Lets talk theorycrafting - lemme hear about your most successful off-meta builds!

Gatdangmayne

So i love theorycrafting and trying out weird builds in pvp, most are total ass, but when it works, it works.

Posting this because i always said medium was better than heavy..until i made a SnB/bow nord warden with max resistances, mag for wings, ice shield and lotus, crazy ult gen (like dawnbreaker IN my perma), 3k health recovery, oh and fully buffed ~5k wpn damage.


So, now I'm brainstorming how to make heavy builds on all my stam toons lol...

Anyway, let's hear those builds!

SilverIce58

I have an Argonian stamDK who uses a bow and sword and shield, with poison and disease abilities, and leeching plate, swamp raider, and thurvokun to a great effect in battlegrounds. I'd like to get him deadly strike instead of swamp raider, just to see if it works better, but this build is quite useful to keep players off me in land grab or chaosball.

Nordic__Knights

Darkelf Stamblade Dreugh kingslayer body slimecraw Monster set with vicecanon weapons(bow/dw)& jewelry

Iskiab

Idk is you could say off-metal, but I like my DW Magblade Healer spec.

Neloth

I play magicka necromancer, think that's already off-meta enough

Grianasteri

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

So i love theorycrafting and trying out weird builds in pvp, most are total ass, but when it works, it works.

Posting this because i always said medium was better than heavy..until i made a SnB/bow nord warden with max resistances, mag for wings, ice shield and lotus, crazy ult gen (like dawnbreaker IN my perma), 3k health recovery, oh and fully buffed ~5k wpn damage.


So, now I'm brainstorming how to make heavy builds on all my stam toons lol...

Anyway, let's hear those builds!

I have 15 characters, and probably roughly half of them are off meta, themed builds made for the sheer fun and creativity of it.

However probably my most successful build is my Magden "Elemental" mage. The idea being that he is a master of wielding the elements of fire, ice, lightning. Obviously this is a PVE only build.

Caluurion
Icy Conjuror
Ilambris

35k magica
18k+ health
2.4k spell damage
47% spell crit
20k resists

I wont bore anyone with the skills or rotation, unless you ask. Its a mixture of sexy fire, ice and shock, naturally

I wish I could post pics, but its not easy from PS4

Personally, I have got it to do over 30k dps, which I was over the moon with given its a themed fun build. Visually, watching all the constant procs is... both fun and very satisfying

ps, I did consider both magsorc and magdk to build this theme around, each has pros and cons, but in the end the only viable icy aoe for the visuals, was from the Warden, so it won. Likewise there were various other sexy sets under consideration, but the ones used offer a good compromise between practical viability and the sexy visuals of the theme. Note that one can drop out Icy Conjuror with relative ease for any other set one wishes, and the builds theme is pretty much still maintained.

Skoomah

Just stop. You post the build. ZOS nerfs the build.

BXR_Lonestar

I have an Argonian Templar off-tank running Earthgore, Kragenac's, and Lich. Has around 34k Health (used to be ~ 37k before changes to structured entropy), 31k magika, 15k stamina, and 27K resists unbuffed (maxed when buffed). S/B on front bar, Resto Staff back bar. He's a good enough healer to play as a pure healer in most content, and I've solo tank/healed in a lot of difficult content, including DLC dungeons, and have taken him into trials successfully as well.

It's a tough playstyle sometimes and I don't always run around with silver-leash, since it costs stamina rather than magika. I prefer to use time stop instead for my CC, and it has the added bonus of basically increasing my health by 5k when I block.

For my front bar, I'm using Alessia's bulwark sword/shield to increase my defense, since my armor is all divines and I use the mage mundus for extra magika (increases heals too), and back bar is lich resto. I run Tri-pots to help with stamina sustain.

Front bar skills: 1 Time stop; 2 ritual of rebirth/orb; 3 pierce armor; 4) structured entropy (need to switch to degeneration); 5; stamina recovery rune focus

Back bar: 1 illustrious healing; 2 extended ritual; 3 rapid regeneration (whatever the new name for it is); 4; mage light 5; flex spot - orb, purge, power of the light or whatever else is going to help group the best.

With healing being less spam focused, I'm going to try swapping Lich out for SPC or to see if I can stack more group buffs without sustain issues. May also switch Krags to Seducer to help with sustain.

Gatdangmayne

@SilverIce58 - I really hope that's not a bowspam build lol. If you're not super attached to leeching tho, you should swap in duroks, so then with that and thurvoken you've got major and minor defile on anyone near you.


