The Firesong DLC and Update 36 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of September 26:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 26

Official Discussion Thread for "Developer Deep Dive – Let’s Talk About Class Identity in ESO"

ZOS_SarahHecker
ZOS_SarahHecker
✭✭✭✭✭
06cc437e03fe46c0b142c960a5872681.jpg
This is the official discussion thread for "Developer Deep Dive – Let’s Talk About Class Identity in ESO" blog article.

ZeniMax Online Studio’s Gameplay Lead Rob Garrett shares his team’s philosophies and vision for both class identity and combat in The Elder Scrolls Online.
Edited by ZOS_SarahHecker on February 6, 2020 4:06PM
Staff Post
  • Jaimeh
    Jaimeh
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    I was terribly amused to read the redefinition of "Play the way you like" as "any class can fulfill any role: tank, DPS, support/healer" with the caveat that any class should be viable but not necessarily optimal in the role.

    They should have said that from the beginning, because their 'play as you like' stubborn assertion, gave way to 'if class A can do X thing, then why can't class B can do X thing?' demands and so on. People might have been less pleased if they had introduced more rigidity from the start, but if they had done that, as well as keep PvP and PvE separate, classes wouldn't have lost their unique flavours, nor balancing would be this vicious cycle of changes/retractions we've been having the past couple of years.
  • The_Lex
    The_Lex
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Jaimeh wrote: »
    I was terribly amused to read the redefinition of "Play the way you like" as "any class can fulfill any role: tank, DPS, support/healer" with the caveat that any class should be viable but not necessarily optimal in the role.

    They should have said that from the beginning, because their 'play as you like' stubborn assertion, gave way to 'if class A can do X thing, then why can't class B can do X thing?' demands and so on. People might have been less pleased if they had introduced more rigidity from the start, but if they had done that, as well as keep PvP and PvE separate, classes wouldn't have lost their unique flavours, nor balancing would be this vicious cycle of changes/retractions we've been having the past couple of years.

    To be entirely fair, this is what "Play the Way You Like" originally meant.
    Players just misinterpreted it to mean "Why can't my unique build do amazing in all content?"
    *snip image

    Perhaps. But I wonder if people need look at the back of the box to learn what "play as you want" means in an Elder Scrolls game.

    Edited by The_Lex on September 26, 2019 2:56PM
    PC NA | @The_Lex
    Guilds:
    Forged for War
    Art of War
    Lords of the Shaft
    Nugget Nation


    Characters (PC NA):

    Dragonknight
    Vaaljørn | Imperial Dragonknight | PvP Magicka DPS/PvE Tank | DC

    Necromancer
    Tenebris Lex | Imperial Necromancer | Magicka | DC

    Nightblade
    Dro-Zhirr the Wanderer | Khajiit Nightblade | Stamina DPS | DC
    Lex Dark-Stalker | Bosmer Nightblade | Stamina DPS | EP
    Vaanryth Fyr | Dunmer Nightblade | Stamina DPS | AD

    Sorcerer
    Worf of Sto'Vo'Kor | Orc Sorcerer | Stamina DPS | DC
    Maldarin Direnni | Altmer Sorcerer | PvP Magicka DPS / PvE Healer | EP

    Templar
    Maximus Lex | Imperial Templar | Magicka DPS | DC
    Jabs-A-Lot | Khajiit Templar | Magicka DPS | AD

    Warden
    Tyrannus Lex | Imperial Warden | Stamina DPS | EP
  • Bloodystab
    Bloodystab
    ✭✭✭✭
    5 Years since release.

    DK BIS Tank
    Templar BIS Healer

    Maybe we are all wrong and Class idenity is not where our class shines! But where our class sucks.
  • Numerikuu
    Numerikuu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Niaver wrote: »
    If each class is about to get skills that fulfil every role, we need either more skills per lines or three morphs.

    ^ This. Either that or make hybrid builds truly viable.
  • albesca
    albesca
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hashtag_ wrote: »
    This is a counter measure for the devs to make Joe The Woodelf Magsorc Healer feel like his class/spec viable for all content. It’s to make the casuals think everything is fine and dandy.

