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ClaSs IdEntify
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usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »The fact that Dottz and Fengrush want stun/knockback back on dizzy swing tells me they don't give a *** about class identity..
Read this post..and see how I stripped my class identity for dizzy swing..
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/492936/for-all-crying-about-dizzying-swing/p1
Imagine playing a class in pvp that doesn't have a proper/practical class cc. Imagine losing one of the few options you had from weapon skill lines to be replaced with throwing a poop rock that costs 20k resources for a stun. At least dks got the poop rock. A few of the others didn't get so lucky.
Umm fossilize ?
Yeah good luck keeping that and volatile up on a stamdk.
Oh no using magicka based abilities on stamina characters in PvP. How new and unconvetnional. By the same logic You can say to stamblade "yeah good luck keeping shade up while also using fear and cloak". Using magicka abilities on stam setups is nothing new many classes have ben doing it for years now and dk is actually one of the better classes for that since ultis restore him also magicka. Also when it comes to fossilize it's very decent stun since it can never fail to stun someone so You wont waste magicka.
Still doesn't account for the inconsistencies created between specs that have cc's that can be used on cooldown versus those who don't.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.2 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmguy1234 wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Remember, it’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread.
Does ZOS even adhere to those enforced standards? The PTS forum is a barren wasteland in terms of ZOS feedback.
On topic: ESO is going the way of WoW BfA in terms of class identity = homogenization and simplification, that way ZOS has fewer values to tweak when attempting to balance the game.
Honestly, they are balancing the game backwards. Homogenization should be done during beta testing. Identity should be added through patches/dlc/etc. Also seeing skill potency adjustments greater than +/- 5 to 10% are just ludicrous.
I really agree with the last point. Huge nerfs and buffs are so illogical. Instead of tuning down they get to gutting. A great example is pet sorc. I don’t care for the style, but it went from worthless for years, to buffed, buffed again, to back to worthless. It’s illlogical at this point1 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emmagoldman wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Remember, it’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread.
Does ZOS even adhere to those enforced standards? The PTS forum is a barren wasteland in terms of ZOS feedback.
On topic: ESO is going the way of WoW BfA in terms of class identity = homogenization and simplification, that way ZOS has fewer values to tweak when attempting to balance the game.
Honestly, they are balancing the game backwards. Homogenization should be done during beta testing. Identity should be added through patches/dlc/etc. Also seeing skill potency adjustments greater than +/- 5 to 10% are just ludicrous.
I really agree with the last point. Huge nerfs and buffs are so illogical. Instead of tuning down they get to gutting. A great example is pet sorc. I don’t care for the style, but it went from worthless for years, to buffed, buffed again, to back to worthless. It’s illlogical at this point
It's like why does the pts even exist at this point?Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.3 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Emmagoldman wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Remember, it’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread.
Does ZOS even adhere to those enforced standards? The PTS forum is a barren wasteland in terms of ZOS feedback.
On topic: ESO is going the way of WoW BfA in terms of class identity = homogenization and simplification, that way ZOS has fewer values to tweak when attempting to balance the game.
Honestly, they are balancing the game backwards. Homogenization should be done during beta testing. Identity should be added through patches/dlc/etc. Also seeing skill potency adjustments greater than +/- 5 to 10% are just ludicrous.
I really agree with the last point. Huge nerfs and buffs are so illogical. Instead of tuning down they get to gutting. A great example is pet sorc. I don’t care for the style, but it went from worthless for years, to buffed, buffed again, to back to worthless. It’s illlogical at this point
It's like why does the pts even exist at this point?
Should have been a %20 to 30 nerf to dot damage, up to %60 is ridicilous.0 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »Emmagoldman wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Remember, it’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread.
Does ZOS even adhere to those enforced standards? The PTS forum is a barren wasteland in terms of ZOS feedback.
On topic: ESO is going the way of WoW BfA in terms of class identity = homogenization and simplification, that way ZOS has fewer values to tweak when attempting to balance the game.
Honestly, they are balancing the game backwards. Homogenization should be done during beta testing. Identity should be added through patches/dlc/etc. Also seeing skill potency adjustments greater than +/- 5 to 10% are just ludicrous.
