HUGE DPS burst problems in group content

deleted008293

Oky the animation cancelling was just an idea... thing i was thinking was indeed lowering the dps ceiling / capping top dps.
No I don't play nor played ANY mmorpg before and I don't intend to.
Getting removed from teams has absolutely nothing to do with this post. Stay fully on topic please.
Making my own raid team is also not something I can work upon as my social / communication skills are very bad. Accent / Focus / Language barrier / Intelligence.
I do not speak for everyone but I pointed out towards something which I would pretty much like to see, a proper balance between end game and entry level. In pretty much all cases, all content is a DPS race in the end, having few changes around, like raising the low end dps and capping top end dps will allow some more people to actually play end game content and progress faster and easier.
I also point towards the fact that especially in entry level people are unable or unwilling to learn and progress through content which have mechancs into place. Not learning them will only have them coming unprepared for veteran content. Also as a person who enjoy pugging, you don't have any choices if you lets say want to zone pug some trials such as vhof vmol vas1/2 and even vcr0+
And ofc this can be paired with a towering level difficulty in which people truly looking for challenges could have access to a lot more difficulty levels.

I personally think that burning a boss, while skipping mechanics will make everyone jobs much easier. Why? First off we turn a mobile boss into a static one right? Tanks no longer need to re position the bosses in case of vHOF 1st boss or vHOF 4th boss for example which render their job far too easy. Player skills as a tank? You mean keeping uptimes up? Surviving? Or both? Most of the cases you can just "perma block / dodge" and have low to no uptimes and the team will still do the job.
As dds again they will only have to focus on localized mechanics, focusing on dps and become immobile on the battleground.
As healers. It is much easier to heal a group that sits just in front of you packed at it is just one person, with the tank in a very closed proximity.
Players skills are put into place when you as a tank must work together with your partner to re position the bosses, fast enough and without moving them too much and especially mind their heavy attacks or other mechanics that might have you insta killed. Same goes for dps and healers. If a boss is mobile enough you have to work on your re position along doing the dps or healing. Is this good enough?

I have no idea about Sunspire trial. Either way, my point stands, newer dlc dungeons and trial at least must be designed in such ways to at least avoid skipping through mechanics.

deleted008293

Jhalin wrote: »

This is the same guy who blamed the existence of carry groups for his bad social skills and subsequent ostracizing from some end-game guilds.

Definitely one for the ignore list.

Big lol to the topic, no way should animations canceling (aka the action priority system) should be removed.

Well one of the main reason for such groups existence is the gap between low end and high end dps. Which allow them to raid with less players in a team or even skip mechanics.
Second players fighting for spots into some decent teams, or people whom were friends of others from that team had me removed or made me lose spots. One reason. If we have to keep it professional. It happened to me, It happened to you, It happened in Hodor.
Player skill and social skills are also one issue and this is not unfair nor friendly to be rude with someone with lets say some health problems. And I did encounter VERY skilled players whom were avoided due to some of their medical conditions.

You have your answer now can we stay on topic?

EDIT:
Also stop accusing and judging someone whom you might not even had any direct contact in the past. People can easily exploit that in their favor. Want one example? I got accused for having my tank partner removed from a team in which we raided together due to communication and player skills. Player was simply less experienced and I wanted to help him/her with the adds stacking mechanics which he/she never played it. As a result adds were spread all over. Player raged. Team preferred me as I was with them since a long time and I was much more experienced and they removed him/her. This person accused me of stealing his/her spot. Despite the fact I left that team and simply asked the team to take this player back, this player continued to avoid me every single time we've met in the future.
Also keep in mind that some groups are very selective when it comes to their team mates, and often bring their friends whom might even be far less experienced than you into your place if for one reason or another they don't like you. And in case of a fight you get out in no time and talked behind your back in the whole community.

ruengdet2515

While boss call for mechanics to player, it could immune to all attack (all damage from player = 0) until pass his mechanic then you can burn boss hp again.

