DEVELOPER DEEP DIVE – LET’S TALK ABOUT CLASS IDENTITY - feedback from a StamDK

Rahar

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Ragnarock41

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

That is a load of crap.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

As for this whole we being impatient thing.. Lets make one thing very, very clear. I've asked for this yes, I've asked for a class alternative of heroic slash(when it was near suprise attack in tooltip), I always strongly disagreed with stonefist spammable , and went way out of my way to point out that I do not like the idea, nor anybody will. Do you know how long it has been since I've asked for a spammable though? Almost 3 years. So am I really impatient? 3 years is enough to make an entire game from nothing. I'm not impatient, not at all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

I don't think you're any good at paying attention to detail.

Vyvrhel

I like this one better: "In ESO, we want you to play your way"

Vyvrhel

lordrichter wrote: »

We consider these changes to be stop-gap measures

This might be a lingo problem since I am not a native speaker but does this mean they are panicking and don't know what to do?

starkerealm

Vyvrhel wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

We consider these changes to be stop-gap measures

This might be a lingo problem since I am not a native speaker but does this mean they are panicking and don't know what to do?

No. It means they're temporary measures, while a longer term solution is implemented.

OrderoftheDarkness

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

devilsTear

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

You use whip on your stamdk? How's that working out for you?

OrderoftheDarkness

devilsTear wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

You use whip on your stamdk? How's that working out for you?

I don't play for Stam DK, my friend is playing. He uses whip, but only without spam. One of his morphs gives weapon damage buff. I can assume it's done on purpose for more "elegant" weaving. Some people like that style. According to him, he would not want to change the whip.

Davadin

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

ok, now now, lets not assume. a spammable has one goal to achieve; to cheap, effective skill that can be used as a building block to your rotation without ruining ur sustain or contribution to the group.

and DK has lotsa options for spammables, even in trial groups, but until last week, we don't have a class-specific ones. that's all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

We?

I've asked for 4 years to have a non-poison/dragon/bleed theme for stamDK, NEVER once I pushed for a stamina whip.

Personally, the theme for stam needs to be solidified before we can figure out what skills would fit that theme perfectly. This is not a chicken-or-egg question, it's a basic requirement so we don't spin in circles.

And based on the article in my OP, seems like they want DK to be "Fire and Fury". So.... Stam gets the "Fury"? I don't know and perhaps, with the new poop fist, Fury = Earth.

I'm personally OK with it.


Not OK with stonefist implementation today, but I feel it's a better step in the right direction than this poison crap that got NOTHING to do with EITHER FIRE OR FURY.

BattleAxe

Davadin wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

ok, now now, lets not assume. a spammable has one goal to achieve; to cheap, effective skill that can be used as a building block to your rotation without ruining ur sustain or contribution to the group.

and DK has lotsa options for spammables, even in trial groups, but until last week, we don't have a class-specific ones. that's all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

We?

I've asked for 4 years to have a non-poison/dragon/bleed theme for stamDK, NEVER once I pushed for a stamina whip.

Personally, the theme for stam needs to be solidified before we can figure out what skills would fit that theme perfectly. This is not a chicken-or-egg question, it's a basic requirement so we don't spin in circles.

And based on the article in my OP, seems like they want DK to be "Fire and Fury". So.... Stam gets the "Fury"? I don't know and perhaps, with the new poop fist, Fury = Earth.

I'm personally OK with it.


Not OK with stonefist implementation today, but I feel it's a better step in the right direction than this poison crap that got NOTHING to do with EITHER FIRE OR FURY.

You personally may not have asked for stam whip but in general terms a majority of the dk community has asked for a stam whip since the beginning. Stone fist is definitely not the way devs should have gone and to dig their heels in about this change despite the obvious outcry against this skill. As far as class and theme wise this fire and fury is or stunt and doesn’t fit the actual dk theme of being the attrition class.

Davadin

BattleAxe wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

ok, now now, lets not assume. a spammable has one goal to achieve; to cheap, effective skill that can be used as a building block to your rotation without ruining ur sustain or contribution to the group.

and DK has lotsa options for spammables, even in trial groups, but until last week, we don't have a class-specific ones. that's all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

We?

I've asked for 4 years to have a non-poison/dragon/bleed theme for stamDK, NEVER once I pushed for a stamina whip.

Personally, the theme for stam needs to be solidified before we can figure out what skills would fit that theme perfectly. This is not a chicken-or-egg question, it's a basic requirement so we don't spin in circles.

And based on the article in my OP, seems like they want DK to be "Fire and Fury". So.... Stam gets the "Fury"? I don't know and perhaps, with the new poop fist, Fury = Earth.

I'm personally OK with it.


Not OK with stonefist implementation today, but I feel it's a better step in the right direction than this poison crap that got NOTHING to do with EITHER FIRE OR FURY.

You personally may not have asked for stam whip but in general terms a majority of the dk community has asked for a stam whip since the beginning. Stone fist is definitely not the way devs should have gone and to dig their heels in about this change despite the obvious outcry against this skill. As far as class and theme wise this fire and fury is or stunt and doesn’t fit the actual dk theme of being the attrition class.

I wish it's more than a stunt than being stuck as the attrition class....

OrderoftheDarkness

Davadin wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

ok, now now, lets not assume. a spammable has one goal to achieve; to cheap, effective skill that can be used as a building block to your rotation without ruining ur sustain or contribution to the group.

and DK has lotsa options for spammables, even in trial groups, but until last week, we don't have a class-specific ones. that's all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

We?

I've asked for 4 years to have a non-poison/dragon/bleed theme for stamDK, NEVER once I pushed for a stamina whip.