@Nordic__Knights - DKS is one of the many sets i still wanna get, pretty much so i can run non-2h builds on nb and templar lol. When i tried vicecanon a while back i pretty much instantly took it off though, the prof just really didn't seem worth it to me.

Anyway, my nb that swaps between mag n stam is a dark elf, my only toon with all skilllines maxxed out - so i recently put on 7 heavy seventh+bloodspawn+sustain set, 2h n bow, steed mundus - neither cloak morph is usually needed, super fast with race against time, rally gives great heals, about 24k resists and hits real hard. Fun af


@Iskiab - Dw...healer? I hope that's for pvp lol. Don't really see the utility but i asked for off meta lol


@Neloth - a what now?

Jk. I've seen a few magcros that honestly do the whole area denial/control thing better than just about any other class, but i still don't have one so i can't personally say.


@Grianasteri - I'm definitely more of a pvp player, but that does sound like a fun theme build. Might i suggest trying out aurorans over caluurions? IIRC, you'll some crit, gain a little health, but gain even more pen to stack with icy conjuror leaving you some extra blue cp...plus, aurorans proc is a lot more satisfying than caluurions lol.


@Skoomah - yeah yeah, there's a reason i don't post 100% of what goes into my pvp builds lol. Though i do wish there was a good place online to have good theorycrafting discussions.


@BXR_Lonestar - Sounds nice! I've ran a similar setup on my breton templar to healtank pug 4mans, been a while since I've used him in pve though.



Personally I've been trying to think of a way to use an ice staff with blockade as a backbar weapon on my stamden, just to see if i can make it work lol. Haven't actually tried anything out though.

TBois

I run Overload on my stam sorc.

https://youtu.be/X4AMdfclbG0

I am working on a similar setup now with vMA frost staff back bar.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=186569

Should have some gameplay footage of within the next couple of weeks.

Gatdangmayne

@TBois - Nice! I still need to try overload on my stamsorc, but your gears close to what i was thinking for my stamden - except, seventh on body, no vma staff, and probably not briarheart.

I figure as warden you boost frost damage, and any spell pen or power would buff my perma too. But since I'm nord and already tanky, i figured adding infused staff ice blockade should end up somewhat workable with the added snare+range attacks to proc lotus+resistance from ice staff.

There's a few sets i have in mind that should work pretty well, im pretty eager to test it out tbh.

SirAndy

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

... lemme hear about your most successful off-meta builds ...

AOE based, heavy attacking magicka Pet Sorc

SilverIce58

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

@SilverIce58 - I really hope that's not a bowspam build lol. If you're not super attached to leeching tho, you should swap in duroks, so then with that and thurvoken you've got major and minor defile on anyone near you.

Its definitely not a bowspam build, believe me I hate them too lol. And I might swap swamp raider for duroks instead of leeching. I have the sword and shield that drop from the boss (and the quest) of ICP so its nice to hear Lord Warden hate on me while I defile and poison everyone but him.

Gnortranermara

My main is a DPS/Healer hybrid. It's a far superior playstyle to "meta" healers, IMO.

One of my alts is a stam healer, which is much less effective, but super fun.

(I'm a former combat medic IRL, so it's a playstyle that jives with me.)

MincVinyl

Bosmer stamsorc with overload
this about sums it up:

https://gyazo.com/6de37454c696d14108a9d6d0fa8f6643

MincVinyl

Another one was a bosmer stamsorc destro build. It worked pretty well and could run through negates

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/539935287426416641/639552845464469504/SS_Bomb_build.png

Iskiab

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

@Iskiab - Dw...healer? I hope that's for pvp lol. Don't really see the utility but i asked for off meta lol

Yes, for pvp. It's actually OP, DW works because you get the highest tooltips and while radiating regen is great for small groups as you add more people it's less effective. Most of the other restoration staff abilities sort of blow for pvp.

People have called me out for saying things aren't OP too, but it's OP.

Iskiab

MincVinyl wrote: »

Bosmer stamsorc with overload
this about sums it up:

https://gyazo.com/6de37454c696d14108a9d6d0fa8f6643

Very Nice, yea I love overload. Think it's possible to make a pelinal hybrid build and add wrath and frags? Looking at the builder I can't figure out a way but I'm not very experienced with sorc. I'm just thinking frags + wrath + streak... maybe curse on a stamsorc would be pretty wild.

EtTuBrutus

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

So i love theorycrafting and trying out weird builds in pvp, most are total ass, but when it works, it works.

Posting this because i always said medium was better than heavy..until i made a SnB/bow nord warden with max resistances, mag for wings, ice shield and lotus, crazy ult gen (like dawnbreaker IN my perma), 3k health recovery, oh and fully buffed ~5k wpn damage.


