Why the backslash change :(

D3N7157

Im a templar main since ages and i like the change, fully charged POTL could even hit you for 10k with the right debuffs on you, imagine if it could crit now

MCBIZZLE300

Royaji wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

Pvpers complained, so it got nerfed, as is usually the case.

That's because this is a mmo with pvp being the real end game and hence everything should be balanced around pvp. You templar will still be face rolling pve don't worry.

Is that why the PvP capacity of the game is about 900 high level PvPers per mega server? And even those are rarely filled. Fine, I'll even double it with BGs and IC (even though that is pretty generous). 2000 spots for end-game?

PvP is as niche as end-game PvE is. Don't fool yourself.

PS4 pvp servers are at maxed capacity every single night of the week from 6-7pm till 10pm

eso_lags

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

Pvpers complained, so it got nerfed, as is usually the case.

ayu_fever wrote: »

pvp whiners are why we cant have nice things in pve.

everytime a pvp’er cries a nerf is born

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Everytime a pvp'er dies, a nerf is born.

So so sad.

For pve.

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Everytime a pvp'er dies, a nerf is born.

So so sad.

For pve.

Every time a PvEr whines... that’s all I got. Stop whining.

The only time that we whine is after things get nerfed because of PvP whiners. So really, you're the cause of nerfs AND PvE whining.

Instead of crying about people crying, which is actually hilarious, why not complain to the people who are the REAL cause of the problem. If zos will not balance pvp and pve seperatly then things will always be this way.

Pvp and pve are not the same and if you dont pvp, and especially if you dont small scale, you could never understand it until you do. But a lot of the time OP stuff in pvp is going to be OP in pve as well. The difference is that we are fighting actual players instead of NPCs..

When zos puts something broken in the game who is going to complain? Pve players who go through content faster? The NPCs they are killing? I dont think so. Maybe the end game players who want actual balance and skill to play a part, but why would someone complain if they are not being impacted by something in a negative way? And for the players, pvp or pve, who care about skill, of course we dont want broken things that carry bad players in the game. *** like earthgore, its pathetic honestly.

In the past people played fine without a lot of the broken stuff that has been put in the game, but people have become accustomed to being carried. But if zos balanced pve and pvp separately then at least maybe some of the stupid changes they make on either side could be avoided and maybe we could get some more skill back into this game.

Arciris

Why have any ability that relies on team work in an MMORPG? it doesn't make any sense!

Want to keep the boss in one place so you can pew pew safely its behind? Put in the effort yourself scrub!
Want some heals while you pew pew a boss from its rear? Put in the effort yourself noob!
Want some sustain? manage your own ressources dang it L2P Git Gud!

Healers and Tanks crutching on their DD to increase their own (already small) damage? Don't be carried you lazy support.



edit: typos

Weisstag

if you can't put out enough dps for it to work at its fullest potential don't slot it...

MajBludd

Do pvers actually care about balance or do they just care if they can burn through another boss?

RouDeR

Best change so far, APPROVED !

Vapirko

NyassaV wrote: »

This thing hits way to hard for a class that has enough damage

Magplar DoTs also got nerfed pretty hard. They will be receiving an I direct damage nerf because with puncturing strikes being direct damage now they won’t be able to get the exploited passive without putting 75 points into Thaum which is a big sacrifice. That’s a 10% loss of damage after toppling charge which is a big part of their burst. Also a lot of solo/damage spec Magplars dont use backlash. This isn’t unwarranted in the upcoming patch. Thank you for your informational post though.

Drako_Ei

Nerf for zerglings, buff for pve dps

ZarkingFrued

Lyserus wrote: »

I can understand where the Devs come from, but backslash is something to "mark" the enemy, I would almost always target the backlash target in a group because it's obvious

I think the better change would scale the max damage based on character power or give credit to the players doing the damage during backlash

This is exactly 100% and justifiably the reason that it has been fixed. Do your own damage. Remove all carries ZoS. ❤❤

Drdeath20

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

I can understand where the Devs come from, but backslash is something to "mark" the enemy, I would almost always target the backlash target in a group because it's obvious

I think the better change would scale the max damage based on character power or give credit to the players doing the damage during backlash

This is exactly 100% and justifiably the reason that it has been fixed. Do your own damage. Remove all carries ZoS. ❤❤

Except magplars do not have a stun to set up that damage and weak snares are a minor nuisance at best.