Personally, the theme for stam needs to be solidified before we can figure out what skills would fit that theme perfectly. This is not a chicken-or-egg question, it's a basic requirement so we don't spin in circles.

And based on the article in my OP, seems like they want DK to be "Fire and Fury". So.... Stam gets the "Fury"? I don't know and perhaps, with the new poop fist, Fury = Earth.

I'm personally OK with it.


Not OK with stonefist implementation today, but I feel it's a better step in the right direction than this poison crap that got NOTHING to do with EITHER FIRE OR FURY.

lol that's what my friend uses a whip for.
P. S. Do not be angry if Stam DK hit you with that whip.

Davadin

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

ok, now now, lets not assume. a spammable has one goal to achieve; to cheap, effective skill that can be used as a building block to your rotation without ruining ur sustain or contribution to the group.

and DK has lotsa options for spammables, even in trial groups, but until last week, we don't have a class-specific ones. that's all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

We?

I've asked for 4 years to have a non-poison/dragon/bleed theme for stamDK, NEVER once I pushed for a stamina whip.

Personally, the theme for stam needs to be solidified before we can figure out what skills would fit that theme perfectly. This is not a chicken-or-egg question, it's a basic requirement so we don't spin in circles.

And based on the article in my OP, seems like they want DK to be "Fire and Fury". So.... Stam gets the "Fury"? I don't know and perhaps, with the new poop fist, Fury = Earth.

I'm personally OK with it.


Not OK with stonefist implementation today, but I feel it's a better step in the right direction than this poison crap that got NOTHING to do with EITHER FIRE OR FURY.

lol that's what my friend uses a whip for.
P. S. Do not be angry if Stam DK hit you with that whip.

all joke aside, im happy if ur friend can use mag whip in his rotation. me, and many others im sure, can't afford more than 2 or 3 mag skills.

so does ur friend use it more than just to stack? he actually triggers it too?

im theorycrafting my PvE stamDK, i may slot it for the passive stacking, along with stonefist stacking and Fury... so we'll see.

OrderoftheDarkness

Davadin wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

ok, now now, lets not assume. a spammable has one goal to achieve; to cheap, effective skill that can be used as a building block to your rotation without ruining ur sustain or contribution to the group.

and DK has lotsa options for spammables, even in trial groups, but until last week, we don't have a class-specific ones. that's all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

We?

I've asked for 4 years to have a non-poison/dragon/bleed theme for stamDK, NEVER once I pushed for a stamina whip.

Personally, the theme for stam needs to be solidified before we can figure out what skills would fit that theme perfectly. This is not a chicken-or-egg question, it's a basic requirement so we don't spin in circles.

And based on the article in my OP, seems like they want DK to be "Fire and Fury". So.... Stam gets the "Fury"? I don't know and perhaps, with the new poop fist, Fury = Earth.

I'm personally OK with it.


Not OK with stonefist implementation today, but I feel it's a better step in the right direction than this poison crap that got NOTHING to do with EITHER FIRE OR FURY.

lol that's what my friend uses a whip for.
P. S. Do not be angry if Stam DK hit you with that whip.

all joke aside, im happy if ur friend can use mag whip in his rotation. me, and many others im sure, can't afford more than 2 or 3 mag skills.

so does ur friend use it more than just to stack? he actually triggers it too?

im theorycrafting my PvE stamDK, i may slot it for the passive stacking, along with stonefist stacking and Fury... so we'll see.

As my friend says now everything is possible of enchantment, traits. I do not want to advise anything about stam dk, because I am not competent in this, but you are on the right track, pay attention to the stone fist and off-balance from whip. I think there is something interesting here. Although it's simple for CP, it probably won't work for hardcore pve.
Good luck if you want to try.

SirAndy

Davadin wrote: »

DEVELOPER DEEP DIVE

That was a wee bit ambitious, don't you think?

Ragnarock41

Davadin wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

ok, now now, lets not assume. a spammable has one goal to achieve; to cheap, effective skill that can be used as a building block to your rotation without ruining ur sustain or contribution to the group.

and DK has lotsa options for spammables, even in trial groups, but until last week, we don't have a class-specific ones. that's all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

We?

I've asked for 4 years to have a non-poison/dragon/bleed theme for stamDK, NEVER once I pushed for a stamina whip.

Personally, the theme for stam needs to be solidified before we can figure out what skills would fit that theme perfectly. This is not a chicken-or-egg question, it's a basic requirement so we don't spin in circles.

And based on the article in my OP, seems like they want DK to be "Fire and Fury". So.... Stam gets the "Fury"? I don't know and perhaps, with the new poop fist, Fury = Earth.

I'm personally OK with it.


Not OK with stonefist implementation today, but I feel it's a better step in the right direction than this poison crap that got NOTHING to do with EITHER FIRE OR FURY.

Poison crap? If you don't like poison abilities, why do you even play this class? If you want pure physical damage, play a stamsorc.

I don't care if you want to play your off meta 2h/2h medium armor DK with igneous weapons and forward momentum or whatever, just lets get this one thing straight, as of right now, innate tankyness and healing isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore. attrition and dots isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore. A lot of the things that made this class unique is now common in all stamina specs. Hell even stamblades can get ridicilously tanky, there is no point in acting like stamDK is the definition of brawler in ESO. It was at some point, It isn't anymore.

The thing you call as ''flames and fury'' is nothing but fancy PR work with no backbone behind it. You don't like this whole ''Poison/fire/Dragon'' thing? Fine, just play a stamsorc/stamwarden., you'll have tons of physical damage.

