Dawnbreaker is now dead to me.

Demra

Vapirko wrote: »

People complained, ZOS listened. I don’t think the devs came up with this idea. People cried that ults like DBoS were too strong and everyone used it and all the damage was unavoidable. Now we have this. In this case hate the player not the game.

People complaining dbos is strong (which could've been a valid complain) does not mean ppl were asking for cast time to the skill. I never saw anybody mentioning ults need cast time. It is the devs and not the players.

By this logic ppl should stop any sort of complain about anything (even when something s broken) cuz the devs might listen and use their dev logic to "solve" the problem.

Actually, now that i think about, to at least preserve what we have maybe we should all stop complaining and quit the forum.

Artorias24

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

I slot DB on my stam main.

DB were being used as all too often as near spammables without counter. Run around a rock, every third circle spam DB. Run around a tower, every 3rd lap spam DB. And that is fine. In PVP this is popular play style. Don't get it, but you be you.

The other situation was sort of jumping, rolling, running into a group slamming a DB and then out.

Fluid is just a word for I want my high damage Ulti to be like a spammable. Why should it?

Every play option deserves and must have a counter play option. Especially damage oriented Ultis. Your DB is actually not a god given right. (Well ...)

Players should be able to interrupt, dodge away, get the block up, or whatever ...

Happens to me as well. It is not as easy to get that DB off in the middle of a crowd. It is harder to work it, time it, set it up. And that is exactly as it should be. I think ZOS got this right on this one.

Nothing has changed how frequently you can use dawnbreaker. Also running in a group, drop DB and jump out is still possible. Nothing changed.

Cast time has also nothing to do with wanting an ult be a spammable. Its just clunky to use when you can cancel every other skill in this game.

Players trained Animation cancel for years. Learned to cancel, barswap cancel, dodge cancel, block cancel. And putting then a cast time on ults interrupts the whole fluid of combat that is spread over your whole Rotation. That change is just bad for the fast and fluid combat that keeps to many players in ESO. The more they take the skill out of it, the more it full push endgame players away.

Or maybe devs get their chars clapped so hard in cyro they starting to nerf everything that makes good players stand out from the normal ones....

Fur_like_snow

Cast times look bad and feel bad. It’s why so many switched over to other offensive ultimates. Zeni doesn’t play their own game and the bad players QQ on the forums till the devs ruin another playstyle. But what can you do besides not give them anymore money.

heng14rwb17_ESO

GO DB OR GO CRY !

Davadin

KingExecration wrote: »

Szende wrote: »

Cast time makes ultis separated from spammables and other skills so its makes sense. Problem the lag. Somehow since cast time added i hit rolly opponenst easier with ult

Spammables have cast times too.... Ultimates should feel unique and not a burden to cast. They should feel fluid by adding to combat and not getting bogged down in lag. Cast times have a place but not watering down combos people “can’t” defend against. Those players are probably still getting bopped by the same combos anyways. Why not buff the cast time ults by a large portion to make us feel rewarded for “skillful play.”

Why is offensive ults the only one with cast times? Defensive ults are incredibly powerful yet unscathed by such an abomination.

meh. kinda disagree.

ulti should feel "OK EVERYBODY STOP... look at me..." feeling a bit. cast time makes sense to me. ultimate shouldn't be just another skill in a combo, just my personal opinion.

and like others has said, i haven't experienced any missfire DB since they added cast times.




so it's a lag issue. hopefully they fix the lag soon (performance improvements ongoing until next year) then they can remove the cast time. it literally is the only reason it's added in the game.

Davadin

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

I slot DB on my stam main.

DB were being used as all too often as near spammables without counter. Run around a rock, every third circle spam DB. Run around a tower, every 3rd lap spam DB. And that is fine. In PVP this is popular play style. Don't get it, but you be you.

The other situation was sort of jumping, rolling, running into a group slamming a DB and then out.

Fluid is just a word for I want my high damage Ulti to be like a spammable. Why should it?

Every play option deserves and must have a counter play option. Especially damage oriented Ultis. Your DB is actually not a god given right. (Well ...)

Players should be able to interrupt, dodge away, get the block up, or whatever ...

Happens to me as well. It is not as easy to get that DB off in the middle of a crowd. It is harder to work it, time it, set it up. And that is exactly as it should be. I think ZOS got this right on this one.

agree.

maybe i play too much Final Fantasy growing up when I summon those big giant monster then it went to cutscene and I went "wooooah.... so ultimate... much awesome"

Qbiken

Fluid is just a word for I want my high damage Ulti to be like a spammable. Why should it?

