he brought his friend, I LOSed, deleted the DK with a solid combo, then popped the detect pot just as he came around the LOS and he just started spamming cloak again even though I could see him.
Seriously. Use shadow image at least. Get some speed and move. Something other than just cloak and complain when someone whis not a potato kills you. I fought other NBs that I couldnt finish off and that's the difference
Yea, that’s a NB who hasn’t adapted to the dot changes. A lot ran ranged cloak and dot, though I’d never try that against a Templar.
Shade has the cost jacked so a lot don’t use it anymore, I stopped. Think the base cost is 4k and lasts 20 seconds, then another cost to actually port. Unless you’re in total control of the fight there’s no guarantee you’ll have enough separation for the port to be effective. I changed to mist since it’s on demand.
Toppling into sweeps will wreck a non-tanky NB so I can see where NBs are coming from thinking Templars are OP, but in the larger scheme of things I don’t think so. NBs have to stay at range, setup shade, jump in to try and burst a templar and be ready to shade out. It’s not a good match up for a NB. Staying in sweeps range will make you an easy kill, detect pots are also a hard counter.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0