StamDk as a pure physical damage class, will have no real identity. And earth themed abilities do look bad yes. There is no ''fury'' or ''flame'' in what is basically ''mudknight''.

Davadin

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

ok, now now, lets not assume. a spammable has one goal to achieve; to cheap, effective skill that can be used as a building block to your rotation without ruining ur sustain or contribution to the group.

and DK has lotsa options for spammables, even in trial groups, but until last week, we don't have a class-specific ones. that's all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

We?

I've asked for 4 years to have a non-poison/dragon/bleed theme for stamDK, NEVER once I pushed for a stamina whip.

Personally, the theme for stam needs to be solidified before we can figure out what skills would fit that theme perfectly. This is not a chicken-or-egg question, it's a basic requirement so we don't spin in circles.

And based on the article in my OP, seems like they want DK to be "Fire and Fury". So.... Stam gets the "Fury"? I don't know and perhaps, with the new poop fist, Fury = Earth.

I'm personally OK with it.


Not OK with stonefist implementation today, but I feel it's a better step in the right direction than this poison crap that got NOTHING to do with EITHER FIRE OR FURY.

Poison crap? If you don't like poison abilities, why do you even play this class? If you want pure physical damage, play a stamsorc.

coz i was promised (back in the days) of Dragon Knights, playing with Fire.... which is why I was a MagDK for the first year of ESO, going nuts in Cyrodiil almost earning an emperor title back then.... which then progressed to more "magical" stuff, so I swapped to Stam and gave poison a try...

I don't care if you want to play your off meta 2h/2h medium armor DK with igneous weapons and forward momentum or whatever, just lets get this one thing straight, as of right now, innate tankyness and healing isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore. attrition and dots isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore.

The thing you call as ''flames and fury'' is nothing but fancy PR work with no backbone behind it. You don't like this whole ''Poison/fire/Dragon'' thing? Fine, just play a stamsorc/stamwarden., you'll have tons of physical damage.

dude im with you 100%, which is why I posted what I posted in the Opening Post of this thread lol.... Flames and Fury was promised in middle of PTS cycle and what we got was Poop Fist and our only unique identity - attrition/DoT - was gutted?


I'm just saying, I try to play with the card i've been dealt with instead of jumping ship to another game, that's all..... stamDK is plays like *** now, but with a little adaptation at least it LOOKS decent....


again: I WANT the FIRE DRAGON THING.... it's in the god damn name of the class. and it was PROMISED TO US.
but all we got was poop fist and poison.
so I try to make it work and its not as bad as it sounds.

Davadin

SirAndy wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

DEVELOPER DEEP DIVE

That was a wee bit ambitious, don't you think?

i didn't call it that.

the article calls itself that.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/57025

Ragnarock41

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

ok, now now, lets not assume. a spammable has one goal to achieve; to cheap, effective skill that can be used as a building block to your rotation without ruining ur sustain or contribution to the group.

and DK has lotsa options for spammables, even in trial groups, but until last week, we don't have a class-specific ones. that's all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

We?

I've asked for 4 years to have a non-poison/dragon/bleed theme for stamDK, NEVER once I pushed for a stamina whip.

Personally, the theme for stam needs to be solidified before we can figure out what skills would fit that theme perfectly. This is not a chicken-or-egg question, it's a basic requirement so we don't spin in circles.

And based on the article in my OP, seems like they want DK to be "Fire and Fury". So.... Stam gets the "Fury"? I don't know and perhaps, with the new poop fist, Fury = Earth.

I'm personally OK with it.


Not OK with stonefist implementation today, but I feel it's a better step in the right direction than this poison crap that got NOTHING to do with EITHER FIRE OR FURY.

Poison crap? If you don't like poison abilities, why do you even play this class? If you want pure physical damage, play a stamsorc.

coz i was promised (back in the days) of Dragon Knights, playing with Fire.... which is why I was a MagDK for the first year of ESO, going nuts in Cyrodiil almost earning an emperor title back then.... which then progressed to more "magical" stuff, so I swapped to Stam and gave poison a try...

I don't care if you want to play your off meta 2h/2h medium armor DK with igneous weapons and forward momentum or whatever, just lets get this one thing straight, as of right now, innate tankyness and healing isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore. attrition and dots isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore.

The thing you call as ''flames and fury'' is nothing but fancy PR work with no backbone behind it. You don't like this whole ''Poison/fire/Dragon'' thing? Fine, just play a stamsorc/stamwarden., you'll have tons of physical damage.

dude im with you 100%, which is why I posted what I posted in the Opening Post of this thread lol.... Flames and Fury was promised in middle of PTS cycle and what we got was Poop Fist and our only unique identity - attrition/DoT - was gutted?


I'm just saying, I try to play with the card i've been dealt with instead of jumping ship to another game, that's all..... stamDK is plays like *** now, but with a little adaptation at least it LOOKS decent....


again: I WANT the FIRE DRAGON THING.... it's in the god damn name of the class. and it was PROMISED TO US.
but all we got was poop fist and poison.
so I try to make it work and its not as bad as it sounds.

You want FIRE dragon? Play a magDk. There. Its that simple. ANd If you wanted a ''fire knight'' of sorts with a mix of physical damage, then blame the developers for making fire count as ''magic damage''.

Honestly literally everything stamDk gets is half assed in some way , OTHER than the poison abilities which you just called crappy btw. The poison dots are the only abilities you don't have to share with magDks or tankDks or healer DKs. They're purely for stamDk only. If this stonefist rework happened in a time where they didn't also give all the other stamina classes excellent survivability , I could be happy about it and say ''It looks bad but they have good intentions'' and all that innocent stuff.

