Merge Under-50 & noCP Vet Campaigns?

Enkil

The game can no longer support so many campaigns populations wise. Playing on all but the CP pop locked campaign is mostly PvDoor at all hours and increasingly so in prime time lately on both. Please merge the two.

Also, Under-50 is even more unwelcoming for newer players because a good portion of those that play there are veteran players that have "twink" gear, gold weapon and annihilate new players mercilessly; more likely turning them off to PvP entirely than they might find on no-Cp campaign.

(edit: sorry can't change options with editing, but second means "No, Don't" and third would have been "Other - please comment")

Qbiken

Merge them

As long as battlescaling is removed from pvp

Thraben

No, Don

On EU, Sotha Sil is one of the servers with the strongest groups - real beginners would be mercilessly farmed.

The true problem are the jerks who have been playing on the Noob server for 4+ years. Maybe it´s time for an account wide AP counter, and when you have reached a certain AP mark, say, 30 million, you can´t quieu for that server any longer.

VaranisArano

The problem with merging the two is that while Below 50 has to deal with experienced players on alts, throwing new players into the No CP Campaign means facing off against a lot of level 50 players with CP 160 gear sets, which is even worse.

MajBludd

I say yes and I'd even go as far to say as it should only be 2 servers, cp and no cp.

Under 50 is mostly experienced pvpr's anymore. So, the new ones coming into pvp will actually have a better chance in vet. That and under 50 probably has the lowest pop out of any server.

Whenever I run across a new player in under 50, and if they ask, I recommend they skip it and go straight to vet.

idk

No, Don

So OP is suggesting closing the under 50 campaign as that is the actual effect.

gabriebe

Havent been in under 50 in some time, last time I was in there was maybe 3-4 weeks after Elsweyr to emp my necro tank and the place was pretty dead. Once we got some action going and it was clear that our group would take the map in primetime, the action died. Had to wait until the next day to see a massive zerg showed up all of a sudden, and the few of us around weren't really prepared for it.

I'm not really surprised the campaign is this dead. The AD morning cap that has been going there for over a year and a half has probably accelerated the decline.

MajBludd

@gabriebe its as if people didnt tell many of them this would happen if you roll the map with a full raid+ against 5 or less on dc or ep. Though, I have noticed they take turns pvdooring the map.

It's in such a sad state and is an indicator of where pvp is going.

Enkil

Merge them

MajBludd wrote: »

I say yes and I'd even go as far to say as it should only be 2 servers, cp and no cp.

Under 50 is mostly experienced pvpr's anymore. So, the new ones coming into pvp will actually have a better chance in vet. That and under 50 probably has the lowest pop out of any server.

Whenever I run across a new player in under 50, and if they ask, I recommend they skip it and go straight to vet.

If you play under 50 for any amount of time, you realize this. The No-CP campaign is definitely more friendly to newer players than under-50.

idk

No, Don

Enkil wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

I say yes and I'd even go as far to say as it should only be 2 servers, cp and no cp.

Under 50 is mostly experienced pvpr's anymore. So, the new ones coming into pvp will actually have a better chance in vet. That and under 50 probably has the lowest pop out of any server.

Whenever I run across a new player in under 50, and if they ask, I recommend they skip it and go straight to vet.

If you play under 50 for any amount of time, you realize this. The No-CP campaign is definitely more friendly to newer players than under-50.

It is great that this is your opinion on the matter and it is your choice with what campaign you will go to but this is really just an opinion. We do not need to take that choice away from others because it suits your interests.

Enkil

Merge them

This is forum where we post opinions. Thanks for pointing out the abundantly obvious. What was your point?

Morgul667

No, Don

Hell no

Go mess your own gameplay

Morgul667

No, Don

Enkil wrote: »

This is forum where we post opinions. Thanks for pointing out the abundantly obvious. What was your point?

Pc eu non cp is great campaign and lots of people enjoy it

You not enjoying it, is absolutely no reason to mess with other s people fun

idk

No, Don

Enkil wrote: »

This is forum where we post opinions. Thanks for pointing out the abundantly obvious. What was your point?