If the problem with an ultimate is that it can be used too frequently, wouldn´t it be more justified to adjust the cost of given ultimate rather than adding a cast time?

Davadin

Artorias24 wrote: »

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

I slot DB on my stam main.

DB were being used as all too often as near spammables without counter. Run around a rock, every third circle spam DB. Run around a tower, every 3rd lap spam DB. And that is fine. In PVP this is popular play style. Don't get it, but you be you.

The other situation was sort of jumping, rolling, running into a group slamming a DB and then out.

Fluid is just a word for I want my high damage Ulti to be like a spammable. Why should it?

Every play option deserves and must have a counter play option. Especially damage oriented Ultis. Your DB is actually not a god given right. (Well ...)

Players should be able to interrupt, dodge away, get the block up, or whatever ...

Happens to me as well. It is not as easy to get that DB off in the middle of a crowd. It is harder to work it, time it, set it up. And that is exactly as it should be. I think ZOS got this right on this one.

Nothing has changed how frequently you can use dawnbreaker. Also running in a group, drop DB and jump out is still possible. Nothing changed.

Cast time has also nothing to do with wanting an ult be a spammable. Its just clunky to use when you can cancel every other skill in this game.

wrong. the whole idea from the dev and the whole complaint from the forum is exactly this: cast time makes it clunky in my rotation = i can't treat it as a spammable in my combo.

Players trained Animation cancel for years. Learned to cancel, barswap cancel, dodge cancel, block cancel. And putting then a cast time on ults interrupts the whole fluid of combat that is spread over your whole Rotation. That change is just bad for the fast and fluid combat that keeps to many players in ESO.

[removed baiting comment]

KingExecration

Davadin wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

I slot DB on my stam main.

DB were being used as all too often as near spammables without counter. Run around a rock, every third circle spam DB. Run around a tower, every 3rd lap spam DB. And that is fine. In PVP this is popular play style. Don't get it, but you be you.

The other situation was sort of jumping, rolling, running into a group slamming a DB and then out.

Fluid is just a word for I want my high damage Ulti to be like a spammable. Why should it?

Every play option deserves and must have a counter play option. Especially damage oriented Ultis. Your DB is actually not a god given right. (Well ...)

Players should be able to interrupt, dodge away, get the block up, or whatever ...

Happens to me as well. It is not as easy to get that DB off in the middle of a crowd. It is harder to work it, time it, set it up. And that is exactly as it should be. I think ZOS got this right on this one.

Nothing has changed how frequently you can use dawnbreaker. Also running in a group, drop DB and jump out is still possible. Nothing changed.

Cast time has also nothing to do with wanting an ult be a spammable. Its just clunky to use when you can cancel every other skill in this game.

wrong. the whole idea from the dev and the whole complaint from the forum is exactly this: cast time makes it clunky in my rotation = i can't treat it as a spammable in my combo.

Players trained Animation cancel for years. Learned to cancel, barswap cancel, dodge cancel, block cancel. And putting then a cast time on ults interrupts the whole fluid of combat that is spread over your whole Rotation. That change is just bad for the fast and fluid combat that keeps to many players in ESO.

[removed baiting comment]

Based on your statement then all offensive ults need a cast time. Many times on magplar wearing blood pawn spear ult feels like a spammable. Why? Because I get it quick and it’s part of my rotation sealing the kill. So by that sense it fits the term you consider “spammable” the ults with a cast time can keep it sure. But if they are add uniqueness for landing it by increasing damage or adding effects to ults with it applied. Stam and mag dk leap both out do my stam sorc with dawny.

Make everybody happy and give every class a decent stam ult already. Same argument with dizzy. We don’t have any good options.

Davadin

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Cast times look bad and feel bad. It’s why so many switched over to other offensive ultimates. Zeni doesn’t play their own game and the bad players QQ on the forums till the devs ruin another playstyle. But what can you do besides not give them anymore money.

KingExecration wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

I slot DB on my stam main.

DB were being used as all too often as near spammables without counter. Run around a rock, every third circle spam DB. Run around a tower, every 3rd lap spam DB. And that is fine. In PVP this is popular play style. Don't get it, but you be you.

The other situation was sort of jumping, rolling, running into a group slamming a DB and then out.

Fluid is just a word for I want my high damage Ulti to be like a spammable. Why should it?

Every play option deserves and must have a counter play option. Especially damage oriented Ultis. Your DB is actually not a god given right. (Well ...)

Players should be able to interrupt, dodge away, get the block up, or whatever ...

Happens to me as well. It is not as easy to get that DB off in the middle of a crowd. It is harder to work it, time it, set it up. And that is exactly as it should be. I think ZOS got this right on this one.