So these are said to be ''stop-gap measures'', then considering they gave stamden and stamsorc great survivability, does that mean DK in future gets some mobility and maybe some actual delayed burst? Probably not.

I'll watch and laugh in the next 3 months when they make stonefist green and spam FLAMES AND FURY all over the forums.

Davadin

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

ok, now now, lets not assume. a spammable has one goal to achieve; to cheap, effective skill that can be used as a building block to your rotation without ruining ur sustain or contribution to the group.

and DK has lotsa options for spammables, even in trial groups, but until last week, we don't have a class-specific ones. that's all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

We?

I've asked for 4 years to have a non-poison/dragon/bleed theme for stamDK, NEVER once I pushed for a stamina whip.

Personally, the theme for stam needs to be solidified before we can figure out what skills would fit that theme perfectly. This is not a chicken-or-egg question, it's a basic requirement so we don't spin in circles.

And based on the article in my OP, seems like they want DK to be "Fire and Fury". So.... Stam gets the "Fury"? I don't know and perhaps, with the new poop fist, Fury = Earth.

I'm personally OK with it.


Not OK with stonefist implementation today, but I feel it's a better step in the right direction than this poison crap that got NOTHING to do with EITHER FIRE OR FURY.

Poison crap? If you don't like poison abilities, why do you even play this class? If you want pure physical damage, play a stamsorc.

coz i was promised (back in the days) of Dragon Knights, playing with Fire.... which is why I was a MagDK for the first year of ESO, going nuts in Cyrodiil almost earning an emperor title back then.... which then progressed to more "magical" stuff, so I swapped to Stam and gave poison a try...

I don't care if you want to play your off meta 2h/2h medium armor DK with igneous weapons and forward momentum or whatever, just lets get this one thing straight, as of right now, innate tankyness and healing isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore. attrition and dots isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore.

The thing you call as ''flames and fury'' is nothing but fancy PR work with no backbone behind it. You don't like this whole ''Poison/fire/Dragon'' thing? Fine, just play a stamsorc/stamwarden., you'll have tons of physical damage.

dude im with you 100%, which is why I posted what I posted in the Opening Post of this thread lol.... Flames and Fury was promised in middle of PTS cycle and what we got was Poop Fist and our only unique identity - attrition/DoT - was gutted?


I'm just saying, I try to play with the card i've been dealt with instead of jumping ship to another game, that's all..... stamDK is plays like *** now, but with a little adaptation at least it LOOKS decent....


again: I WANT the FIRE DRAGON THING.... it's in the god damn name of the class. and it was PROMISED TO US.
but all we got was poop fist and poison.
so I try to make it work and its not as bad as it sounds.

You want FIRE dragon? Play a magDk. There. Its that simple. ANd If you wanted a ''fire knight'' of sorts with a mix of physical damage, then blame the developers for making fire count as ''magic damage''.

Honestly literally everything stamDk gets is half assed in some way , OTHER than the poison abilities which you just called crappy btw. The poison dots are the only abilities you don't have to share with magDks or tankDks or healer DKs. They're purely for stamDk only. If this stonefist rework happened in a time where they didn't also give all the other stamina classes excellent survivability , I could be happy about it and say ''It looks bad but they have good intentions'' and all that innocent stuff.

So these are said to be ''stop-gap measures'', then considering they gave stamden and stamsorc great survivability, does that mean DK in future gets some mobility and maybe some actual delayed burst? Probably not.

I'll watch and laugh in the next 3 months when they make stonefist green and spam FLAMES AND FURY all over the forums.

i'm slotting wings, volatile armor and molten armaments on my SnB bar.

#LOOKMAIMADRAGON
#MUHIMMERSION

Ragnarock41

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

ok, now now, lets not assume. a spammable has one goal to achieve; to cheap, effective skill that can be used as a building block to your rotation without ruining ur sustain or contribution to the group.

and DK has lotsa options for spammables, even in trial groups, but until last week, we don't have a class-specific ones. that's all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

We?

I've asked for 4 years to have a non-poison/dragon/bleed theme for stamDK, NEVER once I pushed for a stamina whip.

Personally, the theme for stam needs to be solidified before we can figure out what skills would fit that theme perfectly. This is not a chicken-or-egg question, it's a basic requirement so we don't spin in circles.

And based on the article in my OP, seems like they want DK to be "Fire and Fury". So.... Stam gets the "Fury"? I don't know and perhaps, with the new poop fist, Fury = Earth.

I'm personally OK with it.


Not OK with stonefist implementation today, but I feel it's a better step in the right direction than this poison crap that got NOTHING to do with EITHER FIRE OR FURY.

Poison crap? If you don't like poison abilities, why do you even play this class? If you want pure physical damage, play a stamsorc.

coz i was promised (back in the days) of Dragon Knights, playing with Fire.... which is why I was a MagDK for the first year of ESO, going nuts in Cyrodiil almost earning an emperor title back then.... which then progressed to more "magical" stuff, so I swapped to Stam and gave poison a try...

I don't care if you want to play your off meta 2h/2h medium armor DK with igneous weapons and forward momentum or whatever, just lets get this one thing straight, as of right now, innate tankyness and healing isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore. attrition and dots isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore.

The thing you call as ''flames and fury'' is nothing but fancy PR work with no backbone behind it. You don't like this whole ''Poison/fire/Dragon'' thing? Fine, just play a stamsorc/stamwarden., you'll have tons of physical damage.

dude im with you 100%, which is why I posted what I posted in the Opening Post of this thread lol.... Flames and Fury was promised in middle of PTS cycle and what we got was Poop Fist and our only unique identity - attrition/DoT - was gutted?