I am fully aware that people post opinions here but sometimes they post their opinions as though it is or they think it should be everyone's opinion which seemed to be the case with the comment I quoted and replied to.

As for the OP message in this thread, the game has always had many more campaigns than it could reasonably populate yet there have been people all along that prefer those campaigns. So really not much has changed except we really only fill one campaign and even then it is a much smaller pop cap than when we could fill multiple campaigns.

So in reality, your idea merely reduces choice. BTW, most major MMORPGs with a PvE focus that have PvP have lowbie PvP. It is that way for a reason and as such it very much makes sense that the core PvP of this game keep a lowbie campaign.

Rungar

if you want new players to have some form of sanctuary where they can play free of being mowed down its not no cp or under 50 that will fix that. You need a no animation cancelling for dps ruleset.

that will keep the vets out so people can play and not be run off.

VaranisArano

Rungar wrote: »

if you want new players to have some form of sanctuary where they can play free of being mowed down its not no cp or under 50 that will fix that. You need a no animation cancelling for dps ruleset.

that will keep the vets out so people can play and not be run off.

No animation canceling is not actually going to create a No-Vet Player environment. For one, high latency Vet players might well find it even easier to fight on that campaign. Worse, it's going to leave new players unprepared for the fluidity and reactivity of combat in the No CP and CP PVP campaigns. That sounds to me like you've got a gripe about animation canceling.

To actually create a No-Vet Player environment, you need to measure the markers of actual veteran players. For example, ZOS could change the Below 50 campaign rules to set an account-wide upper limit of cumulative Alliance points which inculdes AP earned by deleted characters, or set a limit on how many alts a single account can use in that campaign over time to prevent Vets from deleting alts and starting over below the level limit forever.

The above would work...if ZOS' intent was to create a true newbie campaign. Instead, ZOS seems pretty happy to have a simple "Below 50" option, including for experienced players. In Cyrodiil, perhaps the intention was for experienced players to teach less experienced players, but that goes out the window in Battlegrounds where brand new players face off against Vets of all levels.

idk

No, Don

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

if you want new players to have some form of sanctuary where they can play free of being mowed down its not no cp or under 50 that will fix that. You need a no animation cancelling for dps ruleset.

that will keep the vets out so people can play and not be run off.

No animation canceling is not actually going to create a No-Vet Player environment. For one, high latency Vet players might well find it even easier to fight on that campaign. Worse, it's going to leave new players unprepared for the fluidity and reactivity of combat in the No CP and CP PVP campaigns. That sounds to me like you've got a gripe about animation canceling.

To actually create a No-Vet Player environment, you need to measure the markers of actual veteran players. For example, ZOS could change the Below 50 campaign rules to set an account-wide upper limit of cumulative Alliance points which inculdes AP earned by deleted characters, or set a limit on how many alts a single account can use in that campaign over time to prevent Vets from deleting alts and starting over below the level limit forever.

The above would work...if ZOS' intent was to create a true newbie campaign. Instead, ZOS seems pretty happy to have a simple "Below 50" option, including for experienced players. In Cyrodiil, perhaps the intention was for experienced players to teach less experienced players, but that goes out the window in Battlegrounds where brand new players face off against Vets of all levels.

I agree on your first point. Zos has stated they do not want skills to behave differently in PvE vs PvP. This would actually be worse as Zos would have to reduce their ability to block, dodge, and bash to interupt which woudl leave them poorly prepared for the rest of the game. That is not even getting into the work Zos would need to do to make this happens. It is not a simple task to rework the combat design like this.

As for rest, I do not think it is a great idea for Zos to tell players you cannot do certain things that other players can do becaues you have been playing the game for to long. It would also seem it would reduce the number of players even further. Zos chose to form these various niche campaigns to appease differentinterests of small groups.

Overall these niche campaigns have not had a negative effect on the big picture as most campaigns have always been low population since a majority of PvP plaeyrs choose to be in the more populated campaigns to find more PvP.

gameswithaspoon

No, Don

Consider removing the Hammer from below-50. Missing out on that kinda fun might help leech out some of the overachieving veterans.