Nothing has changed how frequently you can use dawnbreaker. Also running in a group, drop DB and jump out is still possible. Nothing changed.

Cast time has also nothing to do with wanting an ult be a spammable. Its just clunky to use when you can cancel every other skill in this game.

wrong. the whole idea from the dev and the whole complaint from the forum is exactly this: cast time makes it clunky in my rotation = i can't treat it as a spammable in my combo.

Players trained Animation cancel for years. Learned to cancel, barswap cancel, dodge cancel, block cancel. And putting then a cast time on ults interrupts the whole fluid of combat that is spread over your whole Rotation. That change is just bad for the fast and fluid combat that keeps to many players in ESO.

[removed baiting comment]

Based on your statement then all offensive ults need a cast time. Many times on magplar wearing blood pawn spear ult feels like a spammable. Why? Because I get it quick and it’s part of my rotation sealing the kill. So by that sense it fits the term you consider “spammable” the ults with a cast time can keep it sure. But if they are add uniqueness for landing it by increasing damage or adding effects to ults with it applied. Stam and mag dk leap both out do my stam sorc with dawny.

Make everybody happy and give every class a decent stam ult already. Same argument with dizzy. We don’t have any good options.

absolutely. all ultimate should have a cast time.

but for DK leap, well, that's got re-named into "flying time". i guarantee you, very easy to spot, can't be cancelled, and affected by lag all the same.

and sure, lets talk about increasing the damage/effectiveness of ultimates. not making them spammables.


ps: what's a stam ult? there's only ultimates. it even has its own resource, called ultimate points. it doesn use stam or mag. as a stam class, there's plenty of good ultimates to choose. Even the DW ulti is pretty decent now. (can still use a buff tho, it's a farcry from Onslaught or DB)

KingExecration

Davadin wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Cast times look bad and feel bad. It’s why so many switched over to other offensive ultimates. Zeni doesn’t play their own game and the bad players QQ on the forums till the devs ruin another playstyle. But what can you do besides not give them anymore money.

KingExecration wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

I slot DB on my stam main.

DB were being used as all too often as near spammables without counter. Run around a rock, every third circle spam DB. Run around a tower, every 3rd lap spam DB. And that is fine. In PVP this is popular play style. Don't get it, but you be you.

The other situation was sort of jumping, rolling, running into a group slamming a DB and then out.

Fluid is just a word for I want my high damage Ulti to be like a spammable. Why should it?

Every play option deserves and must have a counter play option. Especially damage oriented Ultis. Your DB is actually not a god given right. (Well ...)

Players should be able to interrupt, dodge away, get the block up, or whatever ...

Happens to me as well. It is not as easy to get that DB off in the middle of a crowd. It is harder to work it, time it, set it up. And that is exactly as it should be. I think ZOS got this right on this one.

Nothing has changed how frequently you can use dawnbreaker. Also running in a group, drop DB and jump out is still possible. Nothing changed.

Cast time has also nothing to do with wanting an ult be a spammable. Its just clunky to use when you can cancel every other skill in this game.

wrong. the whole idea from the dev and the whole complaint from the forum is exactly this: cast time makes it clunky in my rotation = i can't treat it as a spammable in my combo.

Players trained Animation cancel for years. Learned to cancel, barswap cancel, dodge cancel, block cancel. And putting then a cast time on ults interrupts the whole fluid of combat that is spread over your whole Rotation. That change is just bad for the fast and fluid combat that keeps to many players in ESO.

[removed baiting comment]

Based on your statement then all offensive ults need a cast time. Many times on magplar wearing blood pawn spear ult feels like a spammable. Why? Because I get it quick and it’s part of my rotation sealing the kill. So by that sense it fits the term you consider “spammable” the ults with a cast time can keep it sure. But if they are add uniqueness for landing it by increasing damage or adding effects to ults with it applied. Stam and mag dk leap both out do my stam sorc with dawny.

Make everybody happy and give every class a decent stam ult already. Same argument with dizzy. We don’t have any good options.

absolutely. all ultimate should have a cast time.

but for DK leap, well, that's got re-named into "flying time". i guarantee you, very easy to spot, can't be cancelled, and affected by lag all the same.

and sure, lets talk about increasing the damage/effectiveness of ultimates. not making them spammables.


ps: what's a stam ult? there's only ultimates. it even has its own resource, called ultimate points. it doesn use stam or mag. as a stam class, there's plenty of good ultimates to choose. Even the DW ulti is pretty decent now. (can still use a buff tho, it's a farcry from Onslaught or DB)

The penetration changes everything. Sure meteor has a 20k tooltip on my stam build but will hit like I threw napkin at you. Reason being I have zero pen and champion points aren’t buffing it.
If it were up to me it’d be separate entirely. Ultimates would just be ultimate damage and scale according. Add it’s own cp star and everything.
I’m astonished you think all ults do the same. Try ferocious leap on your stam dk and use take flight on your mag. Then get back at me that they’re the same. There’s a reason mag dks use ferocious. It fits into their pen and damage type.