TheDarkShadow

nordmarian wrote: »

I personally think that burning a boss, while skipping mechanics will make everyone jobs much easier.

LiquidPony wrote: »

nordmarian wrote: »

fourth is the triplets. But yeah the video I saw was hodor's i guess.

Right so you aren't doing these mechanic skips.

You want to nerf stuff because you saw someone else doing something in a video? When you have no idea what it took to actually achieve that tactic in the first place?

Come now. This is ridiculous.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I wouldn’t recommend making changes based on a video you saw. I’m not sure what the context was, but I very much doubt that all the enemies in the newer vet trials were dead before the tank taunted or stacked them. I’d also say that each new trial is better than the last about mandatory mechanics. And in the few situations where mechanics are skipped for speed, it is actually a much more difficult strategy. A few examples of this are:
- Keeping Galanwe alive in vCR+3 causing enrage through entire shade phase
- Leaving all of Lokkestiiz’s Atronachs alive until he flies, resulting in more combined mechanics and damage along with the beam
- Skipping Nahviintaas’ statues, which requires a 3rd tank that has to deal with 4 of them instead of 1, and means one fewer DPS in the group for the rest of the fight

In all of these examples doing the mechanics is the easy solution, but takes slightly longer so players have invented these “hard modes” to get quicker times and higher scores.

When you can start to say a point just by quoting previous posts then I think it's time to move on.

deleted008293

Newer trials don't leave much space for that but still I will point out something.

The bigger the group dps, the faster everything goes down, the less chances to run out of resources or make serious mistakes happens.

Tsar_Gekkou

Munkfist wrote: »

nordmarian wrote: »

@LiquidPony

Let me put it this way, if rotation takes a longer time to be applied, then a larger player base might catch up with yours. Overall this will lower the wide gap between end game and entry level. Animation cancelling is one reason for which DPS can be increased by a serious margin when done right. Skill cast times or duration can also help players with a slower rotation to catch up. Don't hate them.

Please keep in mind that I do play as a tank and not as a dd. But I do feel that having a group dps too high is affecting the gameplay. You often don't even need a tank in veteran dungeons for ex, and if you go tank and 3 dds the healers would like to have a serious word with you.

So because we decide to practice our rotations, we should be brought down to those that don't want to put in work?

This right here. I don't know what kind of drugs people are taking to make them think that people who actually practice and learn should be dragged down to the level of roleplayers to make people feel better about not putting in effort. It just doesn't seem logical in the slightest. The newer content tends to require more dps than what came before it with the exception of non-hardmode vSS, so gutting overall dps would just make some things impossible, especially on console where game performance is crap and the general lag is worse.

Qbiken

Raideen wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

nordmarian wrote: »

Taking out the animation cancelling entirely.

This isn't WOW or a CRPG. The only real saving grace in ESO's combat is it's fluidity and speed. Getting rid of animation cancelling would destroy that, leaving combat clunky, slow, and less engaging.

If you want to play an MMO without animation cancelling, those exist. Go play them.

Wrong.

Animation cancelling is the biggest bane of this game. Literally. Its not intuitive and its a user interface nightmare. Clicking 1-4 and rotating between LMB is not even fun, in fact its tiresome.

This leads to people using it and people not using (rightfully so as it was not INTENDED in the design of the game).

This creates balance issues. If bosses are balanced for the additional DPS of animation cancelling then "casuals" suffer. If the boss is not balanced around animation cancelling, then the "elite" whine "game is too easy".

The only solution, and the correct solution is to remove animation cancelling.

Elitists like it because it gives them an epeen increase while they smoke a casuals DPS but I don't care about your epeen I care about the health of the game.

Animation canceling is not even a casual vs elitist thing. It's not something you need to spend hours upon hours practicing to learn, heck I even learned to animation cancel before I even knew what it was because it felt more fluid doing so.

