MAGPLAR. a nerf thread

Hexquisite

Langeston wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

I have a new Magplar because I switched factions, and she has 18K pen without Spinners--once she has all her skill lines and passives, it will be more.

How are you getting such high penetration? My magblade has just under 18k penetration with
Spinner's & all relevant passives. And that's using the lover & 5 gold divines. I'm assuming you're running impen since we're talking PVP, so your penetration sounds really high to me.

Im sorry, I should've been clearee, I have 1 light armor passive, I am counting Major Breach, and since this patch is all tanks, and my class dot got nerfed, I dumped my thaum cp into spell Erosion and use sharpened and Auorans, and change between lover and Atro Munds

Rhaegar75

Nerf discussions are sooooooooo boring and they always feel like a battle against someone’s ranting....it’s never their fault if they lose a battle: it’s always the nasty OP other class that was made Uber!!!!

I much prefer, if I have to, to illustrate where my classes should be improved rather than demanding nerfs of the classes I play against

Mine is a plea: don’t feed nerf discussions!!! It’s like feeding a raccoon...his mates will start coming!!!

Paradoxically enough I’ve just done it 😂

lukoi

I have 3 NBs i like to PvP in and Temps are the most challenging class for me to deal with on my NBs.....but I still dont have these problems.

Its also an immediate redflag on a post when someone complains about a class, and then includes things like RAT or Mist in their opening comments, which any class can choose to use.

On my templars, DK are the biggest pita.

Rock-paper-scissors in my experience in this game.

Also, OP you dont have to build your NB so squishy either. If yer gonna be that squishy, ya need some more speed probably.

Trade offs.

Trancestor

I don't think magplar is OP anymore in Dragonhold, it is and always was a hard counter to rollerblades tho which is probably why you think it still is.
They are and always were the class you least want to see when 1vx'ing, focus them and they just block spam HtD, focus someones else and the magplar will spam HtD at them, it's a really easy to play almost braindead class which is why you see so many of them in Cyrodil, really bad at the game? Tired of getting 1vx'd? Roll a Magplar.
That's just the nature of a healer focused class tho, no amount of reasonable nerfing will stop that.
In terms of dueling, a Magplar isn't much of a threat anymore unless they go full dueling build shadowrend spell strat cheese but then something like a Magdk does even better in that setup.
1vx, there are much better classes for that.

Kadoin

lukoi wrote: »

I have 3 NBs i like to PvP in and Temps are the most challenging class for me to deal with on my NBs.....but I still dont have these problems.

Its also an immediate redflag on a post when someone complains about a class, and then includes things like RAT or Mist in their opening comments, which any class can choose to use.

On my templars, DK are the biggest pita.

Rock-paper-scissors in my experience in this game.

Also, OP you dont have to build your NB so squishy either. If yer gonna be that squishy, ya need some more speed probably.

Trade offs.

I feel sorry for anyone that encountered my DK last patch and this patch. Absolutely 0% chance of winning in a 1v1, no matter how hard you hit. Well, maybe if I sneeze...

ThePhantomThorn

ok about radiant.
my issue is that it does massive damage and is UNDODGABLE

lets say i was fighting a stamdk. they had just got me to 30%. they it execute. i DODGE. so i survive a bit longer.

YOU CANT DODGE BEAM. yes it can be bashed but at range unless ur in los ur screwed. that add the massive snares...

and im sorry that this is outdated, but the snares were not removed hence this.

JinxxND

They need to remove the snare off ritual and living dark needs a total redesign imo just go back to how they had it with old eclipse. Other then that templars are fine.

Gnortranermara

LMAO, wow. What a joke. Redundant snares are bad for Templar, (not bad for you) since they don't stack and can be easily countered. You have Killer's Blade which is objectively superior to beam because the damage bonus is 300% flat (doesn't scale with health) and it's non-interruptible burst. You should hang your head in shame for asking for others to be nerfed for your own lack of skill and knowledge. By your own description of the scenario it's clearly apparent to all experienced PvP players that the problem is 110% L2P. And you've been informed, repeatedly, by superior, knowledgeable, informed players, over and over in your previous nerf threads. Just accept that the problem lies with you and only you can fix it. Quit whining.