Davadin

KingExecration wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Cast times look bad and feel bad. It’s why so many switched over to other offensive ultimates. Zeni doesn’t play their own game and the bad players QQ on the forums till the devs ruin another playstyle. But what can you do besides not give them anymore money.

KingExecration wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

I slot DB on my stam main.

DB were being used as all too often as near spammables without counter. Run around a rock, every third circle spam DB. Run around a tower, every 3rd lap spam DB. And that is fine. In PVP this is popular play style. Don't get it, but you be you.

The other situation was sort of jumping, rolling, running into a group slamming a DB and then out.

Fluid is just a word for I want my high damage Ulti to be like a spammable. Why should it?

Every play option deserves and must have a counter play option. Especially damage oriented Ultis. Your DB is actually not a god given right. (Well ...)

Players should be able to interrupt, dodge away, get the block up, or whatever ...

Happens to me as well. It is not as easy to get that DB off in the middle of a crowd. It is harder to work it, time it, set it up. And that is exactly as it should be. I think ZOS got this right on this one.

Nothing has changed how frequently you can use dawnbreaker. Also running in a group, drop DB and jump out is still possible. Nothing changed.

Cast time has also nothing to do with wanting an ult be a spammable. Its just clunky to use when you can cancel every other skill in this game.

wrong. the whole idea from the dev and the whole complaint from the forum is exactly this: cast time makes it clunky in my rotation = i can't treat it as a spammable in my combo.

Players trained Animation cancel for years. Learned to cancel, barswap cancel, dodge cancel, block cancel. And putting then a cast time on ults interrupts the whole fluid of combat that is spread over your whole Rotation. That change is just bad for the fast and fluid combat that keeps to many players in ESO.

[removed baiting comment]

Based on your statement then all offensive ults need a cast time. Many times on magplar wearing blood pawn spear ult feels like a spammable. Why? Because I get it quick and it’s part of my rotation sealing the kill. So by that sense it fits the term you consider “spammable” the ults with a cast time can keep it sure. But if they are add uniqueness for landing it by increasing damage or adding effects to ults with it applied. Stam and mag dk leap both out do my stam sorc with dawny.

Make everybody happy and give every class a decent stam ult already. Same argument with dizzy. We don’t have any good options.

absolutely. all ultimate should have a cast time.

but for DK leap, well, that's got re-named into "flying time". i guarantee you, very easy to spot, can't be cancelled, and affected by lag all the same.

and sure, lets talk about increasing the damage/effectiveness of ultimates. not making them spammables.


ps: what's a stam ult? there's only ultimates. it even has its own resource, called ultimate points. it doesn use stam or mag. as a stam class, there's plenty of good ultimates to choose. Even the DW ulti is pretty decent now. (can still use a buff tho, it's a farcry from Onslaught or DB)

The penetration changes everything. Sure meteor has a 20k tooltip on my stam build but will hit like I threw napkin at you. Reason being I have zero pen and champion points aren’t buffing it.
If it were up to me it’d be separate entirely. Ultimates would just be ultimate damage and scale according. Add it’s own cp star and everything.
I’m astonished you think all ults do the same. Try ferocious leap on your stam dk and use take flight on your mag. Then get back at me that they’re the same. There’s a reason mag dks use ferocious. It fits into their pen and damage type.

my bad.

yes, ultimate morphs can sometime fits the build. my bad. you are right. (but not all. like, weapon skills ultimate morphs are specific to a stam or build depending on weapon type)


so yes on both points, i agree stam-morph can have better options, and definitely Meteor can use a buff and have their own CP point. It's unfair that Take Flight buffed by CP, but Meteor doesn't?

KingExecration

Davadin wrote: »

KingExecration wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Cast times look bad and feel bad. It’s why so many switched over to other offensive ultimates. Zeni doesn’t play their own game and the bad players QQ on the forums till the devs ruin another playstyle. But what can you do besides not give them anymore money.

KingExecration wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

I slot DB on my stam main.

DB were being used as all too often as near spammables without counter. Run around a rock, every third circle spam DB. Run around a tower, every 3rd lap spam DB. And that is fine. In PVP this is popular play style. Don't get it, but you be you.

