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Calling all Dragonknights

relentless_turnip
relentless_turnip
✭✭✭
Can everyone please copy and paste:

-Sustain still isn't fixed(please increase combustion or lower costs)
-DOTs are not 33% less than live(because you increased a nerfed value)

We need them to hear this before PTS goes live 21st October.

They heard us before and with every Dks help they could hear us again 👍
Edited by relentless_turnip on October 9, 2019 9:44PM
  • Spartabunny08
    Spartabunny08
    ✭✭✭
    Sustain still isn't fixed(please increase combustion or lower costs)
    -DOTs are not 33% less than live(because you increased a nerfed value)
    Oh and we need our wings returned to us please thanks. Streak, cloak, purify, and wings... Oh wait you cut our wings off DK needs wings back not some half thought out alternative. Please and thank you
    Edited by Spartabunny08 on October 10, 2019 4:09AM
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
    ✭✭✭
    Can everyone please copy and paste:

    What is this, Facebook?

    Haha 😂 yes please donate!
  • juhislihis19
    juhislihis19
    ✭✭✭
    Reduce the cost of skills, PLEASE.

    You already nerfed DOT damage, so nerfing the cost by almost 50% is not acceptable.
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
    ✭✭✭


    Please watch and continue to make noise in all DK feeds about these changes.
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
    ✭✭✭
    I actually think we need another passive or additive to an existing passive + 10% spell damage.
    This would address our overall damage loss(currently searing heat is applying to all skills in ardent flame line).

    I think combustion needs to rather be applied by every ardent flame skill or grant restoration on every tick.

    One thing is for sure if this goes live we will not be remotely competitive with any other class.
  • BattleAxe
    BattleAxe
    ✭✭✭✭
    Dragonknights unite we shall give them FIRE AND BLOOD
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
    ✭✭✭
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    Dragonknights unite we shall give them FIRE AND BLOOD

    Not if this patch goes live... we will give hugs and cuddles we can't sustain :lol:
  • BattleAxe
    BattleAxe
    ✭✭✭✭
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    Dragonknights unite we shall give them FIRE AND BLOOD

    Not if this patch goes live... we will give hugs and cuddles we can't sustain :lol:

    Basically I’m calling all dragonknight mains to arms over a lot of the dk complaints we have
    Edited by BattleAxe on October 10, 2019 9:48AM
  • SilverPaws
    SilverPaws
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    They should revert all dots back to update 22. The dots are still too weak to be used effectively also they increased cost so still big nerf.

    Stamina dk's are actually joke in pvp. They're playstyle that revolves around sustained pressure is weak even on live now and with these nerfs, the class will be buried completely...

    They need to give us some good spammable ( not stonefist ), maybe you could increase damage on deep slash, it's the weakest spammable out there.
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
    ✭✭✭
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    Dragonknights unite we shall give them FIRE AND BLOOD

    Not if this patch goes live... we will give hugs and cuddles we can't sustain :lol:

    Basically I’m calling all dragonknight mains to arms over a lot of the dk complaints we have

    Totally on board with this! They listened first time around... If everyone makes a noise it could happen.
    This is my favourite class and i'm not OK with these changes.
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
    ✭✭✭
    Lokey0024 wrote: »
    Without getting to technical or long winded you might need to post links to testing vids or discussions. Or describe scenarios in which you could receive pointers from more experienced players.



    Do the maths, have a go on the PTS it is dead unless we all speak up.

    I was as delighted as every other player when reading patch notes 5.2.2 and 5.2.3 thinking DK had been saved.

    It hasn't... very far from it, our damage has been nerfed massively and costs increased make it unsustainable.