Aurie

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Nerf discussions are sooooooooo boring and they always feel like a battle against someone’s ranting....it’s never their fault if they lose a battle: it’s always the nasty OP other class that was made Uber!!!!

I much prefer, if I have to, to illustrate where my classes should be improved rather than demanding nerfs of the classes I play against

Mine is a plea: don’t feed nerf discussions!!! It’s like feeding a raccoon...his mates will start coming!!!

Paradoxically enough I’ve just done it 😂

Haha, agree with all that

Sanguinor2

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

ok about radiant.
my issue is that it does massive damage and is UNDODGABLE

lets say i was fighting a stamdk. they had just got me to 30%. they it execute. i DODGE. so i survive a bit longer.

YOU CANT DODGE BEAM. yes it can be bashed but at range unless ur in los ur screwed. that add the massive snares...

and im sorry that this is outdated, but the snares were not removed hence this.

You can still cloak it and you can also use the initial delay it has to heal up. You can also block and heal up. Dodgerolling when getting beamed is the worst Thing you can do.

EtTuBrutus

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

ok about radiant.
my issue is that it does massive damage and is UNDODGABLE

lets say i was fighting a stamdk. they had just got me to 30%. they it execute. i DODGE. so i survive a bit longer.

YOU CANT DODGE BEAM. yes it can be bashed but at range unless ur in los ur screwed. that add the massive snares...

and im sorry that this is outdated, but the snares were not removed hence this.

Fighting a templar? Bash it!!! Come on man! L2p issues are l2p issues... for real.

ThePhantomThorn

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

ok about radiant.
my issue is that it does massive damage and is UNDODGABLE

lets say i was fighting a stamdk. they had just got me to 30%. they it execute. i DODGE. so i survive a bit longer.

YOU CANT DODGE BEAM. yes it can be bashed but at range unless ur in los ur screwed. that add the massive snares...

and im sorry that this is outdated, but the snares were not removed hence this.

You can still cloak it and you can also use the initial delay it has to heal up. You can also block and heal up. Dodgerolling when getting beamed is the worst Thing you can do.

but thats only nb. also ritual of retrebution / jabs will instantly pull u out.
i just hate that its undodgable

ThePhantomThorn

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

ok about radiant.
my issue is that it does massive damage and is UNDODGABLE

lets say i was fighting a stamdk. they had just got me to 30%. they it execute. i DODGE. so i survive a bit longer.

YOU CANT DODGE BEAM. yes it can be bashed but at range unless ur in los ur screwed. that add the massive snares...

and im sorry that this is outdated, but the snares were not removed hence this.

Fighting a templar? Bash it!!! Come on man! L2p issues are l2p issues... for real.

its ranged. there are snares. hmm

EtTuBrutus

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

ok about radiant.
my issue is that it does massive damage and is UNDODGABLE

lets say i was fighting a stamdk. they had just got me to 30%. they it execute. i DODGE. so i survive a bit longer.

YOU CANT DODGE BEAM. yes it can be bashed but at range unless ur in los ur screwed. that add the massive snares...

and im sorry that this is outdated, but the snares were not removed hence this.

Fighting a templar? Bash it!!! Come on man! L2p issues are l2p issues... for real.

its ranged. there are snares. hmm

You're melee. You're complaining about sweeps pulling u out, so youre in melee. Why are u trying to create space against a range execute u can bash and stop for 3 seconds, and BEFORE it does ANY damage?? Geeeeez

NBrookus

Dodge: not a counter to everything.

Sanguinor2

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

but thats only nb. also ritual of retrebution / jabs will instantly pull u out.
i just hate that its undodgable

nearly no one Plays ritual of Retribution, if the templar is beaming you from range you wont stand in it anyway otherwise you could easily close the gap and bash and a beaming templar cant really cast Jabs which wont decloak on range either.

RighteousBacon

Magplar shouldn’t snare so much.
Eclipse shouldn’t snare and heal. It should do one or the other.
The gap closer shouldn’t stun, it also sets you of balance so that’s 10% more damage.

Other than this, magplar counters nightblade pretty heavily ever since they lost major defile. It’s also a bit of an L2P issue though

Dr_Ganknstein

Let's just say there isnt an abundance of templars running around cyrodiil because its challenging. That class is eso easymode right now plain and simple.