The other situation was sort of jumping, rolling, running into a group slamming a DB and then out.

Fluid is just a word for I want my high damage Ulti to be like a spammable. Why should it?

Every play option deserves and must have a counter play option. Especially damage oriented Ultis. Your DB is actually not a god given right. (Well ...)

Players should be able to interrupt, dodge away, get the block up, or whatever ...

Happens to me as well. It is not as easy to get that DB off in the middle of a crowd. It is harder to work it, time it, set it up. And that is exactly as it should be. I think ZOS got this right on this one.

Nothing has changed how frequently you can use dawnbreaker. Also running in a group, drop DB and jump out is still possible. Nothing changed.

Cast time has also nothing to do with wanting an ult be a spammable. Its just clunky to use when you can cancel every other skill in this game.

wrong. the whole idea from the dev and the whole complaint from the forum is exactly this: cast time makes it clunky in my rotation = i can't treat it as a spammable in my combo.

Players trained Animation cancel for years. Learned to cancel, barswap cancel, dodge cancel, block cancel. And putting then a cast time on ults interrupts the whole fluid of combat that is spread over your whole Rotation. That change is just bad for the fast and fluid combat that keeps to many players in ESO.

[removed baiting comment]

Based on your statement then all offensive ults need a cast time. Many times on magplar wearing blood pawn spear ult feels like a spammable. Why? Because I get it quick and it’s part of my rotation sealing the kill. So by that sense it fits the term you consider “spammable” the ults with a cast time can keep it sure. But if they are add uniqueness for landing it by increasing damage or adding effects to ults with it applied. Stam and mag dk leap both out do my stam sorc with dawny.

Make everybody happy and give every class a decent stam ult already. Same argument with dizzy. We don’t have any good options.

absolutely. all ultimate should have a cast time.

but for DK leap, well, that's got re-named into "flying time". i guarantee you, very easy to spot, can't be cancelled, and affected by lag all the same.

and sure, lets talk about increasing the damage/effectiveness of ultimates. not making them spammables.


ps: what's a stam ult? there's only ultimates. it even has its own resource, called ultimate points. it doesn use stam or mag. as a stam class, there's plenty of good ultimates to choose. Even the DW ulti is pretty decent now. (can still use a buff tho, it's a farcry from Onslaught or DB)

The penetration changes everything. Sure meteor has a 20k tooltip on my stam build but will hit like I threw napkin at you. Reason being I have zero pen and champion points aren’t buffing it.
If it were up to me it’d be separate entirely. Ultimates would just be ultimate damage and scale according. Add it’s own cp star and everything.
I’m astonished you think all ults do the same. Try ferocious leap on your stam dk and use take flight on your mag. Then get back at me that they’re the same. There’s a reason mag dks use ferocious. It fits into their pen and damage type.

my bad.

yes, ultimate morphs can sometime fits the build. my bad. you are right. (but not all. like, weapon skills ultimate morphs are specific to a stam or build depending on weapon type)


so yes on both points, i agree stam-morph can have better options, and definitely Meteor can use a buff and have their own CP point. It's unfair that Take Flight buffed by CP, but Meteor doesn't?

They’re very different damage types. Mag builds have cp buffing magic, flame, shock, and ice in their constellations. Stam have physical, poison, and disease getting buffed by their side.
For example stam dk use take flight since it’s physical damage pulling from their trees. Magic use fire because engulfing flames buffs it along with their cp passives and penetration from light armor and cp trees.

MasterSpatula

I'd been noticing DB failing to fire a LOT recently, but for some reason I didn't put it together as to why this was happening.

I think I over-blame the fact that I broke fingers in both hands about a year ago for why things never seem to work for me anymore and perhaps underblame intentional choices ZOS has made, especially considering when the issues have crept up within the last half-year.

Artorias24

Davadin wrote: »

KingExecration wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Cast times look bad and feel bad. It’s why so many switched over to other offensive ultimates. Zeni doesn’t play their own game and the bad players QQ on the forums till the devs ruin another playstyle. But what can you do besides not give them anymore money.

KingExecration wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

I slot DB on my stam main.

DB were being used as all too often as near spammables without counter. Run around a rock, every third circle spam DB. Run around a tower, every 3rd lap spam DB. And that is fine. In PVP this is popular play style. Don't get it, but you be you.

The other situation was sort of jumping, rolling, running into a group slamming a DB and then out.

Fluid is just a word for I want my high damage Ulti to be like a spammable. Why should it?

Every play option deserves and must have a counter play option. Especially damage oriented Ultis. Your DB is actually not a god given right. (Well ...)

