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Which type of player are they aiming to please ?
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Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@phermitgb
Excellent post. Bit of clarity and reason amongst all the peevishness.0 -
Razzledazzle_dar✭✭✭One word: Capitalism.
Spend the least money to make the most.
Example: Reskinning a mount and then putting it in a loot box with a 0.000001% chance of a pull is cheaper than adding content to the game that is meaningful or fixing major problems that require labor.
Some companies find ways to do this while pleasing their community, but if ZoS can get away with making money with less effort on their part (which so far they are) it will continue along at that path until it is no longer profitable.AD PC/NA4 -
Fang_of_Lorkhaj✭✭✭✭The casual player takes priority over any other player due to their numbers. There is definitely more casuals than pvp-ers and pve-ers. You see this in dungeon like frost vault. Too many casuals complaining that to obtain certain achievements is near impossible for them so the swift action is to make the item obtainable through a regular completion, not to mention casuals while also being the majority of the player base also dump loads of money into the crown store. So when you look at it from a business perspective, casuals will be catered to because that's what keeps the lights on at ZOS.0
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svendf✭✭✭✭I think ZOS are trying to please/address a number of different types of player, including
Solo questers - ZOS are delivering interesting and fun content
Home developers - new homes, furniture and furniture recipes
Dungeon/trials group players - new dungeons and trials
Elite PvE - trying to develop new challenges while limiting dps burn tactics
PvP - trying to balance classes and races to improve gameplay and avoid a one build rules meta
These groups aren’t mutually exclusive, players can belong to one, many or all.
One of ZOS’s challenges is that players are more numerous and infinitely more capable than they are. Players will find and exploit any opportunity to ‘game’ the game, which in some cases (eg the ‘just burn the boss, ignore the mechanics’ or ‘everyone wear Sloads in PvP’) is counter productive. So some of their work will involve changing skills, passives etc to promote more variation or to ensure players have to do more of the mechanics.
I think one challenge ZOS has is that at the more popular end of the game (solo questing etc) players are only going to notice improvements, while at the more challenging end (PvP, endgame dungeons/trials, forum members) you’re only going to notice or be bothered by the negatives.
Agreed very good ponts
Thank`s0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Didnt they say in one of those live things a few months back that it was the hardcore end game folk they were designing stuff for? Not us casual kill a dragon and have fun types?
Yes. In the latest eso live (about five weeks ago) they basically said exactly that.
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BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fang_of_Lorkhaj wrote: »The casual player takes priority over any other player due to their numbers. There is definitely more casuals than pvp-ers and pve-ers. You see this in dungeon like frost vault. Too many casuals complaining that to obtain certain achievements is near impossible for them so the swift action is to make the item obtainable through a regular completion, not to mention casuals while also being the majority of the player base also dump loads of money into the crown store. So when you look at it from a business perspective, casuals will be catered to because that's what keeps the lights on at ZOS.
They said during eso live that the casual player who logs in “just to kill some dragons” is NOT their target audience. They said so specifically.2 -
Daedric_NB_187✭✭✭✭✭Fang_of_Lorkhaj wrote: »The casual player takes priority over any other player due to their numbers. There is definitely more casuals than pvp-ers and pve-ers. You see this in dungeon like frost vault. Too many casuals complaining that to obtain certain achievements is near impossible for them so the swift action is to make the item obtainable through a regular completion, not to mention casuals while also being the majority of the player base also dump loads of money into the crown store. So when you look at it from a business perspective, casuals will be catered to because that's what keeps the lights on at ZOS.
They said during eso live that the casual player who logs in “just to kill some dragons” is NOT their target audience. They said so specifically.
Actions speak louder than words.Edited by Daedric_NB_187 on October 23, 2019 11:39AM5 -
The_Lex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I can't imagine how amazing this game would be if the devs spent as much time and care into it that Rich Lambert spends on his weekend, back yard barbeques. And those barbeques look amazing.
Edited by The_Lex on October 23, 2019 11:43AM2 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Didnt they say in one of those live things a few months back that it was the hardcore end game folk they were designing stuff for? Not us casual kill a dragon and have fun types?
Yes. In the latest eso live (about five weeks ago) they basically said exactly that.
They said that in terms of the combat updates, which are primarily designed to balance PvP and reduce the ‘f-ing broken’ high DPS numbers some PvE players are getting.
Not a surprise as the people on the stream were from the combat development team. Similarly Finn has said that his dungeon developers are designing with group dungeon players, especially endgame ones in mind. While the guys leading the new DLC would say it’s for everyone, but with the solo quester and the casual kill a dragon and have fun types way to the forefront.