Squidgaurd

No, Don

Just ban anyone 200 cp plus from lowbie campaign and bg's

idk

No, Don

Squidgaurd wrote: »

Just ban anyone 200 cp plus from lowbie campaign and bg's

Their CP does not affect the lowbie campaign so it is not an issue.

MajBludd

@Squidgaurd I dont think that's the way to go. If they continue to have an under 50 campaign use battle spirit to further lower damage in under 50 instead of increasing your damage.

Less damage means more time to react and learn the mechanics, if they are a new player. Also use battle spirit to scale all gear to green quality.

All these things are pointless as the under 50 camp on pc na is all but dead for a few hrs out of the week. That's the sad realization as to the health of pvp in this game.

Squidgaurd

No, Don

MajBludd wrote: »

@Squidgaurd I dont think that's the way to go. If they continue to have an under 50 campaign use battle spirit to further lower damage in under 50 instead of increasing your damage.

Less damage means more time to react and learn the mechanics, if they are a new player. Also use battle spirit to scale all gear to green quality.

All these things are pointless as the under 50 camp on pc na is all but dead for a few hrs out of the week. That's the sad realization as to the health of pvp in this game.

Im a "FIRM"(VERY FIRM) believer of the you have no buisiness in lowbies if you are late cp200 plus. Its the campaighn meant for new players not twinks and sweaty tryhards that couldnt cut it in veteran pvp so they gold out multiple lowbie sets and twink out their toons so they can continue to farm lowbiesand feel awesome. seriously most lowbies can bearily do general mechanics. To even consider pitting them against vetted out twinks is gg bruddah.

vamp_emily

It is funny how people act like we never got farmed 4-5 years ago. Did we get discourage? Did we stop playing? My first time I got killed in PvP happened so fast I didn't know what hit me. However, I didn't stop playing.

I think the only difference back then ( besides allowing CP in low level PvP ) is we had population. So it was harder to be farmed if you had players helping you. Population gaps is the biggest problem and I think merging the two would be best. However, I wouldn't expect much different results. Don't you think the new player will still be unwelcomed in No CP Vet campaign? There will be a lot more Vet players easily killing the new players.

I don't know about now but back when I played in low level PvP many of the rerollers didn't have CP. They just kept deleting their characters. So restricting players from playing in low level PvP, who have cp, wouldn't stop the farming.

MajBludd

@Squidgaurd so, if I pay for a game and eso plus I'm going to be banned from trying out new builds in under 50?
So you want ppl to go to vet when they are lvl 10 with training gear on and get rolled? (Maybe somebody else wants under geared ppl to roll in vet?)
How would I compete with 2 crafted sets that are of blue quality?
Or what if I played the game for a year before trying pvp? I'm over cp 200 but i have no experience in pvp, should i be penalized and forced into a vet server? Or what if I'm handicapped and dont have the physical ability to compete at vet pvp levels?
So many what ifs to consider and that's why your opinion is just that, an opinion


The only reason I am for under 50 and no cp vet being combined is the population.

I saw a comment earlier that made a lot of sense to me, under 50 is for under 50 players, doesnt matter if you have a cp 810 character as any new character you make will be under 50. If they want a new to pvp server make one just for that and add a no cp stipulation or a 200 cap, etc.

@vamp_emily I still get farmed in there by 4 man gank squads that Xv1. Who does that, who ganks solo players with a 4 man group?

probabkyravi

Merge them

Under 50 EU is like a ghost town compared to its Blackwater Blade glory.

Pop reaches about 15 players at 1 alliance at best, thats if people alliance hop.

Pop is about 20 re-rollers whos names have been on the leaderboards for 3 years. Maybe someone or 2 getting Emperor while grinding a new character and a small handful of new players that didn't realise it was full of strange people in gold gear that like to kill new players. The try-hards here try to choose the Emperors and how long they reign.


Under 50 NA is similar to Blackwater Blade days, they have quite a strong community with 5 or 6 Pick-up-Guilds.

Pop is sporadic there and it feels like the guilds don't want to fight each other.