Bashev

Lyserus wrote: »

I can understand where the Devs come from, but backslash is something to "mark" the enemy, I would almost always target the backlash target in a group because it's obvious

I think the better change would scale the max damage based on character power or give credit to the players doing the damage during backlash

You can still target the enemy because of the visuals. It still can be used as mark.

Drdeath20

I dont mind the change to backlash. This was definitely meant to effect magplars. The backrow zergling needed a nerf but magplars still need a way to set up burst for this skill to be worth slotting and let me tell you snares just do not cut it.

If its not gonna be buggy anymore im all for this pve nerf which would actually be a buff. Now i can finally slot it, even when other templars slot it, and it will crit.

TequilaFire

Back to beamplars. lol

AvatarOfDerek

Morgul667 wrote: »

You gotta love those pve whiners who blame pvp for everything they dislike from world poverty , real world rain and apparently all of zos decision

Why would PvE players complain about the damage done by another PvE player against AI targets?
I'm pretty sure the balance change issues stem from PvP, not PvE.

Also, props for ramping up the drama to 11.

MartiniDaniels

Drdeath20 wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

I can understand where the Devs come from, but backslash is something to "mark" the enemy, I would almost always target the backlash target in a group because it's obvious

I think the better change would scale the max damage based on character power or give credit to the players doing the damage during backlash

This is exactly 100% and justifiably the reason that it has been fixed. Do your own damage. Remove all carries ZoS. ❤❤

Except magplars do not have a stun to set up that damage and weak snares are a minor nuisance at best.

You mean owners of the last 28m+ stun can't use it to set up burst on live? it's strange, I saw magplars spamming those light spears all around

SidraWillowsky

eso_lags wrote: »

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

Pvpers complained, so it got nerfed, as is usually the case.

ayu_fever wrote: »

pvp whiners are why we cant have nice things in pve.

everytime a pvp’er cries a nerf is born

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Everytime a pvp'er dies, a nerf is born.

So so sad.

For pve.

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Everytime a pvp'er dies, a nerf is born.

So so sad.

For pve.

Every time a PvEr whines... that’s all I got. Stop whining.

The only time that we whine is after things get nerfed because of PvP whiners. So really, you're the cause of nerfs AND PvE whining.

Instead of crying about people crying, which is actually hilarious, why not complain to the people who are the REAL cause of the problem. If zos will not balance pvp and pve seperatly then things will always be this way.

Pvp and pve are not the same and if you dont pvp, and especially if you dont small scale, you could never understand it until you do. But a lot of the time OP stuff in pvp is going to be OP in pve as well. The difference is that we are fighting actual players instead of NPCs..

When zos puts something broken in the game who is going to complain? Pve players who go through content faster? The NPCs they are killing? I dont think so. Maybe the end game players who want actual balance and skill to play a part, but why would someone complain if they are not being impacted by something in a negative way? And for the players, pvp or pve, who care about skill, of course we dont want broken things that carry bad players in the game. *** like earthgore, its pathetic honestly.

In the past people played fine without a lot of the broken stuff that has been put in the game, but people have become accustomed to being carried. But if zos balanced pve and pvp separately then at least maybe some of the stupid changes they make on either side could be avoided and maybe we could get some more skill back into this game.

My post was a joke, but I didn't make that clear enough.

Look, I agree with y'all on the Backlash thing. There's no reason it should be free damage for tanks and healer that's on the level of DPS characters. THAT is bad balance. What I DON'T like, however, is people trying to pit this on PvEers.

REGARDLESS, yes, people have been screaming for ZOS to balance PvE and PvP separately but that appears to have fallen on deaf ears. Their solution, instead, is to beat anything OP into the ground so that's it's not even usable. So now whenever someone points out something that's OP in PvP I immediately worry that it's going to mean a blanket nerf, especially since the complaints seem to be framed around nerfs to classes, not other potential solutions.

If you look at the Steadfast Hero nerf- go look at the original thread. The OP seemed to be gunning for nerfs to the Warden's netch vs. a set adjustment. And thankfully, the set got the adjustment (Warden main here), and now OTHERS are complaining about that, because the set may have gotten over-nerfed. There's not balance to the balancing.

And look- I main a MAGDEN in PvE, so I'm not out there chasing the meta. I'm not looking for sets that carry, nor am I looking to be OP myself. But ZOS nerfs things to a point where it's not even remotely fun to play any longer. I mained a stamblade for about a year -my first character in my first MMO, so I had no idea it was such a strong class at the time; I just wanted stealth archer- and it WAS OP for a while there. And it was crazy fun to play as a result. It's been "adjusted" multiple times over the past year or so, and it's finally hit the point where she's simply not fun to play. It's no fun to have to be in melee range with a squishy character if that character can't do enough damage to make the tradeoff (ranged vs. melee) worthwhile. My point here is that things get nerfed SO hard and, while that may result in PvP balance (is stamblade balanced now? I have no idea), it just destroys things in PvE.