    Combustion does very little to alleviate this and 33% decrease compared to live damage is currently no where near this.
  • BattleAxe
    BattleAxe
    ✭✭✭✭
    From the changes mentioned in 5.2.2 dks class dots should keep the tool tips that are currently on live this is with the goal of reducing dots by 33% and searing heats 33% increase
  • irstarkey57
    irstarkey57
    ✭✭✭
    They *** up dk’s Every chance they get. They had it right the one patch, whichever one where they finally buffed eruption. Lasted for two months. Wings nerfed, range on whip, embers and fossilize nerfed. Eruption nerfed. And let’s not gloss over how weird the molten whip thing is anyway. In pve you basically have to double spam either embers or flames to prod the whip. Or get this, you can use chains as a spammable! Lmao. I mean really wtf. This is where we are at, again, with DK. This is what makes people quit the game. That type of stuff. Meanwhile Templar’s run rampant cleansing everything, gap closing, healing out of control, snaring, ani-canceling ults (yea why didn’t crescent get the same treatment as onslaught/incap/dawnbreaker) etc. blah, so sick of dks getting *** on for no reason. I don’t think any of the devs main one or play one or something, who knows? I’m salty.
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
    ✭✭✭
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    From the changes mentioned in 5.2.2 dks class dots should keep the tool tips that are currently on live this is with the goal of reducing dots by 33% and searing heats 33% increase

    But they won't! do the maths or watch the video i have linked of someone playing it on PTS.

    So my current burning embers has a tooltip of 24,000 over 12 secs

    I'll remove the (live) searing heat passive first: 24000 x 0.9 = 21600

    They have nerfed it per tick so 21600 / 12 = 1800(damage per tick) 1800 x 0.4 = 720(damage per tick patch 5.2.0)

    Now let's add the buff's: 720 x 1.33 = 957.6(base damage per tick 5.2.3)
    957.6 x 1.33 = 1273.6(damage per tick after searing heat passive 5.2.3)

    Our new total damage is 1273.6 x 14 = 17830.5

    If you want the percentage difference: 24000 - 17830.5 = 6170. (6170 / 24000) x 100 = 25%

    It is 2 seconds longer as well. The percentage difference between ticks is: 1800 - 1273.6 = 526.4
    (526.4 / 1800) x 100 = 29%

    In terms of DPS or burst that is significant and we now have to use these skills it will cost us 50% more in magicka.

    That is insane!!!

    (edited it where i *** up the maths)



    Edited by relentless_turnip on October 10, 2019 12:58PM
  • BattleAxe
    BattleAxe
    ✭✭✭✭
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    From the changes mentioned in 5.2.2 dks class dots should keep the tool tips that are currently on live this is with the goal of reducing dots by 33% and searing heats 33% increase

    but they won't do the maths or watch the video i have linked of someone playing it on PTS.

    So my current burning embers has a tooltip of 24,000 over 12 secs

    i'll remove the (live) searing heat passive first: 24000 x 0.9 = 21600

    The have nerfed it per tick so 21600 / 12 = 1800(damage per tick) 1800 x 0.4 = 720(damage per tick patch 5.2.0)

    Now let's add the buff's: 720 x 1.33 = 957.6(base damage per tick 5.2.3)
    957.6 x 1.33 = 1273.6(damage per tick after searing heat passive 5.2.3)

    Our new total damage is 1273.6 x 14 = 17830.5

    If you want the percentage difference: 24000 - 17830.5 = 6170. (6170 / 24000) x 100 = 25%

    It is 2 seconds longer as well. The percentage difference between ticks is: (1273.6 / 1800) x 100 70%!!!

    In terms of DPS or burst that is significant and we now have to use these skills it will cost us 50% more in magicka.

    That is insane!!!




    2 solutions devs have for dks leave their dots as they are or give the pts numbers and either buff how much combustion returns or have it apply every tick of the status effect
  • kathandira
    kathandira
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    -Sustain still isn't fixed(please increase combustion or lower costs)
    -DOTs are not 33% less than live(because you increased a nerfed value)

    Please help the Dragon Knights!
    PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
    ✭✭✭
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    From the changes mentioned in 5.2.2 dks class dots should keep the tool tips that are currently on live this is with the goal of reducing dots by 33% and searing heats 33% increase

    but they won't do the maths or watch the video i have linked of someone playing it on PTS.