I'm just saying, I try to play with the card i've been dealt with instead of jumping ship to another game, that's all..... stamDK is plays like *** now, but with a little adaptation at least it LOOKS decent....


again: I WANT the FIRE DRAGON THING.... it's in the god damn name of the class. and it was PROMISED TO US.
but all we got was poop fist and poison.
so I try to make it work and its not as bad as it sounds.

You want FIRE dragon? Play a magDk. There. Its that simple. ANd If you wanted a ''fire knight'' of sorts with a mix of physical damage, then blame the developers for making fire count as ''magic damage''.

Honestly literally everything stamDk gets is half assed in some way , OTHER than the poison abilities which you just called crappy btw. The poison dots are the only abilities you don't have to share with magDks or tankDks or healer DKs. They're purely for stamDk only. If this stonefist rework happened in a time where they didn't also give all the other stamina classes excellent survivability , I could be happy about it and say ''It looks bad but they have good intentions'' and all that innocent stuff.

So these are said to be ''stop-gap measures'', then considering they gave stamden and stamsorc great survivability, does that mean DK in future gets some mobility and maybe some actual delayed burst? Probably not.

I'll watch and laugh in the next 3 months when they make stonefist green and spam FLAMES AND FURY all over the forums.

i'm slotting wings, volatile armor and molten armaments on my SnB bar.

#LOOKMAIMADRAGON
#MUHIMMERSION

And meanwhile that stamden over there slots shimmering shield,netch and ice spikes for their ''immersion''.


Meanwhile you pay 3500 mag for wings, and pay another 3500 mag whenever you need snare removal, 4300 mag for molten armaments, 2700 for volatile armor, which doesn't even scale off of weapon damage.

But now you got stonefist as a spammable, so you get to join the ''cool guys with a class spammable'' club!

Oh? Whats that? stamden now gets a free purge and a dot thats better than mine? stamsorcs now have healing and delayed burst? Stamblades get to keep cloak and shade without the wings treatment? They made soul trap stronger than venomous claws? Corrosive armor nerf still not reverted? Class dots now cost double? Dot damage still nerfed compared to U22?

Oh I'm such an ungrateful, whiny, trash tier player that doesn't know how much the developers truly care for me. Since they gave us stonefist that makes up for all the stuff I listed. Silly me, Honestly, shame on me.

I should go write a public apology for I surely do not deserve such passionate, hard working developers that totally love every part of their community equally.

And to think this is merely part 1, I can't wait for all the soul crushing exciting nerfs changes that will happen in the next update.

Davadin

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

ok, now now, lets not assume. a spammable has one goal to achieve; to cheap, effective skill that can be used as a building block to your rotation without ruining ur sustain or contribution to the group.

and DK has lotsa options for spammables, even in trial groups, but until last week, we don't have a class-specific ones. that's all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

We?

I've asked for 4 years to have a non-poison/dragon/bleed theme for stamDK, NEVER once I pushed for a stamina whip.

Personally, the theme for stam needs to be solidified before we can figure out what skills would fit that theme perfectly. This is not a chicken-or-egg question, it's a basic requirement so we don't spin in circles.

And based on the article in my OP, seems like they want DK to be "Fire and Fury". So.... Stam gets the "Fury"? I don't know and perhaps, with the new poop fist, Fury = Earth.

I'm personally OK with it.


Not OK with stonefist implementation today, but I feel it's a better step in the right direction than this poison crap that got NOTHING to do with EITHER FIRE OR FURY.

Poison crap? If you don't like poison abilities, why do you even play this class? If you want pure physical damage, play a stamsorc.

coz i was promised (back in the days) of Dragon Knights, playing with Fire.... which is why I was a MagDK for the first year of ESO, going nuts in Cyrodiil almost earning an emperor title back then.... which then progressed to more "magical" stuff, so I swapped to Stam and gave poison a try...

I don't care if you want to play your off meta 2h/2h medium armor DK with igneous weapons and forward momentum or whatever, just lets get this one thing straight, as of right now, innate tankyness and healing isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore. attrition and dots isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore.

The thing you call as ''flames and fury'' is nothing but fancy PR work with no backbone behind it. You don't like this whole ''Poison/fire/Dragon'' thing? Fine, just play a stamsorc/stamwarden., you'll have tons of physical damage.

dude im with you 100%, which is why I posted what I posted in the Opening Post of this thread lol.... Flames and Fury was promised in middle of PTS cycle and what we got was Poop Fist and our only unique identity - attrition/DoT - was gutted?


I'm just saying, I try to play with the card i've been dealt with instead of jumping ship to another game, that's all..... stamDK is plays like *** now, but with a little adaptation at least it LOOKS decent....


again: I WANT the FIRE DRAGON THING.... it's in the god damn name of the class. and it was PROMISED TO US.
but all we got was poop fist and poison.
so I try to make it work and its not as bad as it sounds.

You want FIRE dragon? Play a magDk. There. Its that simple. ANd If you wanted a ''fire knight'' of sorts with a mix of physical damage, then blame the developers for making fire count as ''magic damage''.

Honestly literally everything stamDk gets is half assed in some way , OTHER than the poison abilities which you just called crappy btw. The poison dots are the only abilities you don't have to share with magDks or tankDks or healer DKs. They're purely for stamDk only. If this stonefist rework happened in a time where they didn't also give all the other stamina classes excellent survivability , I could be happy about it and say ''It looks bad but they have good intentions'' and all that innocent stuff.

