Uppercut

Chilly-McFreeze

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seems like a L2R issue on your end.

This is about Fawn's suggestion, not about it's current or former state.
The loss of 30% dmg AND all side effects would be a bad idea, even without cast time. That's it. Not hard to understand is it?
And don't act like SA has no secondary effects. That's just disingenuous.

P.S. I asked the a dozend times this past months but I do it again, just for you: please show me the ultimate that is Single Target and Melee that hits for just as much as Dizzy. Especially in this patch. On a similar build of course. Not that you come up with a sustain or tank build vs a pure dmg spec. If you can't, please stop using that hyperbole. It doesn't help your cause.

But I guess that won't happen. Just like you don't care about balance at all since you said several times you only care about NBs.

You keep putting this single target direct damage special pleading style pre requisite on an ultimate being the same style as dizzying swing to have to be comparable in damage, the point being made is that d swing pre patch hit harder than many ultimates in the game FOR A SPAMMABLE, name another direct damage weapon ability that hits the same damage as d swing, and on top of that it had buggy cc that made combos extremely easy to land. Sa has some added effects that require a specific playstyle and combination to proc. My cause has been solved as d swing got the nerf it deserved, it seems there are a load of stamsorc and some stamdk mains that are unhappy that the combination d swing, onslaught, executioner doesn’t have the same effectiveness it did last patch.

I keep pleading it because it makes no sense otherwise. If some guys keep repeating „ds hits as hard as ults“ while actually meaning an aoe ranged ult then it’s simply a biased and bad comparison for agenda‘s sake.

If something’s buggy then the usual approach is to fix it, not to gut it because of a bug. I don’t really understand this kind of attitude.

Yes, that „cause“ is solved for you. Does not change the fact that your alternative suggestion would have been even worse.

And just how can it be that the classes without class spam complain about the nerf to the last good general spam? Why do magcros are upset about community suggested vamp drain nerfs? Something something...

ku5h

kalunte wrote: »

Good luck killing ppl with a Magnum shot spamming...

You want to be able to kill ppl spamming your hard CC???

Crucified4sin

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Ruined it, they have, and I can't fathom why.

Probably same person that thought Fighter guild trap should only immobilize (ya know, the primary function of a bear trap) for 2 seconds. We can’t have skills do anything interesting. Everything must be grey paste

Grey paste 🤣🤣🤣

MincVinyl

@Davadin I gotta save a few secrets to be able to play dizzy myself you know

Davadin

MincVinyl wrote: »

@Davadin I gotta save a few secrets to be able to play dizzy myself you know

StarOfElyon

BlackMadara wrote: »

The knockback was removed because ZoS is separating spammable/burst skills with cc. Stuns have been removed from power lash, crystal drags, etc. True stuns are now only attached to lower damage skills.

Spammable CCs made it near impossible to get off of block.

Fur_like_snow

How do you “spam” a CC after you’ve gained CC immunity?

Fawn4287

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

How do you “spam” a CC after you’ve gained CC immunity?

A CC that can be used as a spammable eg. pre patch dbreaker and masters destro with pre patch destructive reach

KingShocker

Honestly, I just hate the animation of uppercut. Who would swing a weapon upwards against gravity? as a spam too, it's just dumb. and now that it doesn't knock the target up anymore it really doesn't make any sense.

But to be fair I think a lot of the spammables in this game look dumb, like power bash. you can already shield bash, why is there a shield bash spammable too? anyways, soory for getting off topic.

Ragnarock41

KingShocker wrote: »

Honestly, I just hate the animation of uppercut. Who would swing a weapon upwards against gravity? as a spam too, it's just dumb. and now that it doesn't knock the target up anymore it really doesn't make any sense.

But to be fair I think a lot of the spammables in this game look dumb, like power bash. you can already shield bash, why is there a shield bash spammable too? anyways, soory for getting off topic.