I really agree with the last point. Huge nerfs and buffs are so illogical. Instead of tuning down they get to gutting. A great example is pet sorc. I don’t care for the style, but it went from worthless for years, to buffed, buffed again, to back to worthless. It’s illlogical at this point
It's like why does the pts even exist at this point?
Should have been a %20 to 30 nerf to dot damage, up to %60 is ridicilous.
Not sure the exact values but dots should be treated as a secondary damage source not a primary damage source. Have class based dots be slightly more powerful than dots accessible to everyone. Even live dot damage would be fine if it wasn't allowed to stack, at least in pvp.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Since animation cancelling isn't fixed why do you want a better animation for stone fist?
Can't you just cancel the animation if you don't like it?
Edited by Delparis on September 25, 2019 2:51PM0 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since animation cancelling isn't fixed why do you want a better animation for stone fist?
Can't you just cancel the animation if you don't like it?
The animation isn't the main issue (it's more of an added aggravation). The main issue is that you have to use a ridiculous amount of resources for a stun. Also animation cancelling doesn't allow you to bypass the gcd system anyways. So, even if you were to weave the skill in with other attacks, you are looking at a minimum of 10 seconds for a stun.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.3 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »Emmagoldman wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Remember, it’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread.
Does ZOS even adhere to those enforced standards? The PTS forum is a barren wasteland in terms of ZOS feedback.
On topic: ESO is going the way of WoW BfA in terms of class identity = homogenization and simplification, that way ZOS has fewer values to tweak when attempting to balance the game.
Honestly, they are balancing the game backwards. Homogenization should be done during beta testing. Identity should be added through patches/dlc/etc. Also seeing skill potency adjustments greater than +/- 5 to 10% are just ludicrous.
I really agree with the last point. Huge nerfs and buffs are so illogical. Instead of tuning down they get to gutting. A great example is pet sorc. I don’t care for the style, but it went from worthless for years, to buffed, buffed again, to back to worthless. It’s illlogical at this point
It's like why does the pts even exist at this point?
Should have been a %20 to 30 nerf to dot damage, up to %60 is ridicilous.
Not sure the exact values but dots should be treated as a secondary damage source not a primary damage source. Have class based dots be slightly more powerful than dots accessible to everyone. Even live dot damage would be fine if it wasn't allowed to stack, at least in pvp.
One problem the dev team does not realize is that nobody even cried about Dk dots other than the fact that their application damage is strong. I think the 41 meter range dots doing as high damage as class dots was the real problem.1 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »Emmagoldman wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Remember, it’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread.
Does ZOS even adhere to those enforced standards? The PTS forum is a barren wasteland in terms of ZOS feedback.
On topic: ESO is going the way of WoW BfA in terms of class identity = homogenization and simplification, that way ZOS has fewer values to tweak when attempting to balance the game.
Honestly, they are balancing the game backwards. Homogenization should be done during beta testing. Identity should be added through patches/dlc/etc. Also seeing skill potency adjustments greater than +/- 5 to 10% are just ludicrous.
I really agree with the last point. Huge nerfs and buffs are so illogical. Instead of tuning down they get to gutting. A great example is pet sorc. I don’t care for the style, but it went from worthless for years, to buffed, buffed again, to back to worthless. It’s illlogical at this point
It's like why does the pts even exist at this point?
Should have been a %20 to 30 nerf to dot damage, up to %60 is ridicilous.
Not sure the exact values but dots should be treated as a secondary damage source not a primary damage source. Have class based dots be slightly more powerful than dots accessible to everyone. Even live dot damage would be fine if it wasn't allowed to stack, at least in pvp.
One problem the dev team does not realize is that nobody even cried about Dk dots other than the fact that their application damage is strong. I think the 41 meter range dots doing as high damage as class dots was the real problem.
Exactly. Having slightly stronger class based dots also helps with the current class identity issues.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The stone fist is one of the very few good changes in this patch, the only thing is that it needs a better animation, the fist should look better in other words, not necessarily the launching animation.
Don't know why people are complaining about this, people asked for a stam dk spammable for years, well now you have it, and it procs your minor buff, which is exactly what it should do as a stam dk.Edited by JinMori on September 25, 2019 3:27PM0 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »Emmagoldman wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Remember, it’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread.