ThePhantomThorn

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Magplar shouldn’t snare so much.
Eclipse shouldn’t snare and heal. It should do one or the other.
The gap closer shouldn’t stun, it also sets you of balance so that’s 10% more damage.

Other than this, magplar counters nightblade pretty heavily ever since they lost major defile. It’s also a bit of an L2P issue though

as i said, im not the best

but you get it

MartiniDaniels

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

LMAO, wow. What a joke. Redundant snares are bad for Templar, (not bad for you) since they don't stack and can be easily countered. You have Killer's Blade which is objectively superior to beam because the damage bonus is 300% flat (doesn't scale with health) and it's non-interruptible burst. You should hang your head in shame for asking for others to be nerfed for your own lack of skill and knowledge. By your own description of the scenario it's clearly apparent to all experienced PvP players that the problem is 110% L2P. And you've been informed, repeatedly, by superior, knowledgeable, informed players, over and over in your previous nerf threads. Just accept that the problem lies with you and only you can fix it. Quit whining.

What a joke rly

Rianai

My main issue with templar atm is the snare on jabs. As it is fighting a templar means i simply can't move, which is usually a death sentence. Other snares have counterplay, but there is nothing i can do vs toppeling + jabs spam other than using rat every second gcd which will get me killed anyway.

technohic

Rianai wrote: »

My main issue with templar atm is the snare on jabs. As it is fighting a templar means i simply can't move, which is usually a death sentence. Other snares have counterplay, but there is nothing i can do vs toppeling + jabs spam other than using rat every second gcd which will get me killed anyway.

RAT in general needs its root snare immunity increased to 4 seconds. it's kind of ridiculous how short it is considering 1 global after, its half gone.

In the new patch console players dont have yet, however; the major expedition counters a 30% snare since they are additive now. People build some speed and if you are squishy, you definitely should

jao0199

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

my issues.

1. snares. templar simpily dosent need them. massive aoe 30% , 40% from spammable. i need to hit shuffle every 5 secs. they have mobility. A GAP CLOSER. not to mention rat and mist.

2. gap closer. it stuns. why. imagine if ambush stunned. yeah.

3. execute. undodgable. also does a ridiculous amount of dmg. yes it can be interrupted, but when youre at 10% hp and are snared up. ded unless in los

4. healing. now im fine with the healer class having good healing. but honor the dead can be SPAMMED. SPAMMED.


heres a screenshot of a death recap from a templar

edit: idk why but my screenshots dont show up. but death recap was 3 jabs, dev swarm, and beam


excluding the devouring swarm, the only attacks were jabs and beam. while in this fight i was constantly snared, and my usage of shuffle had drained my stam. this player hit very few skills, and as you can see it was more than adequate to kill me. this screenshot is more of how templars play rather than the numbers, demonstrating the spam of jabs without a single light attack in between.

now ill post a screenshot of my stat sheet (no potion). yes i am squishy, but you will notice i have VERY high sustain and weapon damage. i am hiting an easy 10k suprise attack without camo hunter or enchant proc (shackle, Spriggans and bloodspawn) and yet i was unable to use my classes defenses.
1. mobility, as i was constantly snared or being gap closed to.
2 shade, i couldnt get away far enough to utilise this skill.
3. i didnt have any chance to cloak, heal and re position because the templar was constantly pulling me out of cloak.

edit:3.8k wd, 2.5k recov (2.7k backbar) 18k resists 2.5k crit resists 15k mag, 33k stam 24k hp

and heres a few of my tooltips, (with just rally and cloak) which as you can see, are quite high. dispite this the templar had no problem outhealing my damage.

edit: again... 19k bow, 16.5k incap 10.3k surprise

im not the best player in the world but i can hold my own outnumberd against anything but well built magplars (or good players. talking about zerglings here) for the above reasons

heres some solutions.

