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ClaSs IdEntify
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Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So if we can do all roles in all classes, how does a DK healer work?
Probably something like this:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-dragonknight-healer-build-pve/"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."0 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. So much for that necro tank ZO$ wanted every one to use.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Sadly endgame content is the only content where the diversification is needed. 90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps. This certainly doesn't help matters.
Diversity is another term being thrown around undefined and misused, every class is very diverse. Obviously this went over your head!
You cant play the way you want to play unless your overland questing killing weak NPCs.
"90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps" you must have missed memo, its kill or be killed! Theres no in between.
If youre going to argue for something atleast give examples and reasons to support your premise so that i can dismantle this notion you cling onto that class identity doesnt exist or build diversity.1 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. Theres seems to be more stam dps necromancers than are necromancer tanks, so much for that class identity ZO$ advocates for. A term not defined but misused by the developers.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Hmm...
Seems I was even more on the mark than I thought when I mentioned pre-built characters. Instead of opening up to the idea of class identity encompassing more than where they fit on the trinity, you doubled down and started dictating what gear they can use. You just can't seem to get it through your head that role and class are different things.
Apparently you misunderstand what class and roles are themselves!
Your comprehension level is that on a 5th graders level, So much so that you ignore reality and cherrypick forum threads in hopes of finding a topic that agrees with your ideas to make your self feel better, But of course you cling onto this notion that every class should do all roles is whats blinding you! This every class should fill any role ideology isnt going to well for ya.
Edited by KillsAllElves on September 26, 2019 9:39PM0 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. So much for that necro tank ZO$ wanted every one to use.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Sadly endgame content is the only content where the diversification is needed. 90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps. This certainly doesn't help matters.
Diversity is another term being thrown around undefined and misused, every class is very diverse. Obviously this went over your head!
You cant play the way you want to play unless your overland questing killing weak NPCs.
"90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps" you must have missed memo, its kill or be killed! Theres no in between.
If youre going to argue for something atleast give examples and reasons to support your premise so that i can dismantle this notion you cling onto that class identity doesnt exist or build diversity.
Once again, your reading comprehension has failed you. I've have never claimed that classes don't have identity (albeit a few are slightly confused at this point). My argument is to maintain class identity and to strengthen it rather than homogenize it as zos is currently trying to do. I'm trying to keep this game from becoming a watered down mess that's no longer enjoyable to play. If you think things are fine currently and don't share common interests in maintaining current class identity and improving it, we really don't have anything to discuss.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I read this dev post and it pretty much cemented my wish to leave the game.
ESO is not, has never been and clearly never will be an Elder Scrolls game - which doesn't have any of this class identity crap or limitations. The long promised and oft teased spellcrafting is clearly not coming to morph ESO into a proper ES game.
Thanks for that clarification.
Identity wise, I'm super warden.
Ability wise, they have a few good ones, but more than half of them I have absolutely no use for. None. Nada. Zip. That makes playing them boring as hell.
Identity wise, I'm super not necromancer. I never play them in any game. I like pets but am not into the whole death thing.
Ability wise, ESO's necro is way better than warden. Like many others I think they should have a perma pet but as they are, they're fun to play and all of their abilities are useful.
But playing mine (as healers) during the recent imperial event highlighted how much I really hate the game. Functionally they were fantastic. I couldn't fault them functionally but I felt no connection to them thematically. Nothing about them is me. Their great functionality only reinforced my disappointment with wardens.
I want the damn indrik mounts and am still horse feeding my now probably never to be played necros so I'll keep playing minimally at least til the end of the year. But after that I want a long break. You have great story - a lot of which I still haven't seen - but as an MMO there's not much joy in it.0 -
xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, This was when Classes still had very good Identity and awesome mechanics. In my opinion the prime of combat gameplay
https://youtu.be/zzUqacpDC3A
ESO 1.5 btw0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. Theres seems to be more stam dps necromancers than are necromancer tanks, so much for that class identity ZO$ advocates for. A term not defined but misused by the developers.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Hmm...
Seems I was even more on the mark than I thought when I mentioned pre-built characters. Instead of opening up to the idea of class identity encompassing more than where they fit on the trinity, you doubled down and started dictating what gear they can use. You just can't seem to get it through your head that role and class are different things.
Apparently you misunderstand what class and roles are themselves!