And the "it's not intended" argument, we're way past those times when that was a legitimate counter argument. If you don't want to use it that's fine, but that's on you.

izanagiprime

I honestly think Weaving is fine. I don't pretend that i can do it perfectly, but i feel its actually pretty intuitive and something most people would have enough common sense to notice. In fact, I pretty much grasped it long before i even watched or heard of the term in this game.

But that might just be the benefits of being a long time MMO player i guess, i just saw it could it be done, and it immediately became second nature to me. Especially since i was on FFXIV right before i ditched that to come to this one. my fingers felt so... relaxed i just casually tapped a few buttons to see if i could do something while my character was mid cast, and voila.

What i FEEL that you are right about however, is the tanking. Coming from a different game, GW2, FFXIV, WoW, tanking in this game feels a lot like an after thought. As a tank in this game, all i do is taunt, gather mobs, throw one or two DotS, and then... go flat and hide behind my shield or HA because i don't have the resources to do anything else.

Basically, i feel like a useless sandbag.

This feeling is even more pronounced, as you mention, in high level trials and so on, where 70% of the population are DPS mains, most of whom are pretty geared up, and can scrub the entire dungeon by themselves if need be. Trying to play tank at lower levels is pretty miserable too, with fake healers/dpsers just charging into mobs way ahead of me while i cant contribute a damn thing and just tag along behind them because tanks don't really get dps sets until 160.

In summary, while i do feel that the current patch's DoT nerf overdid it a bit, i hope that it will help tanks and healers be more relevant in the grand scheme of things. At the very least there won't be as many people charging ahead of me, ignoring all mechanics and just burning everything down carelessly while i play tag-along kid, blowing my load every 2 unstable walls, then twiddling my thumbs until i can do something relevant again.

Huyen

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Oh gods not another DeLeTe AnImAtIoN cAnCeLiNg post. I will also tell you to git gud, practice weaving, and practive your rotation.
As for the class nonsense, Zos has to do something about stamnecros still being the best over the other classes and magcro.

Animation cancelling is something 90% of the player-base is unable to do. Wheter it be because of lag, or a disability. Its in fact an unfair advantage, to boost dps every further.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

you say "huge" I see "small"...its just like that joke about Magnum that turns out to be an S.

witchdoctor

Huyen wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Oh gods not another DeLeTe AnImAtIoN cAnCeLiNg post. I will also tell you to git gud, practice weaving, and practive your rotation.
As for the class nonsense, Zos has to do something about stamnecros still being the best over the other classes and magcro.

Animation cancelling is something 90% of the player-base is unable to do. Wheter it be because of lag, or a disability. Its in fact an unfair advantage, to boost dps every further.

90%, eh?

Cool.

Sebar80

Huyen wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Oh gods not another DeLeTe AnImAtIoN cAnCeLiNg post. I will also tell you to git gud, practice weaving, and practive your rotation.
As for the class nonsense, Zos has to do something about stamnecros still being the best over the other classes and magcro.

Animation cancelling is something 90% of the player-base is unable to do. Wheter it be because of lag, or a disability. Its in fact an unfair advantage, to boost dps every further.

Did you just called 90% of the playerbase disabled???

By your logic should we ban fast luxurious cars because it is unfair for some people to have them and for over 90% of population to never have one?
Or perhaps we should ban professional footballers because you cannot run and controll the ball like Leo Messi does??
Forever there will be Messis, sunday footbal players and big majority to lazy to even attempt kicking the ball.

LongMaySheReign

I don't get this. If it were any other kind of game, something this wouldn't even be discussed. It's like not being able to aim properly on a shooter game and asking for an auto aim. THIS is what determines the skill in this game for years, believe it or not. It didn't magically appear out of nowhere, like the major vulnurability or huge nerfs on this patch. Get over it people.

As for the burst videos, you probably saw the major vulnurability stacking videos, which was already discussed here countless times, and led to changes this patch. No need to discuss something that's in the past.