1. remove snare on passive that adds it to ritual and remove it from jabs (or apply to last hit)

2. remove stun from gap closer and instead add a 30% snare. (so has 30% after gapcloser on 1 enemy rather than 30% massive aoe)

3. reduce damage. maybe 15%

4. sustain on honor the dead should apply to 30% and less targets rather that 60%

please refrain from just using l2p as your only argument. if you disagree say why. dont just go on a salty rant. keep it civilised.

yes there are other things about templar that could be considered overkill as well (eg. backlash crit and new bubble), but i am yet to test them as i play on xbox and dragonhold is not released for a further 4 days

ty for reading this i know its kinda long

Classic l2p issue

Millz

Magplar is fine just buff other classes

Marcus684

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Reaper_00 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

...
edit: idk why but my screenshots dont show up. but death recap was 3 jabs, dev swarm, and beam
...
edit:3.8k wd, 2.5k recov (2.7k backbar) 18k resists 2.5k crit resists 15k mag, 33k stam 24k hp
....
heres some solutions.
....

Odd that one of your solutions wasn’t to be more tankier.

My magplar has more spell penetration than you have resists so it’s not really surprising that you would die that quickly. If you’re up against a class that excels at locking down, the sensible thing would be to up your defence to withstand at least one CC rotation. But I guess it’s easier to ask for nerfs than it is to come up with a balanced build these days.

IKR? Man has abysmal stats for a nightblade but here he is whining for nerfs cuz he died to one class.

well whats ur resists just with shadow barrier?
unlike most classes nb has no inbuilt resistance.
if i were to spec into resists (i tried fortified brass last patch) i lose far to much damage.

i play nb as an assasin. sqishy mobile and bursty.
i am pointing out the things that i think (in my opinion) need a nerf.

if i were to "whine" id start with pets. then streak, then frags, then templar. with damage shields coming a close 5th

also dont assume peoples gender plz

And there it is. Yet another NB “assassin” that is upset that their targets now get a chance to fight back. I don’t say this often, but L2P.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I might have the strongest Jesus Beam on XBox NA when I feel like tuning my Magplar up for max damage (I can get to 60K magic and buffed to 4K spell power if I want to do nothing else) and I laugh at this post.

The main strength of a Magplar is a support player. When was the last time you were killed by Radiant when you weren’t already in a position of jeopardy that you put yourself in? It certainly wasn’t in a 1 on 1 encounter at full strength.

To maximize your Radiant damage you have to make a ton of sacrifices to your overall survivability and it’s probably the worst attack in the game when an opponent is above 35% health.

Then again, if you are complaining that someone can easily beam you in a 30 on 30 fight from behind the front line, oh well. The damage and distance are less than it used to be and people can dodge out of basically every other Magplar attack.

Fact is Radiant is a great spell but there are so many things that need to be taken into account to make it worthwhile that complaining about it probably means your build or play style needs to improve, not have Radiant be nerfed AGAIN.

Neoauspex

If all the counters to X are nerfed, then X is next. Instead of propagating that particular downward spiral, just stop trying to dodge roll a channel.

leepalmer95

I agree magplars are heavily overtuned but your reasoning on original post has nothing to do about why they are and your suggestions for the most part make no sense.

First your build is pretty bad, you have low dmg and low armour and it looks like you're a nb thats heavily reliant on cloak. Which I get the class isn't made too well beyond cloak but at the same time cloak is a super strong clutch skill. But magplar is basically the hardest counter to a squishy cloak nb in the game by far. Gap closer stun + high dmg aoe spamable which comes with a snare.

Magplar are a class you literally have to 100% to 0 before they can react which is near impossible nowadays so they take multiple people to kill. You can't really wear them down too well as they have strong Xv1 counter in the form of bubble which snares everything to a standstill, combined with its high HoT + cleanses high HoT. Then they have breath of life, which can easily crit heal for like 16k, easy. You get them low they use 1 skill and they're out of danger.

The snares are a problem yes, Snares are super strong and always have been. Magplar as a class get access to 4 different snares pretty easy. Cleanse snare which is actually a better area denying snare than caltraps which also ticks for 3k crit heals to everyone in it, bubble which is a 60% snare which is strong enough of a snare to pretty much end peoples offense against the magplar is the magplar is moving, very strong counter to anything melee, jabs/ sweep 40% snare during channel, reflective light 40% ranged snare that hits 3 ppl. Thats 4 very strong snares they access without even trying, there are plenty of classes who dont have access to a basic single target snare.