I don't think so. If class and role are interchangeable, then why bother even having more than three? Why not force everyone to pick from three pre-generated characters called "Mr. Tank", "Ms. Healer", and "Mr. DPS"? Why do groups look for a tank rather than a DK? Or a healer instead of a Templar?"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."1 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭xMovingTarget wrote: »Well, This was when Classes still had very good Identity and awesome mechanics. In my opinion the prime of combat gameplayhttps://youtu.be/zzUqacpDC3A
ESO 1.5 btw
Good times.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭remember when Inferno actually was a cool toggle ability that nonstp drained your magicka for area dot+critchance and put a fire circle around your feet. Instead of a boring orb floating around you shooting at random targets.1 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. Theres seems to be more stam dps necromancers than are necromancer tanks, so much for that class identity ZO$ advocates for. A term not defined but misused by the developers.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Hmm...
Seems I was even more on the mark than I thought when I mentioned pre-built characters. Instead of opening up to the idea of class identity encompassing more than where they fit on the trinity, you doubled down and started dictating what gear they can use. You just can't seem to get it through your head that role and class are different things.
Apparently you misunderstand what class and roles are themselves!
I don't think so. If class and role are interchangeable, then why bother even having more than three? Why not force everyone to pick from three pre-generated characters called "Mr. Tank", "Ms. Healer", and "Mr. DPS"? Why do groups look for a tank rather than a DK? Or a healer instead of a Templar?
When players LF tank most healers and tanks that respond are DKs and templars, [snip]
[edited for non-constructive comment]Edited by ZOS_RogerJ on September 26, 2019 11:24PM0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. Theres seems to be more stam dps necromancers than are necromancer tanks, so much for that class identity ZO$ advocates for. A term not defined but misused by the developers.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Hmm...
Seems I was even more on the mark than I thought when I mentioned pre-built characters. Instead of opening up to the idea of class identity encompassing more than where they fit on the trinity, you doubled down and started dictating what gear they can use. You just can't seem to get it through your head that role and class are different things.
Apparently you misunderstand what class and roles are themselves!
I don't think so. If class and role are interchangeable, then why bother even having more than three? Why not force everyone to pick from three pre-generated characters called "Mr. Tank", "Ms. Healer", and "Mr. DPS"? Why do groups look for a tank rather than a DK? Or a healer instead of a Templar?
When players LF tank most healers and tanks that respond are DKs and templars, you deserve a cookie for trying.🤣
But they're not looking for a DK or a templar. They're looking for a tank or a healer. Having a DK tank respond does not negate that fact, nor does it eliminate all the sorcerers and wardens out there."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."0 -
valeriiya✭✭✭✭✭
✭So if we can do all roles in all classes, how does a DK healer work?
Probably something like this:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-dragonknight-healer-build-pve/
Thank you. I guess I should've worded it better: how has it worked out for someone actually playing it? Someone that's not Alcast.1 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. So much for that necro tank ZO$ wanted every one to use.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Sadly endgame content is the only content where the diversification is needed. 90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps. This certainly doesn't help matters.
Diversity is another term being thrown around undefined and misused, every class is very diverse. Obviously this went over your head!
You cant play the way you want to play unless your overland questing killing weak NPCs.
"90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps" you must have missed memo, its kill or be killed! Theres no in between.
If youre going to argue for something atleast give examples and reasons to support your premise so that i can dismantle this notion you cling onto that class identity doesnt exist or build diversity.
Once again, your reading comprehension has failed you. I've have never claimed that classes don't have identity (albeit a few are slightly confused at this point). My argument is to maintain class identity and to strengthen it rather than homogenize it as zos is currently trying to do. I'm trying to keep this game from becoming a watered down mess that's no longer enjoyable to play. If you think things are fine currently and don't share common interests in maintaining current class identity and improving it, we really don't have anything to discuss.
Once more you failed to comprehend something so simple! Again this went way over your head.
With the current state of the game DKs tanks and templar healers are favored and most played in terms as tanking and healing goes. This is because of class specific abilities said classes have that the others dont have! its that simple. If you want all classes to fill tanking and healing roles than than YOU should whine to the developers at taking a look at all class role abilities and making them similar or near equal to one another -And this is where class identity gets thrown out the window trying to make every class role equal-.
Talking to you is like talking to a wall, you lack the skills in reasoning, your "arguments"lack clarifications and definitions of terms you misuse including examples to support your premises. You cling onto a biased notion which enables you to ignore reality!
0 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Remember, it’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread.
Does ZOS even adhere to those enforced standards? The PTS forum is a barren wasteland in terms of ZOS feedback.