So, now I'm brainstorming how to make heavy builds on all my stam toons lol...

Anyway, let's hear those builds!

U gain 125 ultimate in less than 8 seconds? I call bs.

MincVinyl

It sounds nice, but problem comes with how underwhelming it will be, you are better off just finding how to replace the new bound armaments in a frag rotation. Hybrid is still not close enough to competing with a simple tanky dot build.

TBois

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

@TBois - Nice! I still need to try overload on my stamsorc, but your gears close to what i was thinking for my stamden - except, seventh on body, no vma staff, and probably not briarheart.

I figure as warden you boost frost damage, and any spell pen or power would buff my perma too. But since I'm nord and already tanky, i figured adding infused staff ice blockade should end up somewhat workable with the added snare+range attacks to proc lotus+resistance from ice staff.

There's a few sets i have in mind that should work pretty well, im pretty eager to test it out tbh.

Nice, I'd like to see what you come up with when it is finished. I really want to use a lightning staff back bar instead of frost staff on my setup. Since sorc gets extra lightning damage, but frost seems better for pvp because of the cc and requirement that ppl stay in my wall of elements.

MincVinyl wrote: »

Bosmer stamsorc with overload
this about sums it up:

https://gyazo.com/6de37454c696d14108a9d6d0fa8f6643

It's nice to see another stam sorc working with overload!

TBois

Also I want to say that this is the reason I still play this game despite all its faults. There is no other mmo that I know of that has the ability to make so many possible effective setups in pvp. I just wish eso could get that going in pve too, but it is probably harder since pve is more number reliant.

MincVinyl

@TBois
Problem is that most gameplay is passive based not active based. Passives are much easier for newer/casual players to use. Thats why the dot meta took off, it was simply easier and did roughly the same amount of damage as any active build that required work and brainpower. Damage isnt the only thing too, look at tanking, pretty much anyone now can become tanky by slotting bloodspawn and popping s&b ult or resto ult over and over. Only real active based gameplay left in the game is with a true shield stacking mag sorc.(mostly patched out from the last changes to wards that nobody asked for)

4 shield magsorc
-damage requires timing, but with proper skill can compete with nearly anything
-tanking requires knowledge of what ward needs to be active to counter what, or when to not counter something
-movement means cutting into your source of tankiness and healing
-healing requires using shield stacking methods to protect your healing ward. (back to a tank rotation essentially)

Think of a magplar
- damage requires applying dots then into jabs rotation
- tanking requires holding block and waiting to press HTD
- movement consists of elusive mist
- healing consists of putting down a purify that people can automatically purify themselves, and pressing HTD

Also note, I dont really consider something like an elusive mist block templar a very active based role

Gatdangmayne

@SidewalkChalk5 - Thats dope you have a playstyle that resembles your real life! What class is your stam healer? A warden i assume?

Dps/heal is probably my main playstyle honestly, before vigor changed i would end up with tons of heals in bgs, even as a stamblade or stamsorc lol but its definitely harder now...though with warden trees on a nord, anything is possible lol.

@EtTuBrutus - It's definitely possible, even before nord got ultigen i had it happen a few times on a spin2win in a mostly s2w stamden ball group lol. But between nord, bloodspawn, and major/minor heroism, it's pretty easy to build up ult. I usually have trees+perma slotted, and can literally layer trees back to back, or drop perma roughly every 20-30 seconds.

@MincVinyl @Iskiab @TBois

So honestly i hate overload sorcs, but a hybrid overload sorc would be fun. I feel like hybrid builds are a lot more viable than you would think, you just have to pretty much min max the *** out of everything lol.

I keep coming back to a few sets that seem like the most useful for a hybrid though, mostly crafted sets actually, i just need the playtime and mats to test out combos.

That goes in with what your talking about though, the sheer number of possibilities in this game is insane. Despite the many, many flaws in eso, it is possible to 'play your way' for the most part.

As far as active gameplay, I've never been a fan of magsorc, but i would definitely say the way i play my dark cloak magblade is pretty similar to a shield sorc. Its just a matter of how you build really.

To me it just sounds like your sick of mistplars honestly lol.

MincVinyl

@Gatdangmayne
Ehh im not really sick of them, it is more of how easy and simple accomplishing the same result is. There are plenty more examples, for instance it is the same reason against proc sets (sloads, vipers, valkyn, selene, etc.)