It has more gold gear re-rollers than EU and more people passing through to veteran, new players suffer as much from try-hards as EU though, maybe more. Guilds think they decide who gets emperor there and it is a quite childish server in its politics.


They should be merged for one reason. New players need a comfortable environment to learn. Mulanmiir like Kyne before is not good for this and many caring PvPers left that server years ago because we like to keep our characters and veteran PvP is more dynamic.

Baalohkdan could usualy do with a bit more population on both NA and EU and players there are more caring to new players.
Smart players already go 30 day 1st after seeing how dead Mulanmiir EU is and thats lucky or they would just get 1 shotted alone everyday. NA's 30 day non-CP is pretty dead, the rerolling pop of their baby PvP would help it a lot if merged.



Protect the seals. Say no to seal clubbers !!!!!!

The_Lex

It wouldn't surprise me that when ZOS is done with class homogenization, campaign homogenization would be next.

probabkyravi

Merge them

Thraben wrote: »

On EU, Sotha Sil is one of the servers with the strongest groups - real beginners would be mercilessly farmed.

The true problem are the jerks who have been playing on the Noob server for 4+ years. Maybe it´s time for an account wide AP counter, and when you have reached a certain AP mark, say, 30 million, you can´t quieu for that server any longer.

LoL, most players are terrible in non-CP 30 day EU including many experienced ones.

Give a new player a blue 5 piece Hundings/Julianos and they would probably destroy you AP farmers that forgot to buy siege again 1v1.

MajBludd

Under 50 is an emp farm server, that's it. I dont see any huge number of new players when I roll through with a new toon. In fact I see less players each time.

Most of the time it's one group jumping back and forth between factions in an attempt to "balance things out". Which I find ironic because they tend to balance by camping the lowest pop faction or factions in under 50's case.

Krec

Squidgaurd wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

@Squidgaurd I dont think that's the way to go. If they continue to have an under 50 campaign use battle spirit to further lower damage in under 50 instead of increasing your damage.

Less damage means more time to react and learn the mechanics, if they are a new player. Also use battle spirit to scale all gear to green quality.

All these things are pointless as the under 50 camp on pc na is all but dead for a few hrs out of the week. That's the sad realization as to the health of pvp in this game.

Im a "FIRM"(VERY FIRM) believer of the you have no buisiness in lowbies if you are late cp200 plus. Its the campaighn meant for new players not twinks and sweaty tryhards that couldnt cut it in veteran pvp so they gold out multiple lowbie sets and twink out their toons so they can continue to farm lowbiesand feel awesome. seriously most lowbies can bearily do general mechanics. To even consider pitting them against vetted out twinks is gg bruddah.

why? why would a cp 200 person want to run anew toon horse with no speed or stam on a vet server? I run several alts through kyne to test skills and rotations and learn the class. am running a new stamplar (lvl 12) with two armor slots empty, a white piece, and the rest green lvl 4-7. Not everyone in low level is twinked. I think the only thing that I have encountered is someone dropping time stops, meteors, and other ultis that they shouldn't really have in low lvl pvp. cp 200 means nothing and is an arbitrary number

Reverb

No, Don

The original under 50 campaign BWB was created well before CP existed, because vet pvp was not inviting or enjoyable for most lowbies or new players.

One of my favorite things about lowbie pvp is the build diversity. We start there with only a few of our class and weapon skills unlocked, and have to hone timing and rotation. It makes battle more dynamic. And I like seeing variety on my death recap. In vet pvp it's the same skills over and over. Its boring.

GhostofDatthaw

Merge them

Lowbie cyro was amazing when people were joining the game. I learned how to pvp in black water blade. Before then I had been in...azure i think it was called at the time. I was just getting roflstomped. I then notice a lowbie campaign, join up, was alot of fun. I get killed by people who are better or the "reroller" but I also found good fights with others who were on my same skill level. You know heavy atttacking at full resources, what's a light attack weave? I found a great guild who helped me, showed me the ropes of PvP and how to fight.

Point is lowbie cyro works when people are actually beginning to play. Problem is this game is not growing in PvP it's dieing a slow painful death. Idk how the new player count is in pve but the performance now scares anyone who thinks about this game for the PvP away