Well if you're having that sort of problems against gravity you really shouldn't swing a weapon in the first place

StarOfElyon

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

How do you “spam” a CC after you’ve gained CC immunity?

Easy. You just keep spamming it until it hits.

Kel

Might...MIGHT...be worth it if you use a set like Truth.

https://eso-sets.com/set/armor-of-truth

However, getting pigeonholed into a set just to effectively use one move doesn't sit well.

daim

I think the best way to continue with the nerfs is to stop having shared skills in both pve and pvp.

Have the Alliance War skills work only in PVP and the rest of the skills only in PVE.

That will put an End to the Whining that this and that skill is OP. Or at least it would stop ruining the game for the rest of us.

Having the same skills in both apparently only leads to a grey poo.

Chilly-McFreeze

daim wrote: »

I think the best way to continue with the nerfs is to stop having shared skills in both pve and pvp.

Have the Alliance War skills work only in PVP and the rest of the skills only in PVE.

That will put an End to the Whining that this and that skill is OP. Or at least it would stop ruining the game for the rest of us.

Having the same skills in both apparently only leads to a grey poo.

Awesome! Just imagine it, a whole zone filled with caltrop and flare spamming zergs and nothing else!

Davadin

Kel wrote: »

Might...MIGHT...be worth it if you use a set like Truth.

https://eso-sets.com/set/armor-of-truth

However, getting pigeonholed into a set just to effectively use one move doesn't sit well.

lol...




no.


this is still one of the hardest hitting spammable in the game.

daim

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

daim wrote: »

I think the best way to continue with the nerfs is to stop having shared skills in both pve and pvp.

Have the Alliance War skills work only in PVP and the rest of the skills only in PVE.

That will put an End to the Whining that this and that skill is OP. Or at least it would stop ruining the game for the rest of us.

Having the same skills in both apparently only leads to a grey poo.

Awesome! Just imagine it, a whole zone filled with caltrop and flare spamming zergs and nothing else!

i don't see the difference to the current pvp

Kel

Davadin wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Might...MIGHT...be worth it if you use a set like Truth.

https://eso-sets.com/set/armor-of-truth

However, getting pigeonholed into a set just to effectively use one move doesn't sit well.

lol...




no.


this is still one of the hardest hitting spammable in the game.

Never said it wasn't. But hard hitting and making most use out of off balance isn't exactly the same thing.

If dizzy is still in your rotation, why wouldn't you want to squeeze as much damage out of it as possible? Not just dizzy, but everything else as well for 10 seconds.

MincVinyl

@Davadin here's a hint

https://gyazo.com/6de37454c696d14108a9d6d0fa8f6643

If only bugs didnt make this impossible to really use
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/500218/overload-perma-snare-bug-explained-tested-video-included#latest

Chilly-McFreeze

Davadin wrote: »

this is still one of the hardest hitting spammable in the game.

Well, tbf you're right but it's kinda funny that even Rapid Strikes has a higher tooltip than Dizzy now.

MincVinyl

It seems silly that dizzy does less than a lot of abilities which are brainless to use.

Rahar

MincVinyl wrote: »

It seems silly that dizzy does less than a lot of abilities which are brainless to use.

Since when did dizzy require a brain to use lol

Especially back in Scalebreaker. Everything was just automatic, and that was the problem.

MincVinyl

@Rahar

Not saying it is hard, but there is a difference in using a cast time as your main source of damage vs using something like surprise attack which is nearly instant, doesn't have two aim/range checks, doesn't leave you open, and does just as much/more damage.

Chilly-McFreeze

MincVinyl wrote: »

@Rahar

Not saying it is hard, but there is a difference in using a cast time as your main source of damage vs using something like surprise attack which is nearly instant, doesn't have two aim/range checks, doesn't leave you open, and does just as much/more damage.

Agreed but SA does a little less dmg, ~15% iIrc.