Players should be able to interrupt, dodge away, get the block up, or whatever ...

Happens to me as well. It is not as easy to get that DB off in the middle of a crowd. It is harder to work it, time it, set it up. And that is exactly as it should be. I think ZOS got this right on this one.

Nothing has changed how frequently you can use dawnbreaker. Also running in a group, drop DB and jump out is still possible. Nothing changed.

Cast time has also nothing to do with wanting an ult be a spammable. Its just clunky to use when you can cancel every other skill in this game.

wrong. the whole idea from the dev and the whole complaint from the forum is exactly this: cast time makes it clunky in my rotation = i can't treat it as a spammable in my combo.

Players trained Animation cancel for years. Learned to cancel, barswap cancel, dodge cancel, block cancel. And putting then a cast time on ults interrupts the whole fluid of combat that is spread over your whole Rotation. That change is just bad for the fast and fluid combat that keeps to many players in ESO.

[removed baiting comment]

Based on your statement then all offensive ults need a cast time. Many times on magplar wearing blood pawn spear ult feels like a spammable. Why? Because I get it quick and it’s part of my rotation sealing the kill. So by that sense it fits the term you consider “spammable” the ults with a cast time can keep it sure. But if they are add uniqueness for landing it by increasing damage or adding effects to ults with it applied. Stam and mag dk leap both out do my stam sorc with dawny.

Make everybody happy and give every class a decent stam ult already. Same argument with dizzy. We don’t have any good options.

absolutely. all ultimate should have a cast time.

but for DK leap, well, that's got re-named into "flying time". i guarantee you, very easy to spot, can't be cancelled, and affected by lag all the same.

and sure, lets talk about increasing the damage/effectiveness of ultimates. not making them spammables.


ps: what's a stam ult? there's only ultimates. it even has its own resource, called ultimate points. it doesn use stam or mag. as a stam class, there's plenty of good ultimates to choose. Even the DW ulti is pretty decent now. (can still use a buff tho, it's a farcry from Onslaught or DB)

The penetration changes everything. Sure meteor has a 20k tooltip on my stam build but will hit like I threw napkin at you. Reason being I have zero pen and champion points aren’t buffing it.
If it were up to me it’d be separate entirely. Ultimates would just be ultimate damage and scale according. Add it’s own cp star and everything.
I’m astonished you think all ults do the same. Try ferocious leap on your stam dk and use take flight on your mag. Then get back at me that they’re the same. There’s a reason mag dks use ferocious. It fits into their pen and damage type.

my bad.

yes, ultimate morphs can sometime fits the build. my bad. you are right. (but not all. like, weapon skills ultimate morphs are specific to a stam or build depending on weapon type)


so yes on both points, i agree stam-morph can have better options, and definitely Meteor can use a buff and have their own CP point. It's unfair that Take Flight buffed by CP, but Meteor doesn't?

I cant really take you serious if you dont even know how cp works with your Different skills/ults and damage Type.

No ult should have a cast time. It interrupts fluid combat. I have a fast and smooth rotation with Block-, bash-, weaponswap- and dodgeroll cancel. But when it comes to an ult i must slow down everything to make my DB fire off due to its smal cast time. It feels wrong and all these changes are slowly taking out every player skill in this game.

Also what makes it even worse is the lag from this game. Due to the new cast time those ults takes sometimes 2 seconds to fire off making it Impossible to land any type of combo.

Really not fun and a completly unwanted change of those ult. Thanks ZOS. Thanks for always nerfing your endgame players to push casuals. I want my old ESO back and not this washed down casual Game.

Davadin

Artorias24 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

KingExecration wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Cast times look bad and feel bad. It’s why so many switched over to other offensive ultimates. Zeni doesn’t play their own game and the bad players QQ on the forums till the devs ruin another playstyle. But what can you do besides not give them anymore money.

KingExecration wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

I slot DB on my stam main.

DB were being used as all too often as near spammables without counter. Run around a rock, every third circle spam DB. Run around a tower, every 3rd lap spam DB. And that is fine. In PVP this is popular play style. Don't get it, but you be you.

The other situation was sort of jumping, rolling, running into a group slamming a DB and then out.

Fluid is just a word for I want my high damage Ulti to be like a spammable. Why should it?

Every play option deserves and must have a counter play option. Especially damage oriented Ultis. Your DB is actually not a god given right. (Well ...)

Players should be able to interrupt, dodge away, get the block up, or whatever ...

Happens to me as well. It is not as easy to get that DB off in the middle of a crowd. It is harder to work it, time it, set it up. And that is exactly as it should be. I think ZOS got this right on this one.

