Dawnbreaker is now dead to me.

MCBIZZLE300

Since the cast time was implemented on DB its just felt completely awkward not firing half the time and has lead to me completely disregarding the ultimate is it is not reliable or enjoyable. Can you the developers please look into changing DB Incap and Onslaught so that they aren't horrifically awkward to use (onslaught isnt too bad not sure why). maybe nerf the damage instead? This change alone has stopped me using stam nightblade AND dawnbreaker making the game less fun. These changes slow down the combat and make skill less rewarding as you cant string a combo together anymore like you used to be able to. Im talking from a PVP standpoint here obviously but ive seen many others express the same opinion, we want PVP to be fluid, not some awkward mess.

Davadin

CP Cyrodiil player here. mostly solo, with the occasional zergling.

when exactly PvP combat is fluid in big battles? do u look for small teams? dueling? Battlegrounds?

I use DB a lot, though obviously unlike some pro players out there, my combo doesn't get impacted by some unnoticeable "lag" that makes it that I can't do animation cancelling on it?

I just don't understand the complaint with DB cast-time EXCEPT when it bugs out that it didn't fire at all.

Otherwise, I can still use DB combo as fluid as ever because I usually trigger it at the end of the combo. (and when people not dead yet I simple weave-in a couple light-attack+Executioner or something)


This post is NOT about arguing or disagreeing with anything; I just don't understand why people are so up in arms with DB having a tiny cast time?

Don't they have to worry about lag at all or something? How fluid were the combo before? Any video to showcase and for me to practice, perhaps?

JusticeSouldier

agree, they should rework these skills and remove back these awfull cast times.
it is garbage and have right to exist only as every temporary solution

valeriiya

I think most people are dealing with lag so there's already a cast time, no need to make it worse

KingExecration

Davadin wrote: »

CP Cyrodiil player here. mostly solo, with the occasional zergling.

when exactly PvP combat is fluid in big battles? do u look for small teams? dueling? Battlegrounds?

I use DB a lot, though obviously unlike some pro players out there, my combo doesn't get impacted by some unnoticeable "lag" that makes it that I can't do animation cancelling on it?

I just don't understand the complaint with DB cast-time EXCEPT when it bugs out that it didn't fire at all.

Otherwise, I can still use DB combo as fluid as ever because I usually trigger it at the end of the combo. (and when people not dead yet I simple weave-in a couple light-attack+Executioner or something)


This post is NOT about arguing or disagreeing with anything; I just don't understand why people are so up in arms with DB having a tiny cast time?

Don't they have to worry about lag at all or something? How fluid were the combo before? Any video to showcase and for me to practice, perhaps?

Adding a cast time to an aoe like DB is mind boggling. Before you could cast and maybe get a little delay in lag. Now in lag I drop dawny and miss most of the time before by the time the server counts the cast time and catches up with the lag.

If the ults were an issue should have reworked them or nerfed them. Cast times make the combat of the game feel insulting where an entire second players can heal back up.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

Whoevers genius idea it was to add cast times to the Ults needs to go before HR and be disciplined. As well as for the SB and DH patches

Szende

Cast time makes ultis separated from spammables and other skills so its makes sense. Problem the lag. Somehow since cast time added i hit rolly opponenst easier with ult

Qbiken

Splish splash cast times are trash

KingExecration

Szende wrote: »

Cast time makes ultis separated from spammables and other skills so its makes sense. Problem the lag. Somehow since cast time added i hit rolly opponenst easier with ult

Spammables have cast times too.... Ultimates should feel unique and not a burden to cast. They should feel fluid by adding to combat and not getting bogged down in lag. Cast times have a place but not watering down combos people “can’t” defend against. Those players are probably still getting bopped by the same combos anyways. Why not buff the cast time ults by a large portion to make us feel rewarded for “skillful play.”

Why is offensive ults the only one with cast times? Defensive ults are incredibly powerful yet unscathed by such an abomination.

Artorias24

Whoever came up with this cast time idea should really take a step back and rethink about his/her decision.

80% of the playerbase is unhappy with this change. I know not a single soul out there who is happy about this. It took a lot of skill out of this game and pushes yourself back in Progression of your skill that you trained years for.

First thing that came to my head after trying out the cast time was: "okay, i must play like a *** now".