Rahar

MincVinyl wrote: »

@Rahar

Not saying it is hard, but there is a difference in using a cast time as your main source of damage vs using something like surprise attack which is nearly instant, doesn't have two aim/range checks, doesn't leave you open, and does just as much/more damage.

Any old knuckledragger could use an ability over and over again, cast time or not. Honestly, here it sounds like you're referencing a dizzy from a few patches ago, when it took 1s+ to cast. Nowadays, with the 0.8s cast time, there's a vast amount of situations where the 'exposing yourself' and range check arguments fall apart, and even a few situations where the short channel helps; e.g., I jump off a short ledge and halfway down I take a dswing backflip midair, clearly out of melee range and much to my dismay, usually due to lag or server magic, but sometimes defying all explanation. This doesn't happen with other abilities and there are plenty of instances where this has been caught on a recording, so I assume most people are aware of it. To reiterate on the point I'm trying to make here, a 0.8s cast time really isn't opening yourself up anymore compared to what it was in the past, and even then it wasn't much of an issue. The true issue was connecting and maintaining LoS, which became near irrelevant with the reduced cast time. Additionally, saying surprise attack has the same damage as a dizzy is just misinformation (outside of very niche builds running certain sets, such as innate axiom, which could swing the pendulum in one way). It's just false.

I will concede that after seeing it played this patch, although it's still super strong and worth running in every sense of the word, 2h just lacks a certain... fun. It was visceral. I think it'd be cool if we could start working synergies into weapon skill lines as a remedy to this, but with an implied cost. For example, dizzy sets off balance, but a morph of cleave could stun off-balance targets, like a heavy attack does now, just on a skill that's unique to the 2h skill line to bring that weighty feeling back. It doesn't have to be cleave, but skills bouncing off of each other to make cool combos is the kind of synergy I'd like to see more of.

What I hope we can agree on at the end of the day is that we should stay away from one skill doing everything in one cast. That was the patch-ago dswing.

Davadin

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

this is still one of the hardest hitting spammable in the game.

Well, tbf you're right but it's kinda funny that even Rapid Strikes has a higher tooltip than Dizzy now.

if every hit lands....

MincVinyl

I'm pretty sure SA got hit with the same nerf since dots were nerfed before being buffed again.
Sorry bad choice of an example I suppose, lol

Main point is that using dizzy requires more investment compared to most spammables, which is why it was always rewarding. Think about how hard your combo can get shafted by how easy it is to counter, you not only lose the damage of the dizzy but whatever time you spent setting up or waiting. Yes it is harder to react to it in lag/mosh pit fights, but at the same time it is just as bad for the caster.

MincVinyl

yeah @Rahar the faster dizzy was not the solution I would fully agree. I would much rather the fun chunking ability that felt better, even with the longer cast time.
Also I didn't look up numbers to compare dps, tooltips won't provide much info aswell especially comparing a non cast time to a cast timed ability.

MincVinyl

Also @Rahar being hit mid air is just an issue since I believe there is no second vertical check on dizzy. Ive hit plenty of people after they have fallen off towers/walls. As for the strange problems with the knockback, those are with pretty much every displacement stun.

Chilly-McFreeze

Davadin wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

this is still one of the hardest hitting spammable in the game.

Well, tbf you're right but it's kinda funny that even Rapid Strikes has a higher tooltip than Dizzy now.

if every hit lands....

If you take that approach I could argue that it's easier to deny DS any damage than it is to deny Rapids any damage since DS is all or nothing. But yes, Rapids is too clunky as well.

Davadin

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

this is still one of the hardest hitting spammable in the game.

Well, tbf you're right but it's kinda funny that even Rapid Strikes has a higher tooltip than Dizzy now.

if every hit lands....

If you take that approach I could argue that it's easier to deny DS any damage than it is to deny Rapids any damage since DS is all or nothing. But yes, Rapids is too clunky as well.

correct.

man im liking DK's new poop-fist more and more every day.