Nothing has changed how frequently you can use dawnbreaker. Also running in a group, drop DB and jump out is still possible. Nothing changed.

Cast time has also nothing to do with wanting an ult be a spammable. Its just clunky to use when you can cancel every other skill in this game.

wrong. the whole idea from the dev and the whole complaint from the forum is exactly this: cast time makes it clunky in my rotation = i can't treat it as a spammable in my combo.

Players trained Animation cancel for years. Learned to cancel, barswap cancel, dodge cancel, block cancel. And putting then a cast time on ults interrupts the whole fluid of combat that is spread over your whole Rotation. That change is just bad for the fast and fluid combat that keeps to many players in ESO.

[removed baiting comment]

Based on your statement then all offensive ults need a cast time. Many times on magplar wearing blood pawn spear ult feels like a spammable. Why? Because I get it quick and it’s part of my rotation sealing the kill. So by that sense it fits the term you consider “spammable” the ults with a cast time can keep it sure. But if they are add uniqueness for landing it by increasing damage or adding effects to ults with it applied. Stam and mag dk leap both out do my stam sorc with dawny.

Make everybody happy and give every class a decent stam ult already. Same argument with dizzy. We don’t have any good options.

absolutely. all ultimate should have a cast time.

but for DK leap, well, that's got re-named into "flying time". i guarantee you, very easy to spot, can't be cancelled, and affected by lag all the same.

and sure, lets talk about increasing the damage/effectiveness of ultimates. not making them spammables.


ps: what's a stam ult? there's only ultimates. it even has its own resource, called ultimate points. it doesn use stam or mag. as a stam class, there's plenty of good ultimates to choose. Even the DW ulti is pretty decent now. (can still use a buff tho, it's a farcry from Onslaught or DB)

The penetration changes everything. Sure meteor has a 20k tooltip on my stam build but will hit like I threw napkin at you. Reason being I have zero pen and champion points aren’t buffing it.
If it were up to me it’d be separate entirely. Ultimates would just be ultimate damage and scale according. Add it’s own cp star and everything.
I’m astonished you think all ults do the same. Try ferocious leap on your stam dk and use take flight on your mag. Then get back at me that they’re the same. There’s a reason mag dks use ferocious. It fits into their pen and damage type.

my bad.

yes, ultimate morphs can sometime fits the build. my bad. you are right. (but not all. like, weapon skills ultimate morphs are specific to a stam or build depending on weapon type)


so yes on both points, i agree stam-morph can have better options, and definitely Meteor can use a buff and have their own CP point. It's unfair that Take Flight buffed by CP, but Meteor doesn't?

I cant really take you serious if you dont even know how cp works with your Different skills/ults and damage Type.

No ult should have a cast time. It interrupts fluid combat. I have a fast and smooth rotation with Block-, bash-, weaponswap- and dodgeroll cancel. But when it comes to an ult i must slow down everything to make my DB fire off due to its smal cast time. It feels wrong and all these changes are slowly taking out every player skill in this game.

Also what makes it even worse is the lag from this game. Due to the new cast time those ults takes sometimes 2 seconds to fire off making it Impossible to land any type of combo.

Really not fun and a completly unwanted change of those ult. Thanks ZOS. Thanks for always nerfing your endgame players to push casuals. I want my old ESO back and not this washed down casual Game.

slow down there cowboy. not all playah runs a smooth multi-animation-cancelling combo in fast-paced PvP.

so yes, it does, i'll acknowledge, hurt you endgame skilled players. it really does. i see it now.



but as a casual me-self................



u keep ur old ESO and take it. I'm all in for this "washed down casual game".

Joy_Division

Vapirko wrote: »

People complained, ZOS listened. I don’t think the devs came up with this idea. People cried that ults like DBoS were too strong and everyone used it and all the damage was unavoidable. Now we have this. In this case hate the player not the game.

That's not entirely true.

”ZoS” wrote:

Adding cast times to Ultimates appears to be a change that most people here have reacted negatively to. Why are these cast times being added? What issue is the team attempting to solve with this change?
Ultimates abilities are some of the most powerful abilities in the game. We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimates, is just too much. You also can’t animation cancel them because we don’t want players to be able to instantly cast them anymore. They are just too powerful

That's not ZOS listening. That's ZoS saying too bad, we are committed to this in spite of what the community says.

Davadin

”ZoS” wrote:

Adding cast times to Ultimates appears to be a change that most people here have reacted negatively to. Why are these cast times being added? What issue is the team attempting to solve with this change?
Ultimates abilities are some of the most powerful abilities in the game. We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimates, is just too much. You also can’t animation cancel them because we don’t want players to be able to instantly cast them anymore. They are just too powerful

Joy_Division wrote: »

That's not ZOS listening. That's ZoS saying too bad, we are committed to this in spite of what the community says.