2 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS only cares about old, hardcore players who are obsessed with the game and spend 100 euros every month on crowns and new players who are clueless and are willing to pay that amount.2 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They are trying to do a split and will only end up hurting their balls with it2 -
beadabow✭✭✭It's not about money. It's about world domination. ZOS and other corporations are conditioning the population for the overlord's arrival. Submit. Accept. Your words mean nothing. NOW BOW!!!!1 -
MakoFore✭✭✭✭✭
✭because.. no gamers play this anymore. they've taken the competitive and performance out of the game entirely.2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Didnt they say in one of those live things a few months back that it was the hardcore end game folk they were designing stuff for? Not us casual kill a dragon and have fun types?
Yes. In the latest eso live (about five weeks ago) they basically said exactly that.
No they didnt. Plus context of what they said really matters. They for example said in last eso live that they want to standarize abilities so common crowd will find it more fun to theorycraft and dont care about tooltips and end game players will just choose what deals the most damage anyway.3 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not about money. It's about world domination. ZOS and other corporations are conditioning the population for the overlord's arrival. Submit. Accept. Your words mean nothing. NOW BOW!!!!
im afraid i have a little bit of a bowing problem. I guess ill have to be destroyed
Edited by Rungar on October 23, 2019 12:13PMOld Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Their goal is not to satisfy players, its to satisfy their bank account.
Other game companies (ESP indy) make games to be fun, and earn their money that way.
ZO$ makes games to make money, and fun takes a back seat.
Sadly...they don't get it.
I don't think its working very well for them so far.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fang_of_Lorkhaj wrote: »The casual player takes priority over any other player due to their numbers. There is definitely more casuals than pvp-ers and pve-ers. You see this in dungeon like frost vault. Too many casuals complaining that to obtain certain achievements is near impossible for them so the swift action is to make the item obtainable through a regular completion, not to mention casuals while also being the majority of the player base also dump loads of money into the crown store. So when you look at it from a business perspective, casuals will be catered to because that's what keeps the lights on at ZOS.
They said during eso live that the casual player who logs in “just to kill some dragons” is NOT their target audience. They said so specifically.
They actually said something completly opposite. They were saying that average players that log in to kill dragon dont care about numbers and hardcore players are and this is why they want to balance numbers to get them closer together so everyone will be happy and casuals wont be forced to slot BiS abilities. Here is the clip. It starts at 1:01:57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb9H1kwF25w&t=3717s Edited by Juhasow on October 23, 2019 12:27PM6 -
ZOS_JesCadminGreetings, we've removed a few nonconstructive and bashing comments. This is a friendly reminder to adhere to forum rules when posting. Thank you.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site5 -
OphiuchusSoul Shrivenwhat they are finding these days are game addicts, ZO$ knows they have game addicts, that will keep playing and playing and playing, along with a nice revenue flow, they know they will get their revenue from the game addicts.
Simply pushing a drug (game), you just got to know when to respect and take advantage of their weakness, make adjustments as needed.
There are players that just hate PvP, and will not PvP no matter what, they actually careless about PvP.
Then you have players that love to get that endgame gear just to fit in with the rest.
You pay for what you get, make the best of it0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Didnt they say in one of those live things a few months back that it was the hardcore end game folk they were designing stuff for? Not us casual kill a dragon and have fun types?
Yes. In the latest eso live (about five weeks ago) they basically said exactly that.
No they didnt. Plus context of what they said really matters. They for example said in last eso live that they want to standarize abilities so common crowd will find it more fun to theorycraft and dont care about tooltips and end game players will just choose what deals the most damage anyway.Fang_of_Lorkhaj wrote: »The casual player takes priority over any other player due to their numbers. There is definitely more casuals than pvp-ers and pve-ers. You see this in dungeon like frost vault. Too many casuals complaining that to obtain certain achievements is near impossible for them so the swift action is to make the item obtainable through a regular completion, not to mention casuals while also being the majority of the player base also dump loads of money into the crown store. So when you look at it from a business perspective, casuals will be catered to because that's what keeps the lights on at ZOS.
They said during eso live that the casual player who logs in “just to kill some dragons” is NOT their target audience. They said so specifically.