So these are said to be ''stop-gap measures'', then considering they gave stamden and stamsorc great survivability, does that mean DK in future gets some mobility and maybe some actual delayed burst? Probably not.

I'll watch and laugh in the next 3 months when they make stonefist green and spam FLAMES AND FURY all over the forums.

i'm slotting wings, volatile armor and molten armaments on my SnB bar.

#LOOKMAIMADRAGON
#MUHIMMERSION

And meanwhile that stamden over there slots shimmering shield,netch and ice spikes for their ''immersion''.


Meanwhile you pay 3500 mag for wings, and pay another 3500 mag whenever you need snare removal, 4300 mag for molten armaments, 2700 for volatile armor, which doesn't even scale off of weapon damage.

But now you got stonefist as a spammable, so you get to join the ''cool guys with a class spammable'' club!

Oh? Whats that? stamden now gets a free purge and a dot thats better than mine? stamsorcs now have healing and delayed burst? Stamblades get to keep cloak and shade without the wings treatment? They made soul trap stronger than venomous claws? Corrosive armor nerf still not reverted? Class dots now cost double? Dot damage still nerfed compared to U22?

Oh I'm such an ungrateful, whiny, trash tier player that doesn't know how much the developers truly care for me. Since they gave us stonefist that makes up for all the stuff I listed. Silly me, Honestly, shame on me.

I should go write a public apology for I surely do not deserve such passionate, hard working developers that totally love every part of their community equally.

And to think this is merely part 1, I can't wait for all the soul crushing exciting nerfs changes that will happen in the next update.

ok guy. no joke. put down the espresso mug. get some fresh air. lol

i feel ya (seriously, read my OP again)

Ragnarock41

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »

I think a good Stam DK adds magic spells to its build, including a whip too. He also knows how to use magic well. I see no reason to be a DK and not use the magical opportunities of the flame. I would call it class identity.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

ok, now now, lets not assume. a spammable has one goal to achieve; to cheap, effective skill that can be used as a building block to your rotation without ruining ur sustain or contribution to the group.

and DK has lotsa options for spammables, even in trial groups, but until last week, we don't have a class-specific ones. that's all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

We?

I've asked for 4 years to have a non-poison/dragon/bleed theme for stamDK, NEVER once I pushed for a stamina whip.

Personally, the theme for stam needs to be solidified before we can figure out what skills would fit that theme perfectly. This is not a chicken-or-egg question, it's a basic requirement so we don't spin in circles.

And based on the article in my OP, seems like they want DK to be "Fire and Fury". So.... Stam gets the "Fury"? I don't know and perhaps, with the new poop fist, Fury = Earth.

I'm personally OK with it.


Not OK with stonefist implementation today, but I feel it's a better step in the right direction than this poison crap that got NOTHING to do with EITHER FIRE OR FURY.

Poison crap? If you don't like poison abilities, why do you even play this class? If you want pure physical damage, play a stamsorc.

coz i was promised (back in the days) of Dragon Knights, playing with Fire.... which is why I was a MagDK for the first year of ESO, going nuts in Cyrodiil almost earning an emperor title back then.... which then progressed to more "magical" stuff, so I swapped to Stam and gave poison a try...

I don't care if you want to play your off meta 2h/2h medium armor DK with igneous weapons and forward momentum or whatever, just lets get this one thing straight, as of right now, innate tankyness and healing isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore. attrition and dots isn't exclusive to stamDK anymore.

The thing you call as ''flames and fury'' is nothing but fancy PR work with no backbone behind it. You don't like this whole ''Poison/fire/Dragon'' thing? Fine, just play a stamsorc/stamwarden., you'll have tons of physical damage.

dude im with you 100%, which is why I posted what I posted in the Opening Post of this thread lol.... Flames and Fury was promised in middle of PTS cycle and what we got was Poop Fist and our only unique identity - attrition/DoT - was gutted?


I'm just saying, I try to play with the card i've been dealt with instead of jumping ship to another game, that's all..... stamDK is plays like *** now, but with a little adaptation at least it LOOKS decent....


again: I WANT the FIRE DRAGON THING.... it's in the god damn name of the class. and it was PROMISED TO US.
but all we got was poop fist and poison.
so I try to make it work and its not as bad as it sounds.

You want FIRE dragon? Play a magDk. There. Its that simple. ANd If you wanted a ''fire knight'' of sorts with a mix of physical damage, then blame the developers for making fire count as ''magic damage''.

Honestly literally everything stamDk gets is half assed in some way , OTHER than the poison abilities which you just called crappy btw. The poison dots are the only abilities you don't have to share with magDks or tankDks or healer DKs. They're purely for stamDk only. If this stonefist rework happened in a time where they didn't also give all the other stamina classes excellent survivability , I could be happy about it and say ''It looks bad but they have good intentions'' and all that innocent stuff.

So these are said to be ''stop-gap measures'', then considering they gave stamden and stamsorc great survivability, does that mean DK in future gets some mobility and maybe some actual delayed burst? Probably not.

I'll watch and laugh in the next 3 months when they make stonefist green and spam FLAMES AND FURY all over the forums.

i'm slotting wings, volatile armor and molten armaments on my SnB bar.

#LOOKMAIMADRAGON
#MUHIMMERSION

And meanwhile that stamden over there slots shimmering shield,netch and ice spikes for their ''immersion''.


Meanwhile you pay 3500 mag for wings, and pay another 3500 mag whenever you need snare removal, 4300 mag for molten armaments, 2700 for volatile armor, which doesn't even scale off of weapon damage.