There'll always be difference between the best, mediocre and the worst players in any game(same goes for other talents irl). You guys just need to accept this at some point. I'm tired of seeing the same complaints on this forum again and again, I'm sure many people feel the same.

LongMaySheReign

P.S. Light attacking also plays a role in becoming a good healer/tank not only DD.

Vlad9425

nordmarian wrote: »

This one here happened to run content from n trials zone till vet hard mode content in some really powerful groups.

Keep in mind that I am speaking about this from a tank perspective and I wont change to a DPS anytime in the distant future.

Asking for nerfs to DPS and removal of animation cancelling when you don’t even play as a Damage Dealer is a bit hypocritical. This is similar to those who only play Magicka asking for Vigor to be nerfed not realising that many Stam builds would be rendered useless without it.

deleted008293

I know how this sounds like but as someone said a bit above, those situation create imbalance between classes, in dlc/group dungeons it render healers useless or even tanks. In trials again it make tanks less noticeable. As a tank I can say this much... stuffs gets very boring when all you have to do is simply keep still a boss and apply debuffs. I personally want to see movement. Standing still and even perma blocking everyone can do it. If a boss moves then uptimes also suffer, this is what actually increase someone skills. Movement on the battlefield, not standing still and doing dps, tanking or healing.

Clearly I didn't wanted to sound disrespectful towards those who are spending nights trying to practice and improve their dps, nor to the theory builders.

Keep in mind that since I mostly play a tank and very few times as a DD I'm not too experienced nor aware about how to properly time or use animation cancelling or weaving. My aim is not to destroy end game, nor the entry level, but to lower that ceiling by a margin and increase the amount of players who can actually participate into veteran mmo content.

Transairion

Personally the only thing wrong with animation-cancelling/weaving/whatever in PvE is just the sheer amount of DPS it adds compared to skill use...

... like, having all these 80,000 - 90,000 damage parses with ~25% damage coming from light attacks alone?

That seems obscenely high to me.

b95fister

I’ll add my usual post to this thread again....
Dps is the easiest mechanic to learn, you don’t need a team to help you, you just practice.

Dungeon and trial mechanics are harder because you have to have a team too practice.

Finally I’ll use my scalecaller peak 1st boss example AGAIN.

Will capping dps teach players to get frozen to avoid the ice one shot?
Will removing weaving teach players to get behind the ice wall to avoid the one shot?

This content is a year and more old and propel still have not learned these basic mechanics.

Is lowering dps going to solve this (one example) issue?????

NO the fact is the game for whatever reason does not yeah you any mechanics because the vast majority of content does not require any thought..just press buttons and things die. So when people you come up against something harder then that they think it’s not their fault but someone/something else.

If I had 100gold for everyone that told me ‘I beat this in normal easy so I don’t understand why I am dieting in vet..the healer isn’t healing me/tank isn’t taunting etc’. I’d be a eso trillioniare.

Sebar80

nordmarian wrote: »

I know how this sounds like but as someone said a bit above, those situation create imbalance between classes, in dlc/group dungeons it render healers useless or even tanks. In trials again it make tanks less noticeable. As a tank I can say this much... stuffs gets very boring when all you have to do is simply keep still a boss and apply debuffs. I personally want to see movement. Standing still and even perma blocking everyone can do it. If a boss moves then uptimes also suffer, this is what actually increase someone skills. Movement on the battlefield, not standing still and doing dps, tanking or healing.

Clearly I didn't wanted to sound disrespectful towards those who are spending nights trying to practice and improve their dps, nor to the theory builders.

Keep in mind that since I mostly play a tank and very few times as a DD I'm not too experienced nor aware about how to properly time or use animation cancelling or weaving. My aim is not to destroy end game, nor the entry level, but to lower that ceiling by a margin and increase the amount of players who can actually participate into veteran mmo content.