Does ZOS even adhere to those enforced standards? The PTS forum is a barren wasteland in terms of ZOS feedback.
On topic: ESO is going the way of WoW BfA in terms of class identity = homogenization and simplification, that way ZOS has fewer values to tweak when attempting to balance the game.
Honestly, they are balancing the game backwards. Homogenization should be done during beta testing. Identity should be added through patches/dlc/etc. Also seeing skill potency adjustments greater than +/- 5 to 10% are just ludicrous.
I really agree with the last point. Huge nerfs and buffs are so illogical. Instead of tuning down they get to gutting. A great example is pet sorc. I don’t care for the style, but it went from worthless for years, to buffed, buffed again, to back to worthless. It’s illlogical at this point
It's like why does the pts even exist at this point?
Should have been a %20 to 30 nerf to dot damage, up to %60 is ridicilous.
Not sure the exact values but dots should be treated as a secondary damage source not a primary damage source. Have class based dots be slightly more powerful than dots accessible to everyone. Even live dot damage would be fine if it wasn't allowed to stack, at least in pvp.
One problem the dev team does not realize is that nobody even cried about Dk dots other than the fact that their application damage is strong. I think the 41 meter range dots doing as high damage as class dots was the real problem.
Exactly. Having slightly stronger class based dots also helps with the current class identity issues.
Its more of an issue with melee versus range , rather than class vs non-class. If they want Dk dots to be powerful that can be done with good secondary effects given to those dots.
For example noxious breath is good because it gives major fracture, claws used to be good because it was a very cheap , hard hitting dot(not anymore). engulfing flames is good because it has the unique %10 flame damage debuff. Embers is good because it has a heal(though that also took a major cost nerf)
If they're stubborn about making ranged and melee dots just as effective then melee ones deserve stronger secondary effects, and no Gilliam, applying poisoned on cast is not my idea of strong secondary effect.Edited by Ragnarock41 on September 25, 2019 8:15PM1 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »Emmagoldman wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Remember, it’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread.
Does ZOS even adhere to those enforced standards? The PTS forum is a barren wasteland in terms of ZOS feedback.
On topic: ESO is going the way of WoW BfA in terms of class identity = homogenization and simplification, that way ZOS has fewer values to tweak when attempting to balance the game.
Honestly, they are balancing the game backwards. Homogenization should be done during beta testing. Identity should be added through patches/dlc/etc. Also seeing skill potency adjustments greater than +/- 5 to 10% are just ludicrous.
I really agree with the last point. Huge nerfs and buffs are so illogical. Instead of tuning down they get to gutting. A great example is pet sorc. I don’t care for the style, but it went from worthless for years, to buffed, buffed again, to back to worthless. It’s illlogical at this point
It's like why does the pts even exist at this point?
Should have been a %20 to 30 nerf to dot damage, up to %60 is ridicilous.
Not sure the exact values but dots should be treated as a secondary damage source not a primary damage source. Have class based dots be slightly more powerful than dots accessible to everyone. Even live dot damage would be fine if it wasn't allowed to stack, at least in pvp.
One problem the dev team does not realize is that nobody even cried about Dk dots other than the fact that their application damage is strong. I think the 41 meter range dots doing as high damage as class dots was the real problem.
Exactly. Having slightly stronger class based dots also helps with the current class identity issues.
Its more of an issue with melee versus range , rather than class vs non-class. If they want Dk dots to be powerful that can be done with good secondary effects given to those dots.
For example noxious breath is good because it gives major fracture, claws used to be good because it was a very cheap , hard hitting dot(not anymore). engulfing flames is good because it has the unique %10 flame damage debuff. Embers is good because it has a heal(though that also took a major cost nerf)
If they're stubborn about making ranged and melee dots just as effective then melee ones deserve stronger secondary effects, and no Gilliam, applying poisoned on cast is not my idea of strong secondary effect.
Very good points.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
MaxwellC✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lol I've been sounding the bloody alarms about Stam DKs since 2016 & ever since they talked about having class reps, countless threads and comments about how the identity of the class is to stand its ground and dish make a comeback.