Years of training and now we get a casttime. Where they even said basicly "we know you dont like it but it will stay". How can you be so ignorant about your playerbase? Why you so in love with cast times starting when you wanted to put cast times on shields....

Just why do you push a change to live that 80% of you playerbase dont want???? We pay for that game! You should make changes that favour us, care about us. And not do whatever you want and ignoring our Feedback. There where 10+ threads with 100 replies and 100 likes/awesome in it that cast times need to Go. And you still push them to. I really want to know why. Why you ignore us.

MCBIZZLE300

Artorias24 wrote: »

Whoever came up with this cast time idea should really take a step back and rethink about his/her decision.

80% of the playerbase is unhappy with this change. I know not a single soul out there who is happy about this. It took a lot of skill out of this game and pushes yourself back in Progression of your skill that you trained years for.

First thing that came to my head after trying out the cast time was: "okay, i must play like a *** now".

Years of training and now we get a casttime. Where they even said basicly "we know you dont like it but it will stay". How can you be so ignorant about your playerbase? Why you so in love with cast times starting when you wanted to put cast times on shields....

Just why do you push a change to live that 80% of you playerbase dont want???? We pay for that game! You should make changes that favour us, care about us. And not do whatever you want and ignoring our Feedback. There where 10+ threads with 100 replies and 100 likes/awesome in it that cast times need to Go. And you still push them to. I really want to know why. Why you ignore us.

I completely agree, on another note why has incap recieved one aswel but not sweep from templar? Not that im advocating for sweep to recieve a cast time mind. They all need to be removed with immediate effect.

Artorias24

mcb123 wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Whoever came up with this cast time idea should really take a step back and rethink about his/her decision.

80% of the playerbase is unhappy with this change. I know not a single soul out there who is happy about this. It took a lot of skill out of this game and pushes yourself back in Progression of your skill that you trained years for.

First thing that came to my head after trying out the cast time was: "okay, i must play like a *** now".

Years of training and now we get a casttime. Where they even said basicly "we know you dont like it but it will stay". How can you be so ignorant about your playerbase? Why you so in love with cast times starting when you wanted to put cast times on shields....

Just why do you push a change to live that 80% of you playerbase dont want???? We pay for that game! You should make changes that favour us, care about us. And not do whatever you want and ignoring our Feedback. There where 10+ threads with 100 replies and 100 likes/awesome in it that cast times need to Go. And you still push them to. I really want to know why. Why you ignore us.

I completely agree, on another note why has incap recieved one aswel but not sweep from templar? Not that im advocating for sweep to recieve a cast time mind. They all need to be removed with immediate effect.

Ye, i also dont really know. But templar got buffs like crazy and still didnt recieved the cast time. Maybe an important dev mains a templar atm.

Vapirko

People complained, ZOS listened. I don’t think the devs came up with this idea. People cried that ults like DBoS were too strong and everyone used it and all the damage was unavoidable. Now we have this. In this case hate the player not the game.

MCBIZZLE300

Davadin wrote: »

CP Cyrodiil player here. mostly solo, with the occasional zergling.

when exactly PvP combat is fluid in big battles? do u look for small teams? dueling? Battlegrounds?

I use DB a lot, though obviously unlike some pro players out there, my combo doesn't get impacted by some unnoticeable "lag" that makes it that I can't do animation cancelling on it?

I just don't understand the complaint with DB cast-time EXCEPT when it bugs out that it didn't fire at all.

Otherwise, I can still use DB combo as fluid as ever because I usually trigger it at the end of the combo. (and when people not dead yet I simple weave-in a couple light-attack+Executioner or something)


This post is NOT about arguing or disagreeing with anything; I just don't understand why people are so up in arms with DB having a tiny cast time?

Don't they have to worry about lag at all or something? How fluid were the combo before? Any video to showcase and for me to practice, perhaps?

I think it depends on the class you play but me as a stamsorc having years of animation cancelling inprinted on my brain I just cant get used to the cast time, now id say 50% of the time my dawnbreaker doesnt go off at all because ive either roll dodged while using it, blocked while using it or switched bars while using it. It just feels horrible compared to before not to metion you can now be interrupted half way through the cast. Onslaught doesnt seem as bad despite the cast time it seems to weave better, cast times are a change no one asked for and no one needs.