    I have a magsorc healer (a dunmer one, though) and she's perfectly viable for all the content I care to do with her: overland, delves and public dungeons when playing solo, normal dungeons in PUGs; she even went to Cyrodiil a couple of times, but I haven't got any pvp-oriented gear for her yet, so those forays went as well as I expected (quite bad, that is).
    PC EU

    Khajiit has no time for you
  • colossalvoids
    colossalvoids
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Power fantasy refers to the fictional justification of your character's power and how it’s expressed through the look and feel of abilities. (*) Every class should have a clearly defined source of power, and class abilities should reinforce that fantasy through their descriptions, animations, visual effects, and audio. When you see a player using class abilities, you should have little doubt which class they are playing, and it should look awesome!

    So what's up with stamdk new "spammable" that is just a meme right now, the one demanding 17k resources for a stun and group utility that goes away the moment stun hits. Maybe it have a cool feeling when casted, some exciting animation going on? A mudball, nice. Will it be iconic ability now? Just a little example of how well it's going on right now.

    While we're on it... What about taking "iconic" things off, like merciless / death stroke we've got now on a nightblade for example? Travel times, delayed application, wierd conditional heals and completely changed abilities from offensive to strange mix of offense with defense, while not really great at both? Add there choise between a great heal and defensive ability on morph for the full immersion. What it adds to the "awesome feel" we're getting out of it? Only animations matter now?
    All the classes have either dead skills or morphs, there is plenty of work to do but taking away already good coded and meaningful skills for an "ok" one for the sake of change isn't what people are waiting. Partially players solve any identity issues themselves but when we're running out of options already it is not looking good in any way.
    One of our mantras for ESO is "play the way you want," and in this case, it means any class can fulfill any role. (*)Currently a number of class kits don't succeed in this goal, particularly when it comes to Stamina choices and Healer builds, and those cases are prime candidates to receive additional attention and more significant changes in future updates

    And again, there are loads of unused skills that can be made great. Jungle some from one skill tree to the another if it makes sense passive/theme-wise but to butcher already well used ones is not "exciting" for older players that can't redo their build from the ground up every couple of months and feel nothing towards their previously beloved char/gameplay. Your "play the way you want!" should not just plain kill off everything what made the classes great in a first place, use unused space in non popular skills, add synergies and group utility, maybe add some missing component to the new undaunted ulti we would like to see finally, there are lots of ways without just flipping the table over old players.

    I understand that it was just "In ESO, we want you to play your way" promotion but people have expectations, it's not a beta state game for five years already. Some are still waiting while others can't be bothered anymore and those writ-masters who's on wait mode may join secong ones soon enough.
  • gepe87
    gepe87
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Learn from ESO release: look back to what classes were in the past.

    How can you can talk about uniqueness and homogenization?

    Minor ajustments
    Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General

    If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language
  • Loralai_907
    Loralai_907
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I appreciate that you want each class to have a better identity. But the changes to DK and stam sorc have missed the mark.

    As others have said, for stam sorc one of my favorite skills is Hurricane. I love how it looks, I love how it sounds, I love how it feels. Bound armaments does nothing for me. Pets do nothing for me - unless you want to give me a wicked cool and highly powerful mournful aegis as a pet or even an ultimate. Bound armaments is weeeeeeeaaaaak, it isn't worth slotting for me. Whoohooo, let me lightly tap you, are you scared of me now? NO. I don't want to feel like a light summer breeze. I'm never going to be a top tier player, and I'm ok with that, but I would appreciate that not being amplified by giving me only options that aren't powerful in any way. And in a way, that is what I see happening. Several skills I might consider are going to be doing less damage. Ok, I can live with having to adjust what skills I might use. But I want options that feel good, look good, and aren't going to amuse my enemies. Playing as a wood elf, that is already not top tier, I imagine I am already being patted on the head enough, like aww look how cute you are, pat pat. But if I at least have a few things that I can slot that take out my enemies, that makes up for it. She may be tiny, and drunk, and a zombie, but she is also used to taking out at least some of her enemies. I will not be amused if I have to shelf her before I'm ready to move on to another character for my own reasons.
    PC-NA - formerly, mommadani907
    Guild: Ayrenn's Army - Co-GM
    Guild: Weeping Angels - Officer
    Twitter: @ Loralai_907
    2nd Account - LilithZero

    CP 1500+
    Active characters:
    Fauna Rosewood ( Bosmer Stam DK - Master Crafter/AD)///Loralai Darknova (Drunken Zombie Bosmer Stam Sorc - PvP/AD)
    Lilith Darknova ( Dunmer Mag DK - Master Crafter - PvP/AD)///and roughly 1billion alts
Sign In or Register to comment.