So many things gone like passives that scaled better, FoO AoE, execute, etc.Edited by MaxwellC on September 25, 2019 9:44PM不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell0 -
Lasinagol✭✭✭Bound Armaments for the sorc go a long way into class identity, imo. It is similar to the Nightblade skill, but different enough to make it unique to sorc while not just copying and pasting it.
Why can't the DK's Stonefist function like a Stamina type Crystal Frags?Altmer Supremist, filthy spell slinger since Nerevar was assasinated1 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
1 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."1 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the Other classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game which is dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
I will give examples-
The Dk should be a tank and have specific abilities for dungeon and trial content, not a hybrid of a pyromage and tank, if ZO$ wanted a fire mage they should have made one to begin with.
The Healer like the tank should have specific abilities for the designated role not a collage of healing, stam and magic damage abilities.
The DPS classes should be elemental or physical damage such as brawler, mage/caster and archer classes what ever names would be appropriate none of which should be able to use magic or stam morphs and each class utilize a specific weapon. =uniqueness!Edited by KillsAllElves on September 26, 2019 3:22AM0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."2 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
For tanking its booboo butter, for mag dps theyre lame for stam dps my group likes it. The eso necromancer is better at dps rather than healing or tanking, eso necromancer is a classic example of confused class identity like the warden. Zo$ should have just given the necromancer all damage abilities instead of all 3 role abilities or atleast a name change.
I have to edit this. The necromancer feels like a whimsical novelty at best!Edited by KillsAllElves on September 26, 2019 3:59AM0 -
ArcVelarian✭✭✭✭✭It's pretty obvious that ZOS just wants DK players to delete their toons and reroll Wardens.
Murphy's Law of PvP : If it can be abused and or exploited, it will be abused and or exploited.0 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
But I haven't derailed my own thread. The whole purpose of this thread was an open conversation about how people feel like classes are losing their identity and that we need to voice our opinion to hold onto that identity and hone it rather than allowing homogenization where every class can do every role like zos seems to be pushing. Everyone in here seems to get that but you.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."1 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
But I haven't derailed my own thread. The whole purpose of this thread was an open conversation about how people feel like classes are losing their identity and that we need to voice our opinion to hold onto that identity and hone it rather than allowing homogenization where every class can do every role like zos seems to be pushing. Everyone in here seems to get that but you.
Zo$ advocates for every class to fill every role seems not to be going over smoothly with players, but feels like a cheap excuse of not prioritizing class roles to every individual class along with a lack of imagination, with all the greif players post on the forums about how bad certain classes are at certain roles isnt going too well for the developers intent of "every class should fulfill every role" plan.
Groups are still running and favor templar healers and DK tanks over the other classes!0 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. Theres seems to be more stam dps necromancers than are necromancer tanks, so much for that class identity ZO$ advocates for. A term not defined but misused by the developers.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Edited by KillsAllElves on September 26, 2019 11:47AM0 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. So much for that necro tank ZO$ wanted every one to use.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Sadly endgame content is the only content where the diversification is needed. 90+% of this game's content can be done with just dps. This certainly doesn't help matters.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »
. ~ This has been already many times, warden and necromancer classes are not sure what theyre supposed to be.usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »The stonefist rework has to be on of the dumbest things zo$ implemented. That is just beyond stupid.
As far as this notion that classes are lacking identity is ridiculous and shows how truly ignorant players are.
With the exception of necromancer and warden, they both seem confused on what theyre supposed to be.
Not apples to apples. It's one thing to play a class that never really had an identity to begin with versus one who was truly unique and has been nerfed to utter mediocrity.
The Dk has class identity. The problem is stupid nerfs and reworks. Still the word identity is misused and misunderstood, players really should come up with a better argument.
Like I said before, gaining and losing identity are two different things. There are definitely more than a few specs trying to hold onto what little they have left of their former identities.
Trying to have every class able to fill any role is beyond stupid..
each class should have a specific role and should stick to their roles. Thats class identity.
See you've moved onto a different subject entirely. Anyways having a unique class identity =/= homogenized goo that zos is trying to make every class. It means well defined roles that it can do better than any other class. That doesn't mean the other classes can't do that role, they just aren't as optimal/ efficient at it.