    So my current burning embers has a tooltip of 24,000 over 12 secs

    i'll remove the (live) searing heat passive first: 24000 x 0.9 = 21600

    The have nerfed it per tick so 21600 / 12 = 1800(damage per tick) 1800 x 0.4 = 720(damage per tick patch 5.2.0)

    Now let's add the buff's: 720 x 1.33 = 957.6(base damage per tick 5.2.3)
    957.6 x 1.33 = 1273.6(damage per tick after searing heat passive 5.2.3)

    Our new total damage is 1273.6 x 14 = 17830.5

    If you want the percentage difference: 24000 - 17830.5 = 6170. (6170 / 24000) x 100 = 25%

    It is 2 seconds longer as well. The percentage difference between ticks is: (1273.6 / 1800) x 100 70%!!!

    In terms of DPS or burst that is significant and we now have to use these skills it will cost us 50% more in magicka.

    That is insane!!!




    2 solutions devs have for dks leave their dots as they are or give the pts numbers and either buff how much combustion returns or have it apply every tick of the status effect

    I agree with you there... I also feel 10% passive increase to spell damage would be justified considering how much we are losing and it is the majority of our damage from dots. Then we would any have lost 15 - 20% damage. There are a lot of classes that don't need to run DOT's but did during the last patch because they were so powerful.

    We need them and don't want to lose them at the cost of our class identity.
  • BattleAxe
    BattleAxe
    ✭✭✭✭
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    From the changes mentioned in 5.2.2 dks class dots should keep the tool tips that are currently on live this is with the goal of reducing dots by 33% and searing heats 33% increase

    but they won't do the maths or watch the video i have linked of someone playing it on PTS.

    So my current burning embers has a tooltip of 24,000 over 12 secs

    i'll remove the (live) searing heat passive first: 24000 x 0.9 = 21600

    The have nerfed it per tick so 21600 / 12 = 1800(damage per tick) 1800 x 0.4 = 720(damage per tick patch 5.2.0)

    Now let's add the buff's: 720 x 1.33 = 957.6(base damage per tick 5.2.3)
    957.6 x 1.33 = 1273.6(damage per tick after searing heat passive 5.2.3)

    Our new total damage is 1273.6 x 14 = 17830.5

    If you want the percentage difference: 24000 - 17830.5 = 6170. (6170 / 24000) x 100 = 25%

    It is 2 seconds longer as well. The percentage difference between ticks is: (1273.6 / 1800) x 100 70%!!!

    In terms of DPS or burst that is significant and we now have to use these skills it will cost us 50% more in magicka.

    That is insane!!!




    2 solutions devs have for dks leave their dots as they are or give the pts numbers and either buff how much combustion returns or have it apply every tick of the status effect

    I agree with you there... I also feel 10% passive increase to spell damage would be justified considering how much we are losing and it is the majority of our damage from dots. Then we would any have lost 15 - 20% damage. There are a lot of classes that don't need to run DOT's but did during the last patch because they were so powerful.

    We need them and don't want to lose them at the cost of our class identity.

    Dots were never the problem devs never made alternatives for more burst focused classes on top of not reducing cost of the biggest counter to dots as in purge the original vigor changes in scalebreaker were a stam classes counter to dots but thanks to people who intentionally built for the highest possible tool tip the stam dot counter was nerfed to the point it was no longer a dot counter
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    Dragonknights unite we shall give them FIRE AND BLOOD