They actually said something completly opposite. They were saying that average players that log in to kill dragon dont care about numbers and hardcore players are and this is why they want to balance numbers to get them closer together so everyone will be happy and casuals wont be forced to slot BiS abilities. Here is the clip. It starts at 1:01:57https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb9H1kwF25w&t=3717s
No.https://youtu.be/Yb9H1kwF25w
GilliamtheRogue 1:01:50 min: "..what kind of players experience the game in different ways, and what is our target audience with some these changes. So like in some of these cases it's a numbers game which not everyone really cares about. The average player who's going to come on and just kill some dragons or stuff like that, they don't care if they're spammable is doing a billion damage..." (Emphasis mine.)
Wheeler: "Well I would."
They tried to walk it back, but it was pretty clear.
They go on to to say they are focused on the end game group. And that the endgame players "...thats's where a lot of the number balancing, in terms of why things get buffed or nerfed is, like, its focused on that group in terms of making sure that we have a healthy game that everyone can experience..." (Again emphasis mine.)
They are focused on the 1% the other 99% are not their "focus". That is why the game is suffering.
The combat team consists of a guy who does not do PvE content, and another one who thinks people who log onto kill dragons don't care about their dps so won't consider them in the combat decisions.10 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seeing all the negative posts on this forum I'm not sure who they are aiming this game at, I mean which type of player are they trying to satisfy ?
Whales, interior decorator sim, dress-up, rp cat speak, story, look at my cute non-combat pet type of players...the easy-to-please group.Edited by Wolfpaw on October 23, 2019 1:27PM4 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Didnt they say in one of those live things a few months back that it was the hardcore end game folk they were designing stuff for? Not us casual kill a dragon and have fun types?
Yes. In the latest eso live (about five weeks ago) they basically said exactly that.
No they didnt. Plus context of what they said really matters. They for example said in last eso live that they want to standarize abilities so common crowd will find it more fun to theorycraft and dont care about tooltips and end game players will just choose what deals the most damage anyway.Fang_of_Lorkhaj wrote: »The casual player takes priority over any other player due to their numbers. There is definitely more casuals than pvp-ers and pve-ers. You see this in dungeon like frost vault. Too many casuals complaining that to obtain certain achievements is near impossible for them so the swift action is to make the item obtainable through a regular completion, not to mention casuals while also being the majority of the player base also dump loads of money into the crown store. So when you look at it from a business perspective, casuals will be catered to because that's what keeps the lights on at ZOS.
They said during eso live that the casual player who logs in “just to kill some dragons” is NOT their target audience. They said so specifically.
They actually said something completly opposite. They were saying that average players that log in to kill dragon dont care about numbers and hardcore players are and this is why they want to balance numbers to get them closer together so everyone will be happy and casuals wont be forced to slot BiS abilities. Here is the clip. It starts at 1:01:57https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb9H1kwF25w&t=3717s
No.https://youtu.be/Yb9H1kwF25w
GilliamtheRogue 1:01:50 min: "..what kind of players experience the game in different ways, and what is our target audience with some these changes. So like in some of these cases it's a numbers game which not everyone really cares about. The average player who's going to come on and just kill some dragons or stuff like that, they don't care if they're spammable is doing a billion damage..." (Emphasis mine.)
Wheeler: "Well I would."
They tried to walk it back, but it was pretty clear.
They go on to to say they are focused on the end game group. And that the endgame players "...thats's where a lot of the number balancing, in terms of why things get buffed or nerfed is, like, its focused on that group in terms of making sure that we have a healthy game that everyone can experience..." (Again emphasis mine.)
They are focused on the 1% the other 99% are not their "focus". That is why the game is suffering.
The combat team consists of a guy who does not do PvE content, and another one who thinks people who log onto kill dragons don't care about their dps so won't consider them in the combat decisions.
^^ This, they explicitly said they only care about hardcore end gamers and noone else matters when it comes to balance. There’s your answer folks.2 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭No clue, 35% of my FL quit patch day, more have recently let me know they're also leavingDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling0 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Their goal is not to satisfy players, its to satisfy their bank account.
Other game companies (ESP indy) make games to be fun, and earn their money that way.
ZO$ makes games to make money, and fun takes a back seat.
Sadly...they don't get it.
Lol why do you even come here. Indy games come to make more money then ZOS. Look at the mobile games market and the Epic games store, it's all indie games making games designed to make you spend money. It's not really the same. Go play WoW.1 -
Thannazzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭They thought the dps was too high with the upper echelon endgame players so they nerfed dps.
Problem is upper echelon players can still do what they do. But the rest of us mere mortals got their dps wrecked.
The worst part is the combat team is perfectly fine with it. In fact they don't care about the common player, this nerf patches "targeted" audience is the upper echelon players.
Your so right. And the sadder thing is there was a plethora of feedback on the Pts that told them exactly that and had broadly been ignored.3