But now you got stonefist as a spammable, so you get to join the ''cool guys with a class spammable'' club!

Oh? Whats that? stamden now gets a free purge and a dot thats better than mine? stamsorcs now have healing and delayed burst? Stamblades get to keep cloak and shade without the wings treatment? They made soul trap stronger than venomous claws? Corrosive armor nerf still not reverted? Class dots now cost double? Dot damage still nerfed compared to U22?

Oh I'm such an ungrateful, whiny, trash tier player that doesn't know how much the developers truly care for me. Since they gave us stonefist that makes up for all the stuff I listed. Silly me, Honestly, shame on me.

I should go write a public apology for I surely do not deserve such passionate, hard working developers that totally love every part of their community equally.

And to think this is merely part 1, I can't wait for all the soul crushing exciting nerfs changes that will happen in the next update.

ok guy. no joke. put down the espresso mug. get some fresh air. lol

i feel ya (seriously, read my OP again)

I know I know, more fresh air, less caffeine , happy thoughts, butterflies and rainbows.

Rahar

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

That is a load of crap.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

As for this whole we being impatient thing.. Lets make one thing very, very clear. I've asked for this yes, I've asked for a class alternative of heroic slash(when it was near suprise attack in tooltip), I always strongly disagreed with stonefist spammable , and went way out of my way to point out that I do not like the idea, nor anybody will. Do you know how long it has been since I've asked for a spammable though? Almost 3 years. So am I really impatient? 3 years is enough to make an entire game from nothing. I'm not impatient, not at all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

I don't think you're any good at paying attention to detail.

It's kind of ironic that you accuse me of paying no attention to detail when, in the same post, you've paid no attention to what I'm arguing for. The point I put forward is that the developers changed the look of stonefist according to a sizable DK outcry. This has nothing to do with how the ability works (i.e., it is now a spammable), which is what for some strange reason you've decided to argue for when I've said nothing to the contrary.

Regardless, I'll go up to bat for a point I didn't even put forward for your sake.

DKs have, for a while, asked for a spammable. It doesn't matter that it's not your ideal of what a spammable should be on the class, or that it's not a stamina whip. The point I'd like to make abundantly clear to you is that, despite this, they've now changed it according to what the community has asked for. This is a world of difference from the team's response before the article was released, which was to do nothing for the most part -- So no, I'm sorry, you haven't been waiting for this change for three years because there was no statement put forward or even an effort to change it in the first place. You've just been asking for three years, and now they're changing things according to what you're asking for. How is this a step in the wrong direction? How is this proof that what they wrote in the article is not what they're just now focusing on? Instead, you've decided to chastise this new leadership based on what the old combat team did or did not do and reject any changes that the new team puts forward, even if it is better than you had. It makes no sense. It's borderline insanity, and petulant to boot.

It might not be what you want now, but I think I'm relatively safe in thinking that we can see more changes later. That's the point I've been trying to get across.

Mephilis78

I may not be here very often, and partly because my main platform has been Xbox for a long time. However, for over half a year, I haven't had an xbox, so PTS is my temporary home (partly because it keeps me from have to buy all my stuff a second time).

I've noticed something, though. My main on xbox was a Breton stamDK. I know that sounds counter intuitive, but as far as lore goes, High Rock is filled with non-magical Knightly Orders. When I finally got my PC working and tried to rebuild my main in PTS, it seems that the DK class on it's own, no longer has any viable stamina abilities. I know they existed when I built my main, but now, no matter what morphs I look at, the good stamina abilities are gone, for some reason. I suppose I could fall back on the fact that I use a Breton, but I don't like that idea at all.

Also, even in the old days, in order to get a stamina morph on a DK ability, you first had to level the starting abilities which were 100% magic. Doesn't it seem counter productive, and a waste of time, to spend the better part of the early game getting your a$$ kicked by mobs because you have a stam character who has to use magic just to get to a full stamina build?

grannas211

OP: Lets talk about class identity

ZOS: Lets not

Davadin

grannas211 wrote: »

OP: Lets talk about class identity

ZOS: Lets not

more like;

OP: so this discussion on class identity that's been going nowhere for years...

ZOS: OH that's right! Here's an article of what can happen! Wow! So awesome.

OP: Cool. Hmm... but let's talk about what you said in that arti...

ZOS: *left the channel*

Rampeal

If they really want class idenity make a Stamina and magicka morph for each skill. Maybe then I will be able to play with 100% class skills rather than 25% as a stamina build.

Skoomah

usmcjdking wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

TLDR; NOTHING in the article is true in the game for a stamDK. NOTHING.

U24 is not the completion of this work, but just some quick updates as they work on it longer term:

We consider these changes to be stop-gap measures while the team evaluates more holistic improvements for each class in the future. We’re not yet ready to share details on those long-term efforts

ZOS has been saying that for years.

I'd believe it if there were any evidence that the dev team has an actual vision these updates are moving toward and there was discernible progress update after update toward that vision.

What has been happening for years is the devs just spring on us some radical change to entire systems: whether it's redoing healing, massive DPS increase to DOTs, Morrowind sustain nerfs, reworking blocking and tanking to make it more "fun," "standardization" for every ability in the game such that the only difference was the color of the skill, shields, etc. There is no vision they build on.

They've done a great job of undoing some of the stupidity over the previous 4 years and bringing some semblance of sanity.

People got used to and then accepted a D grade system that was about as neat and congruent as a plate of spaghetti. Of course no one ever actually said that - got a lot of "devs suck more balance!!!11!1!" "fire Wrobel!!!1!". But now when the thing people were absolutely clamoring for, a balanced system, begins to come to order ITS COMPLETE *** CHAOS THE CHILDREN ARE BURNING GOD SAVE THE QUEEN.