    @DKsUnite it's a call for you
    ZoS did it. I'm pretty furious and I want to burn this to ashes... Flame and Fury, DK identity...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    When it comes to crap, big-time, major league crap, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, ZoS. No contest. No contest. ZoS. ZoS easily has the greatest crap story ever told. Think about it: ZoS has actually convinced people, that there's a balance patch, coming next chapter, which will make you do everything you want do, at any hour, every day. And this balance patch has a special list of things it wants you to do. And if you don't do any of these things, it has a special place, full of lag and zergs and bleeds and procs and nerfs, where he will send you to die and suffer and respec and die and give AP and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

    But it loves you. It loves you, and it has lag! It always has lag! It's all-fun, all-perfect, all-lore, and all-challenging, somehow just can't handle lag! ZoS takes in millions of dollars, they pay no high-end servers, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good crap story. Holy Proc!
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Honestly, I'm going to do exactly what @Minno did when templars were nerfed: play Oblivion until Dks are buffed again. In fact, i'm planning a build around a spell that cast frenzy (or control) on touch and invisibility on self. Touch and go xD

    Trying to convince ZoS about the status of the class at this point in futile
    ZoS did it. I'm pretty furious and I want to burn this to ashes... Flame and Fury, DK identity...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    When it comes to crap, big-time, major league crap, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, ZoS. No contest. No contest. ZoS. ZoS easily has the greatest crap story ever told. Think about it: ZoS has actually convinced people, that there's a balance patch, coming next chapter, which will make you do everything you want do, at any hour, every day. And this balance patch has a special list of things it wants you to do. And if you don't do any of these things, it has a special place, full of lag and zergs and bleeds and procs and nerfs, where he will send you to die and suffer and respec and die and give AP and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

    But it loves you. It loves you, and it has lag! It always has lag! It's all-fun, all-perfect, all-lore, and all-challenging, somehow just can't handle lag! ZoS takes in millions of dollars, they pay no high-end servers, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good crap story. Holy Proc!
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
    ✭✭✭
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    From the changes mentioned in 5.2.2 dks class dots should keep the tool tips that are currently on live this is with the goal of reducing dots by 33% and searing heats 33% increase

    but they won't do the maths or watch the video i have linked of someone playing it on PTS.

    So my current burning embers has a tooltip of 24,000 over 12 secs

    i'll remove the (live) searing heat passive first: 24000 x 0.9 = 21600

    The have nerfed it per tick so 21600 / 12 = 1800(damage per tick) 1800 x 0.4 = 720(damage per tick patch 5.2.0)

    Now let's add the buff's: 720 x 1.33 = 957.6(base damage per tick 5.2.3)
    957.6 x 1.33 = 1273.6(damage per tick after searing heat passive 5.2.3)

    Our new total damage is 1273.6 x 14 = 17830.5

    If you want the percentage difference: 24000 - 17830.5 = 6170. (6170 / 24000) x 100 = 25%

    It is 2 seconds longer as well. The percentage difference between ticks is: (1273.6 / 1800) x 100 70%!!!

    In terms of DPS or burst that is significant and we now have to use these skills it will cost us 50% more in magicka.

    That is insane!!!




    2 solutions devs have for dks leave their dots as they are or give the pts numbers and either buff how much combustion returns or have it apply every tick of the status effect

    I agree with you there... I also feel 10% passive increase to spell damage would be justified considering how much we are losing and it is the majority of our damage from dots. Then we would any have lost 15 - 20% damage. There are a lot of classes that don't need to run DOT's but did during the last patch because they were so powerful.

    We need them and don't want to lose them at the cost of our class identity.

    Dots were never the problem devs never made alternatives for more burst focused classes on top of not reducing cost of the biggest counter to dots as in purge the original vigor changes in scalebreaker were a stam classes counter to dots but thanks to people who intentionally built for the highest possible tool tip the stam dot counter was nerfed to the point it was no longer a dot counter

    I think all they needed to do was add to 'battle spirit' a debuff that stops multiple DOT's being put on you. i.e. 1 x entropy, 1 x soul trap and then they wouldn't have been an issue for anyone. There would have been no changes to DPS...