You have no idea what you talking about even as a tank. Light attack weaving absolutly should be used as a tank it will be far from 0.9 ratio but otherwise how you are going to ensure high uptimes of certain enchants, poisons or proc certain passives? Have you been ever in to vas +2 as ot???

If you think burning strategy takes from the tank, again you have no idea or never try one. vCR+3 with only 2 tanks and last mini left alive its one of the most difficult things to pull off. Yes, it looks easy on video yet it very difficult to do when you are doing it. I had by far more relaxed time doing it a standard way than burn strategy. Also you see one successful run on video but you dont see dozens of failed ones and tension and stress of people doing it. Try to survive in the middle permablocking enraged triplets, would be fun to watch you doing it since it is so simple.

Nothing you preaching will open content for more people, in the contrary middle group will be pushed out of the content all together but yes this very painful to your eyes burns will no longer happen.

Do you think groups who can burn hm rakkat on the 3rd platform will suffer more or those who can make it now on the 5th or 7th??? Or those who are close but cannot get it done yet??

If you think anything you say will make more player to do and finish vet content you are clearly delusional

starkerealm

Transairion wrote: »

Personally the only thing wrong with animation-cancelling/weaving/whatever in PvE is just the sheer amount of DPS it adds compared to skill use...

... like, having all these 80,000 - 90,000 damage parses with ~25% damage coming from light attacks alone?

That seems obscenely high to me.

It is obscenely high, because the people pulling 80-90k parses can't actually do 80-90k DPS. They can get those parses on the Iron Attronach dummy. But, the numbers it gives are grossly inflated because it's pre-debuffed.

There's a lot of focus on trial dummy parses these days, but the numbers it gives are not real.

kwando

nordmarian wrote: »

I recently come upon some trial videos in which people are skipping every single mechanic possible and simply go for shielding and burst. I really don't think this is how trials should be completed in the first place. Skipping mechanics doesn't make you better. What makes you better is doing the mechanics and stacking the adds in such ways you are fast enough, good enough, and survive long enough, and make use of proper buffs and debuffs to obtain a legit clear.
Personally as a tank I do feel useless in a trial in which everyone burst everything around me. In such situations you don't even need to aggro certain adds, stack them or even pay much attention to buffs and debuffs, boss and adds damage and mechanics as everything is melting way too fast.

We were in the serious need of some balance changes, not sure if this patch is the one but I hope we are going into the right direction. In the end all we need is to lower the ceiling between entry level and end game. Having that said, a lot more people will be able to attend content which are out of their level currently. The more the opportunities people have, the less fights over players and spots into dedicated group dungeons and raid groups and also the better the chances more people will be willing to learn and progress instead of going for carry runs as tanks, dps or healers. This will also increase competition.

Few basic changes I would like to see:
- Taking out the animation cancelling entirely. A vast majority of players have no idea or cannot play at such rate that they can use it in their favor. Those few seconds saved in the long run can increase someone DPS with ~30-50% or more, causing a really wide gap between entry level and end game.
- LA/HA and Skills Damage should be increased with unique skills from various classes/sets to prevent teams using same class/sets meta. But it should also be capped and not allowed too many buffs to be active simultaneity. One idea I am thinking off is adding passives for races which affect the group around them.

If you knew how animation canceling was brought in this game then you would know it is not gonna change.

LiquidPony

Transairion wrote: »

Personally the only thing wrong with animation-cancelling/weaving/whatever in PvE is just the sheer amount of DPS it adds compared to skill use...

... like, having all these 80,000 - 90,000 damage parses with ~25% damage coming from light attacks alone?

That seems obscenely high to me.

LAs do that much damage specifically on magicka builds because of the Maelstrom Staff. And also, think about it: nearly 50% of your casts are light attacks.

LiquidPony

Huyen wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Oh gods not another DeLeTe AnImAtIoN cAnCeLiNg post. I will also tell you to git gud, practice weaving, and practive your rotation.
As for the class nonsense, Zos has to do something about stamnecros still being the best over the other classes and magcro.