Yes templars have access to by far the best single target stun/ gap closer in the game. Very quick, instant stun, decent stun length, off balance (basically 10% dmg buff) and the ability to proc burning light which turns it into the highest damaging stun in the game. It really doesn't need to stun or it needs to lose something. Maybe remove the off balance? So its closer to something like invasion? Compare it to invasion, its basically invasion but puts people off balance and has the abilility to proc for an extra 6-8k tooltip dmg. Why?

ealdwin

So, the reason the Templar class has so many snares is because the class is designed around the idea of a "house". Templars are by design meant to mark their ground, plant their feet, and be at their strongest by staying in their "house". Allies that stand in the Templar's house receive buffs and healing and enemies that enter the house get met with divine wrath. Because of this design, Templar's are not a highly mobile class. If you look at their skills you won't find any in-class buffs to movement speed or snare removal. Compare this to the Sorcerer class, who are a highly mobile class, having access to buffs to speed, the ability to manifest as a bolt of lightning, and skills that can lock down enemies (in theory, at least). Instead, Templars find themselves more as an anti-mobility class, where they need access to snares in order to keep foes in melee range to be effective at dealing damage. The fact that Templar needs reliable access to snares is simply a feature of the design of the class.

That being said, I will admit, Templar does have a bit too many snares. I don't want to speak for all Templars, but I think you'll find a good deal of Templar's won't mind switching the snare in the Sacred Ground passive out for a buff to allies, such as Minor Vitality. This would eliminate the large ground based snares, that often don't really matter for Templar's since stronger snares exist in the class kit. Letting Sacred Ground instead grant Minor Vitality to allies would reinforce Templar's strength in healing and keep class identity.

The other snare that could be reworked is the snare off of Living Dark. If I'm being honest, I feel Eclipse and its morphs could still use some figuring out. The idea behind this ability is nice; helping Templars switch from defense to offense by punishing foes who attack them (again, think of the "house"). However, I think it could use a bit more tweaking to make it better at achieving that purpose without the potential to be overpowering.

In large though, as others in this thread have mentioned, Templar right now should be the model for where other classes should be. Does it need a few minor tweaks here and there? Sure. Does it need nerfed? No. Do the other classes need some nice buffs and some class identity restored. Yes.

leepalmer95

ealdwin wrote: »

So, the reason the Templar class has so many snares is because the class is designed around the idea of a "house". Templars are by design meant to mark their ground, plant their feet, and be at their strongest by staying in their "house". Allies that stand in the Templar's house receive buffs and healing and enemies that enter the house get met with divine wrath. Because of this design, Templar's are not a highly mobile class. If you look at their skills you won't find any in-class buffs to movement speed or snare removal. Compare this to the Sorcerer class, who are a highly mobile class, having access to buffs to speed, the ability to manifest as a bolt of lightning, and skills that can lock down enemies (in theory, at least). Instead, Templars find themselves more as an anti-mobility class, where they need access to snares in order to keep foes in melee range to be effective at dealing damage. The fact that Templar needs reliable access to snares is simply a feature of the design of the class.

That being said, I will admit, Templar does have a bit too many snares. I don't want to speak for all Templars, but I think you'll find a good deal of Templar's won't mind switching the snare in the Sacred Ground passive out for a buff to allies, such as Minor Vitality. This would eliminate the large ground based snares, that often don't really matter for Templar's since stronger snares exist in the class kit. Letting Sacred Ground instead grant Minor Vitality to allies would reinforce Templar's strength in healing and keep class identity.

The other snare that could be reworked is the snare off of Living Dark. If I'm being honest, I feel Eclipse and its morphs could still use some figuring out. The idea behind this ability is nice; helping Templars switch from defense to offense by punishing foes who attack them (again, think of the "house"). However, I think it could use a bit more tweaking to make it better at achieving that purpose without the potential to be overpowering.

In large though, as others in this thread have mentioned, Templar right now should be the model for where other classes should be. Does it need a few minor tweaks here and there? Sure. Does it need nerfed? No. Do the other classes need some nice buffs and some class identity restored. Yes.

Templars are decently mobile. There is more to mobility than simply just boosting your own speed. Magplars can put down cleanse, bubble and mist form, they have 30% speed while everyone else has 30 - 60% minimum. Making everyone slower is also a form of mobility. Outside of mag sorc magplars are the second most mobile class.