Canned_Apples

Girl, plz.
All these cast times wrecked a lot of ultimates.
They should remove them now that the cheese-swing meta is out.
Some don't even make any sense... Lacerate has one, yet Radial Sweep doesn't? Same with Soul Siphon and Rite of Passage.
Why do defensive ults need a cast time???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I loved using Soul Siphon, but now I have to use the generic Barrier.
# @ZOS_Gilliam logic

ChunkyCat

They’ll never admit it, but those millisecond cast times were put in place as a way to combat macros.

Whether they’re effective at doing so, well, that’s to be determined.

JusticeSouldier

ChunkyCat wrote: »

They’ll never admit it, but those millisecond cast times were put in place as a way to combat macros.

Whether they’re effective at doing so, well, that’s to be determined.

with eso performance/ping issue is not macros

Canned_Apples

Macros? Special keyboards?

hakan

the fact that they changed the original onslaught to something else even tho nobody asked for it (and they didnt even touch the very less used berserker rage) should give you a clue.

they make changes just because...

Trancestor

Cast time on NB healing ult lol, Gilliam is a genius.

DreadDaedroth

It should have the old passive back too.

MCBIZZLE300

Not sure why they havent reverted the changes other than bieng stubborn for no reason, if there was a vote tomorrow the vast majority would want cast times removed.

Mayrael

Cast times are bad not because of damage delay but because of unintuitive clunkyness. You weave or cancel each attack but then you need to stop to cast ultimate to not break it. It would be better to add this 0,4s delay in damage and make those skills instant. I very often used Ultimate then roll dodge to deal damage and avoid enemy hit due to being in melee range, now I can't do this, I need to stand like an idiot to land ultimate while others can chain their skills in nice combos.

Cast times are terrible. Remember when they wanted to add cast time to shields? Now imagine having this on ultimates that can't be spammed! Even better, NB defensive morph of a skill now has a cast time to, yeah awesome way to die. Even resto ult which is instant doesn't always manage to save you.

JusticeSouldier

Mayrael wrote: »

Cast times are bad not because of damage delay but because of unintuitive clunkyness. You weave or cancel each attack but then you need to stop to cast ultimate to not break it. It would be better to add this 0,4s delay in damage and make those skills instant. I very often used Ultimate then roll dodge to deal damage and avoid enemy hit due to being in melee range, now I can't do this, I need to stand like an idiot to land ultimate while others can chain their skills in nice combos.

Cast times are terrible. Remember when they wanted to add cast time to shields? Now imagine having this on ultimates that can't be spammed! Even better, NB defensive morph of a skill now has a cast time to, yeah awesome way to die. Even resto ult which is instant doesn't always manage to save you.

Completly agree, this is the reason why cast times are so awfull.
Wan't to add, that delay of damage can be increased, but start of animation which shows what's going on for others should be drawn instantly also.
Like some proc-sets do (most of them doesn't fit this because their pre-animations are almost invisible for target, but good example - Selene's proc).

Mayrael

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Cast times are bad not because of damage delay but because of unintuitive clunkyness. You weave or cancel each attack but then you need to stop to cast ultimate to not break it. It would be better to add this 0,4s delay in damage and make those skills instant. I very often used Ultimate then roll dodge to deal damage and avoid enemy hit due to being in melee range, now I can't do this, I need to stand like an idiot to land ultimate while others can chain their skills in nice combos.

Cast times are terrible. Remember when they wanted to add cast time to shields? Now imagine having this on ultimates that can't be spammed! Even better, NB defensive morph of a skill now has a cast time to, yeah awesome way to die. Even resto ult which is instant doesn't always manage to save you.

Completly agree, this is the reason why cast times are so awfull.
Wan't to add, that delay of damage can be increased, but start of animation which shows what's going on for others should be drawn instantly also.
Like some proc-sets do (most of them doesn't fit this because their pre-animations are almost invisible for target, but good example - Selene's proc).

Yes exactly, proc sets are great example of this mechanism which would be a lot better than those cast times. I think that delay shouldn't be to big because it ironically makes the skills stronger as it would allow to combo ulti with CC or other powerful skills. But delay 0,4-0,6 should be enough.

Casterial

The reason why Onslaught is popular is it's a lock on and only dodgeroll can negate it. Dawnbreaker having a cast time and being an AOE means you see it WAY before it lands which is why 85%+ of DB no longer land, what's the point of the stun on DB if you need to stun to land it?