Animation cancelling is something 90% of the player-base is unable to do. Wheter it be because of lag, or a disability. Its in fact an unfair advantage, to boost dps every further.

It's not an unfair advantage. It's just an advantage. "90%" of the playerbase isn't being held back by lag or disability.

starkerealm wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Personally the only thing wrong with animation-cancelling/weaving/whatever in PvE is just the sheer amount of DPS it adds compared to skill use...

... like, having all these 80,000 - 90,000 damage parses with ~25% damage coming from light attacks alone?

That seems obscenely high to me.

It is obscenely high, because the people pulling 80-90k parses can't actually do 80-90k DPS. They can get those parses on the Iron Attronach dummy. But, the numbers it gives are grossly inflated because it's pre-debuffed.

There's a lot of focus on trial dummy parses these days, but the numbers it gives are not real.

People do actually hit those numbers on quite a few bosses, though. Yolo, Zha'jassa, Rakkhat, Ra-Kotu, pretty much every boss in vAA, etc.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Raisin wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Just to humor the actual topic: This is the opposite of the problem we are facing right now. I understand you may have felt this way at some point, but it's just absolutely not relevant with the current patch. Copy paste this post, wait until this issue pops up again.
Lowering DPS also doesn't help people who already couldn't achieve certain content. If you wanna talk about LA-weaving, I believe we have enough threads about that already... and yeah sure, let's take away an integral combat mechanic that makes ESO combat unique and interesting. Cause that's a better solution than just telling ZOS to actually teach players how to play.

Anyway, subtle as he may be, OP is slowly becoming too obvious with the baiting. Patch lowers damage a lot? Let's make this post to trigger people. Now repeat that times 20 and you have this guy's post history. At this point it's obviously just 'post something a lot of people will disagree with and play the part of the naive OP' over and over again. Sophisticated trolling.

If you have any love for the game and genuinely educated opinions, don't waste them on this please. Put them where it matters. Have a lovely day everyone.

Please, do read my post history lol. You’ll prove yourself wrong. My posts are either questions about game mechanics or sets, because unlike you, I strive to be better and not complain about low DPS being everyone else’s fault. I also make anti nerf posts because nerfs got YOU and the other upset people here, that lower DPS. I’ve said it several times in posts DoTs needed tuning not a nerf and I’ve always been against increasing cost. if you weren’t so ridiculous, throwing around false claims about me baiting you would know this. But hey, it’s easier to make things up than be productive right?

Just because you don’t like the opinion doesn’t mean it’s baiting. Have fun in your echo chamber. Hell I’m not top 1% but I can complete all content. Its seems the top 1% isn’t the issue, it’s clearly the bottom 1% complaining and people whose numbers were severely inflated by over powered DoTs and now their Epeens are hurt because theyre not doing 100k DPS anymore.

The only person baiting here is you.

Did you just accidentally show us your second forum account?

Edit: TBH this guy doesn't sound like OP and OP has been active in this thread, so it seems a bit unlikely? But here we are. Why go into a random thread you've never posted in, pretend to be OP, get offended by things said to OP, and spew such *** at me?

(I don't DD btw and have never hit 70k on an iron atro, so stop crying on me plz)

Actually, and I’ll leave this all for comedic effect, I had a post talking about DPS drop this patch and had about 34 replies in 10 minutes. They were flooding my notifications box. Somehow when I clicked the notifications it brought me to here. I of course expected it to bring me to my post. Your reply to THIS post was the last post at the time I logged on to my account, on the topic. Honest to god, thought you were replying to way you did to my post and the saying I only ever baited or trolled. I’d didn’t notice until just now clicking on this post and reading through it and noticing your post and my reply, then I double taked at the thread name. At first I was like “did ZoS seriously change my post title?!”