TequilaFire

Maybe a sorc should have to do all the damage to get the killing blow from spamming their Mage's Wrath as well.
Opens up a can of worms with any pre-applied ability in a group now doesn't it?

Nirnroot420

Drdeath20 wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

I can understand where the Devs come from, but backslash is something to "mark" the enemy, I would almost always target the backlash target in a group because it's obvious

I think the better change would scale the max damage based on character power or give credit to the players doing the damage during backlash

This is exactly 100% and justifiably the reason that it has been fixed. Do your own damage. Remove all carries ZoS. ❤❤

Except magplars do not have a stun to set up that damage and weak snares are a minor nuisance at best.

Well that's just false. Toppling Charge is a super effective stun for melee magplars, aurora javelin is fine for ranged.
Purifying intoToppling and then administering your burst combo will be even more effective with the change to Backlash.

DR4GONFL1

ayu_fever wrote: »

pvp whiners are why we cant have nice things in pve.

everytime a pvp’er cries a nerf is born

So true... Instead of getting better, practicing skills, improving armor and weapons its easier for a PvP player to just call OP and ask for a nerf.

Halcyon_blue

Potl will still be used in trials as the only source of minor fracture and breach. Yes not that useful in small groups, but it's a thing in a group of 12. No, I'm not assuming people are using a snipe morph in vet trials. With LA weaving, blockade and shards I can pull off just below 10k dps on a parse monkey boss... it was always icing on the cake damage, compared to the debuffs.

In bg's, being able to crit with free physical damage was always going to be OP. I was looking forward to it, but I also understand why it's been adjusted. I can choose to slot it, knowing that if I use it, it will be in intelligent situations - opening volley, spiking, execute unless I'm busy say healing. It's not a absolute 6 sec 100% up time anymore. I get to play with more judgement required or slot in other abilities that I haven't had the space for - choosing between interesting alternatives is actually a good thing in my book.

I don't cyro zerg so I can't speak to that. And in my cyro build I don't use potl except in niche groups.

For both pve and pvp, potl is a great marker. That won't change, in addition to the reasons I've just put forward.

Will I miss doing more healer kb's around the corner in bgs? Hell yeah. But is it more balanced and fair for other players from a holistic game level? Hell yeah even more.

A hard decision but agree with it. Or let's just take away the ability to crit and keep it as is then. Would need testing.

BigBragg

I don't like a change. And rather than holding the devs responsible like a logical person, I will blame an aspect of the game that I don't like. Because reasons...

and no, I don't care that when they do listen to feedback they state it on the dev notes. I am also not going to pay attention to the fact that the devs will change whatever they want, regardless of community backlash. Nope. It is absolutely, one trillion percent the fault of the part that I don't like!

Vanos444

iCaliban wrote: »

You people are sad. This is a buff to pve so long as you dont just LA spam.

In what in dibella ***$, it's a buff??!
I can see a tank using it on PvE only. While, for PvP, it's for troll Dodgers and 1vs 1 trollplar.

TheNightflame

i new vacklash

ZarkingFrued

Drdeath20 wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

I can understand where the Devs come from, but backslash is something to "mark" the enemy, I would almost always target the backlash target in a group because it's obvious

I think the better change would scale the max damage based on character power or give credit to the players doing the damage during backlash

This is exactly 100% and justifiably the reason that it has been fixed. Do your own damage. Remove all carries ZoS. ❤❤

Except magplars do not have a stun to set up that damage and weak snares are a minor nuisance at best.

Holy smokes, what are you talking about??????? Seiously hope you're joking. Toppling Charge is a STUN, OFFBALANCE PROC, SPAMMABLE, GAP CLOSER THAT PROCS YOUR BURNING LIGHT. It's the most powerful stun in the entire game AND you still have the javelin stun option as well which just got buffs to at least one morph. Dude you even have a buff stun in another skill line. Not to mention an instant ulti and a healing channel dot. Magplars have been ruling this game as top tier for several patches. They can at the very least do their own damage for a skill that hits harder than Dizzy and debuffs

ZarkingFrued

DR4GONFL1 wrote: »

ayu_fever wrote: »

pvp whiners are why we cant have nice things in pve.

everytime a pvp’er cries a nerf is born

So true... Instead of getting better, practicing skills, improving armor and weapons its easier for a PvP player to just call OP and ask for a nerf.