On topic: ESO is going the way of WoW BfA in terms of class identity = homogenization and simplification, that way ZOS has fewer values to tweak when attempting to balance the game.
I dunna, Wow classes at their most homogenized still feel 1000% more unique then ESO classes at their peak of individual identity.2 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. So much for that necro tank ZO$ wanted every one to use.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Sadly endgame content is the only content where the diversification is needed. 90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps. This certainly doesn't help matters.
Diversity is another term being thrown around undefined and misused, every class is very diverse. Obviously this went over your head!
You cant play the way you want to play unless your overland questing killing weak NPCs.
"90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps" you must have missed memo, its kill or be killed! Theres no in between.
If youre going to argue for something atleast give examples and reasons to support your premise so that i can dismantle this notion you cling onto that class identity doesnt exist or build diversity.
Once again, your reading comprehension has failed you. I've have never claimed that classes don't have identity (albeit a few are slightly confused at this point). My argument is to maintain class identity and to strengthen it rather than homogenize it as zos is currently trying to do. I'm trying to keep this game from becoming a watered down mess that's no longer enjoyable to play. If you think things are fine currently and don't share common interests in maintaining current class identity and improving it, we really don't have anything to discuss.
Once more you failed to comprehend something so simple! Again this went way over your head.
With the current state of the game DKs tanks and templar healers are favored and most played in terms as tanking and healing goes. This is because of class specific abilities said classes have that the others dont have! its that simple. If you want all classes to fill tanking and healing roles than than YOU should whine to the developers at taking a look at all class role abilities and making them similar or near equal to one another -And this is where class identity gets thrown out the window trying to make every class role equal-.
Talking to you is like talking to a wall, you lack the skills in reasoning, your "arguments"lack clarifications and definitions of terms you misuse including examples to support your premises. You cling onto a biased notion which enables you to ignore reality!
First, tell me what the the definition of homogenization is. Now read this statement slowly: I do not want classes to be homogenized. Repeat, I do not want classes to be the same, I do not want every class to fill every role. Now read your comment above. Now you realize that I'm the one talking to a brick wall.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
This. Utility wise, WoW classes may be homogenized but rotation and overall gameplay wise? Not in the slightest. A enhancement shaman plays much more differently than an assassination rogue. Both are dual-wielding melee classes. Now compare that to the dual-wielding melee classes in ESO.daedalusAI wrote: »ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Remember, it’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread.
Does ZOS even adhere to those enforced standards? The PTS forum is a barren wasteland in terms of ZOS feedback.
On topic: ESO is going the way of WoW BfA in terms of class identity = homogenization and simplification, that way ZOS has fewer values to tweak when attempting to balance the game.
I dunna, Wow classes at their most homogenized still feel 1000% more unique then ESO classes at their peak of individual identity.Edited by Facefister on September 27, 2019 1:03AM2 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seeing Dotzz talking about DK on PTS makes me feels bad, i don't even play with DK, but i know how Dotzz likes it... just sad bro
I haven’t seen Dotzz yet but Fengrush went BONKERS when he reviewed the PTS patch notes. I wanted to skim it but watched it all.
Insightful? Hilarious? Nah it was kind of sad when you remembered he was talking about a game we all like...or liked.2 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Play as you want... as long as you don't expect to be good on a StamDK.
I'm a tad upset... I've grown quite fond of my StamDK. Might see if I can still retrieve something.0 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lol the entire patch notes was like a stone fist to the face.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.2 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. So much for that necro tank ZO$ wanted every one to use.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Sadly endgame content is the only content where the diversification is needed. 90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps. This certainly doesn't help matters.
Diversity is another term being thrown around undefined and misused, every class is very diverse. Obviously this went over your head!
You cant play the way you want to play unless your overland questing killing weak NPCs.
"90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps" you must have missed memo, its kill or be killed! Theres no in between.
If youre going to argue for something atleast give examples and reasons to support your premise so that i can dismantle this notion you cling onto that class identity doesnt exist or build diversity.
Once again, your reading comprehension has failed you. I've have never claimed that classes don't have identity (albeit a few are slightly confused at this point). My argument is to maintain class identity and to strengthen it rather than homogenize it as zos is currently trying to do. I'm trying to keep this game from becoming a watered down mess that's no longer enjoyable to play. If you think things are fine currently and don't share common interests in maintaining current class identity and improving it, we really don't have anything to discuss.
Once more you failed to comprehend something so simple! Again this went way over your head.