Dr_Ganknstein

Cast times on ultimates have made them less fun for me. Its really annoying specially when its laggy.

MCBIZZLE300

Vapirko wrote: »

People complained, ZOS listened. I don’t think the devs came up with this idea. People cried that ults like DBoS were too strong and everyone used it and all the damage was unavoidable. Now we have this. In this case hate the player not the game.

Its so stupid though, before cast times if i was on the recieving end of a dawnbreaker and it killed me i'd accept that and carry on. At no point did i ever think it was op, i think onslaught now is more op than pre nerf dawnbreaker.

Calboy

mcb123 wrote: »

This change alone has stopped me using stam nightblade

That's what I like to hear. Zos, if you're listening please keep the cast times.

Drako_Ei

I stopped using stamblade for pve, cast time ult is a no for DPS

Artorias24

Vapirko wrote: »

People complained, ZOS listened. I don’t think the devs came up with this idea. People cried that ults like DBoS were too strong and everyone used it and all the damage was unavoidable. Now we have this. In this case hate the player not the game.

That ppl that complained about it will still getting clapped even with cast times. Cause they are casuals. They dont learn the game, dont think about proper builds and will never be good.

Ofc many ppl used dawnbreaker cause it was and still is the best choice for a stam ult on certain classes.

Stamsorc doesnt have a damage ult so He is forced into DB.

Stamden also doesnt have one besides bear and we know how bad it is in PvP.

Stamplar had sweep but it was bad for a long long time so he used DB also.

Nightblade was okay with incap even tho, this got also nerfed. With incap being so Bad now and additional cast times. Nightblades are a joke now and it is nearly Impossible to land a decent combo on any good player.

Dk has leap, only waiting on a nerf on this when enough pugs cried in forum.

Stamnecro has the colossus. Wich is good in group but for solo its to easy to avoid. So DB is the better choice here too.

As you can see, stam builds are really forced into using dawnbreaker and instead of giving each class a viable stamina damage ult they nerf dawnbreaker cause pugs cried so much?

ZOS always goes for the easy way wich is nerfing things into the ground. ZOS pushes the game so much for casuals its crazy. And they should stop it. All of the end game PvP content creators getting nerf after Nerf and soon there will be no one left.

Deathlord92

Incap horrible to use when I’m in 1vx the little zerglings dodge it so often lol

technohic

I dont have any problem with it 1v1 going off but lag and tightly stacked enemies where you could really use the AOE is a problem as the cast ultimates just dont want to go off.

I'm guessing they wait to see how their performance improvements shape up before they consider reverting

SilverPaws

Cast times must go away... It makes combat clunky and unenjoyable.

ChunkyCat

You’re not playing your StamBlade anymore?

So sad

Xologamer

Davadin wrote: »

CP Cyrodiil player here. mostly solo, with the occasional zergling.

when exactly PvP combat is fluid in big battles? do u look for small teams? dueling? Battlegrounds?

I use DB a lot, though obviously unlike some pro players out there, my combo doesn't get impacted by some unnoticeable "lag" that makes it that I can't do animation cancelling on it?

I just don't understand the complaint with DB cast-time EXCEPT when it bugs out that it didn't fire at all.

Otherwise, I can still use DB combo as fluid as ever because I usually trigger it at the end of the combo. (and when people not dead yet I simple weave-in a couple light-attack+Executioner or something)


This post is NOT about arguing or disagreeing with anything; I just don't understand why people are so up in arms with DB having a tiny cast time?

Don't they have to worry about lag at all or something? How fluid were the combo before? Any video to showcase and for me to practice, perhaps?

weaveing is a kind of animation canceling^^

jcm2606

Szende wrote: »

Cast time makes ultis separated from spammables and other skills so its makes sense. Problem the lag. Somehow since cast time added i hit rolly opponenst easier with ult

Ultimates are already separated by being on a resource pool that is slow to build up (unless you build for it, sacrificing other things, ie damage) and is fully consumed when casting an ult (preventing immediate re-casting and chaining of low cost ults).

With just light attacks alone, it'd take just under 42 seconds to gain enough ult to cast DBoS, starting from 0. Having Minor Heroism up reduces that to roughly 34 seconds, while having Major Heroism up reduces that to roughly 25 seconds. Each kill you get in PvP reduces that time by just under 7 seconds, and killing a vamp/WW reduces it by a further 3 seconds.