Of course it's going to be a fairly tumultuous adventure lol. I have and will continue to maintain that the previous combat system was busted garbage and could not be balanced and was absolutely worth nuking. I will maintain the optimism that the system in development will allow for much greater latitude in appropriate skill/passive adjustment as everything is being reduced to a baseline performance that it should have been at launch.

Thanks for supporting the destruction of any class flavor.

Ragnarock41

Rahar wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Controversial opinion warning.

The fact that they've even updated stone fist to be a lava ball is a pretty big indicator that yeah, they're listening. If you've played a decent amount of time into any MMO you should know that developers changing the way that skills look for the community's sake is a big deal. As a developer myself, and knowing how much that skill set can make hourly, it's a bit of an investment to do something like that purely for the sake of looks and theme. And they've promised more.

So I'd say they're listening and we can count on further bits and pieces here and there; think of it as little baby steps that will eventually work into the bigger picture, the "flame and fury". They've only just announced that they want to pay more attention to themes, so it might be a bit of time before we see anything really substantial.

Where this unfortunately breaks down is when players don't have the patience to wait for things to change or are too entitled to accept changes in general. I saw a lot of this when the stone fist update came out, e.g., "I don't like the fireball because it's not perfect/it's not exactly what I wanted". You asked for change and you got it; that should be a sign to you. Keep pushing.

So, yes. I think the article was less damage control than you think it is.

That is a load of crap.

Stonefist as a spammable has one goal to achieve;

Its to provide stamDK a tool to be relevant in trial groups. Done. Players will slot it not because they have been dying to weave some stonefist, but because they have no other option now.

As for this whole we being impatient thing.. Lets make one thing very, very clear. I've asked for this yes, I've asked for a class alternative of heroic slash(when it was near suprise attack in tooltip), I always strongly disagreed with stonefist spammable , and went way out of my way to point out that I do not like the idea, nor anybody will. Do you know how long it has been since I've asked for a spammable though? Almost 3 years. So am I really impatient? 3 years is enough to make an entire game from nothing. I'm not impatient, not at all.

We asked for stamina whip, emphasis on more poison/dragon themed abilities.

And we got a rock + promise of more focus on earth theme.

I don't think you're any good at paying attention to detail.

It's kind of ironic that you accuse me of paying no attention to detail when, in the same post, you've paid no attention to what I'm arguing for. The point I put forward is that the developers changed the look of stonefist according to a sizable DK outcry. This has nothing to do with how the ability works (i.e., it is now a spammable), which is what for some strange reason you've decided to argue for when I've said nothing to the contrary.

Regardless, I'll go up to bat for a point I didn't even put forward for your sake.

DKs have, for a while, asked for a spammable. It doesn't matter that it's not your ideal of what a spammable should be on the class, or that it's not a stamina whip. The point I'd like to make abundantly clear to you is that, despite this, they've now changed it according to what the community has asked for. This is a world of difference from the team's response before the article was released, which was to do nothing for the most part -- So no, I'm sorry, you haven't been waiting for this change for three years because there was no statement put forward or even an effort to change it in the first place. You've just been asking for three years, and now they're changing things according to what you're asking for. How is this a step in the wrong direction? How is this proof that what they wrote in the article is not what they're just now focusing on? Instead, you've decided to chastise this new leadership based on what the old combat team did or did not do and reject any changes that the new team puts forward, even if it is better than you had. It makes no sense. It's borderline insanity, and petulant to boot.

It might not be what you want now, but I think I'm relatively safe in thinking that we can see more changes later. That's the point I've been trying to get across.

First off, Dks asked in a spammable in an era where weapon spammables outside of heroic slash was pure garbage. That was already a non-issue when this spammable we asked YEARS AGO, got added. The real reason this was added was, as I said to provide stamDk a guaranteed spot in trials without making it top DPS.

As for the whole ''they changed the animation because they care and listen'' thing, They used the default stonefist animation for money saving purposes or laziness, and only after the outrage they panicked and added some flame effect to it.

They did it because quite literally EVERYONE was meme'ing about it, stonefist even got its own emote on twitch and discord. What was supposed to bring the community and developers closer, ended up splitting them apart. Literally everyone hates stonefist, and Its only you and a few others(including developers unfortunately) that can't see why.

(a little hint though; the color of the rock has not much to do with it)

It also adds salt to the wound that the step in the ''right'' direction came with massive dot cost nerfs, nerfing and standartizing of corrosive armor(previously unique stamDk ability,now available to everyone in a cheaper, stronger form, onslaught.) and nerfing the cost of fossilize making it unsustainable for stamDk.

The class flavor is absolutely ruined and you're telling me I'm insane for not being head over heels about it.

Its not just about one ability though, I wouldn't mind stonefist all that much if there were other, meaningful changes. They could have done a lot of things to make it look like they truly cared and tried. They could have reduces the cost of molten armaments, or done something about the micro-shield of fragmented shield, or add weapon crit to cauterize, g ive igneous weapons a secondary effect of sorts...

Look at all the things they could have done without changing any animations.

If you're still too dense in the skull to understand my point, I'll put it on bold text one last time just for you.

Stonefist is a spammable that exists to give stamDk a guaranteed spot in trial groups and finally be able to proc its own passives in PvE. The stun is slapped in there as a last second solution to the question of ''But what about PvP players?'' You're lying to yourself and calling me insane for pointing you at the truth, they do NOT care.