    I am happy for DOT's to be nerfed as long as DK's aren't useless going into Dragonhold.
  • DreadDaedroth
    DreadDaedroth
    ✭✭✭
    #BringBackReflectivePlate
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
    ✭✭✭
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Honestly, I'm going to do exactly what @Minno did when templars were nerfed: play Oblivion until Dks are buffed again. In fact, i'm planning a build around a spell that cast frenzy (or control) on touch and invisibility on self. Touch and go xD

    Trying to convince ZoS about the status of the class at this point in futile

    Sounds like a plan :lol:

    I may play another class until they are sorted... Of course i'll give it a go, but at the moment it looks pretty heartbreaking.
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    From the changes mentioned in 5.2.2 dks class dots should keep the tool tips that are currently on live this is with the goal of reducing dots by 33% and searing heats 33% increase

    but they won't do the maths or watch the video i have linked of someone playing it on PTS.

    So my current burning embers has a tooltip of 24,000 over 12 secs

    i'll remove the (live) searing heat passive first: 24000 x 0.9 = 21600

    The have nerfed it per tick so 21600 / 12 = 1800(damage per tick) 1800 x 0.4 = 720(damage per tick patch 5.2.0)

    Now let's add the buff's: 720 x 1.33 = 957.6(base damage per tick 5.2.3)
    957.6 x 1.33 = 1273.6(damage per tick after searing heat passive 5.2.3)

    Our new total damage is 1273.6 x 14 = 17830.5

    If you want the percentage difference: 24000 - 17830.5 = 6170. (6170 / 24000) x 100 = 25%

    It is 2 seconds longer as well. The percentage difference between ticks is: (1273.6 / 1800) x 100 70%!!!

    In terms of DPS or burst that is significant and we now have to use these skills it will cost us 50% more in magicka.

    That is insane!!!




    2 solutions devs have for dks leave their dots as they are or give the pts numbers and either buff how much combustion returns or have it apply every tick of the status effect

    I agree with you there... I also feel 10% passive increase to spell damage would be justified considering how much we are losing and it is the majority of our damage from dots. Then we would any have lost 15 - 20% damage. There are a lot of classes that don't need to run DOT's but did during the last patch because they were so powerful.

    We need them and don't want to lose them at the cost of our class identity.

    Dots were never the problem devs never made alternatives for more burst focused classes on top of not reducing cost of the biggest counter to dots as in purge the original vigor changes in scalebreaker were a stam classes counter to dots but thanks to people who intentionally built for the highest possible tool tip the stam dot counter was nerfed to the point it was no longer a dot counter

    I think all they needed to do was add to 'battle spirit' a debuff that stops multiple DOT's being put on you. i.e. 1 x entropy, 1 x soul trap and then they wouldn't have been an issue for anyone. There would have been no changes to DPS...

    I am happy for DOT's to be nerfed as long as DK's aren't useless going into Dragonhold.

    Doing something like that introduces a ton of issues for any DoT's with secondary mechanics tied to the DoT being on the target, such as Embers.

    If I try to put Embers on a target, but they already have it on them, how would that work? Would I have wasted my resources, would it not take the resources to begin with but force me to waste a GCD, would it deny me a heal?

    If it overwrites, what happens if I already have my Embers on a target, and someone puts their's on? Does mine end, giving me the heal prematurely when I didn't need it? Does my heal carry on from the other dude's, scaling super high?

    Same with Engulfing and the flame damage debuff, what happens when someone with lower max mag and spell damage comes along and tags my target with their Engulfing, since it now scales with stats? Same with Poison Inject and the master bow, how would that work? Same with Degen and the sustain.