---

If we took a new player and a vet player
Imagine giving both players simple builds that rely on just plain stats with nothing special to them (hundings + shackle)
-lets say the result is the new player can perform 5k dps, where he is making poor use of the 5 piece sets
-the vet player actively making use of these mechanics pulls off lets say 40k dps, fully utilizing the 5 pieces to the maximum

now throw proc sets like sloads, vipers, and such on them
-the new player gains the use of those 5 pieces, suddenly you will see his damage rises up to the 10-15k range
-the vet player might possibly lose total damage and drop to 35-40k, but the thing is he can be sloppy with his mechanics
both players can make use of the guaranteed passive damage with little or no effort.
(yes there is instances where people make insane uses of proc sets, I can remember several builds on different classes killing players without counter play)

---

Same thing when it comes to dots
dots act the same way proc sets do, except they require you to think about applying them (clicking one button) to gain guaranteed damage.
Now someone might argue: but cant a player click one button to use any direct damage like surprise attack, yes
but the thing is that
1. the damage standard for dots is higher, even though they require less skill and game knowledge
2. Dots recalculate certain buffs each tick (every 0.5 sec, I believe even with 2 sec tick dots [possible cause of lag])
3. dot damage once applied has no counter play other than hoping there is an angel with purge nearby (stam toons be damned)

now, why this is so bad is because someone utilizing direct builds like surprise attack must maintain buffs while fighting and the damage is reflected by how well this player can play the game and set up his build. A player utilizing dots is allowed to be lazy with bar space and game play, but can still gain the benefits of buffs (example: try applying a dot on one bar, then swap to a bar with a different weapon trait, you will see the damage change.) This is where placement doesn't matter, yet he achieves the same outcome as the player that had to slot his main source of active damage on a certain bar to gain the benefits.

---

On the topic of the hybrids, yes it is possible to run a hybrid, but you wont be able to achieve what a standard mag/stam toon would be able to. Hybrids used to be more popular before, and this was due to abilities scaling differently. Then there are the buff hoops you need to jump through for instance on a stamsorc to use overload you need to gain access to spell pen, otherwise your overload will hit as hard as any spammable.

The next hoop that you need to deal with is resource drains and bugs present in the game. Say some nerd uses resource drain poisons on you, well atleast your regen for that one stat you heavily rely on will get you back to a manageable range to stall. On a hybrid you will burn both your resources down like before, but now they both will take longer to get back to a manageable state. Then comes the bugs, would take way too long to explain, but currently in cp siphoner causes funny sustain losses in some scenarios even with only 1 cp to it. Another bug is getting double charged for some skills (you will recognize this easier on high ability costs like streak) you go from being afloat to all of a sudden "I feel like i'm suffocating even though the fight didn't change"

But in some cases slight hybridization can work like mag toons grabbing DB or stamsorcs using Overload

---

If you hate overload sorcs, go try overload and see if you can count how many bugs it has. Not to mention how clunky it feels to enter and exit. If you looked at what buffs affect overload each patch you might laugh (on pts imbue weapon didnt work with it, now on live it does). Dont even bother trying to test what cp it uses too, I swear those change daily.

Im currently working on bug testing a few strange things happening with overload that make its heavy attack worse for the caster than the receiver to use. (probs post in the bugs forum soon)

kaithuzar

The last build I posted that I still advertise

Joxer61

Wood elf running naked through the trees......nothing but a smile!

Tolino

I currently use a speedy Magden with Marauder's Hast on Backbar(s+B) and Wilpower flamestaff Frontbar.
On body bright-troth boost (i will maybe change to Amberplasma) + 1pice Domi and 1 pice Pirate skeleton. Maybe i try out if i have still enough dmg with steed. I need to do some fine tuning.

Grianasteri

Gatdangmayne wrote: »

@Grianasteri - I'm definitely more of a pvp player, but that does sound like a fun theme build. Might i suggest trying out aurorans over caluurions? IIRC, you'll some crit, gain a little health, but gain even more pen to stack with icy conjuror leaving you some extra blue cp...plus, aurorans proc is a lot more satisfying than caluurions lol.

Auroran was a set I considered along with quite a few others. However I like the crit increase I get from Caluurion and penetration is kinda covered in part by Icy Conjuror. But more than this Caluurion fits with the theme, i.e wielding all the elements, which is basically what Caluurion does!

Having said that, I am rather underwhelmed by the visual effect of Caluurion, though it is easy to see procing from you, the visual on target is over in a flash and not particularly noticeable in busy content. But, it very much fits with the build and hits hard.

HankTwo

My new, true hybrid sorc. Works better than expected in noCP PvP!

SirAndy

Joxer61 wrote: »

Wood elf running naked through the trees......nothing but a smile!

@Joxer61