You clearly missed the point.
The feeling is mutual.
Nice cop out, you proved my point!
There's no point in arguing with a person who has no interest in maintaining and honing classes with identify and is only concerned with classes that don't have a well defined identity because I'd literally be derailing my own thread. ~ The video at question was streamers laughing at the DK stone fist change and this is what i was talking about... The DK has class identity. You already derailed your own thread. You have absolutely zero skills in arguing for a specific subject. Its obvious thAt all my responses went over your head probably because you cling onto this notion that every class has no "identity" bandwagon because it is fashionable to do so. Youre arguing for the sake of arguing. You like so many others misuse the term "identity" on the forums.
I'd be more than glad to comment on how I believe that classes like warden and necro should have well defined roles if you were to create a thread on that topic.
Class identity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with roles though. Roles are simply a generic descriptor for what function a character will perform within a group dynamic. Class identity comes from how the character goes about fulfilling that function.
Class identity - a specific class that fits 1 role that offers unique and original abilities that stand out or differ from the classes, not a reskin nor a class cobbled together from other pre existing classes with renamed abilities.
One thing that ZO$ should never have done is allow or enable all classes to have the abilty to heal to tank or to Deal damage instead there should be specific class abilities that are only effective for each content in the game whihch dictated by the class role and not be able to do other roles this would make for specific identity.
So, a carbon copy of every other MMO on the market and the exact opposite of what characters are in the Elder Scrolls series then?
Seriously though, you really need to stop thinking of classes and roles as being interchangeable terms. Even in other games, the thing that defines a paladin or a priest or a mage is not limited to what they do. It's how they do it. Look at necromancers and ask yourself just what is a necromancer. The answer is not "they do x damage per second" or "they can resist x amount of damage". It's raising the dead and commanding the energies of death to achieve their goals. Being a tank or a healer or a DPS is just a vague job description and nothing more.
Eso necromancer seems more like an illusionist rather than a necromancer! Video game necromancy- raise the dead to fight for you and your allies to kill the "enemy", not give you a massive health increase and change your apearance.........
Why not?
No, seriously, why not? Why can't necromancers gain a massive health increase and appearance change? In fact, just off the top of my head I can think of at least one other game that does exactly that. Not to mention the very concept of necromancy is that people who practice it are trying to conquer and control death itself, which would hint that with enough study they might become just a tad difficult to actually kill.
See, you're still confusing class with role. You need to stop stubbornly insisting that classes should exclusively either deal damage, soak damage or heal. "You're putting such extreme limits on class identity doing that that you may as well just be picking from three pre-built characters that only come with five pre-selected skills and are forced to use a specific type of weapon and armor".
~i cant believe what i just read 🤨..... A damage dealer better not show up with a SnB in a vet trial or dungeon group,
Light armor is meant for mag dps and healers, medium armor is meant for physical/stam dps heavy armor is meant for the tanks. So yeah it does matter what armor and weapon a role picked uses! End gamd aint for role playing.
If thats the case than every class who decides to tank should have atleast one ability that gives them a massive health pool.
Still DK tanks and templar healers are favored over necromancer healer/tanks. Theres seems to be more stam dps necromancers than are necromancer tanks, so much for that class identity ZO$ advocates for. A term not defined but misused by the developers.
The ability of changeing into another whatever creature is not necromancy it is illusion spells or it is a lich, Eso necromancer is a living mortal who controls the dead for a short time.
Hmm...
Seems I was even more on the mark than I thought when I mentioned pre-built characters. Instead of opening up to the idea of class identity encompassing more than where they fit on the trinity, you doubled down and started dictating what gear they can use. You just can't seem to get it through your head that role and class are different things."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."0 -
Kagukan✭✭✭✭✭
✭Everyone performs every role. That is what they said they want. You get 20k burst damage, I get 20 k burst damage. What makes use different? You get fire and I get lightning. Just dumb and silly!
The result of this everyone performs every role foolishness is nerfs to many skills and buffs to some.
Every class can perform any role is not class identity, it is player identity. We can pick any role we want except you get fire and I get lightning.0