Long story short, I replied to the wrong thread because I was overloaded on notifications and clicked the wrong thing. you were talking about OP of this thread and not my thread lol. So my need to defend my honor was clearly not needed. Sorry!!!!! Hope you at least get a laugh from this!

jypcy

starkerealm wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Personally the only thing wrong with animation-cancelling/weaving/whatever in PvE is just the sheer amount of DPS it adds compared to skill use...

... like, having all these 80,000 - 90,000 damage parses with ~25% damage coming from light attacks alone?

That seems obscenely high to me.

It is obscenely high, because the people pulling 80-90k parses can't actually do 80-90k DPS. They can get those parses on the Iron Attronach dummy. But, the numbers it gives are grossly inflated because it's pre-debuffed.

There's a lot of focus on trial dummy parses these days, but the numbers it gives are not real.

I don’t doubt that some people hitting 80-90 on the iron atro will never see that in a real trial, but yeah, I saw a 100k ST parse as early as Murkmire, before the iron atro was even out (Ra-Kotu, stamnb if curious). There are also trials where other factors come into play and make a 90k ST parse unrealistic, but it’s not like it’s a total fiction.

JonnytheKing

I think every skill should have a 3 second cool down so i can really think wat i want to do , its just too hard if this dosent happen

starkerealm

jypcy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Personally the only thing wrong with animation-cancelling/weaving/whatever in PvE is just the sheer amount of DPS it adds compared to skill use...

... like, having all these 80,000 - 90,000 damage parses with ~25% damage coming from light attacks alone?

That seems obscenely high to me.

It is obscenely high, because the people pulling 80-90k parses can't actually do 80-90k DPS. They can get those parses on the Iron Attronach dummy. But, the numbers it gives are grossly inflated because it's pre-debuffed.

There's a lot of focus on trial dummy parses these days, but the numbers it gives are not real.

I don’t doubt that some people hitting 80-90 on the iron atro will never see that in a real trial, but yeah, I saw a 100k ST parse as early as Murkmire, before the iron atro was even out (Ra-Kotu, stamnb if curious). There are also trials where other factors come into play and make a 90k ST parse unrealistic, but it’s not like it’s a total fiction.

It is a total fiction from most of the people claiming they can hit those numbers. You get that high if you've got a really well honed group. You don't get those numbers on your own.

jypcy

starkerealm wrote: »

jypcy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Personally the only thing wrong with animation-cancelling/weaving/whatever in PvE is just the sheer amount of DPS it adds compared to skill use...

... like, having all these 80,000 - 90,000 damage parses with ~25% damage coming from light attacks alone?

That seems obscenely high to me.

It is obscenely high, because the people pulling 80-90k parses can't actually do 80-90k DPS. They can get those parses on the Iron Attronach dummy. But, the numbers it gives are grossly inflated because it's pre-debuffed.

There's a lot of focus on trial dummy parses these days, but the numbers it gives are not real.

I don’t doubt that some people hitting 80-90 on the iron atro will never see that in a real trial, but yeah, I saw a 100k ST parse as early as Murkmire, before the iron atro was even out (Ra-Kotu, stamnb if curious). There are also trials where other factors come into play and make a 90k ST parse unrealistic, but it’s not like it’s a total fiction.

It is a total fiction from most of the people claiming they can hit those numbers. You get that high if you've got a really well honed group. You don't get those numbers on your own.

Hmm, I’m afraid I’m missing the point of that distinction. I don’t think anyone serious is under the delusion that they could walk into a trial solo and pull those same numbers. Those numbers are feasible in practice, and it’s due to having very good support from your teammates as well as being a highly competent dps.

Which ends up circling back to the topic: good players, and especially good supports, enable these big numbers in practice which leads to burn strats (alongside other factors). Being able to execute a burn strat is an indicator of skilled play from all roles.

Were such numbers entirely fictitious in practice, it’s possible some of the higher end burn strats would not actually be possible.