    Removing DoT stacking sounds like a good idea on paper, but it introduces a ton of issues that would require a redesign of how existing skills/mechanics work to address. They'd need to separate the DoT from the mechanic, and only allow the mechanic to stack, but knowing Zenimax, they'd *** that up somehow. Would just rather not face that possibility right now.
    @jcm2606 | PC NA | CP 1000+ | Stormproof | Boethia's Scythe
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
    ✭✭✭
    #BringBackReflectivePlate

    haha, I would be happy with viable :smiley: for now...

    Reflective plate on the next patch :wink:
  • relentless_turnip
    relentless_turnip
    ✭✭✭
    jcm2606 wrote: »
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    BattleAxe wrote: »
    From the changes mentioned in 5.2.2 dks class dots should keep the tool tips that are currently on live this is with the goal of reducing dots by 33% and searing heats 33% increase

    but they won't do the maths or watch the video i have linked of someone playing it on PTS.

    So my current burning embers has a tooltip of 24,000 over 12 secs

    i'll remove the (live) searing heat passive first: 24000 x 0.9 = 21600

    The have nerfed it per tick so 21600 / 12 = 1800(damage per tick) 1800 x 0.4 = 720(damage per tick patch 5.2.0)

    Now let's add the buff's: 720 x 1.33 = 957.6(base damage per tick 5.2.3)
    957.6 x 1.33 = 1273.6(damage per tick after searing heat passive 5.2.3)

    Our new total damage is 1273.6 x 14 = 17830.5

    If you want the percentage difference: 24000 - 17830.5 = 6170. (6170 / 24000) x 100 = 25%

    It is 2 seconds longer as well. The percentage difference between ticks is: (1273.6 / 1800) x 100 70%!!!

    In terms of DPS or burst that is significant and we now have to use these skills it will cost us 50% more in magicka.

    That is insane!!!




    2 solutions devs have for dks leave their dots as they are or give the pts numbers and either buff how much combustion returns or have it apply every tick of the status effect

    I agree with you there... I also feel 10% passive increase to spell damage would be justified considering how much we are losing and it is the majority of our damage from dots. Then we would any have lost 15 - 20% damage. There are a lot of classes that don't need to run DOT's but did during the last patch because they were so powerful.

    We need them and don't want to lose them at the cost of our class identity.

    Dots were never the problem devs never made alternatives for more burst focused classes on top of not reducing cost of the biggest counter to dots as in purge the original vigor changes in scalebreaker were a stam classes counter to dots but thanks to people who intentionally built for the highest possible tool tip the stam dot counter was nerfed to the point it was no longer a dot counter

    I think all they needed to do was add to 'battle spirit' a debuff that stops multiple DOT's being put on you. i.e. 1 x entropy, 1 x soul trap and then they wouldn't have been an issue for anyone. There would have been no changes to DPS...

    I am happy for DOT's to be nerfed as long as DK's aren't useless going into Dragonhold.

    Doing something like that introduces a ton of issues for any DoT's with secondary mechanics tied to the DoT being on the target, such as Embers.

    If I try to put Embers on a target, but they already have it on them, how would that work? Would I have wasted my resources, would it not take the resources to begin with but force me to waste a GCD, would it deny me a heal?

    If it overwrites, what happens if I already have my Embers on a target, and someone puts their's on? Does mine end, giving me the heal prematurely when I didn't need it? Does my heal carry on from the other dude's, scaling super high?

    Same with Engulfing and the flame damage debuff, what happens when someone with lower max mag and spell damage comes along and tags my target with their Engulfing, since it now scales with stats? Same with Poison Inject and the master bow, how would that work? Same with Degen and the sustain.

    Removing DoT stacking sounds like a good idea on paper, but it introduces a ton of issues that would require a redesign of how existing skills/mechanics work to address. They'd need to separate the DoT from the mechanic, and only allow the mechanic to stack, but knowing Zenimax, they'd *** that up somehow. Would just rather not face that possibility right now.

    It is a great counter point you made there :smile:

    I have never heard that argument and i would rather they tweaked stats than add more bugs to the game.

    Thanks for this.
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