And PVE crybabies N tryhards who post 100k dps videos on YT are why we cant have nice things in PVP. Constant Damage nerfs due to that nonsense, and pvp skills being turned into PVE
flaming garbage for roleplay

Tsar_Gekkou

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

DR4GONFL1 wrote: »

ayu_fever wrote: »

pvp whiners are why we cant have nice things in pve.

everytime a pvp’er cries a nerf is born

So true... Instead of getting better, practicing skills, improving armor and weapons its easier for a PvP player to just call OP and ask for a nerf.

And PVE crybabies N tryhards who post 100k dps videos on YT are why we cant have nice things in PVP. Constant Damage nerfs due to that nonsense, and pvp skills being turned into PVE
flaming garbage for roleplay

Zos keep releasing new trials that require high dps. You think permafrost had its damage halved due to pve? Of course not, pvpers cried about getting stunned and killed by zergs using it so the damage was nerfed, same as Backlash. You probably think Dizzying Swing got changed because of pve as well.

eso_lags

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

Pvpers complained, so it got nerfed, as is usually the case.

ayu_fever wrote: »

pvp whiners are why we cant have nice things in pve.

everytime a pvp’er cries a nerf is born

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Everytime a pvp'er dies, a nerf is born.

So so sad.

For pve.

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Everytime a pvp'er dies, a nerf is born.

So so sad.

For pve.

Every time a PvEr whines... that’s all I got. Stop whining.

The only time that we whine is after things get nerfed because of PvP whiners. So really, you're the cause of nerfs AND PvE whining.

Instead of crying about people crying, which is actually hilarious, why not complain to the people who are the REAL cause of the problem. If zos will not balance pvp and pve seperatly then things will always be this way.

Pvp and pve are not the same and if you dont pvp, and especially if you dont small scale, you could never understand it until you do. But a lot of the time OP stuff in pvp is going to be OP in pve as well. The difference is that we are fighting actual players instead of NPCs..

When zos puts something broken in the game who is going to complain? Pve players who go through content faster? The NPCs they are killing? I dont think so. Maybe the end game players who want actual balance and skill to play a part, but why would someone complain if they are not being impacted by something in a negative way? And for the players, pvp or pve, who care about skill, of course we dont want broken things that carry bad players in the game. *** like earthgore, its pathetic honestly.

In the past people played fine without a lot of the broken stuff that has been put in the game, but people have become accustomed to being carried. But if zos balanced pve and pvp separately then at least maybe some of the stupid changes they make on either side could be avoided and maybe we could get some more skill back into this game.

My post was a joke, but I didn't make that clear enough.

Look, I agree with y'all on the Backlash thing. There's no reason it should be free damage for tanks and healer that's on the level of DPS characters. THAT is bad balance. What I DON'T like, however, is people trying to pit this on PvEers.

REGARDLESS, yes, people have been screaming for ZOS to balance PvE and PvP separately but that appears to have fallen on deaf ears. Their solution, instead, is to beat anything OP into the ground so that's it's not even usable. So now whenever someone points out something that's OP in PvP I immediately worry that it's going to mean a blanket nerf, especially since the complaints seem to be framed around nerfs to classes, not other potential solutions.

If you look at the Steadfast Hero nerf- go look at the original thread. The OP seemed to be gunning for nerfs to the Warden's netch vs. a set adjustment. And thankfully, the set got the adjustment (Warden main here), and now OTHERS are complaining about that, because the set may have gotten over-nerfed. There's not balance to the balancing.

And look- I main a MAGDEN in PvE, so I'm not out there chasing the meta. I'm not looking for sets that carry, nor am I looking to be OP myself. But ZOS nerfs things to a point where it's not even remotely fun to play any longer. I mained a stamblade for about a year -my first character in my first MMO, so I had no idea it was such a strong class at the time; I just wanted stealth archer- and it WAS OP for a while there. And it was crazy fun to play as a result. It's been "adjusted" multiple times over the past year or so, and it's finally hit the point where she's simply not fun to play. It's no fun to have to be in melee range with a squishy character if that character can't do enough damage to make the tradeoff (ranged vs. melee) worthwhile. My point here is that things get nerfed SO hard and, while that may result in PvP balance (is stamblade balanced now? I have no idea), it just destroys things in PvE.