Raisin

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Just to humor the actual topic: This is the opposite of the problem we are facing right now. I understand you may have felt this way at some point, but it's just absolutely not relevant with the current patch. Copy paste this post, wait until this issue pops up again.
Lowering DPS also doesn't help people who already couldn't achieve certain content. If you wanna talk about LA-weaving, I believe we have enough threads about that already... and yeah sure, let's take away an integral combat mechanic that makes ESO combat unique and interesting. Cause that's a better solution than just telling ZOS to actually teach players how to play.

Anyway, subtle as he may be, OP is slowly becoming too obvious with the baiting. Patch lowers damage a lot? Let's make this post to trigger people. Now repeat that times 20 and you have this guy's post history. At this point it's obviously just 'post something a lot of people will disagree with and play the part of the naive OP' over and over again. Sophisticated trolling.

If you have any love for the game and genuinely educated opinions, don't waste them on this please. Put them where it matters. Have a lovely day everyone.

Please, do read my post history lol. You’ll prove yourself wrong. My posts are either questions about game mechanics or sets, because unlike you, I strive to be better and not complain about low DPS being everyone else’s fault. I also make anti nerf posts because nerfs got YOU and the other upset people here, that lower DPS. I’ve said it several times in posts DoTs needed tuning not a nerf and I’ve always been against increasing cost. if you weren’t so ridiculous, throwing around false claims about me baiting you would know this. But hey, it’s easier to make things up than be productive right?

Just because you don’t like the opinion doesn’t mean it’s baiting. Have fun in your echo chamber. Hell I’m not top 1% but I can complete all content. Its seems the top 1% isn’t the issue, it’s clearly the bottom 1% complaining and people whose numbers were severely inflated by over powered DoTs and now their Epeens are hurt because theyre not doing 100k DPS anymore.

The only person baiting here is you.

Did you just accidentally show us your second forum account?

Edit: TBH this guy doesn't sound like OP and OP has been active in this thread, so it seems a bit unlikely? But here we are. Why go into a random thread you've never posted in, pretend to be OP, get offended by things said to OP, and spew such *** at me?

(I don't DD btw and have never hit 70k on an iron atro, so stop crying on me plz)

Actually, and I’ll leave this all for comedic effect, I had a post talking about DPS drop this patch and had about 34 replies in 10 minutes. They were flooding my notifications box. Somehow when I clicked the notifications it brought me to here. I of course expected it to bring me to my post. Your reply to THIS post was the last post at the time I logged on to my account, on the topic. Honest to god, thought you were replying to way you did to my post and the saying I only ever baited or trolled. I’d didn’t notice until just now clicking on this post and reading through it and noticing your post and my reply, then I double taked at the thread name. At first I was like “did ZoS seriously change my post title?!”

Long story short, I replied to the wrong thread because I was overloaded on notifications and clicked the wrong thing. you were talking about OP of this thread and not my thread lol. So my need to defend my honor was clearly not needed. Sorry!!!!! Hope you at least get a laugh from this!

Yeah that's pretty funny.

WrathOfInnos

Huyen wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Oh gods not another DeLeTe AnImAtIoN cAnCeLiNg post. I will also tell you to git gud, practice weaving, and practive your rotation.
As for the class nonsense, Zos has to do something about stamnecros still being the best over the other classes and magcro.

Animation cancelling is something 90% of the player-base is unable to do. Wheter it be because of lag, or a disability. Its in fact an unfair advantage, to boost dps every further.

Animation cancelling is something nearly 100% of the player base does, just a small % don’t understand what it is or realize that they do it. Next time you need to block or interrupt an incoming attack, make sure that you wait until your character finishes any skill animations and returns to the idle stance before pressing the key. Or as another example, try bar swapping immediately after casting Dark Exchange. Or if you’ve been around a while, think back on the old version of Overload, where Light Attacks were on the GCD of skills. All of these examples are clunky and unresponsive gameplay. Please stop asking for terrible ideas to be implemented.