With the current state of the game DKs tanks and templar healers are favored and most played in terms as tanking and healing goes. This is because of class specific abilities said classes have that the others dont have! its that simple. If you want all classes to fill tanking and healing roles than than YOU should whine to the developers at taking a look at all class role abilities and making them similar or near equal to one another -And this is where class identity gets thrown out the window trying to make every class role equal-.
Talking to you is like talking to a wall, you lack the skills in reasoning, your "arguments"lack clarifications and definitions of terms you misuse including examples to support your premises. You cling onto a biased notion which enables you to ignore reality!
First, tell me what the the definition of homogenization is. Now read this statement slowly: I do not want classes to be homogenized. Repeat, I do not want classes to be the same, I do not want every class to fill every role. Now read your comment above. Now you realize that I'm the one talking to a brick wall.
Homogenization is making all class the have the same abilities and fulfill all roles, this is a watered down over saturated lazy method of developing classes and tosses class identity out the window.
BIS tank will always be DK
BIS healer will always be a templar
Your recent response states that you dont want eso classes to be homogenized, if thats truly what you want than you do agree with all of my responses on this thread... All youre doing is arguing for the sake of arguing. It as if im talking to a 4 year old.
However i remember it was you in another post 2 weeks ago that called for all classes to fulfill all roles.
1 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. So much for that necro tank ZO$ wanted every one to use.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Sadly endgame content is the only content where the diversification is needed. 90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps. This certainly doesn't help matters.
Diversity is another term being thrown around undefined and misused, every class is very diverse. Obviously this went over your head!
You cant play the way you want to play unless your overland questing killing weak NPCs.
"90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps" you must have missed memo, its kill or be killed! Theres no in between.
If youre going to argue for something atleast give examples and reasons to support your premise so that i can dismantle this notion you cling onto that class identity doesnt exist or build diversity.
Once again, your reading comprehension has failed you. I've have never claimed that classes don't have identity (albeit a few are slightly confused at this point). My argument is to maintain class identity and to strengthen it rather than homogenize it as zos is currently trying to do. I'm trying to keep this game from becoming a watered down mess that's no longer enjoyable to play. If you think things are fine currently and don't share common interests in maintaining current class identity and improving it, we really don't have anything to discuss.
Once more you failed to comprehend something so simple! Again this went way over your head.
With the current state of the game DKs tanks and templar healers are favored and most played in terms as tanking and healing goes. This is because of class specific abilities said classes have that the others dont have! its that simple. If you want all classes to fill tanking and healing roles than than YOU should whine to the developers at taking a look at all class role abilities and making them similar or near equal to one another -And this is where class identity gets thrown out the window trying to make every class role equal-.
Talking to you is like talking to a wall, you lack the skills in reasoning, your "arguments"lack clarifications and definitions of terms you misuse including examples to support your premises. You cling onto a biased notion which enables you to ignore reality!
First, tell me what the the definition of homogenization is. Now read this statement slowly: I do not want classes to be homogenized. Repeat, I do not want classes to be the same, I do not want every class to fill every role. Now read your comment above. Now you realize that I'm the one talking to a brick wall.
Homogenization is making all class the have the same abilities and fulfill all roles, this is a watered down over saturated lazy method of developing classes and tosses class identity out the window.
BIS tank will always be DK
BIS healer will always be a templar
Your recent response states that you dont want eso classes to be homogenized, if thats truly what you want than you do agree with all of my responses on this thread... All youre doing is arguing for the sake of arguing. It as if im talking to a 4 year old.
However i remember it was you in another post 2 weeks ago that called for all classes to fulfill all roles.
Nope you missed the mark again. You cherry picked from my posts what you wanted to read and are so vested in your false premise that you can't even see that we believe practically the same thing. Which I find hilarious to be honest. If you had bothered to actually read the statement in which you claim that I said that all classes should fill all roles, you'd realize that you grossly misinterpreted what I said. If you had paid attention you might have realized that I was talking about skill homogenization and how massive buffs/nerfs are not healthy for this game. I think it would be healthier to focus in the 5 to 10% range. See the ~60 percent nerf to damage over time abilities on the pts for a reference. I truly believe a balance for pve and pvp could have been reached with a 5 to 10% nerf to dot potency... not +60%. That being said, I believe that pvp and pve balancing should be separate but that's another topic for another day.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. So much for that necro tank ZO$ wanted every one to use.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Sadly endgame content is the only content where the diversification is needed. 90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps. This certainly doesn't help matters.