Ya i dont know about backlash. I dont care. This game is going down the gutter but its not because of pvp players or pve players, its simply because zos is bad at balance. All those nerfs you mention are NOT players faults. I dont care if 10 thousand people complain about something, that does NOT make it OP and it doesnt mean that zos should listen to them and nerf it. Zos needs to figure out balance for themselves but they cannot. They also need to stop blanket nerfs and the drastic changes every update. They also reeeeeaaalllyyy need to work on performance..

In other words zos needs to stop barfing out updates every quarter and take one off to balance the game and fix performance. Something sort of like another one tamriel.

Either way people will keep arguing about who is to blame when in reality its neither of them. But pvp will always get hit harder when it comes to something OP so its hard to blame people when something is broken. Like I said before, the NPCs or people blowing through content certainly will not be the ones complaining. Only competitive pvers, competitive pvpers, and the casual misinformed players.

And thats not to say the misinformed players should not be blamed for calling something OP when its not. But things like the proc-alypse? or earthgore? Those things were broken. Like I said before, players were fine early on in this game, lets say thieves guild, without certain things that are considered broken. But a lot of things they've been doing lately are insane. Dswing, dawnbreaker, their bright idea about putting a cast time on damage shields. And many people will agree that things like dswing are broken, but if they took the time to learn the game, at least pvp, they wouldnt feel that way.

Dswing is a good example because while power creep exists, extremely strong sets are added into the game, and abilities get stronger, things like dswing are considered OP even though they have been nerfed over time into a shell of what they used to be. Wrecking blow nerfed to remove the stun and empower in one ability. Empower nerfed to not give your next ability bonus damage, but instead give your next light attack bonus damage. Dswing nerfed in damage (im pretty sure two times). Then buffed slightly but still less damage then before. And now it loses its stun completely.

And I dont think its necessarily a bad change, I just think its a misguided and unfair change. It will be more damage for CP players, but not no CP players. It will be harder for small scale players to stun people with the off balance, while it will be easier for groups targeting a couple of people to land it. There are plenty of other examples as well.

All I can hope is that zos will make some changes and stop the constant nerfs and extreme "adjustments" in a short period of time. Many people thought combat would change for the better with wrobel left but its gotten worse.

leepalmer95

Jhalin wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Because god forbid the staple healer class keep the rest of its utility and group support. Same stupid bs as ever

Actually parts responsible for the group support which are heal in puryfying light and minor resistance debuffs in PotL are untouched so support roles can still support allies. They just cannot do a DPS which sounds more then fair.

What is stupid is a healbot that through the spam of this ability every 6 seconds adds heavy amount of burst damage pressure to the group which he already heavily supports with his heals and tankiness.

"spam every 6 seconds" for one thing, that isn't spam, that's smart use of the ability.

Secondly, what was the issue with it helping increase group dps? Seriously, what is bad about that? The high end healers will be popping it with their damage the same as they could now as if nothing is changed, it's the mid-tier players that are getting hit with yet another unneeded nerf to group damage.

Yeah casting a skill when its off cooldown is so smart wow, why didn't everyone else think of that.

Dps is way out of control and skills like this just added to that, why tf is a healer able to deal so much extra burst dmg from a skill when he's not really dpsing? It makes no sense.

If you are that bothered about the dmg loss, throw on another dot in its place and it'll placehold the dmg a little.

Jhalin

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Because god forbid the staple healer class keep the rest of its utility and group support. Same stupid bs as ever

Actually parts responsible for the group support which are heal in puryfying light and minor resistance debuffs in PotL are untouched so support roles can still support allies. They just cannot do a DPS which sounds more then fair.

What is stupid is a healbot that through the spam of this ability every 6 seconds adds heavy amount of burst damage pressure to the group which he already heavily supports with his heals and tankiness.

"spam every 6 seconds" for one thing, that isn't spam, that's smart use of the ability.

Secondly, what was the issue with it helping increase group dps? Seriously, what is bad about that? The high end healers will be popping it with their damage the same as they could now as if nothing is changed, it's the mid-tier players that are getting hit with yet another unneeded nerf to group damage.

Yeah casting a skill when its off cooldown is so smart wow, why didn't everyone else think of that.

Literally every over-time ability in the game is cast off cooldown. What exactly is your gripe with Blacklash in particular? Where’s the hate for Ele Drain? Or Blockade?

Or are those ok because they boost your dps?

As I said, all this does is lower the floor again for no reason. Don’t pretend it’s going to do a thing to reign in the 90k+ damage numbers from optimized groups.