Say you just cast a DBoS and killed a player, while having the ult gen from light attacks going, as well as maybe Major Heroism (say you're a Warden with Shimmering up, and it absorbed a projectile). It would take you just over 19 seconds to get DBoS back, assuming you can keep Major Heroism and the light attack ult gen going the entire time.

That should be what differentiates regular skills from ults, lack of immediate accessibility and opportunity cost, not cast times that interrupt the flow of combat and make an already laggy game feel even laggier.

Daedric_NB_187

The fact that they need to be built up to even use them should warrant them to not have cast times. The change was stupid.

Artorias24

Can someone please explain to me why ZOS ignores the whole outcry on ult cast times? 80% of the players dont want them and they are just Like "ye, whatever they stay. Plz buy crowns"

Can someone explain this? No? Me neither.

jcm2606

Artorias24 wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why ZOS ignores the whole outcry on ult cast times? 80% of the players dont want them and they are just Like "ye, whatever they stay. Plz buy crowns"

Can someone explain this? No? Me neither.

Honestly because the vast majority just don't care. The outcry has only been particularly vocal in the end game community, especially in PvP, while the vast majority of players are in the mid game and more casual communities, where the cast times are just a minor annoyance, if they're even noticeable at all.

That's not to say that these players wouldn't be against them if they were more directly affected by them, I can guarantee a majority of that majority would be just as against them as we are, these players just haven't been affected by them enough to care enough to be vocal about them.

The thing is, though, this change doesn't affect these players, it affects those who were actually cancelling their ultimates and using ultimates in such a way that they need to be responsive, they need to be cast now, not in a second due to lag. The wise thing would be to listen to the players that are actually affected by this, which is most of the players who are vocally against them, but Zenimax isn't wise, now, aren't they?

Nerftheforums

Cast times are good, it allows for 60+ yo to have a couple more seconda to live before dropping dead. Gg.

BrokenGameMechanics

I slot DB on my stam main.

DB were being used as all too often as near spammables without counter. Run around a rock, every third circle spam DB. Run around a tower, every 3rd lap spam DB. And that is fine. In PVP this is popular play style. Don't get it, but you be you.

The other situation was sort of jumping, rolling, running into a group slamming a DB and then out.

Fluid is just a word for I want my high damage Ulti to be like a spammable. Why should it?

Every play option deserves and must have a counter play option. Especially damage oriented Ultis. Your DB is actually not a god given right. (Well ...)

Players should be able to interrupt, dodge away, get the block up, or whatever ...

Happens to me as well. It is not as easy to get that DB off in the middle of a crowd. It is harder to work it, time it, set it up. And that is exactly as it should be. I think ZOS got this right on this one.

jcm2606

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Cast times are good, it allows for 60+ yo to have a couple more seconda to live before dropping dead. Gg.

Except the cast times don't actually address players dropping dead more or less instantly. In those cases, it's more that the other player has delayed burst that can be timed to land at roughly the same time, giving the illusion of being dropped instantly, when in reality the work was done over 4-6 seconds or so.

Stamden has Sub Assault -> Dizzy -> Onslaught -> Execute, Dizzy lands followed quickly by Onslaught, then Sub Assault and Execute land roughly together, so 2-shot with a 3 second delay.

Magsorc has Curse -> spammable -> execute -> spammable -> Meteor -> Streak, there's 1 second of free time between Curse, execute and Meteor, which can be filled with a spammable, and by the time you Streak, Curse and Meteor will pop roughly together, which would proc the execute if the target is low enough, so basically a 1-shot with a 6 second long setup period.

Adding a 400ms cast time doesn't slow things down much, it just makes things clunkier. 400ms is only 0.4 seconds. Account for regular lag, we'll bump that up to maybe 0.6 seconds. A player only has to let their ult go through uncancelled for maybe 0.6 seconds, and it lands. That's within the GCD, so everything is still occurring at the same times, they just can't cancel the ult for that 0.6 second period, which just makes the game clunkier, not slower.

Add worse lag (which isn't uncommon in ESO), and it gets longer. Maybe it slows the combo down a tad, but everything has slowed down, so the effect of cast times isn't really that noticeable compared to everything else being laggy.