Diversity is another term being thrown around undefined and misused, every class is very diverse. Obviously this went over your head!
You cant play the way you want to play unless your overland questing killing weak NPCs.
"90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps" you must have missed memo, its kill or be killed! Theres no in between.
If youre going to argue for something atleast give examples and reasons to support your premise so that i can dismantle this notion you cling onto that class identity doesnt exist or build diversity.
Once again, your reading comprehension has failed you. I've have never claimed that classes don't have identity (albeit a few are slightly confused at this point). My argument is to maintain class identity and to strengthen it rather than homogenize it as zos is currently trying to do. I'm trying to keep this game from becoming a watered down mess that's no longer enjoyable to play. If you think things are fine currently and don't share common interests in maintaining current class identity and improving it, we really don't have anything to discuss.
Once more you failed to comprehend something so simple! Again this went way over your head.
With the current state of the game DKs tanks and templar healers are favored and most played in terms as tanking and healing goes. This is because of class specific abilities said classes have that the others dont have! its that simple. If you want all classes to fill tanking and healing roles than than YOU should whine to the developers at taking a look at all class role abilities and making them similar or near equal to one another -And this is where class identity gets thrown out the window trying to make every class role equal-.
Talking to you is like talking to a wall, you lack the skills in reasoning, your "arguments"lack clarifications and definitions of terms you misuse including examples to support your premises. You cling onto a biased notion which enables you to ignore reality!
First, tell me what the the definition of homogenization is. Now read this statement slowly: I do not want classes to be homogenized. Repeat, I do not want classes to be the same, I do not want every class to fill every role. Now read your comment above. Now you realize that I'm the one talking to a brick wall.
Homogenization is making all class the have the same abilities and fulfill all roles, this is a watered down over saturated lazy method of developing classes and tosses class identity out the window.
BIS tank will always be DK
BIS healer will always be a templar
And?
You still don't get it. Is this really all you see in DKs and Templars? "A DK is a tank." Ok, but what else? What is it about DKs that make them different from "warrior" or "paladin" or "target dummy"? What is it about Templars that set them apart from witch doctors or alchemists or physicians or dentists?
"Tank" is a job. Not a class. Just because sorcerers or wardens or even night blades can tank doesn't mean DKs have lost their identity."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."3 -
A_Silverius✭✭✭✭✭Same with RaCiAl PaSsIvEs.All over Tamriel, theres a sudden spike in Bosmers getting caught for their crimes. A sad day indeed... #FightForYourRite Give Bosmers back our stealth!1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A_Silverius wrote: »Same with RaCiAl PaSsIvEs.
When I read the old racial passives, they feel like each race is unique.
When I read the new racial passives, it feels like the copy of the last race I just read about.
I miss % vs static numbers. It meant your passives felt more powerful as you level. Now they are just meh.1 -
Legendry✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
They did do that, before warden came in.
Dk = tank
Templar = healer
NB = stamdps
Sorc = magdps
But players complained in the forums, saying they shouldn't be stuck in those roles. So devs acceded. And they got flak. So basically the players themselves wanted the change but when it did came, they still complained. Figures.
This man speaks the truth. Ye all are victims to yer own fancy. It's like politics. Some far liberal thinks change is always good, change comes, not good, has to either back and apologize or keep his ideology supreme, so pushes forward, more changes, still bad. Starts a downward spiral. That is eso right now. A house full of contradictions.0 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fengrush know eso well and worth listening to zos.Edited by Deathlord92 on September 28, 2019 5:57PM0 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭RavenSworn wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
They did do that, before warden came in.
Dk = tank
Templar = healer
NB = stamdps
Sorc = magdps
But players complained in the forums, saying they shouldn't be stuck in those roles. So devs acceded. And they got flak. So basically the players themselves wanted the change but when it did came, they still complained. Figures.
This man speaks the truth. Ye all are victims to yer own fancy. It's like politics. Some far liberal thinks change is always good, change comes, not good, has to either back and apologize or keep his ideology supreme, so pushes forward, more changes, still bad. Starts a downward spiral. That is eso right now. A house full of contradictions.
You mean the vocal minority gets their way? Trust me when I say a lot of people don't want the game to keep going in the direction it's going. Sadly most of them don't have the cojones to stick it to zos either. I guarantee zos would figure out things quick if the vocal minority was the only thing keeping this game afloat and paying their salaries.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.1
